---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/13/03: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:07 AM - Re: Rudder bar (craigwilcox@peoplepc.com) 2. 08:01 AM - Re: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar? update (walter evans) 3. 08:49 AM - Tail wheel steering (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 4. 10:57 AM - Tail wheel cart (Carl Loar) 5. 02:25 PM - Re: Building a Piet (John McNarry) 6. 05:15 PM - Re: Building a Piet (walter evans) 7. 06:23 PM - Re: Building a Piet (Jack Phillips) 8. 07:06 PM - Tail wheel (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 9. 09:11 PM - (chris gomez) 10. 09:53 PM - Re: Building a Piet (Christian Bobka) 11. 09:54 PM - Re: Building a Piet (Christian Bobka) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:28 AM PST US From: craigwilcox@peoplepc.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder bar --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: craigwilcox@peoplepc.com On Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:16:14 -0400, Kip & Beth Gardner wrote: > > "When you make the decision to build, no matter > what it is, you are > >no longer a spectator. During my years in aviation, I > have come to have a > >tremendous respect for anyone who builds a single > part, and I have nothing > >but the deepest contempt for anyone who would begin to > critique another > >man's work, having done none himself. I simply have a sign in our shop - "No Critiquing Until You've Dirtied YOUR Hands On This Project!" Craig Wilcox Senior Environmental Scientist I CZR Incorporated 561/747-7455 Cell 561/718-1794 PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:54 AM PST US From: "walter evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar? update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" Thanks for all the input. I've weighed all the pros and cons , and decided to stick with the bar, at least to give it a fair shake. Went up this morning to some pretty stiff breeze. the answer for me personally it to not drag my heels at all , and get the tootsies up where I'm more working the rudder with the heels, and the leg push/pull seems to come easier. guess my brain wants to "flap" my feet as soon as it feels the heels go down. The landing was much more of a "in control" feeling. thanks everyone. walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "walter evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" > > After about 6 or 7 hours, I've decided that I might have to do something about the rudder bar. The only way that you can use it is to push/pull yur whole legs like on a sled. I'm so used to working the toes like "flappers" pivoting on the heels. What am I doing wrong? > Thinking of adding uprights to the bar to make them more toe sensitive, or replacing the bar with standard pedals. > Yesterday I seemed to jam up on the rudder and on landing, the thing almost got away from me and was up on one wheel and looping to the right. Scared the crap out of me. > Anyone else feel this way? > I know the bar is good so you don't collapse the rudder horn, but I may have to change. > walt > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:41 AM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel steering --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Yesterday Jack Philips asked " perhaps your tailwheel steering is too sensitive". I noticed on Lowell Franks Piet. ( Warner radial engine ) that he put longer steering arms on his tw. to make it less sensitive. I'm copying his idea. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:44 AM PST US From: "Carl Loar" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel cart --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" Man o man Mike,,,, the cart came out really sweet. That really makes sense to have. Looks simple enough to build too. BTW,,, I lost the web site where our drawing were. I will rescan them and repost them. Darn ole internet just keeps on a changing. Carl check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:18 PM PST US From: "John McNarry" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" Hey, Bert, Walt, Kip and the rest of you on this list. Please don't go! I've followed this list since its beginning with Steve Eldridge. Did I spell that right Steve? Any way, even though time and too much involvement in running the BCATP Museum, work and life in general limits my building time at present to zero, this list satisfies my builders urge. Bernard was a very capable designer. He experimented lots to get the Air Camper where it is today. I'm sure if he was still with us he would be applying his common sense engineering to the design and modifying it still. For those of you with questions. Study the plans and think. There is a lot there that is easy to miss with a casual glance. Then ask, someone here will know. Remember that Orin Hoopman was only a teenager when he drew the plans. Think about that. If you have the F&G manuals the plans and some good sense you can build this aircraft. Help from Tony B and sport aviation groups helps too, but Geeze guy's don't let anyone piss you off of this list. I'm not even sure I'll register my aircraft as a Pietenpol when it is finished, but somewhere on it will state and give credit to the inspired creations of B.H.Pietenpol that set the design. Hey Corky, remember when you almost gave up and sold yours? You have been a great inspiration to the rest of us! We are still hoping for a report on how much better it carries you solo. Have a great spring and summer. John I might even think about Fisherman as I cast a line...... ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:02 PM PST US From: "walter evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" ----- Original Message ----- From: "John McNarry" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" > > Hey, Bert, Walt, Kip and the rest of you on this list. Please don't go! > > Nah, I'm not going anywhere. I get a kick out of all people and opinions. One end of the spectrum has guys that build to the plans no matter what (and I'm down that end, where I've changed very little) and guys at the other end that changed everything from bracket shape, to gusset shape. That's what makes the world go round. Still a very small percentage of the people of this earth can fly their own creation (from someone elses design) and actually climb out ,level out at altitude, and pull back to cruise,,,,,and look out at the underside of the wing that they built, and amazed at the whole concept of this creation holding them up and responding to their commands. Ain't life grand!! walt > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:56 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Good post, John. Occasionally I get irritated with the list when it seems we are more interested in politics than airplanes, but this list has served its purpose well. I think the quality of Piets being built is improving, and a lot of it is due to this list. I know I have made a number of friends through the list that I wouldn't have made otherwise, some of whom I've now met in person (Mike Cuy, John Hoffmann, Matt Paxton, Gene Hubbard, Gene Rambo, Dick Navratil, Ed Grentzer, PF Beck, Skip Gadd). The plans are more complete than they at first appear (they would have to be, in order to have the number of flying Pietenpols that exist today), but considerable thinking is required. That's one of the things I enjoy most about building this plane. I was watching Dick Navratil build a Piet tailsection at SNF last weekend. He did it totally different from the way I built mine. Equally good (maybe better in some respects) as mine but different. Both are to the plans. The plans just don't specify how you match up the different thicknesses of spruce in the tail structure, so some thinking is required. We're fortunate in this group that we don't have a lot of real purists who declare that everything has to be done exactly to the plans and you must use a model A Ford engine or it isn't a real Pietenpol. The diversity encourages innovation like the recent post on the differential hand brake - an outstanding idea in my opinion. Keep building, guys. Jack Phillips Raleigh, North Carolina, where I spent a beautiful day working in my basement, beginning to cover my Pietenpol. Got the right aileron covered and rib-stitched. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" Hey, Bert, Walt, Kip and the rest of you on this list. Please don't go! I've followed this list since its beginning with Steve Eldridge. Did I spell that right Steve? Any way, even though time and too much involvement in running the BCATP Museum, work and life in general limits my building time at present to zero, this list satisfies my builders urge. Bernard was a very capable designer. He experimented lots to get the Air Camper where it is today. I'm sure if he was still with us he would be applying his common sense engineering to the design and modifying it still. For those of you with questions. Study the plans and think. There is a lot there that is easy to miss with a casual glance. Then ask, someone here will know. Remember that Orin Hoopman was only a teenager when he drew the plans. Think about that. If you have the F&G manuals the plans and some good sense you can build this aircraft. Help from Tony B and sport aviation groups helps too, but Geeze guy's don't let anyone piss you off of this list. I'm not even sure I'll register my aircraft as a Pietenpol when it is finished, but somewhere on it will state and give credit to the inspired creations of B.H.Pietenpol that set the design. Hey Corky, remember when you almost gave up and sold yours? You have been a great inspiration to the rest of us! We are still hoping for a report on how much better it carries you solo. Have a great spring and summer. John ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:13 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Hello Mike Cuy: I noticed in the pictures you posted that it looks like you have the "homebuilders" tail wheel with 6" wheel. I have the same set up. When I saw in the Wix catalog that the 4" wheel is 1 1/2 lb lighter I bought one of those and replaced the 6". (wheel only) I seem to remember you once saying you wished you had built your engine mt. another inch or two longer. If you have the heavier wheel, the lighter wheel may just be the thing for you. Some one else figured it takes 13 lbs on the nose to off set 1 lb. on the tail. That sounds about right. The 4" wheel looks adequate for everything except plowed fields or badger holes. If you already have the 4 incher, disregard the above. Just a suggestion. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:06 PM PST US From: chris gomez --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: chris gomez I have a quick question for you guys who have built your landing gear. The main gear legs call out for 14ga tubing, which is .078 going by Aircraft Spruce catalog. Yet aircraft spruce only sells .065, and .095. So my question is, did you guys step up to the next size which would be .095? Thanks, Chris --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:10 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" thanks for leaving ME off of the list of buddies. Chris Bobka -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Good post, John. Occasionally I get irritated with the list when it seems we are more interested in politics than airplanes, but this list has served its purpose well. I think the quality of Piets being built is improving, and a lot of it is due to this list. I know I have made a number of friends through the list that I wouldn't have made otherwise, some of whom I've now met in person (Mike Cuy, John Hoffmann, Matt Paxton, Gene Hubbard, Gene Rambo, Dick Navratil, Ed Grentzer, PF Beck, Skip Gadd). The