Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Piet for sale (John Euchner)
2. 05:51 AM - 4130 vs. 4140 (Seibert Bob-r18643)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: machined parts online (Robert Haines)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: machined parts online (DJ Vegh)
5. 12:24 PM - Re: 4130 vs. 4140 (Les Schubert)
6. 01:07 PM - Re: 4130 vs. 4140 - emachineshop.com (DJ Vegh)
7. 01:44 PM - Re: 4130 vs. 4140 - emachineshop.com (John Carmen)
8. 10:14 PM - Re: Re: machined parts online (Gary McNeel, Jr.)
9. 10:48 PM - Re: Re: machined parts online (DJ Vegh)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Euchner" <johneuchner@charter.net>
Nice project in ATL area. Plane is at CZL. All built, except for firewall fwd an
some covering left to do. On legs with brakes $5800.
Call John @ 678/316-5854
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
I couldn't help but add one comment to the 4140 steel issue.
4140 is higher in carbon.
It is pretty much equivalent to 4130 except it is more susceptible to cracking
as a result of welding.
(It's also a little harder to drill, saw and file in the normalized condition)
If you are going to use 4140, please be sure to normalize or anneal any welds after
fabrication just to be safe.
You might also find that any laser cut edges are going to have a skin of very hard
metal at the cut edges. Its just a few thousandths thick and will grind off
easily but it is noticeably harder than the rest of the part.
Nothing really wrong with it and the resulting parts will actually be stronger
if done correctly.
Keep us posted on how these parts work out.
Bob Seibert
Finally done rib stitching!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk@hotmail.com>
DJ, they didn't have 4130 on the list so I chose 4140. True, 4140 is not
4130. Yield strength (normalized) for 4140 is 95,000psi where 4130 is
63,250psi. 4140 is a stiffer and harder. In compairison, there is a
difference between 4130 and 1020. 1020 (or is it 1015 that's used in the
design?) has a yield strenght (normalized) of 48,000psi and yes, there is
less difference between 1020 and 4130 as there is between 4130 and 4140.
Although, 4130 and 4140 both are in the same alloy family and possess
approximately the same corrosion resistance. But wait, 1018 is on their
list and that's about the same as 1020.
:)
Sorry, just trying to diffuse an anticipated debate on the "appropriate"
type of metal to use. My personal opinion (take is as you may) is that
these metal fitting are going to bolt into a piece of wood. Which will fail
first under the stress and vibration, the wood or the metal? Regardless of
corrosion resistance, you're going to paint the fittings anyway. I not
suggesting that we use this as a license to use inappropriate materials,
just to keep in mind what the material is being asked to do.
Robert Haines
P.S. - I agree with you, the prices given were really good. I disagree with
Jack Phillips, respectfully of course, that the big cost of machined parts
is the material. Given the quantities that we are talking about here, the
big costs are the initiall fixed costs of design and setup, which would
taken longer than fabrication of the order. That's why my part was $95 if I
bought one and $20 more if I bought ten.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I agree about the cost issue. My parts were about $60 for one but if I
bought 8 it went down to $9.
I noticed something though... I have 4 different parts I need cut. If I
drew each part up as a separate drawing/job the price was higher than if I
did one drawing with all the parts together. It was about half as much in
cost. I wonder if they will accept an order that way?
Guess I'll try and see.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
> P.S. - I agree with you, the prices given were really good. I disagree
with
> Jack Phillips, respectfully of course, that the big cost of machined parts
> is the material. Given the quantities that we are talking about here, the
> big costs are the initiall fixed costs of design and setup, which would
> taken longer than fabrication of the order. That's why my part was $95 if
I
> bought one and $20 more if I bought ten.
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 4130 vs. 4140 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert <leskarin@telus.net>
Guys
Having spent my career in pressure vessel manufacturing, according to ASME,
4140 is considered
to be NON weldable. There are no approved procedures to my knowledge for
this material due
to the probability of cracking. Other than that, I think it would be a
great choice, just don't
weld it!!!
At 05:51 AM 15/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643
><Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
>
>I couldn't help but add one comment to the 4140 steel issue.
>4140 is higher in carbon.
>It is pretty much equivalent to 4130 except it is more susceptible to
>cracking as a result of welding.
>(It's also a little harder to drill, saw and file in the normalized condition)
>
>If you are going to use 4140, please be sure to normalize or anneal any
>welds after fabrication just to be safe.
>You might also find that any laser cut edges are going to have a skin of
>very hard metal at the cut edges. Its just a few thousandths thick and
>will grind off easily but it is noticeably harder than the rest of the part.
>
>Nothing really wrong with it and the resulting parts will actually be
>stronger if done correctly.
>Keep us posted on how these parts work out.
>
>Bob Seibert
>Finally done rib stitching!
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 4130 vs. 4140 - emachineshop.com |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Les and others....
from my recent research I have learned you are correct.
4130 is a great choice because of it's strength and ease of welding. 4140 is stronger
but forget about welding it.
For my purposes 4140 will work great because I only need it for brackets that will
not require welding.
By the way... I just re-worked my drawings from emachineshop.com and the total
to laser cut all my wing attach parts is $110. I can't buy all the steel for
that price!!!
I'm placing my order this week.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
N74DV
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Schubert
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 vs. 4140
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert <leskarin@telus.net>
Guys
Having spent my career in pressure vessel manufacturing, according to ASME,
4140 is considered
to be NON weldable. There are no approved procedures to my knowledge for
this material due
to the probability of cracking. Other than that, I think it would be a
great choice, just don't
weld it!!!
At 05:51 AM 15/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643
><Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
>
>I couldn't help but add one comment to the 4140 steel issue.
>4140 is higher in carbon.
>It is pretty much equivalent to 4130 except it is more susceptible to
>cracking as a result of welding.
>(It's also a little harder to drill, saw and file in the normalized condition)
>
>If you are going to use 4140, please be sure to normalize or anneal any
>welds after fabrication just to be safe.
>You might also find that any laser cut edges are going to have a skin of
>very hard metal at the cut edges. Its just a few thousandths thick and
>will grind off easily but it is noticeably harder than the rest of the part.
>
>Nothing really wrong with it and the resulting parts will actually be
>stronger if done correctly.
>Keep us posted on how these parts work out.
>
>Bob Seibert
>Finally done rib stitching!
>
>
=
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 4130 vs. 4140 - emachineshop.com |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Carmen" <jlcarmen@bellsouth.net>
DJ
If 4140 is better than you may be able to go down one size and save weight
John C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 vs. 4140 - emachineshop.com
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> Les and others....
>
> from my recent research I have learned you are correct.
>
> 4130 is a great choice because of it's strength and ease of welding. 4140
is stronger but forget about welding it.
>
> For my purposes 4140 will work great because I only need it for brackets
that will not require welding.
>
> By the way... I just re-worked my drawings from emachineshop.com and the
total to laser cut all my wing attach parts is $110. I can't buy all the
steel for that price!!!
>
> I'm placing my order this week.
>
> DJ Vegh
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> N74DV
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Les Schubert
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 8:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 vs. 4140
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert <leskarin@telus.net>
>
> Guys
> Having spent my career in pressure vessel manufacturing, according to
ASME,
> 4140 is considered
> to be NON weldable. There are no approved procedures to my knowledge for
> this material due
> to the probability of cracking. Other than that, I think it would be a
> great choice, just don't
> weld it!!!
>
> At 05:51 AM 15/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643
> ><Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
> >
> >I couldn't help but add one comment to the 4140 steel issue.
> >4140 is higher in carbon.
> >It is pretty much equivalent to 4130 except it is more susceptible to
> >cracking as a result of welding.
> >(It's also a little harder to drill, saw and file in the normalized
condition)
> >
> >If you are going to use 4140, please be sure to normalize or anneal any
> >welds after fabrication just to be safe.
> >You might also find that any laser cut edges are going to have a skin
of
> >very hard metal at the cut edges. Its just a few thousandths thick and
> >will grind off easily but it is noticeably harder than the rest of the
part.
> >
> >Nothing really wrong with it and the resulting parts will actually be
> >stronger if done correctly.
> >Keep us posted on how these parts work out.
> >
> >Bob Seibert
> >Finally done rib stitching!
> >
> >
>
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Funny DJ. I was doing the same - putting several on the page. As the
software is beta, I am guessing this is a new service and they still have
issues like this to resolve.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:29 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: machined parts online
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> I agree about the cost issue. My parts were about $60 for one but if I
> bought 8 it went down to $9.
>
> I noticed something though... I have 4 different parts I need cut. If I
> drew each part up as a separate drawing/job the price was higher than if I
> did one drawing with all the parts together. It was about half as much in
> cost. I wonder if they will accept an order that way?
>
> Guess I'll try and see.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> www.raptoronline.com
> Mesa, AZ
>
>
> > P.S. - I agree with you, the prices given were really good. I disagree
> with
> > Jack Phillips, respectfully of course, that the big cost of
> machined parts
> > is the material. Given the quantities that we are talking
> about here, the
> > big costs are the initiall fixed costs of design and setup, which would
> > taken longer than fabrication of the order. That's why my part
> was $95 if
> I
> > bought one and $20 more if I bought ten.
> >
>
>
> This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for
> viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting
> provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution,
> visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I thought the same about it being beta and I shouldn't be allowed to do more
than one piece per drawing, but I emailed them and asked..... they said it
was ok to do it that way to save $$.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary McNeel, Jr." <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: machined parts online
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
<gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
>
> Funny DJ. I was doing the same - putting several on the page. As the
> software is beta, I am guessing this is a new service and they still have
> issues like this to resolve.
>
> -Gary
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:29 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: machined parts online
> >
> >
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> >
> > I agree about the cost issue. My parts were about $60 for one but if I
> > bought 8 it went down to $9.
> >
> > I noticed something though... I have 4 different parts I need cut. If
I
> > drew each part up as a separate drawing/job the price was higher than if
I
> > did one drawing with all the parts together. It was about half as much
in
> > cost. I wonder if they will accept an order that way?
> >
> > Guess I'll try and see.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > www.raptoronline.com
> > Mesa, AZ
> >
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