Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - Corvair Engine Mount (Lynn & Doris Knoll)
2. 06:11 AM - Re: A-65 Intake manifold (Duane)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: A-65 Intake manifold (Christian Bobka)
4. 07:58 AM - shielded ignition. (Steve Eldredge)
5. 08:05 AM - Re: FAA's definition of "Electrical System" (Gary Gower)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: way more on brazing (Gary Gower)
7. 08:59 AM - Intro (Jim Ash)
8. 09:15 AM - Re: A-65 Intake manifold (Richard Navratril)
9. 09:22 AM - Re: Intro (del magsam)
10. 09:53 AM - Re: Intro (DJ Vegh)
11. 10:32 AM - Test (Leo Gates)
12. 10:44 AM - Re: A-65 Intake manifold (Isablcorky@aol.com)
13. 01:42 PM - Intake manifold (Isablcorky@aol.com)
14. 01:48 PM - Re: A-65 Intake manifold (Isablcorky@aol.com)
15. 02:49 PM - Re: shielded ignition. (Dave and Connie)
16. 03:56 PM - Corvair thoughts (Jim Ash)
17. 07:11 PM - Matronix list okay? (Larry Neal)
18. 08:54 PM - Re: Corvair thoughts (Ken Anderson)
19. 09:39 PM - Re: Corvair thoughts (Jim Ash)
20. 10:23 PM - Re: Corvair thoughts (Ken Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Corvair Engine Mount |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Lynn & Doris Knoll" <dknoll@cox.net>
I'm building a jig to weld up a engine mount per the BHP plans except will be using
the Wynne engine mount and spools. Does anyone have any other recommendations
as to changes in the BHP engine mount plans?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: A-65 Intake manifold |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Duane <duane@mo-net.com>
Hi Corky
I was looking for a manifold for an 0-200, and a man
in Kosciusko, Ms. Andrew Palmer who has manifolds
for the 65-cont. 39.95 each 49.95 with primer.
phone 1-662-289-4581.
Also Woody has cont. parts 1-800-279-3168 real nice man
to deal with.
Duane Stockton
Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
>
> Pieters
>
> Am in need of an A-65 Intake manifold part #4780.
>
> Had the complete engine, sent it to a local shop to have the cyls ground +15
> and even paid the guy. After 5 months, no work done, no telephone calls
> answered, I picked up everything last Monday. Some of the stuff was in another
guys
> shop 30 miles away for no explained reason. He also told me that it was going
> to cost double the initial price. It was good to get out with what I could.
> All was recovered except the intake manifold. I really don't care to go back
and
> push for its recovery. A bad thing is over and I don't want to revive it,
> soooooooooooooooooooooo if anyone can help me find a manifold I will be very
> grateful.
> I hope this request is in line with the spirit of this list.
>
> Corky in La
>
> Do not archive
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: A-65 Intake manifold |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Corky,
Is it Century or Sentry in Fort Worth? I know of a place called Sentry.
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Intake manifold
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
>
> No Chris,
> It was a local man here in Shreveport. I've since sent them to Century in
> Fort Worth after recommendations from several I trust.
> A bad scene which I'm happy to be rid of. It's tough enough to build these
> things without these unexpected obstacles.
> Corky
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | shielded ignition. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
I've been flying for 6 years with the unshielded mags in my A-65 powered
piet and just love flying simple, low and slow. Unfortunately we are
getting a tower at a nearby airport to handle the increased traffic. I
feel like I should start using my handheld. I've tried it though and I
get drowned out with engine noise at anything above half throttle.
Anyone have a solution? I've notice some shielding kits for some mags.
I've got Bendix SF4RN-8 mags.
Been there done that? Please share!
Steve e.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FAA's definition of "Electrical System" |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi
I found with Google an air generator almost at the bottom of the list:
http://www.airportclassified.com/ad_details.asp?offset=1740&ad_id=1171
Hope is not sold, and problem solved.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Christian Bobka <bobka@compuserve.com> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
> <bobka@compuserve.com>
>
> DJ,
>
> I remember when the rule on transponders came out and the "engine
> driven
> electrical system" was a hot item. Fortunately, you are correct that
> with a
> wind driven generator, you DO NOT need a xpndr.
