---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/06/03: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:34 AM - movie (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 07:06 AM - SAA Fly-in (Gadd, Skip) 3. 07:47 AM - Bolts (cat_designs@juno.com) 4. 08:00 AM - Rudder Pedals (cat_designs@juno.com) 5. 08:03 AM - Re: Bolts (DJ Vegh) 6. 08:19 AM - Re: Rudder Pedals (Isablcorky@aol.com) 7. 09:19 AM - model a engine (Richard Navratril) 8. 11:28 AM - Re: Bolts (Mike) 9. 12:00 PM - Re: Bolts (DJ Vegh) 10. 12:18 PM - Re: Rudder Pedals (rambog@erols.com) 11. 01:03 PM - Re: Rudder Pedals (cat_designs@juno.com) 12. 01:17 PM - Re: Bolts (cat_designs@juno.com) 13. 02:25 PM - Re: Rudder Pedals (Gene Rambo) 14. 03:00 PM - Re: Rudder Pedals (Isablcorky@aol.com) 15. 08:09 PM - Re: Rudder Pedals (Jack Phillips) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:40 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: movie --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" HUBBLUGG@aol.com wrote- >Please see the attached file. This list doesn't accept attachments (good thing, too!) If you have something in the way of photos, video clips, or other information to share, post it to one of the many available sites for things like this and then give us the URL and a description of what you've posted. I can pretty much guarantee you that nobody in their right mind is going to willingly accept an attachment with no description of what it is, nor will they go take a look at a site without you indicating why they should want to go there. Too many viruses and other bad stuff floating around out there these days. Be specific, make it interesting, and make it easy for folks to find what you're offering. Like this; an image of a Pietenpol fuselage in the framing stage: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/pietfuse.jpg Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:48 AM PST US From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: Pietenpol-List: SAA Fly-in --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" Just received the latest issue of To Fly with a flyer for the SAA Gathering June 13-14-15 at Urbana Illinois. First on the list of forums is the Pietenpol forum Friday morning by Larry Williams, I assume our own Piet list Larry Williams. At this point the weather doesn't look VFR from Atlanta anyway the Skyhawk will still be in annual, so I'll be driving. Looking forward to seeing lister's and all other Pietenpol people there. Skip in Atlanta, Map Quest says 10.5 hours from Urbana. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't know what kind. Thanks Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit. On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in California and I was up late building. Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them? Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:19 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire. If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases) DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't know what kind. > > Thanks > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:40 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Chris, Mr Johnson, the test pilot, will probably pick up on your message and in time will probably give you an answer. Corky ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:21 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratril" Subject: Pietenpol-List: model a engine --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" Hey all Check out the nice Model A engine in June, Sport Aviation Pg 68. Anybody know what that costs? Dick ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts From: Mike --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike A quick word of caution: Do not, under any circumstances, use safety wire in a cotter pin application. A cotter pin is designed to resist the shearing action of a castellated nut against a drilled bolt shank and safety wire is not. Use safety wire in tension applications (like where it tends to pull a nut tighter). Mike Hardaway on 6/6/03 8:02, DJ Vegh at aircamper@imagedv.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened > with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire. > > If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut > is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases) > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com >> >> >> I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding > the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all > drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking > bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you > should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually > buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you > sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't > know what kind. >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> Sacramento, CA >> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:59 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I should have been more clear.... I meant safety wire in a drilled bolt head to prevent rotation.... thanks for the clarification From: Mike To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike A quick word of caution: Do not, under any circumstances, use safety wire in a cotter pin application. A cotter pin is designed to resist the shearing action of a castellated nut against a drilled bolt shank and safety wire is not. Use safety wire in tension applications (like where it tends to pull a nut tighter). Mike Hardaway on 6/6/03 8:02, DJ Vegh at aircamper@imagedv.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened > with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire. > > If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut > is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases) > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com >> >> >> I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding > the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all > drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking > bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you > should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually > buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you > sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't > know what kind. >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> Sacramento, CA >> = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:06 PM PST US From: "rambog@erols.com" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rambog@erols.com" If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear. Gene Original Message: ----------------- From: cat_designs@juno.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit. On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in California and I was up late building. Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them? Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com Gene One thing I know I am going to due is use tubing to connect them to the rudder bar. I think it is a much simpler installation and a more elegant looking solution. The only problem I see with hanging them off the firewall is the firewall is only 1/6th inch ply whereas the floor is 1/4 inch. Maybe too many firewalls were getting broken in use. I had forgotten about this being different then the F&G plans. Guess I will try it out tonight and see how it works. You are correct about having to move the mounting lugs farther away from the firewall if I slant them differently then the plans. It should not matter where I attach them as long as I leave enough room for them to travel. One other thing, the rudder pedal also seem to wide for my tastes. But then again I don't plan on sitting up front very often. Chris Sacramento, CA --- "rambog@erols.com" wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rambog@erols.com" If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear. Gene Original Message: ----------------- From: cat_designs@juno.