---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/07/03: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:45 AM - Re: Details, details (Jack Phillips) 2. 05:35 AM - front 'pit instruments (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 09:36 AM - Re:Details, details (catdesigns@juno.com) 4. 12:09 PM - Re: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? (Graham Hansen) 5. 12:47 PM - Re: How many of you have instruments in the front (The Huizenga's) 6. 03:54 PM - Re: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? (Jack Phillips) 7. 04:14 PM - Vane type asi (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 8. 05:16 PM - Re: How many of you have instruments in the fronthole? (Graham Hansen) 9. 06:50 PM - Re: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? (Alex Sloan) 10. 07:41 PM - Re: Re:Details, details (Ted Brousseau) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:13 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Details, details --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Ted, I made a set of bow frames of laminated spruce to support the panels and the cockpit coaming. Very rigid, strong and light. I used 1/16" thick strips of spruce 3/4" wideand laminated them to a total thickness of about 1/2" with resorcinol while clamped in a jig. You can stand on them without breaking them and they weigh a couple of ounces apiece. Jack --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" I was wondering how those of you who put the about 1 inch wide curved stiffener on the panels on top of the fuselage (did I describe that correctly?) did it? It looks from the pics that the stiffener is attached to the back of the panel but it looks so perfectly round. I don't think I could get it that nicely aligned while the glue dried without a hint as how it is done. Jigs? Thanks, Ted ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:36 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: front 'pit instruments --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" I wondered about a few basic instruments up front myself, not from the standpoint of giving passengers something to look at but more from the standpoint of being able to take flying buddies up and check them out in the plane. They could fly it from the front and do decently, but to get realistic Piet PIC time you'd need to let them fly it from the main hole. As the owner/check pilot, I could ride in front and still have the essentials at hand. (After all, haven't J-3 flyers done it this way for eons?) The other item that I don't see duplicated in front 'pits is carb heat, and the lack of that particular item is what sent William Wynne's Piet into the hardpan. William was in the front 'pit with no access to the carb heat but knowing it was needed, and the suspected carb ice/loss of power was what brought on the stall/spin. It seems very simple to add dual carb heat just like dual throttles. So how much weight are we adding? An airspeed indicator, altimeter, compass, slip/skid ball, and carb heat control. Couple of pounds, tops? and pretty much right on the CG anyway. Hmmm... maybe I'll go play with the online panel planner a little bit ;o) Which, BTW, I drew up the rear Piet panel in CAD and am sending it to them to add to their library. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:55 AM PST US Subject: Re:Pietenpol-List: Details, details From: catdesigns@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: catdesigns@juno.com Ted, Here is how I laminated my bows. I cut out 2 curved piece of inch plywood to match the curve of the FRONT instrument panel. I glued these together to make the form 1 inch wide. I then drilled 1 holes about 1 inch in from the curve face spaced about 3 inches apart. Then I put clear packing tape along the top of the curve. This is to keep the glue from sticking to the form. Next I cut 1/8th inch thick spruce strips soaked them in water and bent them around the form. Then I clamped them in place using a sacrificial strip on top to keep the clamps from damaging the bow. I let this dry over night. Then I put glue on 3 of the 4 of the strips making sure not to get glue between the sacrificial strip and the top strip. I then re-clamped all this to the form. You need about 3 hands for all this as the whole thing gets quite slippery. Next day take them of the forms sand to final dimensions. I cut my strips long and wide then planed to final thickness and trimmed the ends to fit. I used the same form for all the bows. I had to pull in the bow a little for the rear instrument panel but it was not enough to throw off the curve. Hope this helps Chris Sacramento, CA. ---------- "Ted Brousseau" writes: From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Details, details --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" I was wondering how those of you who put the about 1 inch wide curved stiffener on the panels on top of the fuselage (did I describe that correctly?) did it? It looks from the pics that the stiffener is attached to the back of the panel but it looks so perfectly round. I don't think I could get it that nicely aligned while the glue dried without a hint as how it is done. Jigs? Thanks, Ted ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:15 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" Alex, I removed the vane type ASI to install it on my Sperry Messenger biplane reproduction. It's still on the Sperry. Graham DO NOT ARCHIVE. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:53 PM PST US From: "The Huizenga's" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Huizenga's" Graham, Did you buy or build your vane ASI? Kirk >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" > >Alex, > >I removed the vane type ASI to install it on my Sperry Messenger >biplane reproduction. It's still on the Sperry. > >Graham DO NOT ARCHIVE. > > -- Kirk Huizenga and Bryan Eastep's Aircamper and Corvair Project http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:36 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Hi Walt, I've got some instrumentation in the front 'pit: an airspeed indicator, an altimeter, a nonworking Turn & Bank (the ball works - that's all I was interested in. I removed the heavy gyro and glued the needle centered), and a compass. Mostly because I thought it looked better than a blank sheet of plywood, but it does give back-ups to the rear instruments (who needs instruments in a Piet anyway?). It also gives my wife something to look at, and if I need her to hold a compass heading for a while, she can do it. I like the idea of a carb heat control reachable from the front cockpit, but it's too late for that on mine. It could be done with a throttle quadrant like the old Champs used to have. I don't have brakes in the front cockpit either, just in the rear. Jack --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" My winter project was going to be putting a compass( which I already have), airspeed and altimeter in the front hole. But I'm torn both ways. Do the people you take for rides get a kick out of , or really use, the instruments? If the plane is used for your BFR, should you have these in? Do you HAVE to have them in? Either way I'll put in the compass. Guess what I asking, is for the guys that have been flying the Piet for years, Do you have them, or would you consider them completely useless. thanks walt NX140DL (north N.J.) ps maybe best to put my money into ping-pong balls ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:54 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vane type asi --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Kirk: A while back Kerri Price was selling a vane type asi kit. It is scaled down 50% of the old Pioneer asi you would have seen on Travelairs, Waco's etc. Really cute. Perfect size for a Piet. I bought one. I don't remember what I gave for it 4 years ago. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:02 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many of you have instruments in the fronthole? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" Kirk, I made the vane type ASI using a DeHavilland unit from a Tiger Moth as a pattern. I then put temporary marks along its scale(no numbers yet) and went flying in the Pietenpol. I noted where the pointer was with reference the ASI in the cockpit at different airspeeds and applied the numbers along the scale with a felt marker. While somewhat crude, it worked very well. Later, when I installed it on the Sperry, it agreed almost exactly with the ASI on the instrument panel! Possibly one could calibrate the device by holding it out from a car window while driving on a windless day, but I never tried this method. Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I tried several sizes of vane in order to get full (or nearly so) travel of the pointer over the scale. This is easier than try- ing different springs. Graham (CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:52 PM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Graham, Could one see a picture of the Messenger biplane? Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many of you have instruments in the front hole? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" > > Alex, > > I removed the vane type ASI to install it on my Sperry Messenger > biplane reproduction. It's still on the Sperry. > > Graham DO NOT ARCHIVE. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:52 PM PST US From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Re: Re:Pietenpol-List: Details, details --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Thanks Jack and Chris. I was fixated on trying to build them in place. Building them on a jig and then gluing them on the panels is obviously the way to go. Thanks for the detailed instructions. This group is GREAT!! Ted Expecting to freeze tonight in South Florida. Definitely a time to be building and not flying a Piet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re:Pietenpol-List: Details, details > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: catdesigns@juno.com > > Ted, > > Here is how I laminated my bows. I cut out 2 curved piece of inch plywood to match the curve of the FRONT instrument panel. I glued these together to make the form 1 inch wide. I then drilled 1 holes about 1 inch in from the curve face spaced about 3 inches apart. Then I put clear packing tape along the top of the curve. This is to keep the glue from sticking to the form. Next I cut 1/8th inch thick spruce strips soaked them in water and bent them around the form. Then I clamped them in place using a sacrificial strip on top to keep the clamps from damaging the bow. I let this dry over night. Then I put glue on 3 of the 4 of the strips making sure not to get glue between the sacrificial strip and the top strip. I then re-clamped all this to the form. You need about 3 hands for all this as the whole thing gets quite slippery. Next day take them of the forms sand to final dimensions. I cut my strips long and wide then planed to final thickness and trimmed the ends! > to fit. I used the same form for all the bows. I had to pull in the bow a little for the rear instrument panel but it was not enough to throw off the curve. > > Hope this helps > > Chris > Sacramento, CA. > > > ---------- "Ted Brousseau" writes: > > From: "Ted Brousseau" > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Details, details > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:46:05 -0500 > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" > > I was wondering how those of you who put the about 1 inch wide curved > stiffener on the panels on top of the fuselage (did I describe that > correctly?) did it? > > It looks from the pics that the stiffener is attached to the back of the > panel but it looks so perfectly round. I don't think I could get it that > nicely aligned while the glue dried without a hint as how it is done. Jigs? > > Thanks, Ted > >