---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/16/03: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:01 AM - machined parts online (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 08:44 AM - Laser cut 4130 fittings (rhartwig11@juno.com) 3. 01:00 PM - J3 landing gear for GN1 (Jim Cooper) 4. 01:42 PM - Re: J3 landing gear for GN1 (DJ Vegh) 5. 03:35 PM - Re: machined parts online (Christian Bobka) 6. 06:02 PM - Re: machined parts online (John Carmen) 7. 07:59 PM - Re: machined parts online (Ted Brousseau) 8. 09:17 PM - Re: machined parts online (Christian Bobka) 9. 09:44 PM - Re: machined parts online (DJ Vegh) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:34 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" DJ wrote- >I shouldn't be allowed to do more than one piece per drawing, but I >emailed them and asked..... they said it was ok to do it that way >to save $$. I don't know that this is the case, but in many processes involving programming and setup of an automated process such as CNC operations, it is far more efficient to prepare the drawing with parts 'nested' to minimize waste and maximize tool travel efficiency. It may be that loading your drawing and a sheet of stock into the cutting machine takes just as much setup time for one part cut from one piece of stock as it does for a nested array of parts all cut from one piece of stock. In an operation of any size, the raw material for each part is pennies on the dollar of the total cost; it's the setup, prep, labor, and handling that amounts to the bulk of the cost of the part. Please do let us know how you come out on this, DJ. It's a little bit exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that produces precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to minimize waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S. in a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane with a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a thrill to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut 4130 fittings From: rhartwig11@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com I have a set of laser cut 4130 fittings and can tell you from personal experience that 4130 fittings also get a hardened edge during the laser cutting process. It is probably only a few ten thousands thick, but it is important to remove it. A crack beginning in this very thin region can continue through the part, especially if the part is bent. A few strokes with abrasive will remove the surface. Test it with a file. If the file doesn't bite you are not through the hardening. Bead or sand blasting probably would also remove the hardened edge. Dick H. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:52 PM PST US From: "Jim Cooper" Subject: Pietenpol-List: J3 landing gear for GN1 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Cooper" We have acquired a J3 landing gear for our GN1 project and have installed a single bungie shock cord on each strut with great diffieulty. Does anyone know if this is sufficient, or should we install the second bungie shock cord on each strut? It would sure simplify things if the GN1 is light enough so we don't have to add that second bungie. Does a J3 have one or two bungies on each landing gear strut? Thanks to those of you who responded to my recent question about raising the wing for easier access to the two cockpits. We are going ahead with raising the wing 6". If it doesnt work, we can always lower it later. Really appreciate your help. Thanks! Jim Cooper ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:30 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: J3 landing gear for GN1 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Jim, I have a J-3 gear on my GN-1. There are 2 different sizes of bungee for J-3's I think pre-1942 get one size and post 1942 get another. The AS&S catalog specifies which one gets which. Maybe you have the wrong set.... BUT I will say it is damn near impossible to get both bungees on unless you have the proper tool. Any FBO who rents J-3's usually has this tool in thier shop. I got mine done at Chandler Air Service here in AZ for $65. You may be able to get away with one bungee. I have wondered the same thing. I will try my first flights with two and if it proves to be too stiff I'll remove one and see..... probably another 18-24 months away from that point though. DJ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Cooper To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: J3 landing gear for GN1 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Cooper" We have acquired a J3 landing gear for our GN1 project and have installed a single bungie shock cord on each strut with great diffieulty. Does anyone know if this is sufficient, or should we install the second bungie shock cord on each strut? It would sure simplify things if the GN1 is light enough so we don't have to add that second bungie. Does a J3 have one or two bungies on each landing gear strut? Thanks to those of you who responded to my recent question about raising the wing for easier access to the two cockpits. We are going ahead with raising the wing 6". If it doesnt work, we can always lower it later. Really appreciate your help. Thanks! Jim Cooper = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:17 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Guys, I hope when you "nest" the parts for cutting that you take into account that any bend must be across the grain of the steel. Otherwise you will invite a certain crack. If you have two bends and each are 90 degrees to each other then you can either choose which bend is more critical to structure integrity or turn the piece so that both bends are 45 degrees to the grain. Nesting for minimum steel waste may not produce the best part. Also, it is common to make the parts a few thousands oversize in dimension knowing that some hardened material will need to be ground off. I do not believe that sandblasting will remove the hardened material as it is too hard. One of the experts on the list may be able to shed more on this. chris bobka -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" DJ wrote- >I shouldn't be allowed to do more than one piece per drawing, but I >emailed them and asked..... they said it was ok to do it that way >to save $$. I don't know that this is the case, but in many processes involving programming and setup of an automated process such as CNC operations, it is far more efficient to prepare the drawing with parts 