Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:50 AM - Re: Firewall shaping (clif)
2. 03:03 AM - Windshield (Jack Phillips)
3. 05:23 AM - Re: 1932 Flying & Glider Manual (Ken Rickards)
4. 08:01 AM - Re: Firewall shaping (Jon Botsford)
5. 08:41 AM - DJ's turtle deck const. pics (Michael D Cuy)
6. 10:24 AM - Re: Winter Relief (Gadd, Skip)
7. 12:28 PM - Re: Firewall shaping (Gary Gower)
8. 12:50 PM - Re: Windshield (walter evans)
9. 01:14 PM - another windshield Q (Richard Navratril)
10. 01:36 PM - Re: another windshield Q (Kent Hallsten)
11. 02:08 PM - Result of Pietenpol-List archive search for "Lexan"......: another windshield Q (Jim Markle)
12. 02:17 PM - Re: another windshield Q (del magsam)
13. 02:19 PM - Re: Firewall shaping (ZigoDan@aol.com)
14. 02:22 PM - Re: another windshield Q (ZigoDan@aol.com)
15. 02:50 PM - do the nozzles shut off automatically?? (walter evans)
16. 05:15 PM - Re: Firewall shaping (Gary Gower)
17. 05:43 PM - Re: Windshield (Jim Malley)
18. 05:44 PM - Re: help needed in Oklahoma (off-topic) (Doug413@aol.com)
19. 06:01 PM - Re: Windshield (Isablcorky@aol.com)
20. 06:39 PM - Re: Windshield (Jack Phillips)
21. 06:48 PM - Re: another windshield Q (Jack Phillips)
22. 08:01 PM - Re: Windshield (ZigoDan@aol.com)
23. 08:07 PM - Re: another windshield Q (ZigoDan@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall shaping |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Why not make your own shrinker/stretcher?
3 pieces 1" x 1/8" steel 10" long and a 1/4" bolt.
I found this on the net but can't find it again now.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZigoDan@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall shaping
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
>
> Walt,
>
> Sounds right, I just couldn't figure out how to spell "shinker", so I
looked
> it up in a Wag Aero catalog and it said stretcher.
>
> PS these guys talking about Tony Bingels way must have never seen the nice
> job a shinker will do. However I do realize the tool is expensive, and
> hacksaws, and drills are not making Tony's way a little more feasible for
> most.
>
> Dan
>
>
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net>
Here's a question for the colleective wisdom of this group. I'm about to
make the windshields for my Pietenpol (the last task before beginning to
cover it!). I'm making the flat style three piece windshield rather than
the curved type. Does anyone know what the typical design parameters are
for windshields? Should they come up as high as the pilot's eyes, or even
with the top of the pilot's head? I believe the old Wacos reduced the
windblast effect somewhat by sloping the front windshield pretty severely,
but that is not really an option with a Pietenpol due to the roll wires
between the front cabane struts. How tall have other folks made their
windshields, and are they happy with the results?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Message 3
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| Subject: | 1932 Flying & Glider Manual |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards <krickards@cvci.com>
Thanks Graham,
As you say, Westy may have had a hand in the article, he is mentioned a
couple of times.
Ken,
DO NOT ARCHIVE
In cold Stoney Creek Ontario, (waiting for the next big snow tomorrow)
GN1 2992
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Hansen [mailto:grhans@cable-lynx.net]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1932 Flying & Glider Manual
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen"
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Ken,
Clotilde, as Gary says, is a girl's name. It has no aeronautical
significance in the F & G Manual article.
Although the article is purportedly written by B.H. Pietenpol, I suspect
that Weston (Westy) Farmer
had a hand in it since the writing style does not seem to be consistent with
the speaking style of BHP.
(My friend and I visited Bernard on our way home from Oshkosh, August 4,
1982. He had a great
sense of humor, in spite having a painful hip, but somehow the text of that
article just doesn't sound
like him. We will always treasure the memory of that visit with BHP.)
Westy Farmer, I believe, was editor of the publication and no doubt would
have had input regarding
the Pietenpol article. Maybe he knew someone named Clotilde???
DO NOT ARCHIVE
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Graham---in cold, snowy Alberta, Canada where we expect this sort of winter
weather. (I was too
dumb to emigrate to a warmer place when I was young!)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall shaping |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "clif" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall shaping
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Why not make your own shrinker/stretcher?
3 pieces 1" x 1/8" steel 10" long and a 1/4" bolt.
I found this on the net but can't find it again now.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZigoDan@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall shaping
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
>
> Walt,
>
> Sounds right, I just couldn't figure out how to spell "shinker", so I
looked
> it up in a Wag Aero catalog and it said stretcher.
