---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/15/03: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:33 AM - Azusa drum brakes (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 08:48 AM - New books for Homebuilders (sonja.englert@juno.com) 3. 02:18 PM - Re: Azusa drum brakes (walter evans) 4. 02:48 PM - Re: Azusa drum brakes (Gary Gower) 5. 03:57 PM - Re: Azusa drum brakes (walter evans) 6. 04:30 PM - Re: Azusa drum brakes (Kip & Beth Gardner) 7. 04:36 PM - Re: Azusa drum brakes (Les Schubert) 8. 11:53 PM - Re: Wicker seats (clif) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:12 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Brake-heads; If you're even remotely thinking of using the Azusa drum-type brakes, do yourself a favor and don't consider the 4" ones. They are strictly for ultralight type vehicles. I have a set of them on my Flying Squirrel and can tell you that while they are simple and inexpensive, the drums are very thin material and hard to true up. Also, under hard braking they will deform. Use the next size larger ones (I think they are 5") since the drums are a bit heavier and have enough material that you can turn them carefully to true them up. Better braking power for our size airplanes, too. Much better option is the go-kart mechanical disk, a la Mike Cuy, if you want to go simple and mechanical. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: New books for Homebuilders From: sonja.englert@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: sonja.englert@juno.com Hi everyone, I would like to introduce myself to this group. I am an aeronautical engineer, pilot, airplane homebuilder and writer. I have written 3 new books for airplane homebuilders, which you can check out on my web page www.caroengineering.com. They are mainly for airplane homebuilders, but should be of interest to anyone who wants to install engines, work with composites or flight test an airplane. Cheers, Sonja Englert www.caroengineering.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:16 PM PST US From: "walter evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" Oscar, Just wanted to add my very limited input on Azusa brakes. I personally didn't want disc brakes for the look. So I put on the 4" drum brakes. Now with my very limited hours (3.5) on the Piet, I can only give my very limited input. The early ones had a skid and ran on turf runways. All I wanted was to hold fast during runup and to brake on taxiways. I heard all the horror stories of guys applying the brakes on landing and nosing over. While taxiing with my FFP404 U/L down the taxiway with a long downgrade, and seeing planes holding waiting to takeoff, and you don't know how to stop without running on the gravel, or into the deep grass. Guess what I'm saying is that I wanted less (just enough) brakes more than I wanted good brakes. Right now the 4" brakes hold me in runup (A-65) @ 1500 rpm, and I would never apply brakes on landing unless I was heading into the puckerbrush, and it was life threatening. Up till now the 4" are exactly what I planned on in my limited fly time. The 4" brakes are "enough" for me, and I'm satisfied with them. Just my input so others can make the best choice for themselves. Have a flying friend who is in a club with a taildragger, and four people have applied brakes and nosed over. While getting a BFR in an Aeronca last year had a VERY experienced CFI give me a tip (maybe I should have known it before) "If you have to apply brakes during landing,,,use one brake, and the opposite rudder to keep straight". He said you will never nose over, only thing you could do is ground loop. thanks walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > Brake-heads; > > If you're even remotely thinking of using the Azusa drum-type brakes, do > yourself a favor and don't consider the 4" ones. They are strictly for > ultralight type vehicles. I have a set of them on my Flying Squirrel and > can tell you that while they are simple and inexpensive, the drums are very > thin material and hard to true up. Also, under hard braking they will > deform. Use the next size larger ones (I think they are 5") since the drums > are a bit heavier and have enough material that you can turn them carefully > to true them up. Better braking power for our size airplanes, too. > > Much better option is the go-kart mechanical disk, a la Mike Cuy, if you > want to go simple and mechanical. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:48 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower Walt, You are right, here in our club is an expert bushpilot that owns a C-180, (he flys here in a Quicksilver MXII), well he told me once that the brakes in his 180 are the parts that need less changing of all his plane. "A taildrager pilot will only need the brakes for runup (not moving, no wear) and to do 180 turns in a strip (stoped wheel is not moving, no wear either)" he also added "the pilot that uses brakes on landing needs more planning, practice and or instruction FAST! he is in big danger of noseover"... "fly the plane and let it rol until it stops". Saludos Gary Gower --- walter evans wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" > > > Oscar, > Just wanted to add my very limited input on Azusa brakes. I > personally > didn't want disc brakes for the look. So I put on the 4" drum > brakes. Now > with my very limited hours (3.5) on the Piet, I can only give my very > limited input. > The early ones had a skid and ran on turf runways. > All I wanted was to hold fast during runup and to brake on taxiways. > I heard all the horror stories of guys applying the brakes on landing > and > nosing over. > While taxiing with my FFP404 U/L down the taxiway with a long > downgrade, > and seeing planes holding waiting to takeoff, > and you don't know how to stop without running on the gravel, > or into > the deep grass. > Guess what I'm saying is that I wanted less (just enough) brakes more > than I > wanted good brakes. > Right now the 4" brakes hold me in runup (A-65) @ 1500 rpm, and I > would > never apply brakes on landing unless I was heading into the > puckerbrush, and > it was life threatening. > Up till now the 4" are exactly what I planned on in my limited fly > time. > The 4" brakes are "enough" for me, and I'm satisfied with them. > Just my input so others can make the best choice for themselves. > Have a flying friend who is in a club with a taildragger, and four > people > have applied brakes and nosed over. > > While getting a BFR in an Aeronca last year had a VERY experienced > CFI give > me a tip (maybe I should have known it before) "If you have to apply > brakes > during landing,,,use one brake, and the opposite rudder to keep > straight". > He said you will never nose over, only thing you could do is ground > loop. > thanks > walt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oscar Zuniga" > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > > > Brake-heads; > > > > If you're even remotely thinking of using the Azusa drum-type > brakes, do > > yourself a favor and don't consider the 4" ones. They are strictly > for > > ultralight type vehicles. I have a set of them on my Flying > Squirrel and > > can tell you that while they are simple and inexpensive, the drums > are > very > > thin material and hard to true up. Also, under hard braking they > will > > deform. Use the next size larger ones (I think they are 5") since > the > drums > > are a bit heavier and have enough material that you can turn them > carefully > > to true them up. Better braking power for our size airplanes, too. > > > > Much better option is the go-kart mechanical disk, a la Mike Cuy, > if you > > want to go simple and mechanical. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > San Antonio, TX > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:44 PM PST US From: "walter evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" Gary, Thanks, I love to hear these things from instructors that really work. And I love to hear from people who hear it from their great instructors. I love to learn! Ain't life grand! walt ps Gary,,,Some day I want to shake your hand, and meet you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Walt, > > You are right, here in our club is an expert bushpilot that owns a > C-180, (he flys here in a Quicksilver MXII), well he told me once that > the brakes in his 180 are the parts that need less changing of all his > plane. "A taildrager pilot will only need the brakes for runup (not > moving, no wear) and to do 180 turns in a strip (stoped wheel is not > moving, no wear either)" he also added "the pilot that uses brakes on > landing needs more planning, practice and or instruction FAST! he is in > big danger of noseover"... "fly the plane and let it rol until it > stops". > > Saludos > Gary Gower > > --- walter evans wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" > > > > > > Oscar, > > Just wanted to add my very limited input on Azusa brakes. I > > personally > > didn't want disc brakes for the look. So I put on the 4" drum > > brakes. Now > > with my very limited hours (3.5) on the Piet, I can only give my very > > limited input. > > The early ones had a skid and ran on turf runways. > > All I wanted was to hold fast during runup and to brake on taxiways. > > I heard all the horror stories of guys applying the brakes on landing > > and > > nosing over. > > While taxiing with my FFP404 U/L down the taxiway with a long > > downgrade, > > and seeing planes holding waiting to takeoff, > > and you don't know how to stop without running on the gravel, > > or into > > the deep grass. > > Guess what I'm saying is that I wanted less (just enough) brakes more > > than I > > wanted good brakes. > > Right now the 4" brakes hold me in runup (A-65) @ 1500 rpm, and I > > would > > never apply brakes on landing unless I was heading into the > > puckerbrush, and > > it was life threatening. > > Up till now the 4" are exactly what I planned on in my limited fly > > time. > > The 4" brakes are "enough" for me, and I'm satisfied with them. > > Just my input so others can make the best choice for themselves. > > Have a flying friend who is in a club with a taildragger, and four > > people > > have applied brakes and nosed over. > > > > While getting a BFR in an Aeronca last year had a VERY experienced > > CFI give > > me a tip (maybe I should have known it before) "If you have to apply > > brakes > > during landing,,,use one brake, and the opposite rudder to keep > > straight". > > He said you will never nose over, only thing you could do is ground > > loop. > > thanks > > walt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Oscar Zuniga" > > To: > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > > > > > > Brake-heads; > > > > > > If you're even remotely thinking of using the Azusa drum-type > > brakes, do > > > yourself a favor and don't consider the 4" ones. They are strictly > > for > > > ultralight type vehicles. I have a set of them on my Flying > > Squirrel and > > > can tell you that while they are simple and inexpensive, the drums > > are > > very > > > thin material and hard to true up. Also, under hard braking they > > will > > > deform. Use the next size larger ones (I think they are 5") since > > the > > drums > > > are a bit heavier and have enough material that you can turn them > > carefully > > > to true them up. Better braking power for our size airplanes, too. > > > > > > Much better option is the go-kart mechanical disk, a la Mike Cuy, > > if you > > > want to go simple and mechanical. > > > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > > San Antonio, TX > > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:13 PM PST US From: Kip & Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner At 5:48 PM -0500 01/15/03, Gary Gower wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower > >Walt, > >You are right, here in our club is an expert bushpilot that owns a >C-180, (he flys here in a Quicksilver MXII), well he told me once that >the brakes in his 180 are the parts that need less changing of all his >plane. "A taildrager pilot will only need the brakes for runup (not >moving, no wear) and to do 180 turns in a strip (stoped wheel is not >moving, no wear