---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/24/03: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:52 AM - Re: Wing LE & Landing gear placement (clif) 2. 05:39 AM - Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo (Ken Rickards) 3. 07:17 AM - Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. (John Carmen) 4. 07:40 AM - Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. (DJ Vegh) 5. 07:44 AM - Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. (DJ Vegh) 6. 07:57 AM - Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. (DJ Vegh) 7. 08:07 AM - Re: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo (Ken Rickards) 8. 10:12 AM - Re: To Flop or Not (ANNCARLEK@aol.com) 9. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: To Flop or Not (Michael D Cuy) 10. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: To Flop or Not (DJ Vegh) 11. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: To Flop or Not (Isablcorky@aol.com) 12. 11:20 AM - aileron hinges (Oscar Zuniga) 13. 01:05 PM - Flop...or not (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 14. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: To Flop or Not (cat_designs@juno.com) 15. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: To Flop or Not (Waytogopiet@aol.com) 16. 05:23 PM - Re: Flop...or not (walter evans) 17. 08:21 PM - Straight Axle question for Pioneers (Ted Brousseau) 18. 08:38 PM - Re-Certify NX770CG (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 09:00 PM - Re: Re-Certify NX770CG (Christian Bobka) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:22 AM PST US From: clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing LE & Landing gear placement --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif Flying and Glider manual,1932,Piet issue,page17. Landing gear drawing. Bernard specified spruce legs with ash bottom crossmember that axle strikes when shock cords pulls it back down. If you used ash, in order to keep the weight reasonable, you would have to reduce the leg cross section. The thinner the leg the more susceptible it is to bending sideways and breaking as it becomes a "long" column instead of a "short" one. The same thing applies here as in the struts. We are putting jury struts on to lessen the possibility of this same side bending and ultimate failure. The greater thickness and width on the spruce legs increases the bending resistance. In bats and hammer handles, the direction of force and it's resultant shock has to be parallel to the grain. I'll bet that if you examined those broken bats, you'd find it had been held wrong with the grain flat to the shock. I know, they're pros, but in the heat of the moment----. A corollery to this- check the handle when buying a handled tool and get the one with the grain parallel to the direction of force. Also a "thin" delicate looking handle as on most antique tools reduces the shock to your wrist tendons. Take a look at that old ball peen you probably have lying about, then a cheapo new one. Also landing gear is in compression, tip bows and trees are in bending.. Ash in compression is only 22 % stronger than spruce/ square area, and 50% heavier. I suppose in the end weight's not a biggie, there's not that much material in those legs anyway. As an old prof of mine used to say," Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice." Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > If spruce was that great at resisting loads, hammer handles would be made of > Spruce. Ash is much stronger but it is heavier. Many wing tip bows are made > of ash as it can be bend and still retain it strength. The harness trees of > wagons are made of ash for the same reason. > Cy Galley - MVR-AACA www.aaca.org/mvr > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing LE & Landing gear placement > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rambog@erols.com" > > > > > One visit to a major league ball game should give you an idea of the shock > > load capacity of ash, I saw four or five broken bats in one Yankees game a > > couple of weeks ago. While your gear is undoubtedly strong, spruce is > > still more resiliant and, I'll bet, would take a bending side load without > > breaking. > > > > Gene > > do not archive > > > > Original Message: > > ----------------- > > From: John Dilatush dilatush@amigo.net > > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:25:45 -0600 > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing LE & Landing gear placement > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gene Rambo" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing LE & Landing gear placement > > ++++++++++++++++++ > > Gene, > > > > I used Ash and laminated two 1/2" pieces together to make the legs of my > > straight axle gear. The reason for using ash was the fact that it is > > commonly used in axe handles and extremely resiliant to shock loads. > > > > Two off runway excursions by me (due to my "superior piloting" skills!) > > through rough buffalo grass intersperced with gopher holes and cow pies at > > 30 mph,has shown that the gear holds up very well to this kind of a stress > > test. > > > > I highly recomend the use of ash, it certainly saved mine! > > > > John > > ++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" > > > > > > NO, no, ash is strong but brittle! Use spruce. > > > > > > Gene > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ted Brousseau" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing LE & Landing gear placement > > > > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Mike, > > > > > > > > One more question on landing gear. What wood did you use for the > > landing > > > > gear struts? Plans call for spruce. I am inclined to use