Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - slack cables and anvils (Michael D Cuy)
2. 05:06 AM - Cross Country in a Piet (Michael D Cuy)
3. 05:25 AM - Re: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! (Ken Rickards)
4. 07:29 AM - Re: continental engine (rambog@erols.com)
5. 08:11 AM - Re: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!! (Gary Gower)
6. 09:19 AM - Re: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! (DJ Vegh)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! (Ken Rickards)
8. 12:51 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet (Graham Hansen)
9. 01:37 PM - Two Landings Aborted (Michael D Cuy)
10. 02:18 PM - Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the turbulence thing (w b evans)
11. 03:23 PM - Re: Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the turbu (cat_designs@juno.com)
12. 03:37 PM - Re: Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the turbu lence thing (w b evans)
13. 04:37 PM - pilot seat and other ramblings... (Brants)
14. 05:46 PM - Split Axle Springs (D. Engelkenjohn)
15. 06:05 PM - Re: Split Axle Springs (Kip & Beth Gardner)
16. 07:25 PM - Re: Split Axle Springs (D. Engelkenjohn)
17. 07:47 PM - Re: Chords, aero not music (Jack Phillips)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | slack cables and anvils |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Walt-- Since we have to THINK when doing things while building a Piet and
rigging it, one of many, many questions that I had to answer was "how tight
should my control cables be ?" I dunno. Some guys have them slack, some
you can hit B sharp on. My (always simple-minded, but it works) method was
to tighten the cables until I felt a 'binding' or sluggishness in the
control stick feel and then back-off on the turnbuckle a bit and safety
wire it. Don't want your cables jumping off the pulleys--but that would
never happen anyway since we all are installing cable guards like Tony B.
and the FAA want us to have. But, bottom line is that my cables are
pretty snug, not slack, but not guitar tight either and my plane flies just
like yours in turbulence. Your idea of the anvil in the front seat is
actually an excellent idea. I have found that with full fuel or a
passenger that the plane flies better in turbulence. Stands to reason I
guess as you are increasing the wing loading per square area.
One additional note- I found that the front seat as built to the plans
is not really durable. I've done several repairs to mine and
"beef-ups" Maybe my passengers are just rough on the seat but it seems to
take a beating. I did put rudder bar stops (simple wood blocks glued to
the floor in front of the rudder bar on each side so that the rudder does
not bang into your flippers (elevator.))
Those help to keep us from kicking the rudder bar into the front seat front
support plywood. (of which I would have made 1/4" thick not 1/8" as the
plans show.)
Mike C.
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cross Country in a Piet |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Jim Malley is right on about his trips to Brodhead in his Piet. (by the
way, that is a really pretty, pretty airplane) On my first trip to
Wisconsin it took 12 hours door to door to fly from Cleveland to Watertown
Wisconsin when you could have driven that in about 9.5 hours or less. The
vis. and ceilings were superb but the wind was gusting, hot, bumpy, and
totally fatiguing. I never have slept so good in my life as that
night. It's not unsafe, it just is very, very annoying. Many times the
bumps were so strong that I would re-grip the stick about 8" down from the
top since prior to that my arm would literally fly up off the stick in a
bump.
Seat belts snug ? I was a non-gps owner then and it was no easy task
watching the sectional chart and keeping it tucked in my knee
board. Folding it to a new section was an art in itself in that kind of
turbulence. Even on a smooth day, fold your maps down low by your knees,
not up by the upper longerons.
Jim made another excellent point. On hot/turbulent days you are
basically at the mercy of the dark and light colored fields below you for
altitude control. On those days when x-country it is a constant battle to
maintain altitude. You feel like a happy sailpane one minute gaining
altitude by the gob, and the next you feel like you are in a
mini-microburst being pushed toward the ground.
The really good, happy, encouraging, and satisfying end to this e-mail
is that those days are not always the case. There have been some
days (like the trip to Indianapolis and back last Sept.) that I barely had
to touch the controls. Just keeping track of the chart and gps and
relaxing as the gorgeous farmlands scroll by below, not even noticing your
pile of sticks flying 2000 feet above. How sweet it is !
Mike C.
es eeeee
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards <krickards@cvci.com>
Hey DJ,
Just let me know what you have and I will take them off you hands, along
with the other pieces that I am getting from you.
You going to Oshkosh this year?