>
> The Ward-Aero generator kit that appeared on many taylorcrafts and
> cubs,
> etc, used a Dayton brand Permanent magnet DC motor part number 4Z145
> availbale at Grainger's. It is rated 1/20 hp @ 1750 rpm at 12 vdc
> and 1/9
> hp @ 4000 rpm at 24vdc. Full load amps is 5.1 and overall length is
> 6.44".
> It sold a year or two ago (my catalog is old) for $80.80 list.
>
> It is important that the unit does not over rpm as the prop will self
> destruct and can kill or injury anyone in its path. Also the
> bearings may
> not be able to take the heat of over revving. At hi rpms, the unit
> may have
> a vibration problem as well.
>
> chris bobka
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DJ Vegh <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> >
> > I spoke with a couple DAR's today.
> >
> > The concensus was if I was using a wind driven generator I would in
> fact
> be
> > exempt from having to equip my aircraft with a xponder.
> >
> > They said that if you take FAR 91.215 as it is written, you only
> need a
> > xponder if you have an "engine driven electrical system".
> >
> > I have already done some initial tests on a wind generator. I
> have an RC
> > engine starter which is essentially a permanent magnet DC motor.
> It has
> > ball bearings for the commutator shaft and is designed for
> hi-torque
> > applications.
> >
> > I spun the starter at 2200 RPM (hooked up to my hand drill) and
> recorded
> > voltage of 6vdc. I hooked the starter up to another small dc motor
> and
> > applied a load to this small motor. I then spun the "generator" at
> 2200
> rpm
> > and recorded as much as 8 amps.
> >
> > I then spun it at about 4,500 rpm (via pulley and belt of my drill
> press)
> > and got approx 13 volts.
> >
> > Clearly this DC motor would work great as a DC generator driven by
> wind if
> I
> > mount a small propeller to it. I estimate that I would need it to
> turn
> > about 5,000 RPM under load. It would be able to provide at least
> 5-7 amps
> > continuous... This is within the duty range of the motor.
> >
> > Next I'm going to mount a 12x5 RC prop on it and do some "wind
> tunnel"
> tests
> > as I hang it off the side of my truck at about 75mph. I'll record
> voltage
> > and amps and see what it does.
> >
> > This should keep my battery topped off as I will only be drawing a
> couple
> > amps from the battery with the coil ignition and comm radio.
> >
> > This is the best way to get around Mode C xponder requirements if
> you live
> > within class B!
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > >
> > > I live and fly within a 30nm of Phoenix class B airspace so I am
> required
> > to
> > > have a xponder if I also have an "engine driven electrical
> system"
> > according
> > > to the FAR's.
> > >
> > > I'll be running a Corvair engine so I must have a battery since
> the
> 'Vair
> > > uses coil/points ignition.
> > >
> > > Here's my thought..... what if I used a wind driven generator
> instead
> > of
> > > alternator driven by the engine. Does this exclude me from
> having to
> > > operate a xponder??
> > >
> > > I really don't want to have to buy & install a
> transponder/altitude
> > encoder.
> > >
> > > DJ Vegh
> > > N74DV
> > > Mesa, AZ
> > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: way more on brazing |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Chris,
You are forgetting to ask the Fisherman, Maybe he can give us some
advice... :-) :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
PLEASE Do not Archive
--- Christian Bobka <bobka@compuserve.com> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
> <bobka@compuserve.com>
>
> Gene,
>
> I am looking for more info on this.
>
> Chris Bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gene Rambo <rambog@erols.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: way more on brazing
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo"
> <rambog@erols.com>
> >
> > At the risk of getting even more snyde responses, let me point out
> that
> the
> > numerous statements that have been forwarded merely say that
> brazing is
> not
> > acceptable for structural REPAIRS. That is not the same thing as
> saying
> > that 4130 should NEVER be brazed.
> >
> > You know, I am not an idiot, nor am I new to aviation maintenance
> and
> > aircraft building/rebuilding. I have stepped up on one of our
> member's
> > behalf to question what has become a commonly accepted statement
> without
> any
> > proof behind it.
> >
> > The only alleged source for a PROHIBITION against brazing 4130 for
> ANY
> > application is the guy (whose name I have now forgotten) who
> contributed
> to
> > the revised 43.13. Any others????
> >
> > If it is such a stupid question, why can't I see more sources?
> >
> > Gene
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
> > To: "pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: way more on brazing
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
> > <bobka@compuserve.com>
> > >
> > > Gene,
> > >
> > > CAM 18 dated 12/15/59 says in 18.30-4 "Brazing may be used for
> repair to
> > primary aircraft structures only if brazing was originally approved
> for
> the
> > particular application....." meaning the metals would need to be
> > compatible.....
> > >
> > > Chris bobka
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 7
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I just joined the Pietenpolt list.
I currently have a J-3 (on loan to a friend out of state), and I'm
interested in the Piet Aircamper. I've volunteered and Sun 'n Fun for a
number of years now, and I've seen Piets up close, but never sat in or flew
one.
At one of the Piet forums in April, there was some discussion about tall
and large people fitting in them. I'm 6'2'' and 200lb, so I'm not
particularly wide, but I sometimes have knee andor head clearance problems
in tight vehicles such as some of the gliders. My biggest impediments to
building a Piet are the fit, total useful load (I'd like to take my wife
once in a while) and getting in and out of the front hole, with or without
the door option.
I've also fooled with Corvairs for a bunch of years; I was the president of
Central Florida Corvairs for a couple years in the 90's. I've currently got
a '61 Lakewood and a '66 Ultravan, along with the commensurate spare
engines and transaxles. William Wynne and I have known each other
personally, and I bought his book way back when, although I'm personally
more inclined to the A-65 in an airplane than a Corvair.
Jim Ash
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: A-65 Intake manifold |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I have bought things from Andrew Palmer. He has always been fair with me.
He lists on Barnstormers.com
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duane" <duane@mo-net.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Intake manifold
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Duane <duane@mo-net.com>
>
> Hi Corky
>
> I was looking for a manifold for an 0-200, and a man
> in Kosciusko, Ms. Andrew Palmer who has manifolds
> for the 65-cont. 39.95 each 49.95 with primer.
> phone 1-662-289-4581.
>
> Also Woody has cont. parts 1-800-279-3168 real nice man
> to deal with.
>
>
> Duane Stockton
>
> Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
> >
> > Pieters
> >
> > Am in need of an A-65 Intake manifold part #4780.
> >
> > Had the complete engine, sent it to a local shop to have the cyls ground
+15
> > and even paid the guy. After 5 months, no work done, no telephone calls
> > answered, I picked up everything last Monday. Some of the stuff was in
another guys
> > shop 30 miles away for no explained reason. He also told me that it was
going
> > to cost double the initial price. It was good to get out with what I
could.
> > All was recovered except the intake manifold. I really don't care to go
back and
> > push for its recovery. A bad thing is over and I don't want to revive
it,
> > soooooooooooooooooooooo if anyone can help me find a manifold I will be
very
> > grateful.
> > I hope this request is in line with the spirit of this list.
> >
> > Corky in La
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
>
>
Message 9
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
Hi Jim
I guess I fit really close to your description, so
I'll give my 2 cents. I'm 6ft and 200 lbs ready to
fly, my piet is 75 percent finished and height and
knee room are not a problem, width is not a problem
for me, but is for wider people. I cut the leg cutouts
larger than plans.
I have a sonex which I installed a vair engine in. it
has flown 4 times. pros and cons are this;
1. corvair is much smoother and has more power.
2. corvair is less money to zero time.
3. corvair sounds as good or better than a continental
4. most continentals have to be propped.
5. can't think of any cons.
they both fly the airplane and create "fun" equally,
so start building and decide on the engine when a deal
comes that you can't pass up. that will give you a
couple of years to think about engines.
It is more fun to watch your wife climb in, than for
her to crawl in. (per watching Mike Cuys girlfriend on
his video). Oh yeah, get his video, that might give
you an idea if the piets for you.
Del
--- Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash
> <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
> I just joined the Pietenpolt list.
>
> I currently have a J-3 (on loan to a friend out of
> state), and I'm
> interested in the Piet Aircamper. I've volunteered
> and Sun 'n Fun for a
> number of years now, and I've seen Piets up close,
> but never sat in or flew
> one.
>
> At one of the Piet forums in April, there was some
> discussion about tall
> and large people fitting in them. I'm 6'2'' and
> 200lb, so I'm not
> particularly wide, but I sometimes have knee andor
> head clearance problems
> in tight vehicles such as some of the gliders. My
> biggest impediments to
> building a Piet are the fit, total useful load (I'd
> like to take my wife
> once in a while) and getting in and out of the front
> hole, with or without
> the door option.
>
> I've also fooled with Corvairs for a bunch of years;
> I was the president of
> Central Florida Corvairs for a couple years in the
> 90's. I've currently got
> a '61 Lakewood and a '66 Ultravan, along with the
> commensurate spare
> engines and transaxles. William Wynne and I have
> known each other
> personally, and I bought his book way back when,
> although I'm personally
> more inclined to the A-65 in an airplane than a
> Corvair.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
__________________________________
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
The great thing about a Piet or any homebuilt is that youcan modify it to your
liking.
I'm 6'4" 195lb and I needed to stretch mine about 3" and make it wider by about
1.5 for a good fit.
I have a 1965 110 Corvair that is going in mine and I would have probably gone
with a C90 but aero engines are spendy!
DJ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Ash
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 9:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Intro
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I just joined the Pietenpolt list.
I currently have a J-3 (on loan to a friend out of state), and I'm
interested in the Piet Aircamper. I've volunteered and Sun 'n Fun for a
number of years now, and I've seen Piets up close, but never sat in or flew
one.
At one of the Piet forums in April, there was some discussion about tall
and large people fitting in them. I'm 6'2'' and 200lb, so I'm not
particularly wide, but I sometimes have knee andor head clearance problems
in tight vehicles such as some of the gliders. My biggest impediments to
building a Piet are the fit, total useful load (I'd like to take my wife
once in a while) and getting in and out of the front hole, with or without
the door option.
I've also fooled with Corvairs for a bunch of years; I was the president of
Central Florida Corvairs for a couple years in the 90's. I've currently got
a '61 Lakewood and a '66 Ultravan, along with the commensurate spare
engines and transaxles. William Wynne and I have known each other
personally, and I bought his book way back when, although I'm personally
more inclined to the A-65 in an airplane than a Corvair.
Jim Ash
=
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Message 11
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@ev1.net>
Do not archive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: A-65 Intake manifold |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Chris,
It could be sentry. With my lack of hearing I could have made that mistake. I
talked with a Mr. Dave Stovall. They are at 2731 Ludelle St F W, Tex 76105. I
haven't talked with them since I shipped the cyls.
Corky
Message 13
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Thanks Pieters,
For your help and advice on finding a Cont manifold.
While scratching through some old parts boxes this afternoon at Lucein Field
a manifold dropped right in my hand. $25 and Mr Harvey and I are both happy.
Corky in La where I just finished my rudder pedal and brake system for Repiet
NX311CC
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: A-65 Intake manifold |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Chris,
You are correct. It is Sentry
Corky
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: shielded ignition. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie <dmatthe1@rochester.rr.com>
Steve,
I had the same problem in my Taylorcraft when I used the rubber duck
antenna. I now use an antenna in the tail and have no real noise
problems. I have a JHP 500 radio and the A65 has Case mags. You could try
it on the ground by just hooking an antenna to the radio and moving the
antenna back near the tail.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 08:57 AM 6/27/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
>
>
>I've been flying for 6 years with the unshielded mags in my A-65 powered
>piet and just love flying simple, low and slow. Unfortunately we are
>getting a tower at a nearby airport to handle the increased traffic. I
>feel like I should start using my handheld. I've tried it though and I
>get drowned out with engine noise at anything above half throttle.
>
>Anyone have a solution? I've notice some shielding kits for some mags.
>I've got Bendix SF4RN-8 mags.
>
>Been there done that? Please share!
>
>Steve e.
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Corvair thoughts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
This is a response I wrote for another forum talking about Corvairs (in
Cubs). And I didn't get into my ignition reservations.
>>>
I'm a long-time Corvair guy. I have two as of this writing, and enough
engines and transaxles in my basement to be embarrassing.
William Wynn is the guy pushing Corvair engines in airplanes. I've known
him now for 6 or 8 years, and I bought his conversion book a long time
back. William had a Corvair in a Pietenpol until he crashed in it, rumored
due to carburetor ice, a few years ago. But he's still pushing Corvairs in
airplanes; he and Grace were manning the engines workshop at the Sun 'n Fun
this year. In addition, Bernie Pietenpol put them in his planes, too.
I'm not saying I wouldn't fly one, but I would have to resolve my
reservations about it first. William's (and Bernie's) installations are
just like airplane motors; The block is bolted to the firewall and the
propeller tries to yank the crankshaft out of the engine along the thrust
line. Mounted in a car, the engine is not subject to any serious thrust
loads, only torque. The Corvair has 4 main bearings, but the thrust bearing
is #1, on the far side of the engine from the prop. Normal airplane engines
have the thrust bearing as the first one next to the prop; from that point,
the crank only has to worry about torque. William claims the engine can
take it. The crank is also subjected to propeller-induced vibrations, but
for some reason that doesn't bother me as much. The flange the propeller is
bolted to is a tapered fit, and pressed on. William has a neat little
'safety flange' to prevent the factory flange from coming off, which, last
I heard, none have, with or without William's add-on. I guess Pietenpol
just bolted up the prop and went flying. I would feel much better all
around if I could run the engine with a 1:1 PSRU (?), just for the thrust
bearing.
All this said, bolting on a Corvair is not like bolting on an A-65. If
you're going to do this, learn about the engine inside and out.
Jim Ash
At 6/27/2003 09:22 AM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
>
>Hi Jim
>I guess I fit really close to your description, so
>I'll give my 2 cents. I'm 6ft and 200 lbs ready to
>fly, my piet is 75 percent finished and height and
>knee room are not a problem, width is not a problem
>for me, but is for wider people. I cut the leg cutouts
>larger than plans.
>I have a sonex which I installed a vair engine in. it
>has flown 4 times. pros and cons are this;
>1. corvair is much smoother and has more power.
>2. corvair is less money to zero time.
>3. corvair sounds as good or better than a continental
>4. most continentals have to be propped.
>5. can't think of any cons.
>they both fly the airplane and create "fun" equally,
>so start building and decide on the engine when a deal
>comes that you can't pass up. that will give you a
>couple of years to think about engines.
>It is more fun to watch your wife climb in, than for
>her to crawl in. (per watching Mike Cuys girlfriend on
>his video). Oh yeah, get his video, that might give
>you an idea if the piets for you.
>Del
>--- Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash
> > <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> >
> > I just joined the Pietenpolt list.
> >
> > I currently have a J-3 (on loan to a friend out of
> > state), and I'm
> > interested in the Piet Aircamper. I've volunteered
> > and Sun 'n Fun for a
> > number of years now, and I've seen Piets up close,
> > but never sat in or flew
> > one.
> >
> > At one of the Piet forums in April, there was some
> > discussion about tall
> > and large people fitting in them. I'm 6'2'' and
> > 200lb, so I'm not
> > particularly wide, but I sometimes have knee andor
> > head clearance problems
> > in tight vehicles such as some of the gliders. My
> > biggest impediments to
> > building a Piet are the fit, total useful load (I'd
> > like to take my wife
> > once in a while) and getting in and out of the front
> > hole, with or without
> > the door option.
> >
> > I've also fooled with Corvairs for a bunch of years;
> > I was the president of
> > Central Florida Corvairs for a couple years in the
> > 90's. I've currently got
> > a '61 Lakewood and a '66 Ultravan, along with the
> > commensurate spare
> > engines and transaxles. William Wynne and I have
> > known each other
> > personally, and I bought his book way back when,
> > although I'm personally
> > more inclined to the A-65 in an airplane than a
> > Corvair.
> >
> > Jim Ash
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> >
>Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>=====
>Del-New Richmond, Wi
>"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
>
>__________________________________
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Matronix list okay? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Neal" <lneal@ev1.net>
Is there a Piet-list problem?
...Or more likely I've been dumped for non-contribution ;-)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair thoughts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken@mindspring.com>
Years ago I was looking into using a VW engine in a different application. I
decided to pass.
I too had concerns with the thrust going through the crankshaft to the far
end .
Not just that but the thrust forces have to make 90 degree turns thtough
each rod throw too
I talked to the Great Planes folks that sell converted VW engines for
aircraft and said that it was not an issue. The crank is forged and can take
the load.
Great Planes is now selling a thrust unit / prop extension (1:1 ) that
attaches to the flywheel end of a VW engine to take the thrust loads.
Limbach engines are loosely based on VW. Where is the thrust bearing? Subaru
direct drive applications where is the thrust bearing? Maybe someone has an
answer.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair thoughts
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
> This is a response I wrote for another forum talking about Corvairs (in
> Cubs). And I didn't get into my ignition reservations.
>
> >>>
>
> I'm a long-time Corvair guy. I have two as of this writing, and enough
> engines and transaxles in my basement to be embarrassing.
>
> William Wynn is the guy pushing Corvair engines in airplanes. I've known
> him now for 6 or 8 years, and I bought his conversion book a long time
> back. William had a Corvair in a Pietenpol until he crashed in it, rumored
> due to carburetor ice, a few years ago. But he's still pushing Corvairs in
> airplanes; he and Grace were manning the engines workshop at the Sun 'n
Fun
> this year. In addition, Bernie Pietenpol put them in his planes, too.
>
> I'm not saying I wouldn't fly one, but I would have to resolve my
> reservations about it first. William's (and Bernie's) installations are
> just like airplane motors; The block is bolted to the firewall and the
> propeller tries to yank the crankshaft out of the engine along the thrust
> line. Mounted in a car, the engine is not subject to any serious thrust
> loads, only torque. The Corvair has 4 main bearings, but the thrust
bearing
> is #1, on the far side of the engine from the prop. Normal airplane
engines
> have the thrust bearing as the first one next to the prop; from that
point,
> the crank only has to worry about torque. William claims the engine can
> take it. The crank is also subjected to propeller-induced vibrations, but
> for some reason that doesn't bother me as much. The flange the propeller
is
> bolted to is a tapered fit, and pressed on. William has a neat little
> 'safety flange' to prevent the factory flange from coming off, which, last
> I heard, none have, with or without William's add-on. I guess Pietenpol
> just bolted up the prop and went flying. I would feel much better all
> around if I could run the engine with a 1:1 PSRU (?), just for the thrust
> bearing.
>
> All this said, bolting on a Corvair is not like bolting on an A-65. If
> you're going to do this, learn about the engine inside and out.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> At 6/27/2003 09:22 AM -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam
<farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
> >
> >Hi Jim
> >I guess I fit really close to your description, so
> >I'll give my 2 cents. I'm 6ft and 200 lbs ready to
> >fly, my piet is 75 percent finished and height and
> >knee room are not a problem, width is not a problem
> >for me, but is for wider people. I cut the leg cutouts
> >larger than plans.
> >I have a sonex which I installed a vair engine in. it
> >has flown 4 times. pros and cons are this;
> >1. corvair is much smoother and has more power.
> >2. corvair is less money to zero time.
> >3. corvair sounds as good or better than a continental
> >4. most continentals have to be propped.
> >5. can't think of any cons.
> >they both fly the airplane and create "fun" equally,
> >so start building and decide on the engine when a deal
> >comes that you can't pass up. that will give you a
> >couple of years to think about engines.
> >It is more fun to watch your wife climb in, than for
> >her to crawl in. (per watching Mike Cuys girlfriend on
> >his video). Oh yeah, get his video, that might give
> >you an idea if the piets for you.
> >Del
> >--- Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash
> > > <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > I just joined the Pietenpolt list.
> > >
> > > I currently have a J-3 (on loan to a friend out of
> > > state), and I'm
> > > interested in the Piet Aircamper. I've volunteered
> > > and Sun 'n Fun for a
> > > number of years now, and I've seen Piets up close,
> > > but never sat in or flew
> > > one.
> > >
> > > At one of the Piet forums in April, there was some
> > > discussion about tall
> > > and large people fitting in them. I'm 6'2'' and
> > > 200lb, so I'm not
> > > particularly wide, but I sometimes have knee andor
> > > head clearance problems
> > > in tight vehicles such as some of the gliders. My
> > > biggest impediments to
> > > building a Piet are the fit, total useful load (I'd
> > > like to take my wife
> > > once in a while) and getting in and out of the front
> > > hole, with or without
> > > the door option.
> > >
> > > I've also fooled with Corvairs for a bunch of years;
> > > I was the president of
> > > Central Florida Corvairs for a couple years in the
> > > 90's. I've currently got
> > > a '61 Lakewood and a '66 Ultravan, along with the
> > > commensurate spare
> > > engines and transaxles. William Wynne and I have
> > > known each other
> > > personally, and I bought his book way back when,
> > > although I'm personally
> > > more inclined to the A-65 in an airplane than a
> > > Corvair.
> > >
> > > Jim Ash
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > >
> >Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >=====
> >Del-New Richmond, Wi
> >"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
> >
> >__________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair thoughts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Ken -
If the crank were just a chunk of straight steel, I probably wouldn't care
where the thrust bearing is. Pushing the thrust line through 24(?) 90
degree bends is specifically the scariest part of the thrust-line thing for me.
I broke a Corvair crank in two in one of my cars maybe 8 years ago (on the
way home from the airport after playing with the Cub, no less). It can be
done, so don't try to lie to yourself when the 'experts' tell you how
strong it is and it can never happen. Nobody is forging factory new Corvair
cranks, and you probably don't know the history of the one you have, to
know if it was abused somehow. You could magnaflux it or do some other
kinds of tests, but I honestly don't know if they could have predicted that
crank failure. Unfortunately, I didn't save the old crank as proof. It
cracked across one of the crank lobes, the one right next to the #4
bearing. If you think about it, as you go up the crank from the #1 cylinder
to the #6, each one adds successively more torque to the crank, so that
last lobe is getting pushed around by all 6 cylinders, while the first lobe
only has to turn the distributor/oil pump and the fuel pump eccentric; big
whoop.
To its credit, the engine was still running with the broken crank when I
shut it down. I had a sudden nasty vibration and I knew something was wrong
deep inside, but I made it maybe 2-3 miles before I pulled into a gas
station and called for a tow. The first three mains held the bulk of the
crank in place and aligned, and #4 held the last chunk and the torque
converter, which I found more surprising, given there weren't at least two
bearings to support it, and the #4 isn't flanged. I suspect the drive shaft
and gyroscopic effect helped with the alighment. The crack remained aligned
well enough to continue to 'push' the output section of crank around. I was
amazed when I popped the top cover. The case around the bearings wasn't
even destroyed, more remarkably. It runs in one of my cars today, although
I wouldn't have it in an airplane.
I think William experimented with driving a prop from the pulley side of
the crank instead of the flywheel side, but I don't know the mechanics of
how he set it up.
Jim Ash
At 6/27/2003 10:48 PM -0500, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken@mindspring.com>
>
>Years ago I was looking into using a VW engine in a different application. I
>decided to pass.
>I too had concerns with the thrust going through the crankshaft to the far
>end .
>Not just that but the thrust forces have to make 90 degree turns thtough
>each rod throw too
>I talked to the Great Planes folks that sell converted VW engines for
>aircraft and said that it was not an issue. The crank is forged and can take
>the load.
>Great Planes is now selling a thrust unit / prop extension (1:1 ) that
>attaches to the flywheel end of a VW engine to take the thrust loads.
>Limbach engines are loosely based on VW. Where is the thrust bearing? Subaru
>direct drive applications where is the thrust bearing? Maybe someone has an
>answer.
>
>Ken
...
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair thoughts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken@mindspring.com>
Jim
I don't want to take that chance
ken
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair thoughts
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
> Ken -
>
> If the crank were just a chunk of straight steel, I probably wouldn't care
> where the thrust bearing is. Pushing the thrust line through 24(?) 90
> degree bends is specifically the scariest part of the thrust-line thing
for me.
>
> I broke a Corvair crank in two in one of my cars maybe 8 years ago (on the
> way home from the airport after playing with the Cub, no less). It can be
> done, so don't try to lie to yourself when the 'experts' tell you how
> strong it is and it can never happen. Nobody is forging factory new
Corvair
> cranks, and you probably don't know the history of the one you have, to
> know if it was abused somehow. You could magnaflux it or do some other
> kinds of tests, but I honestly don't know if they could have predicted
that
> crank failure. Unfortunately, I didn't save the old crank as proof. It
> cracked across one of the crank lobes, the one right next to the #4
> bearing. If you think about it, as you go up the crank from the #1
cylinder
> to the #6, each one adds successively more torque to the crank, so that
> last lobe is getting pushed around by all 6 cylinders, while the first
lobe
> only has to turn the distributor/oil pump and the fuel pump eccentric; big
> whoop.
>
> To its credit, the engine was still running with the broken crank when I
> shut it down. I had a sudden nasty vibration and I knew something was
wrong
> deep inside, but I made it maybe 2-3 miles before I pulled into a gas
> station and called for a tow. The first three mains held the bulk of the
> crank in place and aligned, and #4 held the last chunk and the torque
> converter, which I found more surprising, given there weren't at least two
> bearings to support it, and the #4 isn't flanged. I suspect the drive
shaft
> and gyroscopic effect helped with the alighment. The crack remained
aligned
> well enough to continue to 'push' the output section of crank around. I
was
> amazed when I popped the top cover. The case around the bearings wasn't
> even destroyed, more remarkably. It runs in one of my cars today, although
> I wouldn't have it in an airplane.
>
> I think William experimented with driving a prop from the pulley side of
> the crank instead of the flywheel side, but I don't know the mechanics of
> how he set it up.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> At 6/27/2003 10:48 PM -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Anderson"
<piet4ken@mindspring.com>
> >
> >Years ago I was looking into using a VW engine in a different
application. I
> >decided to pass.
> >I too had concerns with the thrust going through the crankshaft to the
far
> >end .
> >Not just that but the thrust forces have to make 90 degree turns thtough
> >each rod throw too
> >I talked to the Great Planes folks that sell converted VW engines for
> >aircraft and said that it was not an issue. The crank is forged and can
take
> >the load.
> >Great Planes is now selling a thrust unit / prop extension (1:1 ) that
> >attaches to the flywheel end of a VW engine to take the thrust loads.
> >Limbach engines are loosely based on VW. Where is the thrust bearing?
Subaru
> >direct drive applications where is the thrust bearing? Maybe someone has
an
> >answer.
> >
> >Ken
> ...
>
>
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