---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/13/03: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 PM - Nicopress Tool (cat_designs@juno.com) 2. 12:18 PM - Re: Nicopress Tool (TomTravis@aol.com) 3. 01:12 PM - Re: Nicopress Tool (cat_designs@juno.com) 4. 01:30 PM - Re: Nicopress Tool (w b evans) 5. 01:56 PM - Re: Nicopress Tool (Cy Galley) 6. 04:56 PM - one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks (w b evans) 7. 07:04 PM - Re: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks (Jack Phillips) 8. 07:09 PM - Re: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks (Gene Rambo) 9. 07:19 PM - Re: Nicopress Tool (Gary Gower) 10. 07:32 PM - Re: Nicopress Tool (Gary Gower) 11. 07:40 PM - Re: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks (Stefan Vorkoetter) 12. 08:09 PM - Re: Nicopress Tool (Carl Loar) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com Seeing as there is not traffic on the list today I figured I would ask this. How are people dealing with not owning a Nicopress tool. Did you go out and buy one? Where did you get it? What price did you pay? The ones in Aircraft Spruce's catalog are $36.50 for the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" and $72.85 for "Locoloc Handswaging tool" and $169.95 for the "Nicopress Tool". Does anyone know if the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" works? Is the "Locoloc Handswaging tool" the same thing as a nicopress tool but only for smaller dimeter wire? I doubt I can find one these things to borrow so I will most likely have to buy one when I need it. Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:53 PM PST US From: TomTravis@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TomTravis@aol.com Chris, Try your local EAA chapter. They sometimes have loaners. Tom Travis ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com I have not been impress by my local EAA chapters. They have not been any help and not interested in helping others unless you are building an RV or fast glass something or other, most are not even interested in building. The chapters might have one but I have given up on the whole EAA thing and I am no longer an EAA member because of it. I could go on about my feeling of the EAA in general but that is not appropriate for this list. I'm very jealous of all of you who have good EAA chapters and people willing to help you. This list is about the only support I have to turn to so thanks to all of you being out there. I don't mean to jump on your toes but the EAA is one of my HOT buttons and my wife tells me I am not allowed to talk about it any more. Sorry to rant, I think I will go hang out with Corky then we can complain to each other until we a blue in the face. Chris Sacramento, CA Please Do not archive --- TomTravis@aol.com wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TomTravis@aol.com Chris, Try your local EAA chapter. They sometimes have loaners. Tom Travis The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:38 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Just my input to say that the "economy" version works fine. Did two projects with one. Just have to make sure the threads are lubed. sometimes they are better because some of the cables have to be swaged in a tight spot in the plane. Like any swage tool, make sure you check the crimps with the go/no go dimension that is given with the tool. Never had a bad one with the cheap one. walt evans ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > Seeing as there is not traffic on the list today I figured I would ask this. How are people dealing with not owning a Nicopress tool. Did you go out and buy one? Where did you get it? What price did you pay? The ones in Aircraft Spruce's catalog are $36.50 for the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" and $72.85 for "Locoloc Handswaging tool" and $169.95 for the "Nicopress Tool". Does anyone know if the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" works? Is the "Locoloc Handswaging tool" the same thing as a nicopress tool but only for smaller dimeter wire? I doubt I can find one these things to borrow so I will most likely have to buy one when I need it. > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:01 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Go to your local EAA chapter and ask around. Many Chapters have a tool library. Or do a mechanics search on the landings. I found over 100 and that is just thru the "Cs". Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > Seeing as there is not traffic on the list today I figured I would ask this. How are people dealing with not owning a Nicopress tool. Did you go out and buy one? Where did you get it? What price did you pay? The ones in Aircraft Spruce's catalog are $36.50 for the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" and $72.85 for "Locoloc Handswaging tool" and $169.95 for the "Nicopress Tool". Does anyone know if the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" works? Is the "Locoloc Handswaging tool" the same thing as a nicopress tool but only for smaller dimeter wire? I doubt I can find one these things to borrow so I will most likely have to buy one when I need it. > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:22 PM PST US From: "w b evans" "piet discussion" Subject: Pietenpol-List: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Hopefully doing my last 1 1/4 