---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/19/03: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - Re: knobby tires (John McNarry) 2. 05:30 AM - panel builder (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 05:42 AM - Re: panel builder (Ken Rickards) 4. 06:29 AM - Colorado Piets (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 10:02 AM - Split axel landing gear (cat_designs@juno.com) 6. 11:07 AM - Re: panel builder (Jon Botsford) 7. 01:40 PM - Fw: knobby tires (Lauritz Larsen) 8. 02:38 PM - Landing gear (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 9. 03:41 PM - Re: Sentimental Journey (Malcolm Morrison) 10. 05:04 PM - split axle landing gear (D. Engelkenjohn) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:48 AM PST US From: "John McNarry" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" Yet another thought: I don't remember where I first saw or read about shaving the knobs off of knobby tires for that vintage look. But here are some points I discovered while experimenting with old 21" knobbys to get the technique down pat. The tire carcass for knobbies is much heavier than the same size street tire. The reason, I assume, is to get the stability required when driving on the outer knobs. I also sectioned though two old tires to see the ply structure. Knobbies definitely have more plys. The shaved and sanded tire weighed about the same as a street tire. I haven't recorded the weights but I did weight the amputated knobs and both tire types. I cut the lugs off with a sharp utility knife wetted with dish soap. Followed by 24 grit disks in a large hand held angle grinder. (Stinks, lots of rubber dust) I let the tire rotate on the wheel during this operation. Someone else, perhaps in an EAA publication, polished the sanded tire by doing "burnouts" on grass with the tire while it was mounted on a motorcycle. This is not an option for me as 21" tires are not used on the rear of bikes. On a Piet the difference may not be much but the shaved smooth look might reduce drag? John Mc -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lauritz Larsen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Lauritz Larsen" Another thought: I remember reading an article which was probably one of Bob Whittier's re smooth tires. It was noted that in addition to the sliding on grass aspect which was thrown off at speed splattering the wings and tail feathers. Lou Larsen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Loar" Subject: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby motorcycle tires I have on my > piet. > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets you slide on the grass. > But those same > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. Maybe later I will opt for > smoothys but > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the ones I have now. I don't > plan on doing a > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My early flights will be in > calm weather. And if > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was asphalt. I thought I would > throw this out and get a > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. > Carl > check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:39 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: panel builder --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Ken wrote- >Just went on line yesterday to epanelbuilder.com. This site was in >Sport Aviation, June edition. >All panels are to scale as are the instruments. Hmmm... this raises a question. As it turns out, there was no Pietenpol panel available on the site this time last year so I drew one up to scale in CAD and forwarded it to the site owner, and he put it up for our use. My question is, since the panel on the epanelbuilder site is for a Pietenpol, how different is the panel on a GN-1? Side note: I'll be hitting the road tomorrow morning headed up to Boulder, CO to pick up my daughter. On the way, I plan to stop in Salida to see John Dilatush's Subaru-powered Piet up in that rarefied mountain-high air. Pictures next week, if the side trip works out... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:01 AM PST US From: Ken Rickards Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: panel builder --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards Good question... Not having the dimensions of the Piet panel, I assumed that the GN1 panel would be the same size! I am making my fuse 2" wider than plans so the panel will not be per plans. Would be interesting to hear from anyone that has seen both panels! Ken -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga [mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: panel builder --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Ken wrote- >Just went on line yesterday to epanelbuilder.com. This site was in >Sport Aviation, June edition. >All panels are to scale as are the instruments. Hmmm... this raises a question. As it turns out, there was no Pietenpol panel available on the site this time last year so I drew one up to scale in CAD and forwarded it to the site owner, and he put it up for our use. My question is, since the panel on the epanelbuilder site is for a Pietenpol, how different is the panel on a GN-1? Side note: I'll be hitting the road tomorrow morning headed up to Boulder, CO to pick up my daughter. On the way, I plan to stop in Salida to see John Dilatush's Subaru-powered Piet up in that rarefied mountain-high air. Pictures next week, if the side trip works out... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:10 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Colorado Piets --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" For that matter, are there any Piet owners/builders/pilots in or around the Jefferson County Airport in the Boulder/Broomfield area? I'll be staying the night in Boulder and would be glad to buy a round... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split axel landing gear From: cat_designs@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: cat_designs@juno.com The time for a decision on what type of landing gear I am going to build is drawing near. I am hoping by the end of summer to finally have my fuselage on the gear. I always thought I was going to build the wood strait axel gear but so many of you are building it I figured I might want to be different and build the steel split axel gear. Last night as I was looking at the 1933 plans for the split axel gear, I noticed that the drawings are different then the gear used on the Last Original Air Camper built by BHP. The plans show that the shock struts cross and the shock cords are near the top. On the modified gear the shock struts come together at a metal fitting about halfway up and the springs (no shock cords used) are below this fitting. I think this is similar to the Piper Cub gear. I also noticed a lot of the split axel geared Piets are using this setup. Anyone know how or better yet have the plans on how to build this gear? Take a look at this picture to see what I am talking about. www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=piet-lastoriginal.jpg&PhotoID=521 Also, on the plans it shows a List of Material required to build the split axel gear. Does anyone know where the 15 x 1x 1/2 strip steel is used? I cant seem to find where it is used on the plans. I hate trying to decide things like this. I think I should be building two planes so I can have both. Thanks Chris Sacramento, CA The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:08 AM PST US From: "Jon Botsford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: panel builder --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Rickards" Subject: Pietenpol-List: panel builder --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards Just went on line yesterday to epanelbuilder.com. This site was in Sport Aviation, June edition. For those of us that are currently building, this is a great tool. All panels are to scale as are the instruments. It gives you a really good idea of how your panel will look. I updated my web site with the panel I want for my GN1. I would appreciate any comments on the layout that I have chosen, link below is my web site. Ken GN1 2992 Canada http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Epietbuilder/index.htm ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:58 PM PST US From: "Lauritz Larsen" Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Lauritz Larsen" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauritz Larsen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires > Another thought: > > I remember reading an article which was probably one of Bob Whittier's re > smooth tires. It was noted that in addition to the sliding on grass aspect > , another attribute was reducing the accumulation of mud/crud on the tires > which was thrown off at speed splattering the wings and tail feathers. > > Lou Larsen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Loar" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 11:43 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: knobby tires > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" > > > > There seems to be a concern about the knobby motorcycle tires I have on my > > piet. > > I know most aircraft have smooth tires and it lets you slide on the grass. > > But those same > > smooth tires don't slide much on asphalt runways. Maybe later I will opt > for > > smoothys but > > I think that there shouldn't be a problem with the ones I have now. I > don't > > plan on doing a > > lot of heavy cross wind landings for a while. My early flights will be in > > calm weather. And if > > I do get a cross wind, I'll land like it was asphalt. I thought I would > > throw this out and get a > > feel for the groups opinions. Thanks as always. > > Carl > > check out my webpage at http://members.core.com/skycarl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:15 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Hello Chris: I built the plans gear with the cross shock struts and bungees at the top. After building the the shock struts the second time it dawned on me that I could have made the chore of installing the bungees so much easier by building these struts J-3 style--turning the lower 1 1/4" cross tube 90 degree to the top one, then welding it at the same distance from the top cross tube as the J-3 Cub. Then you can use off the shelf J-3 bungee cord rings and install them in seconds with a home made tool, rater than mess with the single 6' piece cord. Installing that 6' cord has been discussed on the list before, and it sounds like a real pain. I thought this was an original idea I came up with, but I've seen several Piets at Brodhead with shock struts built this way. On building the gear, I built a cradle fixture the same with and shape as my fus. bottom. This allowed me to build the gear "on the fuselage" without actually building it on the fuselage, I tack welded it together, than had a friend mig weld it. ( The wood kind of takes a beating ) When finished, I moved it to the fus. for fitting. You will need to move one gear leg foreward 1/16", and the other back 1/16" to give you 1/8 gap where the shock tubes cross each other, other wise they will hit and rub on each other. Then drill your holes. Getting your fuselage on the gear is a real physiological boost and a major turning point in your building. You didn't ask for all of this, but you got it any way. Good luck. See you at Brodhead. Leon S. Soon to move into a house with a real garage! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:04 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Morrison" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sentimental Journey --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Malcolm Morrison" Gene I'll be up there Friday evening. I live just 20 minutes away. Malcolm Morrison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sentimental Journey > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" > > Is anyone else on here planning on going to Sentimental Journey in Lock > Haven?? I am planning, last minute, to go up in my Travel Air, it looks > like the weather might be nice for the first time this > year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > I'd like to see/meet whoever is going . . . > > Gene > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:30 PM PST US From: "D. Engelkenjohn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: split axle landing gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn" I saw "the last original" last saturday at the SAA flyin at Champaign/Urbana, Ill. It was bought from Andrew Pietenpol by Bill Knight of Brodhead, Wisc. He may have an e-mail address, but I don't have it. Also there was Tom Brown of Unity, Wisc. who flew down with Bill. I was in Piet heaven! Both planes used that type of landing gear, but the last original used streamline tubing, although it doesn't look like it in the photo. I believe the 15" of 1 1/2" material is cut up and part is used at the junction where the springs attach and part is used down where the other end is attached at the axle as a gusset to give more strength. The streamline tubine is mashed flat and bent at the fuselage and a bolt goes through the landing gear fitting up through the ash 1 X 2 also. Why this gear isn't in the plans is beyond me. I too would like to know what the benefit if any there is to this setup. I took some pictures of the details of the two Piets, but they should both be at Brodhead this summer so people can look at the details they are interested in themselves. Dennis Engelkenjohn