---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/01/03: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:22 PM - Piet rigging (Isablcorky@aol.com) 2. 04:19 PM - Re: Piet rigging (w b evans) 3. 06:36 PM - Re: Piet rigging (Cy Galley) 4. 07:02 PM - Re: Piet rigging (Gene Rambo) 5. 07:03 PM - Re: Question #7 (Gene Rambo) 6. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Question #7 (Jack Phillips) 7. 09:40 PM - Re: Piet rigging (Rcaprd@aol.com) 8. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: Question #7 (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:11 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Pieters, Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting landings on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees, mid afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like Jr.'s rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared, usually too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward. QUESTION? Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to the plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling that the entire wing is stalling at the same time. Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject Corky in La ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:15 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Corky, My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and not a bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root of the wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall, slightly before the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which are just barely still in smooth air. sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation. Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. the vision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landing without power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log book reflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on that throttle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three point) you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and flies forward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Piet beautifully. Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taught Harrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take time to stop and talk to you. Corky , keep us posted! walt evans NX140DL in rainy NJ "that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com > > Pieters, > Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual > with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting landings > on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees, mid > afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like Jr.'s > rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared, usually > too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward. > QUESTION? > Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to the > plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling that > the entire wing is stalling at the same time. > Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject > Corky in La > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:56 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Repeat after me! NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing with the rudder unless you really want to spin! Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" > > Corky, > My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and not > a bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root of > the wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall, slightly > before the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which are > just barely still in smooth air. > sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation. > Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. the > vision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landing > without power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log book > reflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on that > throttle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three point) > you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and flies > forward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Piet > beautifully. > Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taught > Harrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take time > to stop and talk to you. > Corky , keep us posted! > walt evans > NX140DL > in rainy NJ > "that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com > > > > Pieters, > > Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual > > with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting > landings > > on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees, > mid > > afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like > Jr.'s > > rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared, > usually > > too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward. > > QUESTION? > > Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to > the > > plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling > that > > the entire wing is stalling at the same time. > > Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject > > Corky in La > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:09 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" The purpose of washout is not to give YOU advance notice of a stall, but to make the wingtips, i.e., the aileron area stall a little bit later to give you some additional aileron authority. You may not, and probably won't, notice the difference. I doubt that you would be able to tell that "the entire wing is stalling at the same time." ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com > > Pieters, > Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual > with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting landings > on a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees, mid > afternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like Jr.'s > rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared, usually > too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward. > QUESTION? > Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to the > plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling that > the entire wing is stalling at the same time. > Need some thoughts and chatter on this subject > Corky in La > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:19 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated many responses): 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you aligning it with the fuselage????? Gene ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:55 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Gene, I drilled two sets of holes so that if I find I need more offset (the first set is on the centerline) I can do it easily. I'm expecting to not need the second set of holes, though. I think most Piets flying have the fin centered on the centerline. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" To add to my list of questions (not that my previous ones have generated many responses): 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you aligning it with the fuselage????? Gene ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:36 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com I think the 1" difference in the front and rear cabane struts, equates to 3 degrees positive incidence. No need for washout on a Hershey bar wing. It inherently stalls inboard first, then the stall progresses outboard, providing you keep the ball in the middle. The drawback to washout, is it adds drag. Cy is correct : NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing with the rudder unless you really want to spin! Lets look at this-- Lets say you are very close to the 'Critical Angle of Attack' (AOA where a stall begins), at low airspeed (any airspeed actually). If the right wing is low, and you give left aileron, lowering the right aileron past the 'Critical Angle of Attack,' raising the left aileron and lowering the left wing tip's angle of attack. Result : the right wing tip will stall, and it will spin to the right. A little blip of power might be needed if your rate of decent is high, and your airspeed is low, to help level off the rate of decent just before touchdown. The propwash also helps the rudder to be more responsive. Corky, my hunch is that you are doing your round - out, and flair all in the same motion of the stick. This will bring the entire wing past the 'Critical Angle of Attack' all at once, and stall the entire wing. It's been awhile since I've flown my Piet, but my preference for landing was to cross the fence at about 50 mph, roundout at about 5 to 8 agl, then ride the ground effect for a couple of seconds very close to the ground, then break lift with very slight additional aft stick. My last 3 landings (last fall) the tail touched just a split second before the mains, and it stayed on the ground...no bounce, short roll out. This method, however, probably would not work well with a cross wind. Wheel landing is preferred for cross wind landings. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG planning on first engine run of the A65 this week. Do 3 or 4 ground runs, with cool down period, and inspections. If everything works out first flight with new engine next Sunday evening, weather permitting. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:39 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question #7 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 6/1/03 9:03:31 PM Central Daylight Time, rambog@erols.com writes: << 7. Are any of you offsetting the vertical fin to the left, or are you aligning it with the fuselage????? >> Gene, My fin is aligned with the fuselage, but I ofset the A65 engine mount about 1/16" to the right. Low power aircraft usually don't need the fin offset to account for torque. Chuck