hr tomorrow and need to get these numbers for the phase 1 signoff. Since I have a vertical speed guage, can I assume that the "best rate of climb would be the fastest that I can go and still maintaining the highest FPM climb? And the best angle of climb would be to pull it back till the rate of climb starts to drop off , and that would be best angle of climb? thanks, walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:25 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Sorry Walt, that's too easy. There were some pretty good discussions in Sport Aviation a few months ago about how to do these tests. Youn might want to dig through those, or go to your local Barnes and Nobles and buy a book called "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft by Vaughn Askue - full of good stuff. Basically for rate of climb, you will want to do a series of tests at different airspeeds and time it for a minute, holding the airspeed as constant as possible (helps to do it early in the morning when the air is still) and see what change you see on the altimeter in that minute. Try one airspeed, then go back to your starting altitude (the climb rate will vary with altitude so you need to do the tests at approximately the same starting altitude) - you can do best glide speed tests on the way down, and then change the airspeed by a couple of knots and do it again. Plot the result and you will have a curve of climb rate (in feet per minute) versus airspeed. Where the curve peaks is your best rate of climb speed. Best angle of climb is done by flying along a road with two distinct landmarks, like a powerline crossing, that you can tell when you have passed. Fly along the road at the test airspeed and note the altimter setting at your first landmark. Fly at that airspeed until you cross the second landmark and note your altitude. Do it again with different airspeeds and plot the results on a curve of altitude climbed versus airspeed. The airspeed that gave you the most altitude climbed between your two fixed landmarks is your best angle of climb speed. You would do well to do it on a windless day, or do each speed twice, once in each direction and average the results. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b evans Subject: Pietenpol-List: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Hopefully doing my last 1 1/4 hr tomorrow and need to get these numbers for the phase 1 signoff. Since I have a vertical speed guage, can I assume that the "best rate of climb would be the fastest that I can go and still maintaining the highest FPM climb? And the best angle of climb would be to pull it back till the rate of climb starts to drop off , and that would be best angle of climb? thanks, walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:53 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" Vy, best rate of climb, is the speed at which the airplane will gain the most altitude per unit of time. Vx, best angle of climb (I can only remember because an "x" is all angles), is the speed at which the airplane will gain the most altitude in a given horizontal distance. Vy would be the speed at which you can maintain the maximum rate of climb on your VVI. If you can maintain 600 fpm, and that is the highest ROC you can hold, that speed is your Vy. (the highest rate per unit of time - a minute) Vx is usually lower than Vy. Suppose you can climb at 55 mph, but at that speed can only maintain 500 fpm, while at 60 mph you can maintain 600 fpm. This is where you have to do some math. At 55 mph and 500 fpm, you gain 968 feet per 100 feet you move forward. At 60 mph and 600 fpm, you only gain 880 feet per 100 feet forward. (I hope my math is right, but it still makes my point if it is not). Therefore, 55 mph would be your best angle while 60 mph would be your best rate. So, the short answer to the question is that you can read your best rate off of the VVI, but have to calculate your best angle by recording your best maintainable ROC at different airspeeds and comparing them. Make sense? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "w b evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" > > Hopefully doing my last 1 1/4 hr tomorrow and need to get these numbers for the phase 1 signoff. > Since I have a vertical speed guage, can I assume that the "best rate of climb would be the fastest that I can go and still maintaining the highest FPM climb? And the best angle of climb would be to pull it back till the rate of climb starts to drop off , and that would be best angle of climb? > thanks, > walt evans > NX140DL > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:00 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower Here I own the only nico pliers in the city, all builders use it (now 5 planes in progress) my problem is keeping track of its location, we have "loose" them for about a month a couple of times, but they eventualy get back home. Since last time, I ask $200.00 Dls full returnable deposit, now always, come back. We are thinking of renting especial tools for a nominal fee and save the money, then with that money buy some more "one of a kind" tools for all of us... We are so few builders around here that is a good idea, now that we almost have a certfied repair shop in the Aerodrome it might work.. Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Mexico. --- cat_designs@juno.