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I will be receiving my laser cut steel fittings from Emachineshop.com this
week. I'm excited to see just how well this process went...
I drew up the fittings in CAD, placed the laser cut order online, paid via
credit card, all without talking a person....
For those building GN-1's I'll have a bucket full of extra parts... rudder &
elevator horns, cabane brace wire lugs, and more... In order to get a
discount I
had to do a few extra pieces...
I'll post pictures when I get the stuff...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr@starband.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ronnie Wagner"
<wlrdlr@starband.net>
>
> Dennis,
> One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
> I bet they are the same thing.
> I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from
Arkansas
> how to do it. No big words please!
> Ronnie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> >
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn"
> <wingding@usmo.com>
> >
> > I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
> >
> > H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
> >
> > Precision Punch and Plastics
> > Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
> >
> > The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
> > are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
> > heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
> > weaker ones.
> >
> > The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE: continental engine |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rambog@erols.com" <rambog@erols.com>
I am not at home, so I don't have my mail list to know who I have been
talking to about engines. I have been encouraging someone on here to buy a
65 for his project. There is a Continental C-65 on EBAY right now with a
starting bid of $800. It says it was running when removed. It does not
look like there is a reserve. If I had the spare cash, I'd buy it for that
price.
Gene
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
As I am getting the message, is like making (in this days) the same
trip by road using only side roads (no freeways) in a Model A Ford
car... Low speed, tuff suspension, hard steering, hard seats.
Similar adventures, diferent elements.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- Jim Malley <jgmalley@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Malley
> <jgmalley@comcast.net>
>
> True cross country jaunts are really tough. Don't believe the anvil
> would
> help, I regularly fly at 1250 gross and have often experienced not
> being
> able to control altitude within 400 feet each way on a windy sunny
> day.
> Tightening and loosening control cables has made no difference. Our
> trips to
> Brodhead were made in the mornings and evenings of many days. You can
> try
> going above the scattered cumulus but then you can't see the
> roadsigns.
> Jim Malley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans"
> <wbeevans@verizon.net>
> >
> > Mike,
> > Got an email from a flyer who thought that the problem could be
> control
> > cables a little on the loose side. Didn't want to post his message
> to me
> on
> > the group, but he might have a point. I've always been very wary
> of over
> > tight control cables and something breaking. Could I/you have
> slightly
> > slack cables causing this squirrelly condition???
> > It just bothers me to think that some day on flying to Brodhead in
> my
> > dreams,,,, and in reality, when the wind kicks up in the real
> world, I'm
> > lucky to make it back the 15/20 miles to home base.
> > Maybe I'm just a sissy
> > ms. walt evans
> > would it help to carry an anvil in the front hole?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eureka, Walt Evans !!!!!!
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> > <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
> > >
> > > Walt-- Would you please talk to all the other pilots in the area
> who
> think
> > > I'm a whimp on hot bumpy, windy days with my Piet???? I have the
> EXACT
> > > same issues with turbulence as compared to when flying a Cub or
> Champ or
> > > anything heavier. Many others here do not believe me when I say
> how
> > > sensitive my Piet is to turbulence. It's very obvious when I fly
> to a
> > > pancake breakfast (or from more likely) with another plane in
> loose
> > > formation that I am the one getting tossed around, not the other
> > > plane. There are very few 2 seat single engine planes out there
> that
> have
> > > an empty weight near 600 lbs. like ours do.
> > >
> > > Mike C.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Thanks Ken... I have you down as wanting some parts.... I won't make it to Oshkosh
this year... I'd like to bu don't have the time... :(
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Rickards
To: 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:38 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards <krickards@cvci.com>
Hey DJ,
Just let me know what you have and I will take them off you hands, along
with the other pieces that I am getting from you.
You going to Oshkosh this year?
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I will be receiving my laser cut steel fittings from Emachineshop.com this
week. I'm excited to see just how well this process went...
I drew up the fittings in CAD, placed the laser cut order online, paid via
credit card, all without talking a person....
For those building GN-1's I'll have a bucket full of extra parts... rudder &
elevator horns, cabane brace wire lugs, and more... In order to get a
discount I
had to do a few extra pieces...
I'll post pictures when I get the stuff...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr@starband.net>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ronnie Wagner"
<wlrdlr@starband.net>
>
> Dennis,
> One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
> I bet they are the same thing.
> I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from
Arkansas
> how to do it. No big words please!