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit. On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in California and I was up late building. Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them? Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com Oh yah I had forgotten about the cotter pins. If I understand this right wire for the head, pins for the castle nuts and no self locking on moving parts. Wouldn't you only use drilled heads when you are NOT using a nut you can secure? Such as a tapped hole or blind nut. Thanks Chris Sacramento, CA --- "DJ Vegh" wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I should have been more clear.... I meant safety wire in a drilled bolt head to prevent rotation.... thanks for the clarification From: Mike To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bolts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike A quick word of caution: Do not, under any circumstances, use safety wire in a cotter pin application. A cotter pin is designed to resist the shearing action of a castellated nut against a drilled bolt shank and safety wire is not. Use safety wire in tension applications (like where it tends to pull a nut tighter). Mike Hardaway on 6/6/03 8:02, DJ Vegh at aircamper@imagedv.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > If one parts being held with the bolt rotates then it needs to be fastened > with a drilled bolt shank and castle nut and a cotter pin or safety wire. > > If the pieces are being held together do not rotate, then a nylon lock nut > is sufficient (firewall forward excluded in some cases) > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com >> >> >> I was sitting here wondering about all the bolts we need to use to holding > the fittings, pulleys, and controls to the plane. Do you (I) use all > drilled shank bolts so I can safety wire them or should I use self locking > bolts (the kind with the plastic insert)? Is there certain places you > should use one or the other? It seems so simple until you need to actually > buy some then that little voice in the back of your head says "Are you > sure?". So what kind of bolts should I get? I know what length but I don't > know what kind. >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> Sacramento, CA >> = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:01 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" It does not bolt to the firewall, but to the oak cross member, much more strength than the 1/4" ply floor, so that cannot be the reason. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > Gene > > One thing I know I am going to due is use tubing to connect them to the rudder bar. I think it is a much simpler installation and a more elegant looking solution. The only problem I see with hanging them off the firewall is the firewall is only 1/6th inch ply whereas the floor is 1/4 inch. Maybe too many firewalls were getting broken in use. I had forgotten about this being different then the F&G plans. Guess I will try it out tonight and see how it works. > > You are correct about having to move the mounting lugs farther away from the firewall if I slant them differently then the plans. It should not matter where I attach them as long as I leave enough room for them to travel. One other thing, the rudder pedal also seem to wide for my tastes. But then again I don't plan on sitting up front very often. > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > --- "rambog@erols.com" wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rambog@erols.com" > > If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them > back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before > you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which > show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the > firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer > why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now > trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come > up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear. > > Gene > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: cat_designs@juno.com > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:58:36 GMT > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit. > On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are > sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder > is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they > seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat > ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel > when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted > away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in > California and I was up late building. > > Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them? > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:56 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Gene, May I make a small statement on the subject of rudder pedals. Place the rudder bar forward for the front pilot. Put your pedals with Cessna style brake cyl for rear pilot. Connect the two with 3/8 4130 tubing and connect the rudder horn to the pedals with cable. Taut fit without return springs. This is the fab I'm using for Repiet. Corky ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:30 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" On Mine (long fuselage version) I installed the front rudder pedals such that they bottom out on the firewall at full rudder deflection, saving me from having to add a stop. I used 5/16" tubing to connect them to the rudder bar so no return springs are needed and at neutral rudder the front rudder pedals are just about perpendicular to the floorboard. Feels fine in my basement. We'll see how it does in the air this fall. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rambog@erols.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rambog@erols.com" If you slanted them away, or even vertical, you would have to move them back substantially from the firewall or they would hit the firewall before you got to full rudder travel. I kind of like the original plans which show the pedals hanging down from the cross brace at the top of the firewall. I have asked numerous people, though, and cannot get an answer why Bernie moved away from this system, pluses or minuses. I am just now trying to figure out how I am going to mount my front pedals. If you come up with any good ideas, I'd like to hear. Gene Original Message: ----------------- From: cat_designs@juno.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com I am in the process of installing the rudder pedal in the front cockpit. On the plans they are tilted towards the back of the plane(if you are sitting in the front seat the tops are tilted towards you when the rudder is centered). I was testing them out before I drilled the holes and they seemed to be awkward to use. Has anyone on the list used the front seat ruder pedals while flying and do you have an opinion on the way they feel when flying? I think they would be better if they were vertical or slanted away from you. Does this make any sense it's still early out here in California and I was up late building. Corky what does your Test Pilot think of them? Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!