---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/11/03: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:31 AM - mockup (John and Susan) 2. 07:53 AM - Fw: [f-AA] transponder for a 7AC? (Cy Galley) 3. 08:01 AM - Building in Alaska - Long (Rollin) 4. 09:05 AM - Re: Wing tanks (Barry Davis) 5. 04:15 PM - Re: long fuse gear (Kip & Beth Gardner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:08 AM PST US From: "John and Susan" Subject: Pietenpol-List: mockup --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John and Susan" HI Gang; I am in the Fla panhandle; on St George Island, 75 miles southwest of Tallahassee. I have a full size fuselage mockup from rear seat to firewall. Anyone is welcome to it. It was a great help in locating everything.Come and get it or it will become a beach bonfire. My fuselage is done-- here are the adjectives; level,plumb, square, strong, simple, and light. Thanks Bernie. Cheers John Ficklen ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:40 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: [f-AA] transponder for a 7AC? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Government Programs" Bogenhagen" Subject: RE: [f-AA] transponder for a 7AC? Cy and Paul, EAA has been working with the TSA (and the FAA) since they issued the new ADIZ around the DC area. In a meeting yesterday, they confirmed the requirements of the ADIZ Notam - all aircraft, including ultralights, operating within the ADIZ must have a operational transponder and a two way radio - no exceptions. They also indicated that when the threat level goes back down the ADIZ will remain, but will be moved in to match the current Class B airspace, but will move back to it's current position if the threat level should ever go back up to Orange or Red. I don't know about cheaper transponder or radio options - I'll pass that question to Joe and Mark in EAA's Aviation Information Services department. One good thing that did come out of the meeting is that normal ADIZ's require all aircraft to have 12" N numbers - but this is not a "normal" ADIZ, so all aircraft can keep their current markings, vintage/Warbird/AB ultralight aircraft with small N numbers and ultralight vehicles with small EAA/ASC/USUA registration numbers. TSA also acknowledged that procedures must be established to allow owners of aircraft and ultralight vehicles who elect not to install the required equipment to fly (or "flush") their aircraft from the effected area. They kind of did it this time with the 3 day advance warning, but for those who did not look at Notams during that advance notice they acknowledge that other procedures must be established for "flushing". Randy -----Original Message----- From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley@qcbc.org] Subject: Fw: [f-AA] transponder for a 7AC? Check with govt@eaa.org to see your options. Did they give you an FAR? Or just badger you with its they way we are going to do it under the "patriot" act and we make the rules. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Miller" Subject: [f-AA] transponder for a 7AC? > According to the TSA/FAA, yesterday morning the 7AC Champ (A-65-8) and many other classic > aircraft became a threat to national security as they do not have a transponder. They are no > longer allowed to fly in the Baltimore-Washington extended Class B airspace. As our plane was > based in that area, on Sunday we flew it out of the area. If we decide to keep the Champ our > options seem to be: > 1. Keep it outside and drive an hour to the plane (versus 10 minutes) > 2. Install a transponder and upgrade the handheld radio so that we can talk with the FSS and > Balt. Approach. > > Option 2 seems to mean that we need to get: altitude encoder, transponder antenna, transponder, > ground plane, battery, battery charger, wires and installation. The avionics shop quoted $2500 > for the lot. The radio upgrade ranges from $30-$2500 depending on how much needs to be done. > > So, has anyone installed a simpler, less expensive transponder system?! > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Aeronca mailing list > Aeronca@mail.westmont.edu > http://mail.westmont.edu/mailman/listinfo/aeronca > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:01 AM PST US From: "Rollin" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building in Alaska - Long --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rollin" Posted this last night but used the wrong mail account to send it, will try again, sorry... First of all, I would like to thank all of you on the list for your help. We have been lurking on the list the last two years and have gained much from all of your input. The short version of this story is that the Piet is going to be ready for taxi test in a two or three weeks. The bad news is that it is winter here and we might not get any flying weather for a few months. And now a warning. I sometimes ramble and this might turn into a long note. There isn't a test at the end so feel free to delete this if it gets too long for you. Ken is the fellow building the Piet in Juneau, Alaska. He is pretty old. Over 60 anyway and retired. He is one of the local "every day's a Saturday" group that hangs out at the airport. Me, I'm a part of this group but not retired, much to young for that. I like to think that I'm between jobs, plus, the wife has a good job and someone has to drive the dog around in the back of the pickup. Now, a little history. I first meet Ken about 30 years ago. I was new to flying, had about 100 hours and knew everything about flying. I bought a Piper J-3 in Minneapolis. Well it took about two weeks to fly that plane back to Juneau and I almost doubled my flying time doing it. I also learned that J-3s land a lot different