---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/28/03: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:15 AM - oil lines to manifold on a Pietenpol conversion (D. Engelkenjohn) 2. 10:41 AM - straight axle builders and the home shopping network (Michael D Cuy) 3. 10:42 AM - I meant 0.20" wall thickness (Michael D Cuy) 4. 12:50 PM - Harbor tool (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 5. 01:03 PM - Fuse change from plans (Isablcorky@aol.com) 6. 02:24 PM - "A" oil pressure gauge (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS) 7. 02:45 PM - Re: Fuse change from plans (Richard Navratril) 8. 03:24 PM - Re: straight axle builders and the home shopping network (John Carmen) 9. 04:16 PM - Re: Fuse change from plans (Les Schubert) 10. 06:04 PM - Re: Cutting 4130 (George Allen) 11. 08:15 PM - Re: I meant 0.20" wall thickness (Ted Brousseau) 12. 09:07 PM - Re: Fuse change from plans (Doyle K. Combs) 13. 09:10 PM - Re: Fuse change from plans (Graham Hansen) 14. 09:26 PM - Re: GN-1 landing gear (DJ Vegh) 15. 09:30 PM - Re: I meant 0.20" wall thickness (Richard Navratril) 16. 11:26 PM - Re: Fuse change from plans (clif) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:06 AM PST US From: "D. Engelkenjohn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil lines to manifold on a Pietenpol conversion --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn" Thanks for the replies, I didn't make myself clear (Again) I guess. I am using the Pietenpol conversion of the corvair engine. As opposed to the no fan conversion. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:16 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders and the home shopping network --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Group--copying from Frank P.'s Sky Gypsy, I made my axle out of 1.5" OD x 0.200 4130 tube. If any of you get to the point where you need to thread the ends of your axle for either the hex-castle nut or round on the end let me know. I purchased the 1 1/2-16 die and have a die handle that I can loan out (threading oil not included:) You'll need a beefy vise to hold your axle and some Wheaties but overall not a big job. Just got off line from http://www.harborfreight.com/ and ordered some new hand tools. You guys should see the junk tools that have been serving me for the past umpteen years. I mean I have junk for tools. Seriously. I finally bought some new stuff and found that Harbor Freight has been a decent source for the builder on a budget. (and most of us are minus the airline pilots:)) But they earned it ! I almost feel like somebody hooked on ordering things off of the home shopping network, but doing it on the web !!! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:39 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Axle material used: 1.5" OD x whatever you want x 0.20 wall thickness. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:41 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Hi Mike C: I know what you are saying about tools. I was in the same boat for years. For the years that I lived in a small town, my only source for tools was Craftsman. Good tools, but at a price. Then Harbor Tool put a retail store in Co. Springs. I now had an excuse to go visit my kids in Co, Springs twice as often. They have since put in a store in Wichita that I hit it once a month on EAA night. Another good source for tools is a traveling outfit called Homier Dist. (HDC Tool) They are from Indiana.They come to various towns and typically set up in a community building and stay for 3 or 4 days selling the same stuff as Harbor, but at much better prices. It's all Chinese slave labor, sweat shop made stuff, and all profits probably are going into the development of the nukes that they will one day use against us, but what are you gonna do? I noticed from the web sight that Harbor tool has a bunch of stores in OH. Leon S. Actively looking for a house with a shop. so I can get all of those tools out of storage. Do not Archive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:43 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Pieters, Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any objections to what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the traditional " BHP didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you in the know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard. Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the drawings for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead of 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back in rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll borrow that inch from one of the rear bays. Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I will have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no problem. A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches. Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of the fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance. Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be nice. Corky in beautiful Louisiana ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:31 PM PST US From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" oil pressure gauge --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Scary or not, isn't there something in our federal regulations about an oil pressure gauge being a required item???????? If not, I'll declutter my overcrowded panel tomorrow! Larry ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:45 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratril" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" Hey Corky If BHP were kickin around today the Piet would be going thru some wild experimentations. I'm not one to comment on the changes in width. But on my second fuse I got an additional 9.5" on length in the rear cockpit by moving the seat back 1", reclining the seat 1.5", and using the original plan for the bridge deck between cockpits. If you want to check it out go to www.cposeminars.com/plane01.html This is a bit of a deviation from the piet plan, no fence wire or gate hinges here. Dont be negitive, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com > > Pieters, > > Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any objections to > what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the traditional " BHP > didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you in the > know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard. > > Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the drawings > for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead of > 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back in > rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll borrow > that inch from one of the rear bays. > Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I will > have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted > cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no problem. > A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop > and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches. > > Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of the > fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance. > > Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be nice. > > Corky in beautiful Louisiana > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:49 PM PST US From: "John Carmen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders and the home shopping network --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Carmen" Speaking of junk tools. I use a 90 degree die grinder for everything. I got one about 10 years ago and must have a Zillion miles on it. I paid 19 bucks for it from HF. I give it a few drops of oil once a month if I can remember and a squirt of grease in the gear box once a year. I got two more of these grinders for 19 bucks, now I have four of them with a tool for each. My air drill is worth 300 bucks so don't go the cheap for airdrills. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle builders and the home shopping network > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Group--copying from Frank P.'s Sky Gypsy, I made my axle out of 1.5" OD x > 0.200 4130 tube. If any of you get to the point where you need to thread > the ends of your axle for either the hex-castle nut or round on the end let > me know. I purchased the 1 1/2-16 die and have a die handle that I can > loan out (threading oil not included:) You'll need a beefy vise to hold > your axle and some Wheaties but overall not a big job. > > Just got off line from http://www.harborfreight.com/ and ordered some new > hand tools. You guys should see the junk tools that have been serving me > for the past umpteen years. I mean I have junk for > tools. Seriously. I finally bought some new stuff and found that Harbor > Freight has been a decent source for the builder on a budget. (and most of > us are minus the airline pilots:)) But they earned it ! I almost feel > like somebody hooked on ordering things off of the home shopping network, > but doing it on the web !!! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:38 PM PST US From: Les Schubert Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert Guys The stretched fuselage sounds like a god idea especially for us taller, larger people these days. Being 6'4" and 230# I realized after some checking and trying on another guys Piet that I absolutely could not put it on as Bernie designed it. I was also concerned was gross weight so I simply removed the front cockpit. My wife said she had no intention of flying with me in it but she might consider flying it without me in it. For you guys who have stretched it what do you think your empty weight is going to come out at? Dick I see you have the basic fuselage finished. Can you please grab the bathroom scale and weigh it for us? It seems to me the stock fuselage weighs about 70lbs at the state you are at. I am planning to use a A65 continental that I have. I am planing to use a wing mounted tank so the C of G doesn't move around as the fuel load changes. Anything wrong with this? Thx Les At 04:42 PM 28/04/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" > > >Hey Corky >If BHP were kickin around today the Piet would be going thru some wild >experimentations. I'm not one to comment on the changes in width. But on >my second fuse I got an additional 9.5" on length in the rear cockpit by >moving the seat back 1", reclining the seat 1.5", and using the original >plan for the bridge deck between cockpits. If you want to check it out go >to www.cposeminars.com/plane01.html >This is a bit of a deviation from the piet plan, no fence wire or gate >hinges here. > >Dont be negitive, >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com > > > > Pieters, > > > > Am asking all of you to put on you thinking caps and voice any objections >to > > what I am about to write. I want tech reasons more than the traditional " >BHP > > didn't do it that way". I particularly want to hear from those of you in >the > > know aerodynamically as I would rather avoid creating a hazard. > > > > Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the >drawings > > for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead >of > > 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back >in > > rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll >borrow > > that inch from one of the rear bays. > > Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I >will > > have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted > > cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no >problem. > > A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop > > and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches. > > > > Sure, I know you all think I nuts and your probably right but think of the > > fun I'm having spending all our children's inheritance. > > > > Will appreciate any and all comments on the subject but try and be nice. > > > > Corky in beautiful Louisiana > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:31 PM PST US From: "George Allen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "George Allen" Thanks Ted, I'll try it. I just bought some 4130 sheet. I forgot all about that way of cutting steel. I heard about it long ago and forgot. George Allen Harrisburg, PA GeorgeA@PAonline.com (Peitenpol builder) ---- Original Message ----- > I just cut out the firewall end of the motor mounts that are made of 1/8" > 4130. I use a standard wood cutting band saw with a standard 1/2" wood > cutting blade. I timed the cuts. They were basically 30 seconds per inch > of straight cut. It is called friction cutting. You get it going just fast > enough to create a red glow where the blade meets the sheet. I have been > using this blade for 6 months of off and on cutting. > Hope this helps someone save a little $ and shop space. And see if we can > get a little life in this list again. > > Ted ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:48 PM PST US From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Thanks Mike, What did you other builders of straight axles use?? The F&G manual calls for 12 GA which is around .11 thick tubing. Has anyone used 12 GA and lived to tell about it? Ted With order in hand just waiting to fill in this last blank. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Axle material used: 1.5" OD x whatever you want x 0.20 wall thickness. > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:01 PM PST US From: "Doyle K. Combs" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Doyle K. Combs" Would anyone building a GN-1 be willing to share the demensions for the landing gear set up? I am ready to build mine, but the J-3 gear is sufficiently different. I really would appreciate having the demensions, especiall for the upper middle section. Thanks, Doyle Combs ----- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:58 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" Corky, My fuselage was built in accordance with the "Improved Air Camper" plans (not the F and G plans) and I made these changes: 1. Widened at cockpits by 2", making for a 26" outside dimension; 2. Firewall moved 6" forward (recommended by BHP himself for lighter engines); 3. Plywood in cockpit area placed on inside, rather than the outside. If I were to build another (which I won't), I would still incorporate these changes because they have proved to be satisfactory for over 30 years. The only additional change I would consider is to lengthen the rear cockpit in order to have the instrument panel a bit further from my nose. This has likely been accomplished by the so-called "long fuselage"---the plans of which I have not seen. At about 5' 8" I don't have any trouble fitting the airplane, but don't wish to fly it more than about 1.5 hours without stopping for a "walkabout". Therefore I would question the need for carrying a lot of fuel. The Pietenpol, as designed, is not overly-endowed with fixed tail surface area. The directional and longitudinal stability of the four different "short fuselage" Piets I have flown was only just adequate. The longer fuselage version having a longer tail arm could show an improvement in this regard. A fuselage 28" wide could affect the airflow over the tail and require an increase in tail area. Wind tunnel testing would be recommended, but I don't think you want to go there. So all I can say is that a 26" wide fuselage will be OK; I dunno about the 28 inch version. My Piper PA17 Vagabond is really short coupled with a wide forward fuselage, but its tailfeathers are pure J-3 and of ample size. Their effectiveness isn't compromised by turbulence from open cockpits, windscreens and the pilot's head, either. Placing the pilot further aft and the engine forward for balance could cause some "interesting" behavior in a spin. Changes from the plans are common practice, but as Volmer Jensen (the designer of a number of successful aircraft) put it: "Make one change and you may have to make dozens." And these could add weight. Just my 2 cents worth. Cheers, Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:35 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 landing gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" email me... I am building a GN-1 and have completed the landing gear phase. Mine's sitting on a 1940 something J-3 Gear. DJ Vegh N74DV www.imagedv.com/aircamper dvegh@imagedv.com Mesa, AZ do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doyle K. Combs" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Doyle K. Combs" > > Would anyone building a GN-1 be willing to share the demensions for the > landing gear set up? I am ready to build mine, but the J-3 gear is > sufficiently different. I really would appreciate having the demensions, > especiall for the upper middle section. > > Thanks, Doyle Combs > ----- > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:48 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratril" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" Ted For what it's worth since mine hasn't flown yet. My first one has a 1.125 x .200 and the new one is 1.250 x .120 Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" > > Thanks Mike, > > What did you other builders of straight axles use?? The F&G manual calls > for 12 GA which is around .11 thick tubing. Has anyone used 12 GA and lived > to tell about it? > > Ted > With order in hand just waiting to fill in this last blank. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > > > Axle material used: 1.5" OD x whatever you want x 0.20 wall thickness. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:15 PM PST US From: clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse change from plans --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif > >Hi Corky. There's an old piet here that is in rebuild after sitting for some time. Prior to that it was a chapter(RAA) club plane for a while I believe. I can't seem to get any definitive answers as to it's flying characteristics but in general it is remembered to have flown fine. It is 6" wider-both cockpits, standard length, longer, angled cabanes and longer center section. Corvair powered. There appears to be some leeway. If Bernard had been a larger man, what would the plane be like? Sorry I don't have more details. Clif > Tomorrow I begin laying out the fuse for RePiet. I will be using the drawings > for the long one but will vary it somewhat. The width will be 28 instead of > 24. The rear cockpit will be 4 inches longer from inst panel to seat back in > rear pit than the short fuse or 1 in longer than the long fuse. I'll borrow > that inch from one of the rear bays. > Also, but not firm, am considering a center section of 32 inches since I will > have a wing tank for those long, long trips. This will necessitate slanted > cabane struts. I have computed the W&B for these changes and see no problem. > A 2 in longer engine mount for the A-65 with the Hegy 7 1/2 lb wooden prop > and cabanes slanted rearward 3 1/2 inches.