Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:01 AM - machined parts online (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 08:44 AM - Laser cut 4130 fittings (rhartwig11@juno.com)
3. 01:00 PM - J3 landing gear for GN1 (Jim Cooper)
4. 01:42 PM - Re: J3 landing gear for GN1 (DJ Vegh)
5. 03:35 PM - Re: machined parts online (Christian Bobka)
6. 06:02 PM - Re: machined parts online (John Carmen)
7. 07:59 PM - Re: machined parts online (Ted Brousseau)
8. 09:17 PM - Re: machined parts online (Christian Bobka)
9. 09:44 PM - Re: machined parts online (DJ Vegh)
Message 1
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Subject: | machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
DJ wrote-
>I shouldn't be allowed to do more than one piece per drawing, but I
>emailed them and asked..... they said it was ok to do it that way
>to save $$.
I don't know that this is the case, but in many processes involving
programming and setup of an automated process such as CNC operations, it is
far more efficient to prepare the drawing with parts 'nested' to minimize
waste and maximize tool travel efficiency. It may be that loading your
drawing and a sheet of stock into the cutting machine takes just as much
setup time for one part cut from one piece of stock as it does for a nested
array of parts all cut from one piece of stock. In an operation of any
size, the raw material for each part is pennies on the dollar of the total
cost; it's the setup, prep, labor, and handling that amounts to the bulk of
the cost of the part.
Please do let us know how you come out on this, DJ. It's a little bit
exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that produces
precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to minimize
waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human
ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S. in
a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane with
a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an
airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a
desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a thrill
to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and
the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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Subject: | Laser cut 4130 fittings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
I have a set of laser cut 4130 fittings and can tell you from personal
experience that 4130 fittings also get a hardened edge during the laser
cutting process. It is probably only a few ten thousands thick, but it
is important to remove it. A crack beginning in this very thin region
can continue through the part, especially if the part is bent. A few
strokes with abrasive will remove the surface. Test it with a file. If
the file doesn't bite you are not through the hardening. Bead or sand
blasting probably would also remove the hardened edge.
Dick H.
Message 3
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Subject: | J3 landing gear for GN1 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Cooper" <blugoos1@bellsouth.net>
We have acquired a J3 landing gear for our GN1 project and have installed a single
bungie shock cord on each strut with great diffieulty. Does anyone know if
this is sufficient, or should we install the second bungie shock cord on each
strut? It would sure simplify things if the GN1 is light enough so we don't have
to add that second bungie. Does a J3 have one or two bungies on each landing
gear strut?
Thanks to those of you who responded to my recent question about raising the wing
for easier access to the two cockpits. We are going ahead with raising the
wing 6". If it doesnt work, we can always lower it later. Really appreciate your
help. Thanks! Jim Cooper
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: J3 landing gear for GN1 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Jim,
I have a J-3 gear on my GN-1. There are 2 different sizes of bungee for J-3's
I think pre-1942 get one size and post 1942 get another. The AS&S catalog specifies
which one gets which.
Maybe you have the wrong set.... BUT I will say it is damn near impossible to get
both bungees on unless you have the proper tool. Any FBO who rents J-3's usually
has this tool in thier shop. I got mine done at Chandler Air Service here
in AZ for $65.
You may be able to get away with one bungee. I have wondered the same thing.
I will try my first flights with two and if it proves to be too stiff I'll remove
one and see..... probably another 18-24 months away from that point though.
DJ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cooper
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 9:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: J3 landing gear for GN1
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Cooper" <blugoos1@bellsouth.net>
We have acquired a J3 landing gear for our GN1 project and have installed a single
bungie shock cord on each strut with great diffieulty. Does anyone know
if this is sufficient, or should we install the second bungie shock cord on each
strut? It would sure simplify things if the GN1 is light enough so we don't
have to add that second bungie. Does a J3 have one or two bungies on each landing
gear strut?
Thanks to those of you who responded to my recent question about raising the
wing for easier access to the two cockpits. We are going ahead with raising the
wing 6". If it doesnt work, we can always lower it later. Really appreciate
your help. Thanks! Jim Cooper
=
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Message 5
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Subject: | machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
Guys,
I hope when you "nest" the parts for cutting that you take into account that
any bend must be across the grain of the steel. Otherwise you will invite
a certain crack. If you have two bends and each are 90 degrees to each
other then you can either choose which bend is more critical to structure
integrity or turn the piece so that both bends are 45 degrees to the grain.
Nesting for minimum steel waste may not produce the best part. Also, it is
common to make the parts a few thousands oversize in dimension knowing that
some hardened material will need to be ground off.
I do not believe that sandblasting will remove the hardened material as it
is too hard. One of the experts on the list may be able to shed more on
this.
chris bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
DJ wrote-
>I shouldn't be allowed to do more than one piece per drawing, but I
>emailed them and asked..... they said it was ok to do it that way
>to save $$.
I don't know that this is the case, but in many processes involving
programming and setup of an automated process such as CNC operations, it is
far more efficient to prepare the drawing with parts 'nested' to minimize
waste and maximize tool travel efficiency. It may be that loading your
drawing and a sheet of stock into the cutting machine takes just as much
setup time for one part cut from one piece of stock as it does for a nested
array of parts all cut from one piece of stock. In an operation of any
size, the raw material for each part is pennies on the dollar of the total
cost; it's the setup, prep, labor, and handling that amounts to the bulk of
the cost of the part.
Please do let us know how you come out on this, DJ. It's a little bit
exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that produces
precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to minimize
waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human
ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S. in
a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane with
a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an
airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a
desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a thrill
to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and
the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Carmen" <jlcarmen@bellsouth.net>
Sand blasting and the like will stress relive the part. do it before and
after the part is bent. and add a larger radius to the bend that is going
with the grain. Remember not to use the sand that did steel on aluminum for
the metal particles will get in the aluminum and corrode it.
My two cents if anyone cares.
John C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
<bobka@charter.net>
>
> Guys,
>
> I hope when you "nest" the parts for cutting that you take into account
that
> any bend must be across the grain of the steel. Otherwise you will
invite
> a certain crack. If you have two bends and each are 90 degrees to each
> other then you can either choose which bend is more critical to structure
> integrity or turn the piece so that both bends are 45 degrees to the
grain.
> Nesting for minimum steel waste may not produce the best part. Also, it
is
> common to make the parts a few thousands oversize in dimension knowing
that
> some hardened material will need to be ground off.
>
> I do not believe that sandblasting will remove the hardened material as it
> is too hard. One of the experts on the list may be able to shed more on
> this.
>
> chris bobka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar
> Zuniga
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> DJ wrote-
>
> >I shouldn't be allowed to do more than one piece per drawing, but I
> >emailed them and asked..... they said it was ok to do it that way
> >to save $$.
>
> I don't know that this is the case, but in many processes involving
> programming and setup of an automated process such as CNC operations, it
is
> far more efficient to prepare the drawing with parts 'nested' to minimize
> waste and maximize tool travel efficiency. It may be that loading your
> drawing and a sheet of stock into the cutting machine takes just as much
> setup time for one part cut from one piece of stock as it does for a
nested
> array of parts all cut from one piece of stock. In an operation of any
> size, the raw material for each part is pennies on the dollar of the total
> cost; it's the setup, prep, labor, and handling that amounts to the bulk
of
> the cost of the part.
>
> Please do let us know how you come out on this, DJ. It's a little bit
> exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that
produces
> precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to
minimize
> waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human
> ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S.
in
> a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane
with
> a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an
> airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a
> desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a
thrill
> to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and
> the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
Hmmmm, will a plane made with CNC laser cut metal parts still be able to be
called a Pietenpol? Inquiring minds want to know.....
Bert, where are you?
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online
> It's a little bit
> exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that
produces
> precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to
minimize
> waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human
> ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S.
in
> a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane
with
> a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an
> airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a
> desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a
thrill
> to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and
> the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh?
>
> Oscar Zuniga>
Message 8
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Subject: | machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@charter.net>
Hmmmm. Since CNC processes would be used, I contend that we would have to
refer to at as CN-1.
Chris Bobka
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
Hmmmm, will a plane made with CNC laser cut metal parts still be able to be
called a Pietenpol? Inquiring minds want to know.....
Bert, where are you?
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online
> It's a little bit
> exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that
produces
> precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to
minimize
> waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human
> ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S.
in
> a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane
with
> a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an
> airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a
> desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a
thrill
> to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and
> the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh?
>
> Oscar Zuniga>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: machined parts online |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
hahaha ... a CN-1
good one.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.raptoronline.com
Mesa, AZ
do not archive
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