'nested' to minimize waste and maximize tool travel efficiency. It may be that loading your drawing and a sheet of stock into the cutting machine takes just as much setup time for one part cut from one piece of stock as it does for a nested array of parts all cut from one piece of stock. In an operation of any size, the raw material for each part is pennies on the dollar of the total cost; it's the setup, prep, labor, and handling that amounts to the bulk of the cost of the part. Please do let us know how you come out on this, DJ. It's a little bit exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that produces precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to minimize waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S. in a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane with a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a thrill to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:23 PM PST US From: "John Carmen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Carmen" Sand blasting and the like will stress relive the part. do it before and after the part is bent. and add a larger radius to the bend that is going with the grain. Remember not to use the sand that did steel on aluminum for the metal particles will get in the aluminum and corrode it. My two cents if anyone cares. John C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" > > Guys, > > I hope when you "nest" the parts for cutting that you take into account that > any bend must be across the grain of the steel. Otherwise you will invite > a certain crack. If you have two bends and each are 90 degrees to each > other then you can either choose which bend is more critical to structure > integrity or turn the piece so that both bends are 45 degrees to the grain. > Nesting for minimum steel waste may not produce the best part. Also, it is > common to make the parts a few thousands oversize in dimension knowing that > some hardened material will need to be ground off. > > I do not believe that sandblasting will remove the hardened material as it > is too hard. One of the experts on the list may be able to shed more on > this. > > chris bobka > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar > Zuniga > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > DJ wrote- > > >I shouldn't be allowed to do more than one piece per drawing, but I > >emailed them and asked..... they said it was ok to do it that way > >to save $$. > > I don't know that this is the case, but in many processes involving > programming and setup of an automated process such as CNC operations, it is > far more efficient to prepare the drawing with parts 'nested' to minimize > waste and maximize tool travel efficiency. It may be that loading your > drawing and a sheet of stock into the cutting machine takes just as much > setup time for one part cut from one piece of stock as it does for a nested > array of parts all cut from one piece of stock. In an operation of any > size, the raw material for each part is pennies on the dollar of the total > cost; it's the setup, prep, labor, and handling that amounts to the bulk of > the cost of the part. > > Please do let us know how you come out on this, DJ. It's a little bit > exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that produces > precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to minimize > waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human > ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S. in > a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane with > a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an > airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a > desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a thrill > to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and > the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh? > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:51 PM PST US From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Hmmmm, will a plane made with CNC laser cut metal parts still be able to be called a Pietenpol? Inquiring minds want to know..... Bert, where are you? Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online > It's a little bit > exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that produces > precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to minimize > waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human > ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S. in > a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane with > a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an > airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a > desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a thrill > to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and > the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh? > > Oscar Zuniga> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:18 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Hmmmm. Since CNC processes would be used, I contend that we would have to refer to at as CN-1. Chris Bobka -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted Brousseau Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Hmmmm, will a plane made with CNC laser cut metal parts still be able to be called a Pietenpol? Inquiring minds want to know..... Bert, where are you? Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online > It's a little bit > exciting when you think about it: an automated cutting process that produces > precision fittings from drawings prepared electronically, nested to minimize > waste and maximize accuracy, ordered and paid for online without one human > ever talking directly with another, packaged and shipped across the U.S. in > a few days, brought to your door, and ready to install on your airplane with > a little light smoothing and some protective primer and paint. All for an > airplane design that is almost as old as flying itself! In a way it's a > desecration not to make the parts by hand, but in another way it's a thrill > to see how we can use modern methods to bring the drum of taut fabric and > the hum of flying wires back into our lives, eh? > > Oscar Zuniga> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:05 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: machined parts online --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" hahaha ... a CN-1 good one. DJ Vegh N74DV www.raptoronline.com Mesa, AZ do not archive This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit .