Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 PM - Piet rigging (Isablcorky@aol.com)
2. 04:19 PM - Re: Piet rigging (w b evans)
3. 06:36 PM - Re: Piet rigging (Cy Galley)
4. 07:02 PM - Re: Piet rigging (Gene Rambo)
5. 07:03 PM - Re: Question #7 (Gene Rambo)
6. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Question #7 (Jack Phillips)
7. 09:40 PM - Re: Piet rigging (Rcaprd@aol.com)
8. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: Question #7 (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Pieters,
Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting landings
on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees, mid
afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like Jr.'s
rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared, usually
too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
QUESTION?
Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to the
plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling that
the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
Corky in La
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Corky,
My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and not
a bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root of
the wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall, slightly
before the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which are
just barely still in smooth air.
sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation.
Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. the
vision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landing
without power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log book
reflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on that
throttle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three point)
you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and flies
forward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Piet
beautifully.
Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taught
Harrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take time
to stop and talk to you.
Corky , keep us posted!
walt evans
NX140DL
in rainy NJ
"that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust"
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
>
> Pieters,
> Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
> with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
landings
> on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees,
mid
> afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
Jr.'s
> rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
usually
> too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> QUESTION?
> Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
the
> plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
that
> the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> Corky in La
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Repeat after me! NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing with
the rudder unless you really want to spin!
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
>
> Corky,
> My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and
not
> a bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root
of
> the wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall,
slightly
> before the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which
are
> just barely still in smooth air.
> sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation.
> Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. the
> vision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landing
> without power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log
book
> reflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on that
> throttle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three
point)
> you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and flies
> forward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Piet
> beautifully.
> Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taught
> Harrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take time
> to stop and talk to you.
> Corky , keep us posted!
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> in rainy NJ
> "that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Isablcorky@aol.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
> >
> > Pieters,
> > Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5
dual
> > with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
> landings
> > on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La
degrees,
> mid
> > afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
> Jr.'s
> > rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
> usually
> > too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> > QUESTION?
> > Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
> the
> > plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
> that
> > the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> > Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> > Corky in La
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" <rambog@erols.com>
The purpose of washout is not to give YOU advance notice of a stall, but to
make the wingtips, i.e., the aileron area stall a little bit later to give
you some additional aileron authority. You may not, and probably won't,
notice the difference. I doubt that you would be able to tell that "the
entire wing is stalling at the same time."
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
>
> Pieters,
> Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual
> with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting
landings
> on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees,
mid
> afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like
Jr.'s
> rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared,
usually
> too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward.
> QUESTION?
> Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to
the
> plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling
that
> the entire wing is stalling at the same time.
> Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject
> Corky in La
>
>
Message 5
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" <rambog@erols.com>
To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
many responses):
7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
aligning it with the fuselage?????
Gene
Message 6
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Gene,
I drilled two sets of holes so that if I find I need more offset (the first
set is on the centerline) I can do it easily. I'm expecting to not need the
second set of holes, though. I think most Piets flying have the fin
centered on the centerline.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" <rambog@erols.com>
To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated
many responses):
7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
aligning it with the fuselage?????
Gene
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Piet rigging |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
I think the 1" difference in the front and rear cabane struts, equates to 3
degrees positive incidence. No need for washout on a Hershey bar wing. It
inherently stalls inboard first, then the stall progresses outboard, providing
you keep the ball in the middle. The drawback to washout, is it adds drag.
Cy is correct : NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing
with
the rudder unless you really want to spin! Lets look at this-- Lets say you
are very close to the 'Critical Angle of Attack' (AOA where a stall begins),
at low airspeed (any airspeed actually). If the right wing is low, and you
give left aileron, lowering the right aileron past the 'Critical Angle of
Attack,' raising the left aileron and lowering the left wing tip's angle of attack.
Result : the right wing tip will stall, and it will spin to the right.
A little blip of power might be needed if your rate of decent is high,
and your airspeed is low, to help level off the rate of decent just before
touchdown. The propwash also helps the rudder to be more responsive.
Corky, my hunch is that you are doing your round - out, and flair all in
the same motion of the stick. This will bring the entire wing past the
'Critical Angle of Attack' all at once, and stall the entire wing.
It's been awhile since I've flown my Piet, but my preference for landing
was to cross the fence at about 50 mph, roundout at about 5 to 8 agl, then
ride the ground effect for a couple of seconds very close to the ground, then
break lift with very slight additional aft stick. My last 3 landings (last fall)
the tail touched just a split second before the mains, and it stayed on the
ground...no bounce, short roll out. This method, however, probably would not
work well with a cross wind. Wheel landing is preferred for cross wind
landings.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
planning on first engine run of the A65 this week. Do 3 or 4 ground runs,
with cool down period, and inspections. If everything works out first flight
with new engine next Sunday evening, weather permitting.
Message 8
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 6/1/03 9:03:31 PM Central Daylight Time, rambog@erols.com
writes:
<< 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you
aligning it with the fuselage????? >>
Gene,
My fin is aligned with the fuselage, but I ofset the A65 engine mount about
1/16" to the right. Low power aircraft usually don't need the fin offset to
account for torque.
Chuck
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