> Ronnie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> >
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn"
> <wingding@usmo.com>
> >
> > I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
> >
> > H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
> >
> > Precision Punch and Plastics
> > Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
> >
> > The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
> > are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
> > heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
> > weaker ones.
> >
> > The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards <krickards@cvci.com>
No problem, just let me know how much I owe you and what other parts you
have.
Ken.
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Thanks Ken... I have you down as wanting some parts.... I won't make it
to Oshkosh this year... I'd like to bu don't have the time... :(
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Rickards
To: 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:38 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards <krickards@cvci.com>
Hey DJ,
Just let me know what you have and I will take them off you hands, along
with the other pieces that I am getting from you.
You going to Oshkosh this year?
Ken
GN1 2992
Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: DJ Vegh [mailto:aircamper@imagedv.com]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emachienshop.com parts soon to be here!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I will be receiving my laser cut steel fittings from Emachineshop.com
this
week. I'm excited to see just how well this process went...
I drew up the fittings in CAD, placed the laser cut order online, paid via
credit card, all without talking a person....
For those building GN-1's I'll have a bucket full of extra parts... rudder
&
elevator horns, cabane brace wire lugs, and more... In order to get a
discount I
had to do a few extra pieces...
I'll post pictures when I get the stuff...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Wagner" <wlrdlr@starband.net>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ronnie Wagner"
<wlrdlr@starband.net>
>
> Dennis,
> One of the few parts I bought new, it figures I paid too much!
> I bet they are the same thing.
> I would post a picture if someone can tell an ignorant redneck from
Arkansas
> how to do it. No big words please!
> Ronnie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
>
>
> >
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn"
> <wingding@usmo.com>
> >
> > I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
> >
> > H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea.
through:
> >
> > Precision Punch and Plastics
> > Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
> >
> > The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina
and
> > are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended
the
> > heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with
the
> > weaker ones.
> >
> > The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
> >
> > Dennis Engelkenjohn
> >
> >
>
>
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Piet |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Mike C. has it right when he describes X-country flying with a Pietenpol.
Flying it in smooth air is pure delight, but in turbulence it is a tiring
operation with no possibility of demonstrating any degree of flying finesse.
It's just a matter of hanging on and keeping the nose pointed where you
want to go. Maintaining a precise altitude is out of the question.
I have owned Aeronca Champs, Taylorcraft and Luscombe airplanes and they
were not much fun in rough air, either. But they all are physically bigger
and heavier than a typical Pietenpol and don't react so quickly to
turbulence. The Pietenpol is a pretty small and light airplane which doesn't
fly very fast. For its size it has a relatively large wing and is
short-coupled with fairly small fixed tail surfaces. As a result, it isn't
very stable in pitch and yaw. My Piper Vagabond has about the same wing span
as my Pietenpol and is very short-coupled. Its gross weight and wing loading
are comparable to the Piet figures, but its pitch and yaw stability are much
better---likely because of its generous (standard Cub) fixed tail surfaces.
It also flies faster (90 mph) with less tendency to "wallow". Nevertheless,
it still gives a wild ride in rough air.
Considering the age of the design, the ol' Pietenpol does pretty well and
likely it was not intended for extended X-country flying of the kind Steve,
Mike, Ted and others do. My hat is off to them regarding their perseverance
and endurance! Years ago, the late Peter Bowers dubbed it "the pasture
pilot's pride and joy", thus indicating its true mission.
Preferably, one should try to confine lightplane travel to the early morning
and evening hours in order to avoid punishing turbulence during the heat of
the day. Unfortunately, that isn't always possible.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (CF-AUN)
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Two Landings Aborted |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Two summers ago there was a pot-luck fly in at an airport about 20 minutes
away. It was WINDY. A nice
day otherwise but windy. The wind was right down the runway at both
airports but it was that kind of wind
where the gusts are not rhythmic and steady but erratic and forceful every
few puffs. I had flown in similar conditions
so I headed out. What a bumpy ride over but heck, there were 10 to 12
planes on the ground and a nice crowd.
(the smart ones arrived by car) On the approach to this sod strip it was
evident that it was going to be one of those
things where if you timed it right you would touchdown during a nice steady
portion of the wind but otherwise you'd
either balloon up again or get slammed into the ground. After two really
valiant attempts to get the plane down safely
I headed home without landing. I came within about 10 feet maybe, but then
went around. Not embarrassed at all
actually, I was just disappointed I couldn't share the plane with others
and missed some good chow.