>
> PS these guys talking about Tony Bingels way must have never seen the nice
> job a shinker will do. However I do realize the tool is expensive, and
> hacksaws, and drills are not making Tony's way a little more feasible for
> most.
>
> Dan
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | DJ's turtle deck const. pics |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
For those of you who have not done your turtle deck and stringers----DJ's
web site
pics show a great sequence of photos that are self-explanatory. Between
his workmanship
and Jack P. those two are going to go head-to-head for if they ever show up
at the same fly-in !!!!
Mike C.
(do not archive)
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-27-02.htm
and
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/11-20-02.htm
Message 6
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
John,
Great pictures! You did get the ID correct.
I would like to see more.
Skip, Still working on wheel hubs in atlanta.
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann <jhofmann@charter.net>
>The yellow Piet is Larry Williams and the Blue one is Dennis Hall's. I
think
>I got the identification right. I have a few more from this year and last
if
>anyone cares. Enjoy!
>-john-
http://www.johnnyskyrocket.com/bh/
Follow the above link for the photos.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall shaping |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
My brother Larry made on "shrinker" with a cleco tool (we bought 5
CTools with our kits and never use more than 3 at a time).
He welding 3 rods aligned, then we file shaped it, it works perfect.
Was used to build our Stailess Steel firewall.
No cost to build (just the cost of the Cleco Tool.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- ZigoDan@aol.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
>
> Walt,
>
> Sounds right, I just couldn't figure out how to spell "shinker", so I
> looked
> it up in a Wag Aero catalog and it said stretcher.
>
> PS these guys talking about Tony Bingels way must have never seen the
> nice
> job a shinker will do. However I do realize the tool is expensive,
> and
> hacksaws, and drills are not making Tony's way a little more feasible
> for
> most.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 8
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
I made the curved type from the print. Why not make a cardboard mock-up of
that one (I assume you got the print in your plans) and hold it up and see
how tall it is. Make the square one just as high. In my three and a half
hours on mine , it seems just right.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshield
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"
<jackphillips@earthlink.net>
>
> Here's a question for the colleective wisdom of this group. I'm about to
> make the windshields for my Pietenpol (the last task before beginning to
> cover it!). I'm making the flat style three piece windshield rather than
> the curved type. Does anyone know what the typical design parameters are
> for windshields? Should they come up as high as the pilot's eyes, or even
> with the top of the pilot's head? I believe the old Wacos reduced the
> windblast effect somewhat by sloping the front windshield pretty severely,
> but that is not really an option with a Pietenpol due to the roll wires
> between the front cabane struts. How tall have other folks made their
> windshields, and are they happy with the results?
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | another windshield Q |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I have already cut my lexan from a template. Now I would like to heat form it.
Does anyone have ideas of heating required and methods for bending? I dont
have much scrap left to play with.
Dick N.
Message 10
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| Subject: | another windshield Q |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
> I have already cut my lexan from a template. Now I would
> like to heat form it. Does anyone have ideas of heating
> required and methods for bending? I dont have much scrap
> left to play with.
> Dick N.
>
Dick,
I have seen a web site(s) where the builder heats up the plastic in a kitchen
oven, low heat I believe. They would have the windshield laying on a mold
that had the curved shape they desired. I think the mold had a layer of carpet
to help protect the plastic. As the windshield got warm it would drape
itself over the mold. Maybe you can do a Google search and come across this,
sorry I can't be of more help but it's been a long time since I saw it. I thought
it was neat when I saw it, but realized my kitchen oven is a bit too small
to pack a windshield into it. Your oven may work, of course.
Kent Hallsten
Oklahoma City
Message 11
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| Subject: | Result of Pietenpol-List archive search for "Lexan"......: |
another windshield Q
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Match: #34
Message: #11342
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs@southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Windshield Framing Material
Date: May 21, 2000
If you use a piece of Lexan or equal, you can bend it in a sheet metal
brake -- a cardboard template will let you know the shape & size -- 3/32"
or
1/8" material should do the job -- use at least a 1 to 2 thickness inside
radius so you don't have any cracks on the edges. Plex has to be heated
along the bend to be formed that way.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: another windshield Q
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril"
<horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> I have already cut my lexan from a template. Now I would like to heat
form it. Does anyone have ideas of heating required and methods for
bending? I dont have much scrap left to play with.
