---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/10/03: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:02 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Cy Galley) 2. 08:31 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Isablcorky@aol.com) 3. 09:43 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Rcaprd@aol.com) 4. 10:05 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Rcaprd@aol.com) 5. 10:41 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Les Schubert) 6. 10:54 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Les Schubert) 7. 11:08 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Christian Bobka) 8. 11:10 AM - Re: Continental 65 (Christian Bobka) 9. 11:19 AM - Alamo City Corvair College update (Oscar Zuniga) 10. 01:40 PM - Re: Continental 65 (Cy Galley) 11. 04:38 PM - Re: Alamo City Corvair College update (Kip & Beth Gardner) 12. 04:51 PM - Wicker seats (ADonJr@aol.com) 13. 10:01 PM - Rib Diagonal (Richard Schreiber) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:29 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Did you check the cam for the REQUIRED 0.001 lobe taper from side to side? It is necessary to make the lifters rotate. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com We support Aeroncas ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > Some good advise on the Continental overhaul from Mike, Walt, and like > Gene said it is a silk thread. The thread doesn't come in the gasket kit, so > I'll check the local sewing store...I wonder what they'll think when I tell > 'em what I'm using it for. > I'm deep in the overhaul process now. I have a Continental A75 engine, > and I've learned the major difference is that the A75 has holes drilled in > the rods in a location so when it is at the bottom of the stroke, it squirts > a shot of oil up under the adjacent piston, for extra cooling. This allows > for a higher R.P.M. and thus more power, accomplished with less pitch on the > prop. The A65 is rated at 2300 R.P.M., and the A75 is rated at 2600 R.P.M. > When I mic the crank, I recorded my readings on like a spread sheet. I > checked four locations on each journel, and eight locations on the front main > journel. On each journel I checked the forward portion, aft portion, and > perpindicular to each of these locations. This allows you to spot a tapered > worn journel, and an oval worn journel. I found that I have a crank that is > in standard spec. My cam was good too. I checked the valve lift before I > disassembled the engine, and they were all within .001 to .002 of each other, > and the bearing journel was in spec. > The two areas where I've gotta spend lots of money, is the ignition > system, and the cylinders. My cylinders were worn past the limits, so I sent > them off to Aircraft Cylinders of America, in Tulsa OK, for chrome. This is > the only type work they do. Bore, chrome, then regrind the chrome back to > original specs, to use std. pistons. It's an approved process, and they give > a yellow tag with the cylinders (FAA airworthy part). The advantages are I > can salvage the cylinders, chrome doesn't rust from prolonged storage, and > it's hard enough to outlast 3 or 4 sets of rings. The first four I sent to > them had rust pits in two of the cylinders, that were too deep for the > process to be acceptable. I sent four more cylinders, found two more good > ones, and now they have two done, two to go. They use Brown Aviation to do > the head / valve work, so that's where my cylinders are going next. I > haven't got them back yet, so I don't know the total bill, but it should be > less than $1000. That's a lot less than $800 ea. for new ones. > I bought the Slick Mag Kit #4334, which includes two mags with impulse > couplings, gears, shielded ignition leads, and Autolite shielded plugs. > Slick offers $150 rebate for your old mags, no matter the make...then they > crush 'em !! Sheds a whole new lite on eliminating the competition ! With > the rebate, it was just over $1000. > > Chuck Gantzer > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:56 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Chuck, Would you mind giving me an address/ phone on the Slick Mag package you spoke of. Thanks Corky in La The fun is in the building, most any jughead can fly em ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:26 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/03 8:03:17 AM Central Standard Time, cgalley@qcbc.org writes: << Did you check the cam for the REQUIRED 0.001 lobe taper from side to side? It is necessary to make the lifters rotate. >> No, I did not. I'll check it today. There were two lifters that were not rotating, as shown by the slight line worn across the bottom of the lifter. One had a bit of corrosion, or a burr in the bore of the lifter hole, and that's what I determined was the cause. I planned on cleaning up the lifter bore, with some fine emory cloth, and just swap 'em out for two others I have from another engine. Cy, what can I do if I do not have that .001 taper ? Chuck Gantzer ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:03 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/03 10:32:48 AM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky@aol.com writes: << Would you mind giving me an address/ phone on the Slick Mag package you spoke of. >> I bought the Slick Mag Kit #K4334-40 at : Airparts Company Inc. 1991 Airport Road P.O. Box 12370 Wichita, KS 67277 (800) 333-4221 email - airparts-wi@juno.com Terry A. Gardner - Branch Manager They are a Unison dealer & Continental Dealer Unison Industries is the distributor for Slick Mags. Their number is 1-815-965-4700 They only sell through their dealers, and could let ya know the nearst one to you. The guy I got alot of info from that works there is Adam Moler, his desk is 1-904-739-4068 Chuck Gantzer - pulled the ol' Model A off the airframe a couple of days ago, when it was 70 !! I had almost 27 hrs flight time on it, with only two deadstick landings ! (47 hrs tt) Finishing up the engine mount & 6 gal fiberglass fuel tank, in the nose. Prop & cowling is next. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:15 AM PST US From: Les Schubert Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert I am curious as to how much some of these A65 continental overhauls have cost I am just getting started on a Piet project and am trying to figure what the engine is going to cost to get it right. I assume that the guys who have done these overhauls recently can give the rest of a idea of the cost. Chuck and the rest of you: one thing about the hard chrome cylinders you should know. Hard Chrome is porous and provides NO additional corrosion protection. The fact is in some circumstances it is worse for corrosion resistance. So keep your cylinders oiled and if you are storing in a humid climate (relative humidity over 50% average) then take special fogging precautions over the winter. For those of us who live in a arid climate we don't generally have this problem. Les form sunny dry Alberta At 08:03 AM 10/01/2003 -0600, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > >Did you check the cam for the REQUIRED 0.001 lobe taper from side to side? >It is necessary to make the lifters rotate. > >Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club >Newsletter Editor & EAA TC >www.bellanca-championclub.com >We support Aeroncas > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > > > Some good advise on the Continental overhaul from Mike, Walt, and like > > Gene said it is a silk thread. The thread doesn't come in the gasket kit, >so > > I'll check the local sewing store...I wonder what they'll think when I >tell > > 'em what I'm using it for. > > I'm deep in the overhaul process now. I have a Continental A75 >engine, > > and I've learned the major difference is that the A75 has holes drilled in > > the rods in a location so when it is at the bottom of the stroke, it >squirts > > a shot of oil up under the adjacent piston, for extra cooling. This >allows > > for a higher R.P.M. and thus more power, accomplished with less pitch on >the > > prop. The A65 is rated at 2300 R.P.M., and the A75 is rated at 2600 >R.P.M. > > When I mic the crank, I recorded my readings on like a spread sheet. >I > > checked four locations on each journel, and eight locations on the front >main > > journel. On each journel I checked the forward portion, aft portion, and > > perpindicular to each of these locations. This allows you to spot a >tapered > > worn journel, and an oval worn journel. I found that I have a crank that >is > > in standard spec. My cam was good too. I checked the valve lift before I > > disassembled the engine, and they were all within .001 to .002 of each >other, > > and the bearing journel was in spec. > > The two areas where I've gotta spend lots of money, is the ignition > > system, and the cylinders. My cylinders were worn past the limits, so I >sent > > them off to Aircraft Cylinders of America, in Tulsa OK, for chrome. This >is > > the only type work they do. Bore, chrome, then regrind the chrome back to > > original specs, to use std. pistons. It's an approved process, and they >give > > a yellow tag with the cylinders (FAA airworthy part). The advantages are >I > > can salvage the cylinders, chrome doesn't rust from prolonged storage, and > > it's hard enough to outlast 3 or 4 sets of rings. The first four I sent >to > > them had rust pits in two of the cylinders, that were too deep for the > > process to be acceptable. I sent four more cylinders, found two more good > > ones, and now they have two done, two to go. They use Brown Aviation to >do > > the head / valve work, so that's where my cylinders are going next. I > > haven't got them back yet, so I don't know the total bill, but it should >be > > less than $1000. That's a lot less than $800 ea. for new ones. > > I bought the Slick Mag Kit #4334, which includes two mags with impulse > > couplings, gears, shielded ignition leads, and Autolite shielded plugs. > > Slick offers $150 rebate for your old mags, no matter the make...then they > > crush 'em !! Sheds a whole new lite on eliminating the competition ! >With > > the rebate, it was just over $1000. > > > > Chuck Gantzer > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:20 AM PST US From: Les Schubert Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert If the cam doesn't have the required taper on the lobes the only solution I know of is to regrind the cam or replace it. You might try temporarily reassembling the crankcase after you clean the lifter bores and drop the lifters in the holes and turn the cam shaft over by hand and see if the lifters all rotate like they are supposed to. You would have to have the lifters pointing up to get enough drag on the cam to have them rotate and lube them with a very light oil like ATF so there is not to much drag in the lifter bore. If I understand correctly you are removing the model A engine. How much do you want for it complete with the accesories? Thx Les At 01:04 PM 10/01/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/10/03 10:32:48 AM Central Standard Time, >Isablcorky@aol.com writes: > ><< Would you mind giving me an address/ phone on the Slick Mag package you >spoke > of. >> > >I bought the Slick Mag Kit #K4334-40 at : >Airparts Company Inc. >1991 Airport Road >P.O. Box 12370 >Wichita, KS 67277 >(800) 333-4221 >email - airparts-wi@juno.com >Terry A. Gardner - Branch Manager >They are a Unison dealer & Continental Dealer > >Unison Industries is the distributor for Slick Mags. >Their number is 1-815-965-4700 They only sell through their dealers, >and could let ya know the nearst one to you. The guy I got alot of info >from that works there is Adam Moler, his desk is 1-904-739-4068 > >Chuck Gantzer - pulled the ol' Model A off the airframe a couple of days ago, >when it was 70 !! I had almost 27 hrs flight time on it, with only two >deadstick landings ! (47 hrs tt) Finishing up the engine mount & 6 gal >fiberglass fuel tank, in the nose. Prop & cowling is next. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:39 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" I would get the cam reground and also have the lifters reground. Do this before you size your pushrods as the reground cam will normally increase the deflated lifter clearance and you might wind up needing a few longer pushrods. Also, swapping pushrods from one place to another might correct clearance issues as it is hard to tell the difference between pushrods by eye. Aircraft Specialties in Tulsa does the cam/lifter regrinding. This regrinding is really inportant because the lifter to cam contact is the only place besides the rings that you have hard metal to hard metal contact. Any metal that wears off here will be in your oil, eventually recirculating through and embedding itself into the main or rod bearing soft metal. They then will act as little lathe ctuting bits that will turn down your crank until it is no good no more. Chris -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/03 8:03:17 AM Central Standard Time, cgalley@qcbc.org writes: << Did you check the cam for the REQUIRED 0.001 lobe taper from side to side? It is necessary to make the lifters rotate. >> No, I did not. I'll check it today. There were two lifters that were not rotating, as shown by the slight line worn across the bottom of the lifter. One had a bit of corrosion, or a burr in the bore of the lifter hole, and that's what I determined was the cause. I planned on cleaning up the lifter bore, with some fine emory cloth, and just swap 'em out for two others I have from another engine. Cy, what can I do if I do not have that .001 taper ? Chuck Gantzer ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:31 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" If he has the grooves on the lifter surface, he has proof enough that they are not rotating. Chris Bobka -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Schubert Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert If the cam doesn't have the required taper on the lobes the only solution I know of is to regrind the cam or replace it. You might try temporarily reassembling the crankcase after you clean the lifter bores and drop the lifters in the holes and turn the cam shaft over by hand and see if the lifters all rotate like they are supposed to. You would have to have the lifters pointing up to get enough drag on the cam to have them rotate and lube them with a very light oil like ATF so there is not to much drag in the lifter bore. If I understand correctly you are removing the model A engine. How much do you want for it complete with the accesories? Thx Les At 01:04 PM 10/01/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/10/03 10:32:48 AM Central Standard Time, >Isablcorky@aol.com writes: > ><< Would you mind giving me an address/ phone on the Slick Mag package you >spoke > of. >> > >I bought the Slick Mag Kit #K4334-40 at : >Airparts Company Inc. >1991 Airport Road >P.O. Box 12370 >Wichita, KS 67277 >(800) 333-4221 >email - airparts-wi@juno.com >Terry A. Gardner - Branch Manager >They are a Unison dealer & Continental Dealer > >Unison Industries is the distributor for Slick Mags. >Their number is 1-815-965-4700 They only sell through their dealers, >and could let ya know the nearst one to you. The guy I got alot of info >from that works there is Adam Moler, his desk is 1-904-739-4068 > >Chuck Gantzer - pulled the ol' Model A off the airframe a couple of days ago, >when it was 70 !! I had almost 27 hrs flight time on it, with only two >deadstick landings ! (47 hrs tt) Finishing up the engine mount & 6 gal >fiberglass fuel tank, in the nose. Prop & cowling is next. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:34 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alamo City Corvair College update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Hello, folks; For those who are planning to attend the College next weekend, Jan. 18, I've posted detailed directions and info on area motels, at http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/AlamoDirections.html so you can print the page out and get hopelessly lost ;o) Tomorrow, Jan. 11, the attendees at the EAA Chapter 35 monthly meeting will get a little intro to the Corvair conversion, call it "Corvair 101", where I'll have William's manual available and my engine all laid out in pieces for examination and will give the evening program on a broad overview of the conversion process. Any and all are welcome... 5:30 PM at the Chapter clubhouse at San Geronimo Airpark... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:15 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" There must be a slight crown on the lifter body face as well. Since it isn't a certified engine, just a slight honing with a stone can produce the desired taper. However the A-series manual says that the lobs can be lightly stoned. The C-series manual says to replace the cam shaft. It also states that the taper is necessary to rotate the lifters. If they don't then a line is worn into the face of the lifter. They can be salvaged by make casting an shaped hose block out of epoxy and micro-balloons and using valve grinding compound to reshape the lifter face. The fact that it is tapered is on page 60 of my c-series manual but the engines and many of the parts like the cam are the same for the A-series. They also have to work the same. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental 65 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/10/03 8:03:17 AM Central Standard Time, cgalley@qcbc.org > writes: > > << Did you check the cam for the REQUIRED 0.001 lobe taper from side to side? > It is necessary to make the lifters rotate. >> > > No, I did not. I'll check it today. There were two lifters that were not > rotating, as shown by the slight line worn across the bottom of the lifter. > One had a bit of corrosion, or a burr in the bore of the lifter hole, and > that's what I determined was the cause. I planned on cleaning up the lifter > bore, with some fine emory cloth, and just swap 'em out for two others I have > from another engine. > Cy, what can I do if I do not have that .001 taper ? > > Chuck Gantzer > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:26 PM PST US From: Kip & Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alamo City Corvair College update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner At 2:18 PM -0500 01/10/03, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > >Hello, folks; > >For those who are planning to attend the College next weekend, Jan. 18, I've >posted detailed directions and info on area motels, at >http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/AlamoDirections.html so you can >print the page out and get hopelessly lost ;o) > >Tomorrow, Jan. 11, the attendees at the EAA Chapter 35 monthly meeting will >get a little intro to the Corvair conversion, call it "Corvair 101", where >I'll have William's manual available and my engine all laid out in pieces >for examination and will give the evening program on a broad overview of the >conversion process. Any and all are welcome... 5:30 PM at the Chapter >clubhouse at San Geronimo Airpark... > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Oscar, Sure wish I could find the time to get away to your event. Sounds like a lot of fun & I could sure use the sunshine! (We've had 2, count 'em 2, sunny days in NE Ohio since before Christmas). Please give my regards to William (We visited him at his shop over the Xmas holiday in 2000 & he was very helpful in reassuring my wife that I was not out of my mind for wanting to build an airplane & put a CORVAIR engine in it!). Cheers! Kip Gardner (Up in Gray, Cold & Snowy OH) Do Not Archive North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:18 PM PST US From: ADonJr@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wicker seats --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ADonJr@aol.com Hello, Group! I'd like to consider wicker seats in my Piet, but cannot find anyone who makes them. Does anyone know of anyone that does this sort of work? Thanks for your help. Don Cooley ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:33 PM PST US From: Richard Schreiber Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Diagonal --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Schreiber Received my plans set from Don Pietenpol as a Christmas present from my wife, and have placed my first wood order with Aircraft Spruce. I plan on starting with the wing ribs. I have one question about the extra diagonal brace at the rear of the outboard ribs. The plans show this extra brace crossing the existing brace. Is this brace in two pieces above and below the last diagonal brace? If so does it get plywood gussets for strength. Thanks, Rick