I got some razzing from a few of the guys who were there watching me try to
land but the guy who said " You did the
right thing if it didn't feel right." was the guy I consider the best pilot
of them all. Larry Minch is a long time tailwheel
pilot, CFI, etc. etc. etc.....kind of like Corky's Edwin. Lots of good
solid time under his belt and a common sense
pilot and instructor. Larry has flown my plane. He knows what it's like
in turbulence. The other guys arrived in
182's, Aeronca Sedan's Bellanca Decathlon's, and the like. It was not
worth all that hard work, money, time, and
sweat to crack it up over a pride issue.
Mike C.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the turbulence |
thing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Everyone who responded gave me a new confidence in flying during the midday. Think
Graham Hansen used the best word,,,"wallow". In the wind, the Piet has kind
of a lack of total stability. Not a single problem with just roll, or just
pitch, or just yaw,,,but a rolling around like you are hanging from a big string
from above. Hard to explain, but you guys have all described different,
but the same thing.
I still like the Piet in smooth air when it flies great with my hands on the front
of the cockpit behind the windshield. Love to put my fingertips out on the
right or left, and make the plane turn for me. Even put them both out like
little wings (like you used to do in the backseat of the '62 Chevy and your arm
would pull up or down), and tip them up or down to make the whole plane climb
or dive.
Wonder if the whole thing has anything to do with the fact that it is a parasol
wing? All the planes we are comparing it to have an enclose fuse like the J3
or Aeronca. With the same wingspan we would have more lift cause of the wing
in the middle that the others are lacking. could this be a trait of the parasol
wing?
The full fuse of the J3 has got to give more yaw stability with it's full sides
than sitting in a Piet shaped like a loaf of bread.
Oh well, I'm rambling.
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the turbu |
lence thing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com
Hey I want to ramble on too. I have most of my time in a C 182 and big engine 172's
and only 12 (very enjoyable) hours in a Citabra. So I tend to fall into that
category Mike was referring too, you know bigger and heaver planes that are
not affected by the wind as much (I got tossed around in a 182 all the way across
Nevada once but that is another story). On a very windy day last year, I
got the opportunity to fly in a Piper Cub to an Antique Aircraft Club fly-in.
I think our ground speed was something like 45 to 50 miles per hour. As it
turned out we were not able to land at the private runway due to the wind. I use
term "runway" very loosely, picture this 10 acres of Almond trees with a 1000-foot
long 40-foot wide swath cut right down the middle for a runway, winds
15 gusting to 25 knt 45 to 90 degrees to the "runway", I was glad we didn't try
to land there. In theses conditions we were bobbin and weaving all over the
place. I was working very hard to keep the plane level and pointed in the general
direction of where we wanted to go. About half way there the owner took
over so he could drain fuel from the wing tank to the fuselage tank. Funny thing
was when he flew we didnt bob and weave so much. Thats when I noticed he
was using the rudder to correct for the gusts and very small stick movements when
things got too far out of hand. I figure I was causing most of the bobbing
and weaving due to my training in new(er) airplanes that dont require you to
use the rudder much. I tried to force myself to use more rudder and it helped,
somewhat, but I feel I need more time in it to really become adept at thinking
rudder first aileron second. The owner was telling me that flying a light
plane like the Cub you have to go with the bumps and gusts and dont use your
ailerons too much usually the plane will correct itself without you needing to
do anything too drastic. When we did land, at a larger more open airport, it
shocked me that we didn't fall out of the sky because we were coming in so slow.
I think I could have stepped out of the door while we were 10 feet off the
ground and land on my feet. Our return trip was pretty much the same stuff.
I havent flow a Piet yet so I cant comment on how it is to fly one in the wind
but when I do I will try to go with the flow and use my feet more. In my conversations
with pilots of old and slow planes they always tell me that I will
finally learn to use my feet correctly when I fly my plane. They kid me about
all the time I have loged driving planes through the sky. I only get credit
for the 10 hours of Citabra time, now thats really flying, as they say
Boy do I wish my plane was done!