> Dick N.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: another windshield Q |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
Hi Dick
lexan is extremely hard to heat form. but you can cold
bend it somewhat. if you want to heat form it, I would
buy PETG. It is tough like lexan, forms as easy as
acrylic, and is very cheap. you have to keep it
covered in hot weather though as it deforms easier.
two ways to form it is either drape it over a plug,
using hot oil to heat it. the plug should be covered
in the best cotton sheet and soaked with hot peanut
oil. or clamping it in a form, heating it in an oven
and free blowing it with air pressure. there was an
article a couple months ago in custom planes that was
really informative.
Del
--- Richard Navratril <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard
> Navratril" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> I have already cut my lexan from a template. Now I
> would like to heat form it. Does anyone have ideas
> of heating required and methods for bending? I dont
> have much scrap left to play with.
> Dick N.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall shaping |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
Hold on your brother did not build a metal shinker out of Cleco pliers?
But he may have built some fluting, or crimping pliers.
There is a big difference, with fluting pliers you get a ripple to the metal
edge. What I have been talking about that makes the best and most
professional look is a shinker-stretcher, and it has special powerful jaws.
I have the AS catalog with the Luscombe on the front, on page 460 look at the
Original Lancaster metal former and tell me if your brother really made one
of these? If so my hat is off to him.
Dan
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: another windshield Q |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
Dick,
Do not heat form it, bend it in a sheet metal brake. It bends just metal,
try it on scrap in a vice. If you do not have a brake, go to a local Heating
and Air duct shop and use theirs.
Dan
Message 15
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"Fishnet" <Fishnet@topica.com>
| Subject: | do the nozzles shut off automatically?? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" <wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
I'm ashamed to admit ,that when I started flying, I flew a club plane that was
always fueled by a line/fuel guy with a roving gas truck.
Every plane from way back then till 6 years ago was always full when I got it.
Then, got into Ultralights, and the " carry/mix your own fuel."
Well anyway,,,now my Pietenpol is flying, and the first few main tank fulls I hand
carried from the airport next door, with 100LL.
Soon it'll be time to grow up and fly to my second permitted airport , in Phase
1 , for fuel in Sussex NJ, to the north.
I have a 14 gal main/nose tank, and a 10 gal center/ top wing tank ( that feeds
by gravity to the main tank)
I know the mess that I've had fuelling the U/L with a gas can, and over filling.
Do the AV GAS pump nozzles shut off automatically like a car gas nozzle?
I've only put some gas in planes since, and never filled them up. Can I over fill
the top tank and fill up the cockpit and my seat?
Or do I have to do the " watch the gallons and do the finger wave thing"?
What I'm asking is,,,"do the nozzles shut off automatically?"
walt
NX140DL
(north N.J.)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall shaping |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Dan,
You are right, what he made this time was crimping pliers...
I could not find the tool you mentioned, he builds tools (mainly
stamping type), my english is limited in some areas, for what I
understand. Is this one the type that goes in the hidraulic long press
to make kind of "waves" to reinforce the thin metal?...
He made one that we plan to use in our Zenith 701 for the bottom
inspection door, normaly the part from the kit comes with bents from
the corner to the center (like air conditioning ducts).
Well, sorry for my mistake.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- ZigoDan@aol.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
>
> Hold on your brother did not build a metal shinker out of Cleco
> pliers?
> But he may have built some fluting, or crimping pliers.
> There is a big difference, with fluting pliers you get a ripple to
> the metal
> edge. What I have been talking about that makes the best and most
> professional look is a shinker-stretcher, and it has special powerful
> jaws.
> I have the AS catalog with the Luscombe on the front, on page 460
> look at the
> Original Lancaster metal former and tell me if your brother really
> made one
> of these? If so my hat is off to him.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 17
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Malley <jgmalley@comcast.net>
Whatever type windshield you build, I suggest making it high enough to send
the air over your head. About 20 years ago I flew in one Piet with a low
windshield, it was a nice flying airplane and comfortable at first, but the
blast on my forehead was tiring after a while. You'll find that the higher
windshield will also be greatly appreciated in cool weather. Unfortunately,
the windshield can't be raked too much for the reasons you describe, but
they make neat clear speed brakes, though. Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshield
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"
<jackphillips@earthlink.net>
>
> Here's a question for the colleective wisdom of this group. I'm about to
> make the windshields for my Pietenpol (the last task before beginning to
> cover it!). I'm making the flat style three piece windshield rather than
> the curved type. Does anyone know what the typical design parameters are
> for windshields? Should they come up as high as the pilot's eyes, or even
> with the top of the pilot's head? I believe the old Wacos reduced the
> windblast effect somewhat by sloping the front windshield pretty severely,
> but that is not really an option with a Pietenpol due to the roll wires
> between the front cabane struts. How tall have other folks made their
> windshields, and are they happy with the results?