plans are more complete than they at first appear (they would have to be, in order to have the number of flying Pietenpols that exist today), but considerable thinking is required. That's one of the things I enjoy most about building this plane. I was watching Dick Navratil build a Piet tailsection at SNF last weekend. He did it totally different from the way I built mine. Equally good (maybe better in some respects) as mine but different. Both are to the plans. The plans just don't specify how you match up the different thicknesses of spruce in the tail structure, so some thinking is required. We're fortunate in this group that we don't have a lot of real purists who declare that everything has to be done exactly to the plans and you must use a model A Ford engine or it isn't a real Pietenpol. The diversity encourages innovation like the recent post on the differential hand brake - an outstanding idea in my opinion. Keep building, guys. Jack Phillips Raleigh, North Carolina, where I spent a beautiful day working in my basement, beginning to cover my Pietenpol. Got the right aileron covered and rib-stitched. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" Hey, Bert, Walt, Kip and the rest of you on this list. Please don't go! I've followed this list since its beginning with Steve Eldridge. Did I spell that right Steve? Any way, even though time and too much involvement in running the BCATP Museum, work and life in general limits my building time at present to zero, this list satisfies my builders urge. Bernard was a very capable designer. He experimented lots to get the Air Camper where it is today. I'm sure if he was still with us he would be applying his common sense engineering to the design and modifying it still. For those of you with questions. Study the plans and think. There is a lot there that is easy to miss with a casual glance. Then ask, someone here will know. Remember that Orin Hoopman was only a teenager when he drew the plans. Think about that. If you have the F&G manuals the plans and some good sense you can build this aircraft. Help from Tony B and sport aviation groups helps too, but Geeze guy's don't let anyone piss you off of this list. I'm not even sure I'll register my aircraft as a Pietenpol when it is finished, but somewhere on it will state and give credit to the inspired creations of B.H.Pietenpol that set the design. Hey Corky, remember when you almost gave up and sold yours? You have been a great inspiration to the rest of us! We are still hoping for a report on how much better it carries you solo. Have a great spring and summer. John ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:28 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Jack Phillips, do you know Eric Minnis around the Raleigh area? Chris -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Good post, John. Occasionally I get irritated with the list when it seems we are more interested in politics than airplanes, but this list has served its purpose well. I think the quality of Piets being built is improving, and a lot of it is due to this list. I know I have made a number of friends through the list that I wouldn't have made otherwise, some of whom I've now met in person (Mike Cuy, John Hoffmann, Matt Paxton, Gene Hubbard, Gene Rambo, Dick Navratil, Ed Grentzer, PF Beck, Skip Gadd). The plans are more complete than they at first appear (they would have to be, in order to have the number of flying Pietenpols that exist today), but considerable thinking is required. That's one of the things I enjoy most about building this plane. I was watching Dick Navratil build a Piet tailsection at SNF last weekend. He did it totally different from the way I built mine. Equally good (maybe better in some respects) as mine but different. Both are to the plans. The plans just don't specify how you match up the different thicknesses of spruce in the tail structure, so some thinking is required. We're fortunate in this group that we don't have a lot of real purists who declare that everything has to be done exactly to the plans and you must use a model A Ford engine or it isn't a real Pietenpol. The diversity encourages innovation like the recent post on the differential hand brake - an outstanding idea in my opinion. Keep building, guys. Jack Phillips Raleigh, North Carolina, where I spent a beautiful day working in my basement, beginning to cover my Pietenpol. Got the right aileron covered and rib-stitched. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" Hey, Bert, Walt, Kip and the rest of you on this list. Please don't go! I've followed this list since its beginning with Steve Eldridge. Did I spell that right Steve? Any way, even though time and too much involvement in running the BCATP Museum, work and life in general limits my building time at present to zero, this list satisfies my builders urge. Bernard was a very capable designer. He experimented lots to get the Air Camper where it is today. I'm sure if he was still with us he would be applying his common sense engineering to the design and modifying it still. For those of you with questions. Study the plans and think. There is a lot there that is easy to miss with a casual glance. Then ask, someone here will know. Remember that Orin Hoopman was only a teenager when he drew the plans. Think about that. If you have the F&G manuals the plans and some good sense you can build this aircraft. Help from Tony B and sport aviation groups helps too, but Geeze guy's don't let anyone piss you off of this list. I'm not even sure I'll register my aircraft as a Pietenpol when it is finished, but somewhere on it will state and give credit to the inspired creations of B.H.Pietenpol that set the design. Hey Corky, remember when you almost gave up and sold yours? You have been a great inspiration to the rest of us! We are still hoping for a report on how much better it carries you solo. Have a great spring and summer. John