Chris
Sacramento, CA
Do not archive
--- "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Everyone who responded gave me a new confidence in flying during the midday. Think
Graham Hansen used the best word,,,"wallow". In the wind, the Piet has kind
of a lack of total stability. Not a single problem with just roll, or just
pitch, or just yaw,,,but a rolling around like you are hanging from a big string
from above. Hard to explain, but you guys have all described different,
but the same thing.
I still like the Piet in smooth air when it flies great with my hands on the front
of the cockpit behind the windshield. Love to put my fingertips out on the
right or left, and make the plane turn for me. Even put them both out like
little wings (like you used to do in the backseat of the '62 Chevy and your arm
would pull up or down), and tip them up or down to make the whole plane climb
or dive.
Wonder if the whole thing has anything to do with the fact that it is a parasol
wing? All the planes we are comparing it to have an enclose fuse like the J3
or Aeronca. With the same wingspan we would have more lift cause of the wing
in the middle that the others are lacking. could this be a trait of the parasol
wing?
The full fuse of the J3 has got to give more yaw stability with it's full sides
than sitting in a Piet shaped like a loaf of bread.
Oh well, I'm rambling.
walt evans
NX140DL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the turbu |
lence thing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Chris,
Thanks, I'll have to make a point of trying the foot vs. the stick thing.
I'll let you know!
walt evans
----- Original Message -----
From: <cat_designs@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thanks for everyone baring their soul on the
turbu lence thing
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com
>
>
> Hey I want to ramble on too. I have most of my time in a C 182 and big
engine 172's and only 12 (very enjoyable) hours in a Citabra. So I tend to
fall into that category Mike was referring too, you know bigger and heaver
planes that are not affected by the wind as much (I got tossed around in a
182 all the way across Nevada once but that is another story). On a very
windy day last year, I got the opportunity to fly in a Piper Cub to an
Antique Aircraft Club fly-in. I think our ground speed was something like
45 to 50 miles per hour. As it turned out we were not able to land at the
private runway due to the wind. I use term "runway" very loosely, picture
this 10 acres of Almond trees with a 1000-foot long 40-foot wide swath cut
right down the middle for a runway, winds 15 gusting to 25 knt 45 to 90
degrees to the "runway", I was glad we didn't try to land there. In theses
conditions we were bobbin and weaving all over the place. I was working
very hard to keep the plane le!
> vel and pointed in the general direction of where we wanted to go. About
half way there the owner took over so he could drain fuel from the wing tank
to the fuselage tank. Funny thing was when he flew we didnt bob and weave
so much. Thats when I noticed he was using the rudder to correct for the
gusts and very small stick movements when things got too far out of hand.
I figure I was causing most of the bobbing and weaving due to my training in
new(er) airplanes that dont require you to use the rudder much. I tried to
force myself to use more rudder and it helped, somewhat, but I feel I need
more time in it to really become adept at thinking rudder first aileron
second. The owner was telling me that flying a light plane like the Cub you
have to go with the bumps and gusts and dont use your ailerons too much
usually the plane will correct itself without you needing to do anything too
drastic. When we did land, at a larger more open airport, it shocked me
that we didn't!
> fall out of the sky because we were coming in so slow. I think I could
have stepped out of the door while we were 10 feet off the ground and land
on my feet. Our return trip was pretty much the same stuff. I havent flow
a Piet yet so I cant comment on how it is to fly one in the wind but when I
do I will try to go with the flow and use my feet more. In my conversations
with pilots of old and slow planes they always tell me that I will finally
learn to use my feet correctly when I fly my plane. They kid me about all
the time I have loged driving planes through the sky. I only get credit for
the 10 hours of Citabra time, now thats really flying, as they say
>
> Boy do I wish my plane was done!
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> Do not archive
>
>
> --- "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
>
> Everyone who responded gave me a new confidence in flying during the
midday. Think Graham Hansen used the best word,,,"wallow". In the wind,
the Piet has kind of a lack of total stability. Not a single problem with
just roll, or just pitch, or just yaw,,,but a rolling around like you are
hanging from a big string from above. Hard to explain, but you guys have
all described different, but the same thing.
> I still like the Piet in smooth air when it flies great with my hands on
the front of the cockpit behind the windshield. Love to put my fingertips
out on the right or left, and make the plane turn for me. Even put them
both out like little wings (like you used to do in the backseat of the '62
Chevy and your arm would pull up or down), and tip them up or down to make
the whole plane climb or dive.
>
> Wonder if the whole thing has anything to do with the fact that it is a
parasol wing? All the planes we are comparing it to have an enclose fuse
like the J3 or Aeronca. With the same wingspan we would have more lift
cause of the wing in the middle that the others are lacking. could this be
a trait of the parasol wing?
> The full fuse of the J3 has got to give more yaw stability with it's
full sides than sitting in a Piet shaped like a loaf of bread.
> Oh well, I'm rambling.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | pilot seat and other ramblings... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Brants" <tmbrant@usfamily.net>
Wondering if anyone has ever had the experience of their pilot seat frame members
cracking. I'm not THAT fat (200 lbs)... I just installed the pilot seat last
week and I was sitting in it trying to get a feel for how the front seatback
would be layed out. Each time I sat, I heard a small creak. I thought maybe
it was the workbench but I figured I'd look around. Found out it was one of
the inner structural members of the seat. Didn't crack at the glue line (proof
that the glue is stronger than the wood) it split about 1/8" from the glue
line, right down the grain. What I think may be the cause is that there is so
little support for the wood at that point, other than the glue on the ply and
end grain.
So, If I remove the member, what's a good way to do it without ruining the seat.
I thought I might just pry the split section appart, apply some epoxy in the
crack and clamp together. Then add a plywood gusset beneath the back frame
member and the 4 other members, tying them all together. Any opions here?
Also, wondering if others are using T88 as filler on occassion where small gaps
in joints appear or where plywood gussets are held down. I've come accross a
few situations where the plywood, although I staple it down, leaves a small gap
(1/16" or so). Wondering if filling this void is acceptable.
And lastly, any people here fly around the West Virginia mountainous areas? I'm
planning a trip later in the summer and could use some feedback on my plans.
If so, contact me directly at tmbrant@usfamily.net
Thanks!
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Split Axle Springs |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com>
I called Precision Punch & Plastic Co. this afternoon and ordered a pair
of XH56 Lamina die springs for the Piet. The price was $28.77 ea plus
$3.00 S&H and whatever UPS charges to ship them to me. The XH56 are the
heavy duty ones. They should be here mid next week or so. They will ship
them tommorrow.
Dennis Engelkenjohn
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
At 9:53 PM -0400 06/03/03, D. Engelkenjohn wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com>
>
>I looked in the archives per Kips suggestion and found:
>
> H56 Lamina is a brand and they are available at $17.25 ea. through:
>
> Precision Punch and Plastics
> Minnetonka, MN (800) 227-0690
>
> The springs are also available in extra heavy duty, : XH56 Lamina and
>are about twice as strong as the regular. Duane Woolsey recommended the
>heavier duty in June of '99, said his Piet sagged down too far with the
>weaker ones.
>
> The John Deere spring is Part # T143444 and cost was $12.00 ea.
>
>Dennis Engelkenjohn
Thanks Dennis, I knew my memory wasn't fuzzy on this one. Anyone know how
the John Deere springs compare to the heavy-duty Lamina springs?
BTW, what types of payment does PP&P accept?
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Split Axle Springs |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com>
Kip & Beth Gardner wrote:
>--
>
>I used a Mastercard, never asked about anything else.
>
>Thanks Dennis, I knew my memory wasn't fuzzy on this one. Anyone know how
>the John Deere springs compare to the heavy-duty Lamina springs?
>
>BTW, what types of payment does PP&P accept?
>
>Kip Gardner
>
>North Canton, OH
>
>
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Chords, aero not music |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Chords on J-3's (and yes, they used a USA 35B airfoil) were 60". I think
the Aeronca was the same chord, but don't know for sure, nor do I know what
airfoil they used. I don't think it was a Clark Y because that has a flat
bottom and a Champ wing has a slight undercamber.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Bailey
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chords, aero not music
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Daniel Bailey" <dbceltic@micoks.net>
>Would someone in the know, and that's most of you, list the chords and NACA
>numbers of the wings of the Cub and aeronca. Would be interesting to
compare
>the airfoils to the BHP FC10.
Don't know chords offhand, but Aeroncas, depending on model were NACA 4412
or Clark Y. Piper Cubs were USA 35B. Good resource for this stuff is:
http://www.aae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html "The incomplete guide to
airfoil usage". Can't find my airfoil book, anybody got the ordinates for
these airfoils? Lift curve?
Dan Bailey
Paola, KS
(Building ribs)
---
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|