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: help needed in Oklahoma (off-topic) |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Doug413@aol.com
In a message dated 2/20/2003 2:55:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
> Hello, folks;
>
> A buddy lost his Tri-Pacer in a non-flying ground incident and is looking
> to
> replace it ASAP. One of the airplanes he's looking at is in Guthrie, OK
> and
> he only has verbal info and photos of it, so I'm trying to help find
> someone
> reliable who might be able to actually eyeball the airplane for a second
> opinion. Any of you good Pieters near Guthrie? Email me off-net; thanks.
>
Oscar,
I live in Wichita, Kansas which is about 120 miles North of Guthrie. I would
be willing to go look at the plane. Let me know the details and if there is
still a need. Doug Bryant
Message 19
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Pieters,
Having read the net today I feel I should ground N41CC as I did not do any of
these good things you are discussing.
First. I used Lexan for my two windshields. After making patterns from poster
boards and fabing my five attaching clips I bent, drilled and bolted it down
without heat, peanut oil or any other aids you talk about. SHE FLIES.
Second. On the fire wall thing. I used a sheet of .032 Stainless steel cut to
shape of firewall without any crimping or flanging. I did make it in two
parts, the lower part removable for maintenance on fuel system and cut off
valves etc and access to the front rudder pedals.
They say this thing is experimental and boy did I experiment. SHE FLIES
Hope this is not too offensive for you purists.
Corky in La with 4 ribs completed on N84CC
Message 20
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net>
Pretty good idea, Walt. Now if I can just find that windshield pattern that
came with the plans seven years ago ...
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walter
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshield
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans"
<wbeevans@worldnet.att.net>
I made the curved type from the print. Why not make a cardboard mock-up of
that one (I assume you got the print in your plans) and hold it up and see
how tall it is. Make the square one just as high. In my three and a half
hours on mine , it seems just right.
walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshield
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"
<jackphillips@earthlink.net>
>
> Here's a question for the colleective wisdom of this group. I'm about to
> make the windshields for my Pietenpol (the last task before beginning to
> cover it!). I'm making the flat style three piece windshield rather than
> the curved type. Does anyone know what the typical design parameters are
> for windshields? Should they come up as high as the pilot's eyes, or even
> with the top of the pilot's head? I believe the old Wacos reduced the
> windblast effect somewhat by sloping the front windshield pretty severely,
> but that is not really an option with a Pietenpol due to the roll wires
> between the front cabane struts. How tall have other folks made their
> windshields, and are they happy with the results?
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | another windshield Q |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <jackphillips@earthlink.net>
Hi Dick,
Years ago I did some heat forming of Lexan. It doesn't take much
temperature - maybe 200 deg. in your wife's oven. It will be very pliable
after a few minutes in the oven and can be draped over a form to cool. To
get really slick, make your form of aluminum with tiny holes drilled on 1"
squares and a plenum chamber on the back side connected to a vacuum (like a
shop vac). Put the softened lexan in place, turn on the vacuum and it will
quickly take the shape of the form.
Be careful with Lexan. Lexan is a polycarbonate and is highly susceptible
to a phenomenon known as "stress-cracking". What happens is that while
polycarbonate is very strong, in the presence of some solvents it loses
strength very rapidly, to the point that any locked in stresses (such as the
stresses applied by the bolts holding the windshiedl in place) can cause
cracks to develop. Unfortunately, one of the solvents that causes this is
gasoline. If you have any stresses in the windshield and spill a little gas
on it, it will likely begin to crack around the screw holes. I once saw a
Lexan windshield on a Starduster Too get some 100 octane splashed on it and
the whole thing just crazed and shattered right before my eyes. I was
working the line at the airport and certainly was glad that the owner had
fueled the plane, instead of me being responsible. Acrylic (plexiglas) is
not as strong as polycarbonate, but is not so susceptible to stress
cracking.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Navratril
Subject: Pietenpol-List: another windshield Q
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril"
<horzpool@goldengate.net>
I have already cut my lexan from a template. Now I would like to heat form
it. Does anyone have ideas of heating required and methods for bending? I
dont have much scrap left to play with.
Dick N.
Message 22
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
Corky,
To each his own, that's the great thing about homebuilts.
Dan
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: another windshield Q |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ZigoDan@aol.com
Jack,
I know what you mean, my Hipps Reliant has a Lexan windshields and is
cracking right around the filler neck area where gas has splashed on it.
Makes me wonder if this is the reason most certified windshields are made
from Plexiglass?
Dan
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