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1. 06:48 AM - FW: Corvair Flitzers (Christian Bobka)
2. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: Blast it questions...... (Richard Navratril)
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"Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>,
"pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Flitzers |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Williams [mailto:flitzer@btopenworld.com]
Subject: Fw: Corvair Flitzers
Hi Matt,
I forgot to include the dimension from the firewall to the propeller for the
Z-21. Because propeller thicknesses can vary, I have revised part of the
email concerning installed lengths on the Z-21 and Z-2 to focus on the
dimension from the firewall front face to the rear face of the propeller
drive plate (on the end of the crankshaft) in both cases.
The relevant passages are in red, to save you reading through all the email
again!
Cheers,
Lynn
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynn Williams
Subject: Corvair Flitzers
> Lynn Please direguard previouse message about resending some email.
>
> You seem to hae conflicting words between your notes on the corvair
> reguarding the CG of the corvair. How far would a the bcak of a VW
> propeller be from the S-2 Fire wall?
Hi Matt,
The reason that I am a bit vague about the Corvair installation (for the
Z-2, note the aeroplanes are known as Z-types, from Zeppelin Werfthalle,
Staaken bei Berlin, which are the old airship repair sheds at Staaken,
where, in my novel begins....... the Flitzer D692 is actually the 'star' of
the
first part of my novel set in 1926, and is a Luftschiffparasitgerate or
airship
parasite equipment for extending the reconnaissance range of an
airship/aircraft
combination for an expedition to search for a landmass in the Greenland Sea
for a
trans-Atlantic refuelling base for LuftpostSeeflugzeuge, but also for a
U-boat
base to control the North Atlantic for a future war......phew!) .. is that I
had not
previously considered the Corvair, as I felt it was too heavy and too long.
Although a variant of the Z-1 Type S Stummelflitzer, the Type R, is intended
for the
Rotec radial (at 220 lbs. weight) the Type R has its lower wing enlarged (to
match the upper)
and moved forward (to reposition the mean CP) thereby increasing spar depth,
and wing area,
to cope with the additional weight of the installation, and maintain the
approximately the same
wing loading and aerobatic reserve factors.
Fitting the longer Corvair to the Z-2 will potentially extend the nose to
the point where the tail volume is compromised, and the whole geometry would
need to be revised. However, if leg room in the forward 'pit were not an
issue, nor the volume for fuel containment within the fuselage tank bay,
then the Corvair would be an ideal motor. It is possibly easier to fit a
Corvair into the Z-1, because there is potential for moving the firewall
further aft, while retaining sufficient room for pedal travel - for shorter
pilots. However, as they are designed, the Flitzer family (most of them
anyway - except possibly the smaller Goblin and Meteor) will accommodate a
6'6" pilot comfortably - which is not something achievable with many very
small biplanes!
To maintain this feature and fit a Corvair into an unmodified Flitzer type
is a tall order. However, if personal requirements allow, then any Flitzer
variant could, in principle, be adapted to handle a longer crankcase and
weight installation combination, even if, for example, the upper wing were
moved forward slightly more on a raked cabane assembly. But for the basic
types, there is enough variation and design work involved in just proving
and certificating the present plethora of Z-types, in their quite disparate
available versions!
Finally, on this, note that the Goblin differs from the other Flitzers in
several respects, being perhaps the greatest simplification of the entire
range from several aspects - one of which is the elimination of the standard
engine mount, and a reversion to the simple 'stand-off' system of four,
individual, short steel-tubes with big washer-flange weldments at their
ends, extending from vertical beech or DF struts built into the reinforced
firewall bulkhead, as on the Taylor Monoplane, etc.
Conceivably this might be a method by which, in combination with a slight
rearward movement of the firewall, the Corvair could be installed without it
generating too many pound/inches forward of the CG.
However, the thought of cantilevering the longer, heavier Corvair off the
centroid of the bulkhead, without the benefit of a steel spider-truss
attached near the longerons, (which is the convention) leaves me in a cold
sweat! Especially if aerobatics were to be contemplated. Perhaps Gary could
answer this?
The dimension from the rear of the propeller drive plate to the front face
of the firewall on the Z-2 is actually 23" and without having seen a
Corvair, perhaps it would be possible after all to install this motor on a
shortened tubular mount, with just an inch or two stolen by moving the
firewall aft(?). The VW installed length, for comparison, is 20.5".
Regarding the wing rib chords for the Z-2: these are 42" top and bottom, the
early version used a 39" chord lower wing, but area has been maximised in
the final drawings. The wing panels for the Z-2 are yet to be drawn, so I
haven't optimised the spar sizing yet nor decided whether the upper rear
spars need to be 'full profile depth', (although the panels are otherwise
identical). They probably will be, full depth because this is just as
convenient when there are four ailerons involved.
Although the prototype Flitzer Z-1 is equipped with two SR4 magnetos, the
two Z-21As currently flying have the Leburg electronic ignition system,
which has proved 100% reliable, and takes some of the lottery aspect out of
hot-starting. Lastly, looking at the longer Praga-engined Stummelflitzer
nose, it might be possible to install a Corvair in a virtually unmodified
Z-1 Type S, or even better into the Type R with the bigger lower wing, and
have a superbly-performing aerobatic single seater, with its four balanced
ailerons and high RFs.
Best regards,
Lynn
attery?
>
> Matt
>
---
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Blast it questions...... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I have heard Soda Bicarb beads refered to as "green" sand. I have seen ads
for Soda Blasting in the papers for old car restoration. Yes it is
considerably less dangerous healthwise but also beware of going to the beach
on a windy day. Free silica is present in all sand and taking proper
precautions will take the risk We sand blast swimming pools for
repainting. When working indoors we cover the pool with poly and install
ducting fans for intake and exhaust air and anyone in the work area is in
protective gear with fresh filtered air in helmet.
I dont think using a small blasting cabinet poses any real risk as long as
you vacuum as earlier discussed, or let the dust settle before opening.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "clif" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: Blast it questions......
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
>
> Does anyone know about " green sand "?
> I haven't used it but I've been told that
> there is considerably less danger of
> lung damage if the dust is inhaled. After
> all, accidents can and do happen no
> matter how well you protect yourself.
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril"
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
> >
> > You could also try a larger swimming pool dealer. I carry Red Flint
> Granite
> > sand in my shop.(.45-.55 mm) It is rather aggresive but doesn't dust
> nearly
> > as much as white silica sands. It really depends on the nozzel you are
> > using.
> >
>
Dick=======================================================================
> >
> >
>
>
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