---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/07/03: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:35 AM - knobby tires (Carl Loar) 2. 03:41 PM - Re: enough rain already (Gene Rambo) 3. 06:11 PM - Re: knobby tires (del magsam) 4. 06:46 PM - Re: knobby tires (Carl Loar) 5. 08:44 PM - Re: knobby tires (del magsam) 6. 08:46 PM - Re: knobby tires (chris a Tracy) 7. 09:33 PM - Weld 4130 steel (chris a Tracy) 8. 09:35 PM - Re: knobby tires (chris a Tracy) 9. 10:50 PM - Re: knobby tires (clif) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:57 AM PST US From: "Carl Loar" Subject: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" There seems to be a concern about the knobby motorcycle tires I have on my piet. I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets you slide on the grass. But those same smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. Maybe later I will opt for smoothys but I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the ones I have now. I don't plan on doing a lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My early flights will be in calm weather. And if I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was asphalt. I thought I would throw this out and get a feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. Carl check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:30 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: enough rain already --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" Hey Corky, you know it has rained wayyyy too much in 'Ol Virginia when I was working on the Piet in my hangar today listening to the thundering rainfall (all day) and I looked down and about a 4" crayfish was crawling across the floor at my feet. I'm gonna convert the Piet fuselage into an ark, might get some use out of it. Gene ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:09 PM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam Carl the pics of the torque tube looks almost like the parts were brazed, not so, I hope. Del --- Carl Loar wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby > motorcycle tires I have on my > piet. > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets > you slide on the grass. > But those same > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. > Maybe later I will opt for > smoothys but > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the > ones I have now. I don't > plan on doing a > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My > early flights will be in > calm weather. And if > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was > asphalt. I thought I would > throw this out and get a > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. > Carl > check out my webpage at > http://members.core.com/skycarl > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:31 PM PST US From: "Carl Loar" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" Del,,, Originally,, the control tubes were brazed, then I redid them after learning that was a no no. That was another pain in the butt lesson I learned but the knowledge never stops on here. So what do you think about the tire deal? Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "del magsam" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam > > Carl > the pics of the torque tube looks almost like the > parts were brazed, not so, I hope. > Del > --- Carl Loar wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > > > > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby > > motorcycle tires I have on my > > piet. > > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets > > you slide on the grass. > > But those same > > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. > > Maybe later I will opt for > > smoothys but > > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the > > ones I have now. I don't > > plan on doing a > > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My > > early flights will be in > > calm weather. And if > > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was > > asphalt. I thought I would > > throw this out and get a > > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. > > Carl > > check out my webpage at > > http://members.core.com/skycarl > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > Del-New Richmond, Wi > "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:17 PM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam I don't know the answer to that for sure, I can't think that there would be a problem, my sonex has treaded go cart or garden tracter style wheels on it. and it works fine Del --- Carl Loar wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > > Del,,, Originally,, the control tubes were brazed, > then I redid them after > learning that was a no no. That was another pain in > the butt lesson I > learned but the knowledge never stops on here. So > what do you think > about the tire deal? > Carl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "del magsam" > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam > > > > > Carl > > the pics of the torque tube looks almost like the > > parts were brazed, not so, I hope. > > Del > > --- Carl Loar wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl > Loar" > > > > > > > > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby > > > motorcycle tires I have on my > > > piet. > > > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it > lets > > > you slide on the grass. > > > But those same > > > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt > runways. > > > Maybe later I will opt for > > > smoothys but > > > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with > the > > > ones I have now. I don't > > > plan on doing a > > > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My > > > early flights will be in > > > calm weather. And if > > > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was > > > asphalt. I thought I would > > > throw this out and get a > > > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. > > > Carl > > > check out my webpage at > > > http://members.core.com/skycarl > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > > any other > > > Forums. > > > > > > latest messages. > > > List members. > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > > > > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Del-New Richmond, Wi > > "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires From: chris a Tracy --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: chris a Tracy I don't see why knobby tires would grip any different then treaded or smooth. Actually knobby tires grip less on asphalt then smooth tires do. When was the last time you saw a street bike with knobby tires. You could always cut off the knobs with a razor blade and smooth them down with a disk sander to make smooth tires. Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weld 4130 steel From: chris a Tracy --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: chris a Tracy I think it needs to be said again so no one else has to learn the hard way like Carl did. If you use 4130 steel it is prone to cracking if you braze it. Do not braze 4130. Yes I know bike frames are built out of 4130 and they are brazed with a lot of success but if they brake you will most likely not be killed. Ever book on aircraft welding I found says not to braze 4130. These same books also say you should not weld a joint that has previously been brazed. The braze material will contaminate the molten metal and make a weaker weld. Now, if you use 1020 steel like the plans call for you can braze it just fine and it will be good joint. There is nothing wrong with using 1020 steel to build an airplane as long as the plane was designed to use it. A lot of the antique airplane are built out of it. The only part that BHP calls out as needing to be made out of 4130, that I can find, is the rudder bar. Remember, even though most people are using 4130 for everything IT IS A CHANGE FROM THE PLANS so you need to due your homework on how this change will affect your building process. And my study of this change is to weld 4130 in a draft free area using a welding method that heats up an area of approximately one half to one inches on each side of the weld bringing the temperature up slowly and after welding you should allow the material to cool slowly in a draft free area. Knowing this I choose to gas weld all my parts and reheat the weld as well as an area around the welds to release any built in stress. I do all me welding in my garage with the doors shut to keep the drafts down. I'm not an expert on any of this so you should do your own homework to satisfy your own fears. Sorry, I don't mean to step on any toes but his is one of the things that comes up often in the list archives and I just wanted to make sure any new people out there get this valuable information. Chris Sacramento, CA On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 21:54:11 -0400 "Carl Loar" writes: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > > Del,,, Originally,, the control tubes were brazed, then I redid them > after > learning that was a no no. That was another pain in the butt lesson > I > learned but the knowledge never stops on here. So what do you think > about the tire deal? > Carl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "del magsam" > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam > > > > > Carl > > the pics of the torque tube looks almost like the > > parts were brazed, not so, I hope. > > Del > > --- Carl Loar wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > > > > > > > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby > > > motorcycle tires I have on my > > > piet. > > > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets > > > you slide on the grass. > > > But those same > > > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. > > > Maybe later I will opt for > > > smoothys but > > > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the > > > ones I have now. I don't > > > plan on doing a > > > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My > > > early flights will be in > > > calm weather. And if > > > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was > > > asphalt. I thought I would > > > throw this out and get a > > > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. > > > Carl > > > check out my webpage at > > > http://members.core.com/skycarl > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > > any other > > > Forums. > > > > > > latest messages. > > > List members. > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > > > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Del-New Richmond, Wi > > "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires From: chris a Tracy --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: chris a Tracy Looking good Carl, what kind of wheels are you using? Chris Sacramento, CA On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:43:21 -0400 "Carl Loar" writes: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby motorcycle tires I have > on my > piet. > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets you slide on the > grass. > But those same > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. Maybe later I will > opt for > smoothys but > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the ones I have now. > I don't > plan on doing a > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My early flights will > be in > calm weather. And if > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was asphalt. I thought I > would > throw this out and get a > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. > Carl > check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl > > > > > > > > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:25 PM PST US From: clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif I would think the knobbies would be better for crosswind as the knobs would tend to " walk". Each one would grip, bend, release in turn. There's a certain amount of this with any tire but the knobs are independant of each other and thus have a greater range of movement. Also the tire casing's deformation in the direction of force will be greater with bias ply tires than radials. I remember when all cars had bias and they would pull badly when doing things like crossing train tracks at an angle. So for cross- wind landings bias might be better- built in castoring. Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby motorcycle tires I have on my > piet. > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets you slide on the grass. > But those same > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. Maybe later I will opt for > smoothys but > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the ones I have now. I don't > plan on doing a > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. >