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > Seeing as there is not traffic on the list today I figured I would > ask this. How are people dealing with not owning a Nicopress tool. > Did you go out and buy one? Where did you get it? What price did you > pay? The ones in Aircraft Spruce's catalog are $36.50 for the > "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" and $72.85 for "Locoloc Handswaging > tool" and $169.95 for the "Nicopress Tool". Does anyone know if the > "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" works? Is the "Locoloc Handswaging > tool" the same thing as a nicopress tool but only for smaller dimeter > wire? I doubt I can find one these things to borrow so I will most > likely have to buy one when I need it. > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:52 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower With us is diferent, we left the chapter (im still an EAA member) because of problems recieving the magazines, they prefer to buy kitplanes at the store than recieve half the magazines a year from mail, I know is an international membership problem, probably is the mail system somewhere(there could be an aviation enthusiast that recieves free magazines :-) But there is nothing to do, we keep as a close club, also helpfull group, without memberships. We share magazines, knowledge and tools and try to visit all the projects at least one day a month, also we try to take care of newbies so they dont get hurt. Other than the magazines, there is nothing extra foreign Chapters recieve from EAA, we dont use insurance and our articles were never published... Saludos Gary Gower. --- cat_designs@juno.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > I have not been impress by my local EAA chapters. They have not been > any help and not interested in helping others unless you are building > an RV or fast glass something or other, most are not even interested > in building. The chapters might have one but I have given up on the > whole EAA thing and I am no longer an EAA member because of it. I > could go on about my feeling of the EAA in general but that is not > appropriate for this list. I'm very jealous of all of you who have > good EAA chapters and people willing to help you. This list is about > the only support I have to turn to so thanks to all of you being out > there. > > I don't mean to jump on your toes but the EAA is one of my HOT > buttons and my wife tells me I am not allowed to talk about it any > more. > > Sorry to rant, I think I will go hang out with Corky then we can > complain to each other until we a blue in the face. > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > Please Do not archive > --- TomTravis@aol.com wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TomTravis@aol.com > > Chris, > > Try your local EAA chapter. They sometimes have loaners. > > > > Tom Travis > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:13 PM PST US From: Stefan Vorkoetter Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: one last quick discussion on Vx and Vy, thanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Stefan Vorkoetter w b evans wrote: > And the best angle of climb would be to pull it back till the > rate of climb starts to drop off , and that would be best angle of climb? That sounds dubious to me. I'm no aerodynamicist (well, I guess I'm an armchair aerodynamicist), but my physics and geometry tell me that the best angle of climb airspeed would be the one where the vertical speed divided by the airspeed is the highest (strictly speaking, it would be vertical speed divided by the airspeed-projected-onto-the-ground, but the angles involved are small enough that you'd never be able to tell the difference). So if you try a bunch of airspeeds, and record the vertical speed at each airspeed, you can find the one that gives you the best vertical speed to airspeed ratio. For example, in a C152, the best rate of climb speed is 67 kt, and that will get you about 700fpm (for some loading and density altitude). The best angle speed is 55 kt, which might get you only 650fpm. However, 650/55 is bigger than 700/67, hence you'll be climbing at a steeper angle. Stefan Vorkoetter ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:35 PM PST US From: "Carl Loar" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" Chris,,, If you have a Tractor Supply Co. near you,, they have a press that will work great just like the one for 150 plus dollars for about 50 bucks. It will press three sizes and they just happen to be the ones you need. It doesn't have cutters on it but what the hey. Check it out. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress Tool > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com > > > Seeing as there is not traffic on the list today I figured I would ask this. How are people dealing with not owning a Nicopress tool. Did you go out and buy one? Where did you get it? What price did you pay? The ones in Aircraft Spruce's catalog are $36.50 for the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" and $72.85 for "Locoloc Handswaging tool" and $169.95 for the "Nicopress Tool". Does anyone know if the "Economy Nicopress Swaging Tool" works? Is the "Locoloc Handswaging tool" the same thing as a nicopress tool but only for smaller dimeter wire? I doubt I can find one these things to borrow so I will most likely have to buy one when I need it. > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > >