---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/11/03: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:46 AM - Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff (John McNarry) 2. 08:51 AM - Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks (Woodflier@aol.com) 3. 09:46 AM - Re: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks (Alex Sloan) 4. 09:53 AM - Re: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks (Jack Phillips) 5. 10:01 AM - Re: Eaa Hotliner (John Dilatush) 6. 10:21 AM - Brodhead (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS) 7. 10:44 AM - Re: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks (Richard Navratril) 8. 12:19 PM - Re: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks (Gene Rambo) 9. 01:41 PM - Adjusted trim (walter evans) 10. 01:53 PM - Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff (and shock cord terminal serving method) (Graham Hansen) 11. 09:47 PM - Re: tires, taxiing, & stuff (and shock cord terminal serving... (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:42 AM PST US From: "John McNarry" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" Just a short comment on tie wraps or as we call them zip ties. The black ones are way more UV resistant. White ones used here on farm equipment don't last a year the black ones seem to be good many years later. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Navratril Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" I wrapped mine the way Mike C. describes. I got it from him on a question about 15 months ago. There is still one thing kind of bugging me about it though - A NW airlines I&A looked at it and was concerned about the Tie wrapps annd was very concerned about depending on them. I have decided on adding a safety "clamp" after I determine that the tensions are right. I will use rib lacing cord and stich the 2 ends of the shock cord together as a safety. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:01 AM PST US From: Woodflier@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Woodflier@aol.com I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion. The material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it up with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then dunk the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and not environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop that does it and can dispose of the materials. My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the interiors, and then weld on the final section? If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here. Matt Paxton ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:10 AM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Matt, Having built two metal RV type aircraft I can speak having been there. All parts of the aircraft had to be protected from corrosion except the fuel tanks. I could never find any thing that said to do as you are thinking of doing. Mr. VanGrunsvan, designer of the RV series, said not to prime the fuel tanks. I plan to build aluminum tanks for my Piet and will not prime the interior in any way. I will prime only the exterior parts of the tank. My tanks will be rivited and sealed using the great Pro-Seal. I will clean all mating surfaces and scotch Brite them . I use MEK to clean them being sure to wear protective gloves. Oil from the finger tips can contaminate the mating surfaces and perhaps not allow the Pro-Seal to adhere. I will not slosh the tanks as there are some known cases where the slosh was attacked by some fuel that apparently contained something beside gasoline. The slosh came loose and created blockage in the fuel system. Pro-Seal, if applied correctly, will seal up the tank completely. and rest assured, it will not come off. Acetone does a great job of cleaning up. I will pressure the tank to 1.5 lbs. of air pressure and test it for leaks using bubble soapy solution. A blood pressure gage makes a great testing gage to detect leaks. If it holds the pressure on the gage, you are in business. 55 reading on the gage relates to 1.5 to 2 lbs. of air pressure. I will also use this. Sorry for the long post but you ask a very important question. Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Woodflier@aol.com > > I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of > aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything > together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion. The > material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it up > with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then dunk > the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and not > environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop that > does it and can dispose of the materials. > > My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it > together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the > interiors, and then weld on the final section? > > If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to > suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here. > > Matt Paxton > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:09 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" HI Matt, I don't know the definitive answer here, but what I've done is to clean the areas that were to be welded with a commercial cleaner prior to welding, then I intend to take the tank to a commercial opeation in Greensboro, NC, where they can immerse the entire tank in a vat and anodize it inside and out. All of this is probably unnecessary, since 5052 has good corrosion resistance by itself. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC Where NX899JP just got her elevators covered today. Starting on the rudder and vertical fin, then the horizontal stabilizer. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Woodflier@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Woodflier@aol.com I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion. The material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it up with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then dunk the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and not environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop that does it and can dispose of the materials. My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the interiors, and then weld on the final section? If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here. Matt Paxton ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:28 AM PST US From: "John Dilatush" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eaa Hotliner --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eaa Hotliner +++++++++++++++++ Hang in there, Tiger. Yo'all will make it yet! John +++++++++++++++++ > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com > > Old Pieters, > There may be hope for us yet. Did all see and read the Eaa Hotline Friday. > Important to me was: FAA to establish a branch office, Sport Pilot facility, > to deal with items pertinent to the SP/SPA activities when the rule is passed > which is expected at Oshgosh time. I am putting 41CC in the back of the > hanger and just waiting. Hope I live that long > YKW in YKW > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:12 AM PST US From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" This is a heartfelt plea to those of you who might not have a lot of Pietenpol reunions under their belts. There was a recent post about a Tailwind gaggle going to an unnamed airport as a jumping off place for Oshkosh. That's all well and good but.......... Please don't advertise (even with good intentions) to any other groups that Brodhead would be a great place for them to assemble during the Piet reunion. In the past we have had various groups "drop in" which severely strained the resources and the volunteers at the airport. Comaraderie is a wonderful thing but when a volunteer group plans for a particular bunch to show up and about triple that number arrives........ you get the picture. I'm sure the field loves to sell all the gas but other things have to be considered like: longer lines for the shower, portapotties need replenished more often, gathering food for the dinner has to be refigured at the last minute, more trash to collect, not enough seats at meal-time, and other things that I don't even know about. This thing is planned for months in advance, last minute changes are not what future invitations are made of. I'm sure the planners at Brodhead would be too polite to bring this up as they welcome any and all, but I have seen and heard their concerns in the past. I guess if we can all remember that this is the "Brodhead PIETENPOL REUNION", that's all that has to be said. Thanks for reading my rant, Larry ps. Thank everyone at Brodhead that has ANYTHING to do with putting on the reunion!!!! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:37 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratril" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" Matt I had some similar concerns building my tank but not corrosion. I worried about possible future leaks around welded seams. The welder that put my tank together happend to be into HotRods. He had a gatalog from Eastwood Company , 1-800-345-1178 specializing in racing / custom auto etc. Try www.eastwoodcompany.com They have a fuel tank sealer suitable for coating the inside of antique fuel tanks to seal leaks. You can coat the entire tank or as I did, order a pint, enough to seep into all seams. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Woodflier@aol.com > > I have a question for all you Pieters who have made your tanks out of > aluminum. I've formed all the parts for the tank and clecoed everything > together. I want to prime the inside particularly to fend off corrosion. The > material is 5052 aluminum sheet, and the traditional method is to clean it up > with a scotch brite pad, then degrease with Prepsol or a degreaser, then dunk > the parts in Alodyne and then wash. I understand this is nasty stuff and not > environmentally friendly, but I have access to the materials and a shop that > does it and can dispose of the materials. > > My question is, should I Alodyne all parts of the tank prior to welding it > together, or weld it up except for the bottom, clean and Alodyne the > interiors, and then weld on the final section? > > If there are any recommendations for other fuel-proof primers, I'm open to > suggestions on that too.. nothing is written in stone here. > > Matt Paxton > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:52 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alodyning aluminum fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" I would agree not to alodine before welding, because the welding will burn it off where you most want it. Personally, I just prime the exterior with a good self etching primer (Variprime). I have always used Randolph sloshing sealer on the interior and have never had any trouble with it even using auto fuel, although I have heard stories of it coming off with fuel which has alcohol in it. I recently cut open a fuel tank that had sloshing sealer in it over ten years ago -- I couldn't bead blast the stuff off. Gene ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:32 PM PST US From: "walter evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Adjusted trim --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walter evans" Although my Piet flies hands off as far as stability, reduced power flying only, I still had an annoying problem with having to hold slight fwd pressure on the stick at cruise RPM. Became a problem when flying for more than an hour. I know this was talked about awhile ago, I thought I'd add what I did and the results. The holding fwd pressure virtually went away by adjusting the fwd wires on the horizontal stabilizer. Loosened the lower exactly 2 turns and then tightened the upper the same 2 turns. When viewing from the front of the plane, with the root of the stab. flat, the outter leading edge seems to have been raised about 1/8 inch. Test flew it and it was right on the money. walt in NJ where the sky was all the way to the ground all day ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:58 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff (and shock cord terminal serving method) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" Group, With reference to the time-honored method of "whipping" (or "serving") shock cord loop-type ends, a good authority is AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE for the AIR- PLANE MECHANIC by Brimm and Boggess, 1940, pp.397,398. Essentially, B.& B. say that rib stitching cord be used; the elastic shock cord be stretched at least 10 % while being served; each turn of the wrapping be secured by a half hitch; the length of the served section be at least 4 times the shock cord diameter. The half hitches should be in a neat line and a couple of coats of clear dope over the whipping is recommended. Nylon tie wraps could prove handy to hold the shock cord together while doing the whipping job, but I would hesitate to rely on them alone to secure the terminal ends. I have used the serving method described above on landing gear shock cords and ski rigging for over 50 years and it has always proved to be reliable. I use it on the straight axle landing gear of my Sperry Messenger Biplane reproduction and it is completely satisfactory---except that now I'm getting too old and weak to stretch that 1/2" shock cord anymore! This serving method has been around since the early days of aviation and is very much in keeping with the period represented by BHP's aeroplane. Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in sunny, but cool, Alberta, Canada) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:26 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tires, taxiing, & stuff (and shock cord terminal serving... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 5/11/03 3:54:32 PM Central Daylight Time, grhans@cable-lynx.net writes: << With reference to the time-honored method of "whipping" (or "serving") shock cord loop-type ends, a good authority is AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE for the AIR- PLANE MECHANIC by Brimm and Boggess, 1940, pp.397,398. Essentially, B.& B. say that rib stitching cord be used; the elastic shock cord be stretched at least 10 % while being served; each turn of the wrapping be secured by a half hitch; the length of the served section be at least 4 times the shock cord diameter. The half hitches should be in a neat line and a couple of coats of clear dope over the whipping is recommended. >> This is how I did my split axle gear bunji's. Speaking of split axle, didn't Piper Aircraft copy this design from Pietenpol ? Chuck Gantzer with most of a 72 X 42 prop whittled out.