either)" he also added "the pilot that uses brakes on >landing needs more planning, practice and or instruction FAST! he is in >big danger of noseover"... "fly the plane and let it rol until it >stops". > >Saludos >Gary Gower Well, this fits with the way my flight instructor has been teaching me (since I decided to start instruction in a taildragger). The only times he even lets me touch the brakes are when he's propping the plane, during run-up and occasionally to stop the plane on the ramp. My landing rolls take less than half of the runway & he's big on having me fly the plane to a 3-point landing. I hadn't even thought about the implications of all this until this discussion started, but it all makes sense. Hope everyone is having a good New Year. Cheers, Kip Gardner (not getting much instructiuon in thanks to our wonderful OH winter weather) North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:05 PM PST US From: Les Schubert Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert All thanks for the input. My wheels have 5" brake drums so the 5" gocart mechanical brakes look like a good simple and relatively inexpensive answer that should even look right. Once again thank you to all for your input. This egroup is great, I have learned a lot, more to learn of course. Regards Les At 06:50 PM 15/01/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" > > >Gary, >Thanks, I love to hear these things from instructors that really work. And >I love to hear from people who hear it from their great instructors. >I love to learn! >Ain't life grand! >walt >ps Gary,,,Some day I want to shake your hand, and meet you. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gary Gower" >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > > > Walt, > > > > You are right, here in our club is an expert bushpilot that owns a > > C-180, (he flys here in a Quicksilver MXII), well he told me once that > > the brakes in his 180 are the parts that need less changing of all his > > plane. "A taildrager pilot will only need the brakes for runup (not > > moving, no wear) and to do 180 turns in a strip (stoped wheel is not > > moving, no wear either)" he also added "the pilot that uses brakes on > > landing needs more planning, practice and or instruction FAST! he is in > > big danger of noseover"... "fly the plane and let it rol until it > > stops". > > > > Saludos > > Gary Gower > > > > --- walter evans wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" > > > > > > > > > Oscar, > > > Just wanted to add my very limited input on Azusa brakes. I > > > personally > > > didn't want disc brakes for the look. So I put on the 4" drum > > > brakes. Now > > > with my very limited hours (3.5) on the Piet, I can only give my very > > > limited input. > > > The early ones had a skid and ran on turf runways. > > > All I wanted was to hold fast during runup and to brake on taxiways. > > > I heard all the horror stories of guys applying the brakes on landing > > > and > > > nosing over. > > > While taxiing with my FFP404 U/L down the taxiway with a long > > > downgrade, > > > and seeing planes holding waiting to takeoff, > > > and you don't know how to stop without running on the gravel, > > > or into > > > the deep grass. > > > Guess what I'm saying is that I wanted less (just enough) brakes more > > > than I > > > wanted good brakes. > > > Right now the 4" brakes hold me in runup (A-65) @ 1500 rpm, and I > > > would > > > never apply brakes on landing unless I was heading into the > > > puckerbrush, and > > > it was life threatening. > > > Up till now the 4" are exactly what I planned on in my limited fly > > > time. > > > The 4" brakes are "enough" for me, and I'm satisfied with them. > > > Just my input so others can make the best choice for themselves. > > > Have a flying friend who is in a club with a taildragger, and four > > > people > > > have applied brakes and nosed over. > > > > > > While getting a BFR in an Aeronca last year had a VERY experienced > > > CFI give > > > me a tip (maybe I should have known it before) "If you have to apply > > > brakes > > > during landing,,,use one brake, and the opposite rudder to keep > > > straight". > > > He said you will never nose over, only thing you could do is ground > > > loop. > > > thanks > > > walt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > To: > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Azusa drum brakes > > > > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > > > > > > > > > Brake-heads; > > > > > > > > If you're even remotely thinking of using the Azusa drum-type > > > brakes, do > > > > yourself a favor and don't consider the 4" ones. They are strictly > > > for > > > > ultralight type vehicles. I have a set of them on my Flying > > > Squirrel and > > > > can tell you that while they are simple and inexpensive, the drums > > > are > > > very > > > > thin material and hard to true up. Also, under hard braking they > > > will > > > > deform. Use the next size larger ones (I think they are 5") since > > > the > > > drums > > > > are a bit heavier and have enough material that you can turn them > > > carefully > > > > to true them up. Better braking power for our size airplanes, too. > > > > > > > > Much better option is the go-kart mechanical disk, a la Mike Cuy, > > > if you > > > > want to go simple and mechanical. > > > > > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > > > San Antonio, TX > > > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:41 PM PST US From: clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wicker seats --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif Just punch "wicker" into your google search- pick your choice out of 100's of sites covering all aspects of the subject. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wicker seats > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" > > Don, > Don't forget you have to stand on the seat to get into the plane. > Skip > > >I'd like to consider wicker seats in my Piet, but cannot find anyone > >who makes them. Does anyone know of anyone that does this sort of work? > >Thanks for your help. Don Cooley > >