ash. > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Michael D Cuy" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing LE & Landing gear placement > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" > > > > > > > > > >Mike, > > > > > >Thanks for that info on placement of the gear. Could you add where > > the > > > > > >front of the wing, or CG falls in relation to the fire wall? This > > > would > > > > be > > > > > >most helpful for all people no matter which version they were > > building. > > > > > > > > > > Ted- I confirmed over the weekend that my axle is exactly 20" behind > > the > > > > > firewall (just like Sky Gypsy) but with my fuselage > > > > > being the shorter 1933 version and Frank's Sky Gypsy being the > longer > > > 1966 > > > > > version. Both handle just fine on the ground and during takeoff and > > > > > landing with this gear placement. I use brakes, Frank does > > > > > not. (tailskid) I'd have to go back out and measure my wing LE aft > > of > > > > the > > > > > fuselage but I can tell you that my wing is slanted back 4" aft of > > > > vertical > > > > > with regard to the cabane upright struts. We all have to place the > > wing > > > > in > > > > > a position that suites our needs best--engine choice, pilot weight, > > tail > > > > > weight, etc. Even among the 65 Cont. crowd I can cite 3 different > > Piets > > > > w/ > > > > > 3 different wing slant-back measurements. Steve E. in Utah has his > > > wing > > > > > back SIX inches. He's bigger than me by a bit. Mine is 4" aft, > and > > > thin > > > > > Frank w/ no tailwheel has his wing back something like 2.5 or > 3"....so > > > > > gotta pick the number that puts your CG right. > > > > > > > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:26 AM PST US From: Ken Rickards Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo nd if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards D.J. I'm not ready for any of these parts yet. Would it be possible for you to save the drawings for use by the group at a later date? Ken Gn1 2992 -----Original Message----- From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday. Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from .080" 4140 and also bent where applicable. I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested. Parts will be: 3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both sides of rudder) $20 per set. 1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20 1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15 If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will be able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the cost per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc... let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you can pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP! DJ Vegh N74DV www.raptoronline.com Mesa, AZ This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:09 AM PST US From: "John Carmen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Carmen" I want Titanium ~!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary McNeel" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel" > > DJ, did you ask them if they would do 4130. I noticed that somewhere in the > program you could make a special request with your order for different > materials. It would sure be worth a note to them. > > -Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond > if you need any. > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday. > > Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting > some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from .080" > 4140 and also bent where applicable. > > I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested. > > Parts will be: > > 3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both sides > of rudder) $20 per set. > > 1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20 > > 1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15 > > If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will be > able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the cost > per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc... > let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you can > pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP! > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > www.raptoronline.com > Mesa, AZ > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by > Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > . > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:27 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Gary I am sure they can get 4130. I'll bet the cost goes up about 15% though. Thier readily available materials are cheap because they have them in quantity. 4140 is good for parts not requiring welding though. But, I'll see what they say about 4130. DJ Vegh N74DV www.raptoronline.com Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary McNeel" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel" > > DJ, did you ask them if they would do 4130. I noticed that somewhere in the > program you could make a special request with your order for different > materials. It would sure be worth a note to them. > > -Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond > if you need any. > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday. > > Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting > some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from .080" > 4140 and also bent where applicable. > > I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested. > > Parts will be: > > 3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both sides > of rudder) $20 per set. > > 1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20 > > 1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15 > > If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will be > able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the cost > per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc... > let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you can > pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP! > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > www.raptoronline.com > Mesa, AZ > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by > Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > . > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:06 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Ken, I'll certainly save the drawings. I'll also save the extra parts I will be getting, but I'd really like to get rid of them ASAP. Tell ya what... I'll let you have the steering horns, elevator horns & walking beam supports for $40. It'll be impossible to beat that price if you have them cut on your own on a small run order. lemme know, DJ Vegh N74DV www.raptoronline.com Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Rickards" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo nd if you need any. > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards > > D.J. I'm not ready for any of these parts yet. Would it be possible for > you to save the drawings for use by the group at a later date? > > Ken > > Gn1 2992 > > -----Original Message----- > From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com] > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:07 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" they have it..... but cost would go up about 900% ! DJ Vegh N74DV www.raptoronline.com Mesa, AZ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Carmen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Carmen" > > I want Titanium ~!!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary McNeel" > To: > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond > if you need any. > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel" > > > > > DJ, did you ask them if they would do 4130. I noticed that somewhere in > the > > program you could make a special request with your order for different > > materials. It would sure be worth a note to them. > > > > -Gary > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond > > if you need any. > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > > I will be placing my order for some lasercut parts for my GN-1 Friday. > > > > Because of the way the cut list is working on my order, I will be getting > > some extra parts that I will not need. These parts are laser cut from > .080" > > 4140 and also bent where applicable. > > > > I will have them available for a cheap price to those interested. > > > > Parts will be: > > > > 3 extra sets - tail wheel steering horn left and right (bolts to both > sides > > of rudder) $20 per set. > > > > 1 extra set - elevator horns left and right $20 > > > > 1 extra set - walking beam support brackets left and right $15 > > > > If there are any parts any of you GN-1 builders need let me know. I will > be > > able to add it to my cut list. The more parts I have cut the lower the > cost > > per part is..... so... rudder horns, aileron horns, brace lugs, etc... > > let me know and I'll draw them up and put them in with my order.... you > can > > pretty much plan on about $15 per part... so let me know ASAP! > > > > DJ Vegh > > N74DV > > www.raptoronline.com > > Mesa, AZ > > > > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by > > Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > > information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > > . > > > > > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:18 AM PST US From: Ken Rickards Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo nd if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards Done Deal. Let me know when they are ready and how you would like payment. Ken Gn1 2992 -----Original Message----- From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com] Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond if you need any. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Ken, I'll certainly save the drawings. I'll also save the extra parts I will be getting, but I'd really like to get rid of them ASAP. Tell ya what... I'll let you have the steering horns, elevator horns & walking beam supports for $40. It'll be impossible to beat that price if you have them cut on your own on a small run order. lemme know, DJ Vegh N74DV www.raptoronline.com Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Rickards" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respo nd if you need any. > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards > > D.J. I'm not ready for any of these parts yet. Would it be possible for > you to save the drawings for use by the group at a later date? > > Ken > > Gn1 2992 > > -----Original Message----- > From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com] > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Laser cut GN-1 parts available - please respond This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:52 AM PST US From: ANNCARLEK@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ANNCARLEK@aol.com There is a big pile of ribs in the hangar, and I'm starting on the Center Section. The flop shown on the Scout plans would really be nice, since it opens up on the left side a little too. But that isn't compatible with the three piece wing. So the flop can only be about 28 inches wide. I could make it hinge like the ailerons, or it could be bigger and hinged at the rear spar. Any comments? Carl at Compton, with a varnished fuse and tail feathers! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:24 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Carl-- As long as your 3 pce wing doesn't have dihedral I don't see why you couldn't join your center section flop to a bit of your left/and or right wing to flop with it. You could fair over the gap just like you'll have to fair over the wing/cc gap with aluminum you know ? You can also hinge it wherever you want. Just put in false spars like the aileron construction and use those for the hinge point. This is a really neat idea I think. Bill Rewey made his CC wider than plans (but kept the cabanes the same width as the fuselage so his cutout is nice and wide. You could do the same unless your CC is already built. It would give you a bit longer wing is all. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:18 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I'm hinging mine at the rear spar on my GN-1. I'm 6'4" and need all the room I can get. I've also raised my wing 2" via longer cabanes. DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: ANNCARLEK@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ANNCARLEK@aol.com There is a big pile of ribs in the hangar, and I'm starting on the Center Section. The flop shown on the Scout plans would really be nice, since it opens up on the left side a little too. But that isn't compatible with the three piece wing. So the flop can only be about 28 inches wide. I could make it hinge like the ailerons, or it could be bigger and hinged at the rear spar. Any comments? Carl at Compton, with a varnished fuse and tail feathers! = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:31 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Carl, I built a flop for 41CC and it works well for a short tubby ole man, even built a 5/8 pipe step for help. Its built with metal brackets attached to the rear spar, a 1/2 in fake spar aft of the rear spar about 3 or 4 inches to allow sufficient room for pulleys, cables and turnbuckles. On this are attached two handles, left and right, to assist an ole tubby pilot for in and out. On the matching flop side are two oblong holes to pass these handles when the flop is down. This flop is piano hinged. Underneath it is secured in flying position with two common french door floor slide stops. On RePiet I am not building a flop as the fuse will be 28 in wde and the center section probably 32 in wide with slant cabane struts. It will have a cut out ala Mike Cuy and with those widths there should be no problem in or out for an ole tubby pilot. Hopes this helps and not confuse. Corky in La with completed wing and feather parts. P.S. One very important construction tip. On the round turtledeck aft of the rear cockpit be sure and double up the plywood surfaces so when you stand up to get out you may sit on the turtledeck, swing your legs around and slide down peacefully to Mother Earth without hearing some spltting, popping or cracking. BPH must have been some long legged Yankee. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:55 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: aileron hinges --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Talking about using piano hinges for ailerons (and other control surfaces): For those who might raise the question about rolled vs. extruded piano hinges, the subject has come up on various other discussion groups and there seems to be no structural reason to require the use of the more expensive extruded hinges. While commonly-accepted "aviation practice" would seem to indicate extruded hinges are preferable since they can't possibly open and release the hinge pin, in fact the rolled hinges are mighty strong anyway. Go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc.html and scroll down just past the article on submerged ailerons to see a little test that Mark Langford did to prove this to himself (if you see the yellow Lionheart, you've scrolled down too far). Once again, if Mr. Pietenpol successfully used hardware store strap hinges for the control surfaces on his airplane, I'd say we could safely use rolled (or extruded) piano hinges on ours and do just fine. As mentioned, some consideration has to be given to means of attachment so the attachment hardware isn't too close to the edge of the wood member, but this shouldn't be a big problem. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:45 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop...or not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) I was going to build my cs with a flop extending one rib to the left as Mike C. described, but in the end, I opted for no flop at all in favor of the weight savings. No cut out either after the talk about the erosion of flight performance. It seamed that I worked forever on that #%&* cs doing it the simple way. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com ......Bill Rewey made his CC wider than plans (but kept the cabanes the same width as the fuselage so his cutout is nice and wide. You could do the same unless your CC is already built. It would give you a bit longer wing is all. Mike C. I believe Steve Eldrige also widened his center section and has a wider flop but shorted the wing panes by the appropriate amount. Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:46 PM PST US From: Waytogopiet@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop or Not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Waytogopiet@aol.com I used strap hinges on mine,ended the c/s gap fairings at the rear spar and extended the flop 2" outboard on either side to within1/4" of the root rib. (leave room for the fabric) Total flop width 31". Flop locks with slide pins. Not a lot wider, but it makes a big difference in climbing in. And my cabanes have not been lengthened. Don ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:31 PM PST US From: "walter evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop...or not --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" Leon, Just a note to say that now that I am flying, there is no way that I could get into my Piet with out the cutout. My wing is back 3" and I am 210# 6'3". walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop...or not > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > I was going to build my cs with a flop extending one rib to the left as > Mike C. described, but in the end, I opted for no flop at all in favor > of the weight savings. No cut out either after the talk about the > erosion of flight performance. It seamed that I worked forever on that > #%&* cs doing it the simple way. Leon S. > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:06 PM PST US From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle question for Pioneers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Just wanted a field report before I order my axle material. I am building the wooden straight axle version. The plans call for 12 gage (.11) x 1.5". Is this what you used? And, if so, are there any regrets? I remember Steve E reporting that he had landing gear buckeling because of too thin of tubing. Just wanted a PIREP if there were any. Thanks, Ted Brousseau Working like crazy and jealous of Walt flying his hours off. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:06 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re-Certify NX770CG --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Well, it looks as though I have to re-certify my plane. This is not the news I was hoping for. After a thorough inspection by an actual FAA guy last January, he passed it with flying colors, and gave me a 40 hr Phase 1 test period (non certified engine, and a home built prop that I made) and a 30 mile radius around Benton. I then entered Phase 1 test period, and now have about 26 hrs flight time. The ol' Model A engine didn't live up to my expectations, so I bit the bullet and about 5 months ago, began to change it out for a Continental A65. It seems there is no accommodations during this Phase 1 to allow for major alterations. The ironic thing is that once the hours are flown off, and Phase II is entered, there is accommodations for a major alterations, and a 5 hr test period is required, during which Phase 1 is re-entered. In other words, if I would have flown the Model A for 14 more hours, and signed it off to enter Phase II, I could have changed it out for a Continental A65, and fly for 5 hours, without the need to re-certify. This is a MAJOR set back for me. I now have to pay a DAR $500 to get back in the air, and start my 40 hours of flight tests all over again because I'm building my prop for the Continental. I could possibly get the test period down to 25 hours, If I spend another $700 to $1000 for a prop. This thing has been a Money Pit. This also means that I probably won't be able to make the flight to Brodhead / Oshkosh / Wheeling W V this year. I've been planning on that flight for YEARS!! It seems as though I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for the past year, but all I've been doing is spinning my wheels. Sorry about the whining, but I just had to vent...thanks for listening. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:22 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re-Certify NX770CG --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Chuck, If you had flown one evening a weekend or two ago you could have picked up an hour of flying when the clocks rolled forward for DST. Looks like no easy way around this one but to put the A back in and keep taxiing around the airport for 14 more hours but always with the intention of flight so it is logable. chris -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re-Certify NX770CG --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Well, it looks as though I have to re-certify my plane. This is not the news I was hoping for. After a thorough inspection by an actual FAA guy last January, he passed it with flying colors, and gave me a 40 hr Phase 1 test period (non certified engine, and a home built prop that I made) and a 30 mile radius around Benton. I then entered Phase 1 test period, and now have about 26 hrs flight time. The ol' Model A engine didn't live up to my expectations, so I bit the bullet and about 5 months ago, began to change it out for a Continental A65. It seems there is no accommodations during this Phase 1 to allow for major alterations. The ironic thing is that once the hours are flown off, and Phase II is entered, there is accommodations for a major alterations, and a 5 hr test period is required, during which Phase 1 is re-entered. In other words, if I would have flown the Model A for 14 more hours, and signed it off to enter Phase II, I could have changed it out for a Continental A65, and fly for 5 hours, without the need to re-certify. This is a MAJOR set back for me. I now have to pay a DAR $500 to get back in the air, and start my 40 hours of flight tests all over again because I'm building my prop for the Continental. I could possibly get the test period down to 25 hours, If I spend another $700 to $1000 for a prop. This thing has been a Money Pit. This also means that I probably won't be able to make the flight to Brodhead / Oshkosh / Wheeling W V this year. I've been planning on that flight for YEARS!! It seems as though I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for the past year, but all I've been doing is spinning my wheels. Sorry about the whining, but I just had to vent...thanks for listening. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG