Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - engine vibration gone----prop tracking was the problem ! (Michael D Cuy)
2. 05:56 AM - Re: Carb icing (rhartwig11@juno.com)
3. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: Carb icing (Ken)
4. 08:24 AM - Re: Skytek struts (DJ Vegh)
5. 09:29 AM - Re: Skytek struts (Doyle K. Combs)
6. 09:50 AM - New guy looking for advice (Jack Textor)
7. 09:53 AM - Re: Skytek struts (DJ Vegh)
8. 01:21 PM - Let's get started (Jim Ash)
9. 02:02 PM - Re: Let's get started (Kent Hallsten)
10. 02:05 PM - Re: Let's get started (Hubbard, Eugene)
11. 03:17 PM - Re: Let's get started (Jack Phillips)
12. 04:19 PM - Re: Let's get started (Jim Ash)
13. 04:51 PM - Re: Let's get started (Hubbard, Eugene)
14. 05:17 PM - Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details (DJ Vegh)
15. 05:47 PM - Stress analysis (hjarrett)
16. 05:57 PM - Re: Let's get started (Kip & Beth Gardner)
17. 06:10 PM - Re: Let's get started (Jim Ash)
18. 06:25 PM - Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details (Kip & Beth Gardner)
19. 06:26 PM - Re: Stress analysis (Jack Phillips)
20. 06:53 PM - Re: Let's get started, group builds? (hjarrett)
21. 06:58 PM - Re: Va. Beach Piet for sale, was Let's get started - GN-1 details (hjarrett)
22. 07:02 PM - Re: Let's get started (DJ Vegh)
23. 09:37 PM - Re: Let's get started (Christian Bobka)
Message 1
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| Subject: | engine vibration gone----prop tracking was the problem |
!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
group-- After balancing my prop on the workbench with some varnish here and
there, (it wasn't really out of balance at all.) I reinstalled the prop
according to the manufacturer's specs and torqued the 3/8" prop bolts to
200" lbs. +/- 25" lbs. To make it easier I divided 200 by 12" and came up
with 16.6 foot-lbs. and went to work. The # 2 prop blade was about 3/16"
behind the track of the # 1 prop blade. (Tony B. and other books/web sites
show a simple way to check your prop tracking.) It took quite a few
tightening and loosening of my prop bolts to slip folded pieces of brown
paper between the front face of the prop hub and the aft face of the prop
to get the blades to track within a 1/16" of each other but it was well
worth it. The vibration I was experiencing in flight is 95% gone and I
can understand the other 5% as the engine is doing work.
PS---thanks for the good CG numbers Chuck Gantzer---nice to have another 65
Cont. Piet guy that is 200 lbs. as well flying on fumes and still in the CG
range:)
Mike C.
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
Will,
I would also like to hear more about icing problems that list members
have experienced. I suspect that icing problems are related more to the
carb and the induction system than to the engine itself. I had a Cessna
150 (O-200 Cont.) for several years. During humid weather I had to keep
a close watch on RPM while cruising at 75%. RPM's would slowly drop
requiring application of carb heat to bring things back to normal. As I
remember this would happen in weather as warm as in the 70's.
If you have further concerns about icing, you might consider the
Aero-Carb by Monnet. This type of carb is more resistant to icing. I am
considering using one on my Corvair powered Piet along with a good carb
heat box.
Dick Hartwig
Time: 10:05:39 AM PST US
From: William Young <wry22@drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair motors
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Young <wry22@drexel.edu>
I have just started building my aircamper and am trying to decide what
motor to use. I like several aspects of the corvair, but have concerns
about carb ice problems I have heard of people having with them. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this, am I making a mountain out of a mole
hill?
Thanks, Will Young
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken" <av8or@infionline.net>
I had a total engine failure (well not quite total but enough I couldn't
maintain altitude) in a C-150. This was flight with a pre-solo student.
Engine RPMs dropped. Carb heat applied RPMs came back. Carb heat removed
and after about a min RPMs went back down. I then added Carb heat and
figuring that I was ok continued the training flight which turned out to be
a big mistake because we were doing ground ref maneuvers. After a short
time the RPMs started dropping again. Found a nice little wet RC field
(Didn't know it was until the next day) and nose the plane over.
Question what do you do for carb ice if the heat is already on.
Ken
av8or@infionline.net
kring@mountainviewdogs.com
kring@irisweb.net
www.irisweb.net
www.mountainviewdogs.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
rhartwig11@juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carb icing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
Will,
I would also like to hear more about icing problems that list members
have experienced. I suspect that icing problems are related more to the
carb and the induction system than to the engine itself. I had a Cessna
150 (O-200 Cont.) for several years. During humid weather I had to keep
a close watch on RPM while cruising at 75%. RPM's would slowly drop
requiring application of carb heat to bring things back to normal. As I
remember this would happen in weather as warm as in the 70's.
If you have further concerns about icing, you might consider the
Aero-Carb by Monnet. This type of carb is more resistant to icing. I am
considering using one on my Corvair powered Piet along with a good carb
heat box.
Dick Hartwig
Time: 10:05:39 AM PST US
From: William Young <wry22@drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair motors
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Young <wry22@drexel.edu>
I have just started building my aircamper and am trying to decide what
motor to use. I like several aspects of the corvair, but have concerns
about carb ice problems I have heard of people having with them. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this, am I making a mountain out of a mole
hill?
Thanks, Will Young
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
and the larger for ift struts.
I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for
lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he larger
struts.
For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long into
the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
forks.
They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all the
strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
welding is required.
They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rod wooller"
<rodwooller@hotmail.com>
>
> A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
> struts from Skytek.
>
> Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the size
> to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the plans
?
>
> Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
>
> Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> questions).
>
> Rod Wooller
> Chidlow
> Australia
>
> Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs@Ltex.net>
DJ ...where did you purchase the skytech strut material? Thanks
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
> and the larger for ift struts.
>
> I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for
> lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he
larger
> struts.
>
> For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long
into
> the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
>
> For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
> into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
> forks.
>
> They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all
the
> strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
> welding is required.
>
> They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rod wooller"
> <rodwooller@hotmail.com>
> >
> > A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
> > struts from Skytek.
> >
> > Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the
size
> > to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the
plans
> ?
> >
> > Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
> >
> > Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> > questions).
> >
> > Rod Wooller
> > Chidlow
> > Australia
> >
> > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | New guy looking for advice |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" <jack@personnelincorporated.com>
Hi all,
A brief background may be helpful. A couple years ago I considered building
a Piet. Instead I started an RV 8, yes a metal plane! It is getting pretty
expensive with 2 kids in college (one in Hawaii, of all places). I love the
building process but with the 8 its completion seems a long way off. I have
always loved the Piet. I have BP's plans and lots of articles on it. On my
way to OSH this year I was thinking of stopping at Brodhead, that Saturday
or Sunday (26th or 27th). Do I have the date's right? Would there be a
place to park my pop-up camper? And I hate to even ask, but if the
situation was right, could a guy beg a short ride to see if I would even fit
in one?
Thanks in advance!
Jack
Des Moines, IA
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Skytek struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
http://www.sky-tek.com/
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Doyle K. Combs
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs@Ltex.net>
DJ ...where did you purchase the skytech strut material? Thanks
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes
> and the larger for ift struts.
>
> I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for
> lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he
larger
> struts.
>
> For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long
into
> the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm
>
> For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long
> into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut
> forks.
>
> They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all
the
> strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no
> welding is required.
>
> They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well...
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rod wooller"
> <rodwooller@hotmail.com>
> >
> > A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift
> > struts from Skytek.
> >
> > Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the
size
> > to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the
plans
> ?
> >
> > Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ?
> >
> > Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more
> > questions).
> >
> > Rod Wooller
> > Chidlow
> > Australia
> >
> > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
> >
> >
>
>
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
the last few weeks.
So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
Jim Ash
Message 9
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
Please buy from Don Pietenpol, it was his Grandfather who did all the hard work.
I consider the other plan suppliers to be .... well , I won't say it.
Don also has a construction manual, but it may not be much in the way of help.
However it is interesting to have. (I have it.) You will get plenty more information
on building from the archives here at Matronics.
The newsletter is nice to get, but I don't have the web address for you.
Kent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:50 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
>
> OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a
> lot again in
> the last few weeks.
>
> So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to
> begin with.
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Jim,
You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
I'm the first.
1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane,
designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a
bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper
than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and
Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in
a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There
is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful,
but there.
Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on
them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you
have to figure out yourself.
2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free,
and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and
stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever,
but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did
the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a
woodworking perspective.
3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you
seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts.
4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time
figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you
get the basic framing done.
5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably
someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for
inspiration.
Have fun--it's a great project!
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan@earthlink.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
the last few weeks.
So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
Jim Ash
Message 11
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Jim,
I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will
require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really
enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the
various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems.
I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job on
it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and they
are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go to
Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every little
detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing and
the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can find
lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are
made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two
Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself.
By all means buy the plans and study them. Check out the archives of this
discussion group (nearly everything that can raise a question has been
debated back and forth here - sometimes with a definitive answer!). Ask
questions. Think about it. Ask more questions. Try to plan how you are
going to inspect your plane after it is built. Provide access to everything
that will need inspecting. Such details aren't necessarily in the plans.
Above all, enjoy the process.
Good lucjk,
Jack Phillips
In rainy North Carolina, where Bill's remains are dumping on us today.
NX899JP - tail covered, wings covered, centersection and fuselage are next.
Hope to fly it this fall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hubbard,
Eugene
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Jim,
You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
I'm the first.
1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane,
designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a
bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper
than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and
Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in
a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There
is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful,
but there.
Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on
them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you
have to figure out yourself.
2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free,
and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and
stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever,
but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did
the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a
woodworking perspective.
3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you
seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts.
4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time
figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you
get the basic framing done.
5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably
someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for
inspiration.
Have fun--it's a great project!
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan@earthlink.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
the last few weeks.
So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
Jim Ash
Message 12
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I know the Pietenpol AirCamper and the GN-1 are distinctly separate
aircraft, but I don't know the details why. Anybody?
Jim Ash
At 7/2/2003 02:04 PM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
>
>Jim,
>
>You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
>I'm the first.
>
>1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
>two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
>look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
...
Message 13
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
John Grega designed the GN-1 to use Piper Cub components because they were
cheap at the time. They aren't anymore. You'll have to ask DJ or someone
who's building one for the advantages. For me it was essentially an
arbitrary decision, and since everyone calls them Pietenpols, it took me a
while to figure out why some of the planes were so different.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan@earthlink.net]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I know the Pietenpol AirCamper and the GN-1 are distinctly separate
aircraft, but I don't know the details why. Anybody?
Jim Ash
At 7/2/2003 02:04 PM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene"
<ehubbard@titan.com>
>
>Jim,
>
>You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
>I'm the first.
>
>1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
>two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They
only
>look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
...
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
here it is in a nutshell....
the GN-1 uses off the shelf Cub, Champ, T-Craft, Baby Ace, etc parts... the
landing gear is Cub. The fuel tank and cowl are Cub, control stick is
Champ, aux tanks are T-Craft, aileron horns are Baby Ace, and the list goes
on.
Back in the day when the late Grega designed the bird those parts were
plentiful and cheap. not the case nowdays.
The other main diference is in the wings and cabane assembly. The wings use
larger spars and space them closer together at 31" a la Piper Cub. You
could in fact use a shortened Piper Cub wing if you want because the cabanes
are at the proper dimension.
The spars are also taller and 1" thick. essentially the GN-1 wing is
stronger than the Piet wing but at a penalty of being heavier (not much
though)
The fuse is narrower so as to be able to use 4x8 sheet of ply and get the
most yeild from it..... but alot of GN-1 builders make it as wide or wider
than a Piet (myself included). The GN-1 has ply sheeting that goes from
firewall to tailpost. This is massive overkill. I chose to do the Piet
method of ending the sheat aft of the rear seat and then I used oversize
gussets past that.
GN-1's are known to be heavier than Piets by anywhere from 75-150lb. I
knew this in advance and am doing my best to make a GN-1/ Piet hybrid to
keep my bird light. As of now my entire fuse with center cabanes, combing,
control stick, wheels brakes and tail feathers weighs in at about 200lb.
About 20lb heavier than I was hoping for but you can imagine how heavy it
would be if I didn;t take weight precautions.
I REALLY like the GN-1 design. It's a bit beefier than a Piet but the extra
strength is appealing to me. It'll take about +5 -2 G's (according to my
unqualified engineering calculations) What I like most is the fact that I
could use the Cub gear, Cub drag/anti drag wires, and other off the shelf
stuff. The rest of the metal parts I had laser cut and bent.
Do your homework and I say buy the GN-1 plans AND the Piet plans no matter
what version you build. Study and read the plans over and over again...
it;s amazing how you find new stuff every time you look at them. Although
I'm not sure how hard it will be to buy GN-1 plans now that Grega has passed
last November. If you do not have any luck getting in touch with his family
let me know. I could "bootleg" a set for you but I really would like you to
try to contact his family first.... somehow.
if you get a chance check my aircamper site.... it shows complete log
entries from day one of construction with tons of photos. the address is
below in my signature.
I'm about 85% complete with my fuse now and will begin wing construction
this winter. Hoping to have this sucker in the air October 2005. :-)
DJ Vegh
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
> I know the Pietenpol AirCamper and the GN-1 are distinctly separate
> aircraft, but I don't know the details why. Anybody?
>
> Jim Ash
>
> At 7/2/2003 02:04 PM -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene"
<ehubbard@titan.com>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks
like
> >I'm the first.
> >
> >1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are
actually
> >two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They
only
> >look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
> ...
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | ol-List:Stress analysis |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
I'm new to the list and have looked at the archive and couldn't find
anything. Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol? I understand one was done before the
first one was built in England but have come up dry on finding someone with
a copy. I'm an engineer and really don't want to repeat something that is
already done. The drawings look like a Pietenpol could be used as a
huricane tracker (put a sandwich bag over the mag?) but I would really like
to see where the weakest links are (and the strongest).
Hank Jarrett
Two Taylorcrafts, but want something open cockpit
Message 16
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
At 6:13 PM -0400 07/02/03, Jack Phillips wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
>Jim,
>
>I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will
>require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really
>enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the
>various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems.
>I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job on
>it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and they
>are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go to
>Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every little
>detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing and
>the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can find
>lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are
>made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two
>Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself.
Jim,
About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this
can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so
be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build
one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real
deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the
winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) &
it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile
long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just
staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What
I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it
happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot
of the guys on this list will tell you.
Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale
booster as far as I'm concerned.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner
(did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?)
North Canton, OH
Message 17
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I meant to mention:
I'm in northern New Hampshire, formally Whitefield, which is about 15 nm
due west of Mount Washington. The local economy is pretty sad, so you don't
see a lot of discretionary money going toward airplanes. We just moved here
a year and a half ago, and I've spent a lot of time doing home fixup stuff
and working out of town, so I'm just finding my way around.
About the closest EAA Chapter I found is #740. Their meetings are maybe an
hour and a half's drive from here, so it isn't right next door. I've been a
national member for 15(?) years, and have joined local chapters where we
lived here and there. The New Hampshire move is our dream shot, so I expect
we'll be here for a while.
Somewhere I've got Aircraft Spruce's and Wicks' catalogs, but they're
probably not current. I've been to 3 of the Sportair workshops, but not the
fabric one yet.
I've built things from plans before, so I know what you mean as far as not
being a kit, but I appreciate the heads up anyway. I fully expect to spend
a month of evenings scrutinizing the plans and adding things up to my
satisfaction before I make a move. I tend to be pretty picky (more than one
person has told me my preflights take longer than anybody they've ever
known), but that's what keeps me alive and kickin'. As long as I can
formulate a plan of action in my head, I'll be OK. Getting started is the
worst for me.
DJ - I went through your web site a week ago, including your log details
and the intake manifold milling. Are you planning on using the jugs in the
photo? Lon Wall (Corvair Underground) used to sell what he called a
Superkit for engine rebuilding. If I opt for the Corvair engine, I'll
probably get one of his kits.
Jim Ash
At 7/2/2003 02:04 PM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
>
>Jim,
>
>You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like
>I'm the first.
>
>1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually
>two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only
>look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the
>Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane,
>designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a
>bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper
>than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and
>Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in
>a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There
>is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful,
>but there.
>
>Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on
>them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you
>have to figure out yourself.
>
>2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free,
>and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and
>stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever,
>but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did
>the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a
>woodworking perspective.
>
>3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you
>seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts.
>
>4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time
>figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you
>get the basic framing done.
>
>5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably
>someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for
>inspiration.
>
>Have fun--it's a great project!
>
>Gene Hubbard
>San Diego
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan@earthlink.net]
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
>
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
>
>OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in
>the last few weeks.
>
>So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I
>was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different
>suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is
>there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech
>briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't
>expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel,
>aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal,
>sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there.
>
>I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction
>sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there.
>
>Jim Ash
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
At 8:14 PM -0400 07/02/03, DJ Vegh wrote:
>Do your homework and I say buy the GN-1 plans AND the Piet plans no matter
>what version you build. Study and read the plans over and over again...
>it;s amazing how you find new stuff every time you look at them. Although
>I'm not sure how hard it will be to buy GN-1 plans now that Grega has passed
>last November. If you do not have any luck getting in touch with his family
>let me know. I could "bootleg" a set for you but I really would like you to
>try to contact his family first.... somehow.
Jim,
Buy the original Pietenpol plans from Don P. - there are others out there
selling unauthorized versions, some guy in Iowa comes to mind, but I
personally consider that theft.
The Grega plans continue to be advertised in the back of Experimenter - it
looks like they are being sold by John's son.
Here's the address:
R.J. Grega
P.O. Box 391086
Solon, OH 44139
Price is $50
BTW, there's been a partially complete GN-1 for sale in Va. Beach, VA for
some time now - a local guy was interested & the seller sent him photos. It
looked pretty decent & fairly well along (fuse, ribs, tail feathers, some
fittings & an old junk Franklin). Price was ~$700. It was listed in the
'for sale' section of Grant Maclaren's old BPA website. Don't remember the
guy's name, but the phone # was area code 757. It is not identified in the
ad as a GN-1, but that's clearly what it is.
The seller is not the builder - he said he bought it off a widow & he knows
nothing about it's history.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner (I DID mention the T-craft fly-in this weekend, didn't I?) ;)
North Canton, OH
Message 19
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| Subject: | tenpol-List:Stress analysis |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Hank, if you're an engineer I'd say do it yourself. I did it for mine, but
it wouldn't do anyone else any good because of the changes I've made
(centersection 6" wider than plans, fuselage 1" wider than plans, etc.)
What I found for my airplane with my changes was it was good for about 5 g's
ultimate, so with a safety factor, it's a good 3.2 g normal category
aircraft, but no more. I would not recommend any but the mildest aerobatics
(the occasional wingover) in it.
Jack Phillips, PE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hjarrett
Subject: Pietenpol-List:Stress analysis
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
I'm new to the list and have looked at the archive and couldn't find
anything. Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done
on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol? I understand one was done before the
first one was built in England but have come up dry on finding someone with
a copy. I'm an engineer and really don't want to repeat something that is
already done. The drawings look like a Pietenpol could be used as a
huricane tracker (put a sandwich bag over the mag?) but I would really like
to see where the weakest links are (and the strongest).
Hank Jarrett
Two Taylorcrafts, but want something open cockpit
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Let's get started, group builds? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
Try and find someone else in your area that is interested in building a
Pietenpol. It's amazing how much easier it is to stay enthused if there is
someone to talk, think and work with. You keep each other inspired and all
the tooling gets two (at least) uses. You will also make a LOT less
mistakes and end up with better workmanship.
Hank J (Taylorcraft flyer that wishes he was going to Ohio this weekend)
> Jim,
>
> About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this
> can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so
> be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build
> one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real
> deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the
> winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) &
> it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile
> long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just
> staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What
> I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it
> happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot
> of the guys on this list will tell you.
>
> Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale
> booster as far as I'm concerned.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?)
>
> North Canton, OH
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Va. Beach Piet for sale, was Let's get started - GN-1 |
details
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
I live in Va Beach and would be willing to look at the plane if anyone is
interested in it. If it turns out to be a friend of mine I have an
associate that does appraisals that could give an unbiased opinion if
needed. If I'm biased I'll say so and my comments are worth what you pay
(nothing, the pay that is).
Hank J
>
> BTW, there's been a partially complete GN-1 for sale in Va. Beach, VA for
> some time now - a local guy was interested & the seller sent him photos.
It
> looked pretty decent & fairly well along (fuse, ribs, tail feathers, some
> fittings & an old junk Franklin). Price was ~$700. It was listed in the
> 'for sale' section of Grant Maclaren's old BPA website. Don't remember the
> guy's name, but the phone # was area code 757. It is not identified in the
> ad as a GN-1, but that's clearly what it is.
>
> The seller is not the builder - he said he bought it off a widow & he
knows
> nothing about it's history.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kip Gardner (I DID mention the T-craft fly-in this weekend, didn't I?) ;)
>
>
> North Canton, OH
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
snip
> DJ - I went through your web site a week ago, including your log details
> and the intake manifold milling. Are you planning on using the jugs in the
> photo? Lon Wall (Corvair Underground) used to sell what he called a
> Superkit for engine rebuilding. If I opt for the Corvair engine, I'll
> probably get one of his kits.
>
> Jim Ash
I will be using those jugs. I have cleaned them up and they are waiting to
get milled .020 over. Make sure if you go with Corvair power that you get
William Wynnes conversion manual at flycorvair.com. It outlines everything
you need to do for a good Aero'Vair.
DJ
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
It was Don P.'s dad that did all the work. andrew p.'s grandfather.
cb
----- Original Message -----
From: Kent Hallsten <KHallsten@Governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten"
<KHallsten@Governair.com>
>
> Please buy from Don Pietenpol, it was his Grandfather who did all the hard
work. I consider the other plan suppliers to be .... well , I won't say
it.
>
> Don also has a construction manual, but it may not be much in the way of
help. However it is interesting to have. (I have it.) You will get plenty
more information on building from the archives here at Matronics.
>
> The newsletter is nice to get, but I don't have the web address for you.
>
> Kent
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan@earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:50 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started
> >
> >
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> >
> >
> > OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a
> > lot again in
> > the last few weeks.
> >
> > So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to
> > begin with.
> >
>
>
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