than a Cessna 150. I quickly learned that you wanted to find the widest runway possible for landing, and while you might start your landing in the middle of the runway the plane would quickly go up on one wheel and head towards the runway lights. When it got close to the lights it would jump on the other wheel and head for the other side of the runway.... Another interesting thing that happened was that when I left Minneapolis the J-3 was a pretty blue and white. As I crossed the country the paint started peeling off and by the time I landed in Juneau the plane was blue, white, gray, black and red. Hummmmm, they must have forgot to put the glue in the paint. Shortly after arriving in Juneau I meet Ken. He was one of the local mechanics and was kind of famous at the time because he had his own hangar to work in. He use to say that all the other mechanics had to drill hole in their tool boxes to let the rain water out....did I say it rains a lot in Juneau? Anyway, he came over to the plane after I landed one day, pulled about a three foot piece of paint off and made some comment about the plane having had a very cheap overhaul. Well he watched me from a distance for a few months and then one day came over to tell me that the engine was probably getting low on compression. Well I didn't know what compression was but I still knew everything there was to know about airplanes and flying. It turned out that Ken had never seen anyone as strong as me hand prop a plane and he was confused at the prop going through two or three "compression" each time I pulled on it. The first time I went to Ken to get the plane annualed he mumbled something about when he was young someone had watched over and help him and he guessed I was payback time. Don't know what he was talking about but my plane never fell apart and I am still around. Other than when he was talking about my plane I have never hear him say a bad thing about any think or any body. (I have to take that back, in my younger days he used to cuss and swear went I would come around looking to borrow a tool, go figure) Anyway, I learned that an annual with Ken could take anywhere from a day to a week. If you stayed with the plane, hid the dart board, parked Ken's truck behind the hangar and chases off the riff raft that came around it would take a day or less. Well, after a while the riff raft started bringing their own dart boards when they would see my truck over at the hangar and it was a losing battle. I would just hope for bad weather the WEEK my plane was in the hangar so I wouldn't be missing any flying. In all fairness I must say that the cost of the annual was about the same no matter the number of days in the hangar. Well, fast forward. Now the riff raft are the "every day's a Saturday" group and we all have hangars. Some of them event have planes that have nice paint jobs. Ken still does a little mechanic work but you have to be very good at twisting his arm. Mainly he does what the rest of the group does. Putzes around. And play darts, hunts and fishes, tells lies..... About two summers ago Ken disappeared with a friend to some place called Brodhead and came back to town with a huge box that had a sorry looking, half completed Pietenpol project in it. Did I say it was sorry looking, think firewood. I really think Ken would have been better off starting with a fresh stack of wood but I think that is an alien thought for a mechanic. You start with an airplane and fix it, you don't build a new airplane from a stack of wood. Anyway, over the last two years Ken has totally rebuilt the plane. I have been trying to make him keep the plane light but.... why use angle iron when you can use a piece of square pipe, why build your gas tank out of 1/8th aluminum when you can use 1/4 inch? "Ya need that weight up front cause these things are tail heavy". OR, the other option is that we need that weight up front cause Ken hasn't gone on a diet? We did do a weight on the plane before it got covered and I will try to get the numbers. One of the main people helping Ken over the last couple years has been Jim. While Jim has gray hair he is not part of the "every day's Saturday" group as he works for a living. By trade he is a welder and a very good one at that. For the last year or two he has been showing up on Sundays and welding up parts, landing gear, gas tank, fittings.... and telling lies. Sometime about 4-5 months ago a lady named Mona showed up. She used to be from Juneau and came back for the winter. She and Ken both have cabins on a trout stream in Montana and a deal was struck, he would teach her how to tie flies and she would help him work on the Piet. This is a very funny deal. She has been tying flies for about three months now and they sure look good to me. BUT! Ken is always saying how she has to do this different and trim them better..... About a month ago his line started to change slowly to "We will need about 20 of these and 15 of those for this summer" Hummmm. Not only is she helping him with the airplane but she is also tying flies for him in her spare time. About a month ago the plane was ready to cover so Ken taught Mona how to sew the fabric and iron. To his credit, Ken did do all of the painting - "there is only so much you kan teach a woman!" Well, when it came time to do the rib stitching he need another person as it goes much faster with two people. The next day when I stopped in Ken's wife Marian was on one side of the wing and Mona on the other side with Ken smoking a cigar supervising. Me - "Marian, didn't you just have your hip replaced about two weeks ago" Marian - "Yes... and Ken says it is good exercise to stand in a cold hangar on a concrete floor and rib stitch. He was nice enough to let me come help." No shame that man. Can you say Tom Sawyer? Let me tell you that painting a Piet is one big job. Ken was painting for at least two weeks solid. The original plans were for the plane to be red. The paint booth that he has will only fit a third of the plane at a time: all the control surfaces first, both wings, and then the fuselage. Seems like you had to put on about three coats of polybrush, and then three coats of polyspray, waiting between each coat and cleaning up the tools after each coat. Then there are all of the small parts.... landing gear, struts, brace wires... it just goes on and on. After putting on the third coat of silver Ken decided that he like silver and the heck with red. Also, about half way through painting the plane two things happened. First, Mona announced that she was going to be gone for a week visiting friend in one of the local villages. The second was Ken became depressed and would wander around the hangar saying things like "this is a much bigger job than I ever imagined" or "it just keeps going on and on.... I'm never going to be finished". Well my building partner (RV8) was out of town so I offered to help Ken for a week while Mona was out of town. When I showed up on Monday Ken quickly put me to work pulling the engine off the fuselage so he could paint the fuselage, building the eyebrows for the engine and carrying parts in and out of the paint booth. Only now, looking back, do I realize he didn't seem to be very depressed, in fact he was whistling most of the time.... I think I was had. Oh well, it was a fun week. One of the things that I have seen on the list a couple of time is to look for old cub struts to use for your Piet. This is good advise. When it became know that Ken was building a Piet all kinds of things started to show up at his hangar, two full sets of wing struts, wheels, a 65hp continental.... lots of stuff. I think people figured it was easier than going to the dump. But I don't want you to get the wrong idea, the 65hp was not working, Ken had to buy some mags and sparkplugs to get it running. When I started this e-mail I said it was about two or three weeks to taxi tests. Well, I looked over towards Ken's hangar at lunch today and noticed Estol and Bobs trucks parked by his hangar. They had been out of town for three or four weeks and lots of work was accomplished. Now, with them back, the 1/2 hour lunch break will turn into a two hour + dart game.... I will now estimate that the plane will be ready for taxi tests in a month or two. All for now and will update when the big day comes. Rollin The weight of the plane before covering and without engine cowl is 646lbs, right wheel 310, left wheel 306, tail 30. If calulations are correct this should give it an empty cg of 11.5 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:32 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" Thanks Barry Davis 728-B Bankhead Ave Carrollton, Ga. 30117 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tanks > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner > > At 11:05 AM -0500 02/06/03, Barry Davis wrote: > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > > > >Does anyone have a sketch on how to build wing tanks for the piet?, or > >where can I find the information? > >Barry Davis > > Barry and Dennis, > > OK, I found 2 sets of fuel tank sketches/plans in the Brodhead Piet Assoc. > newsletters; Jan 2001 and July 2001. They are rather different designs, so > you can pick whatever suits you. One specifies 6061 alum. & the other terne > plate, but you could probably make either one out of whatever material you > want. I'll be glad to send you copies of both - send me addresses. > > Cheers! > > KIp Gardner > > > North Canton, OH > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:06 PM PST US From: Kip & Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long fuse gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner At 10:27 PM -0500 02/02/03, Waytogopiet@aol.com wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Waytogopiet@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/2/2003 8:04:58 PM Central Standard Time, >kipandbeth@earthlink.net writes: > >> I can ask him for details or make measurements for anyone that wants them > >Kip, >I would very much appreciate any info in this regard that Frank can pass >along. I have the long fuselage with the Model A and the solid wood gear, the >same as his. I had built and installed the gear before the thread began on >this subject. Of course that gear was intended for the original FGM version. >I positioned mine in the location of the second version ("new, improved") >which is probably equally wrong but I wanted to resist making any changes >before doing my w&b and seeing what my tailwheel weight was. There may be >meaningful differences dpending on whether Frank used fir or spruce on his >fuselage. I did make a concerted effort to keep mine light in the >tailfeathers and used spruce throughout. I'm fully covered, painted and >complete and hopefully will be doing my final w&b this weekend. Thanks agin >for the offer. Don Hicks Don, Well, I made it to the airport this weekend - missed Frank Pavliga by mere minutes! However, I'm told he's been there a lot recently, finishing up the Waco; anyone with 170k to burn, it's a gorgeous aircraft. Anyway, I did get the firewall-to-axle measurement on Sky Gypsy. It's 19", plus or minus 1/4" It was COLD & DARK in the hangar, so I'm not apologizing for the sloppy measurement ;). Also ,for what it's worth, the Chunk'o lead that Chris Bobka mentioned is definitely AWOL from anywhwere on or about the engine/engine mount. I will still try to get W&B details from Frank sometime soon, so as to make things more meaningful. Cheers! Kip Gardner North Canton, OH