---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/03/03: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Re: Let's get started (clif) 2. 12:54 AM - Re: Let's get started - GN-1 details (Jim Ash) 3. 01:01 AM - Re: Let's get started, group builds? (Jim Ash) 4. 01:20 AM - Re: Let's get started (Jim Ash) 5. 01:32 AM - Re: Let's get started (Jim Ash) 6. 04:47 AM - Re: New guy looking for advice (Gadd, Skip) 7. 05:14 AM - Re: Let's get started (John_Duprey@vmed.org) 8. 06:26 AM - Re: Let's get started (Mike) 9. 06:30 AM - large lift struts (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 10. 07:12 AM - Re: large lift struts (John_Duprey@vmed.org) 11. 07:13 AM - Re: large lift struts (DJ Vegh) 12. 07:36 AM - Re: Let's get started (Gary Gower) 13. 09:58 AM - brass dataplates (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 11:30 AM - Re: brass dataplates (Christian Bobka) 15. 11:46 AM - Re: brass dataplates (DJ Vegh) 16. 12:20 PM - a Piet near you ?? (Michael D Cuy) 17. 01:47 PM - let's get started; odds & ends (Oscar Zuniga) 18. 02:14 PM - Re: Let's get started (Cy Galley) 19. 03:14 PM - Re: let's get started; odds & ends (hjarrett) 20. 03:24 PM - Re: Let's get started (Kip & Beth Gardner) 21. 06:10 PM - EAA chapters (John Ford) 22. 06:40 PM - Re: EAA chapters (John Myers) 23. 07:28 PM - Re: Let's get started (Jim Ash) 24. 09:41 PM - Re: Skytek struts (rod wooller) 25. 11:22 PM - Re: Let's get started (clif) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:56 AM PST US From: clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif I second that, and add this; This is a builders project. You must love your tools and enjoy working with them. Treat it as an interesting journey, or a quest, if you like, every step fascinating in itself. And when it's done your accomplishment will be such as only a few can know. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner > > At 6:13 PM -0400 07/02/03, Jack Phillips wrote: > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" > > > >Jim, > > > >I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will > >require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really > >enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the > >various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems. > >I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job on > >it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and they > >are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go to > >Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every little > >detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing and > >the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can find > >lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are > >made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two > >Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself. > > > Jim, > > About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this > can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so > be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build > one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real > deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the > winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) & > it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile > long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just > staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What > I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it > happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot > of the guys on this list will tell you. > > Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale > booster as far as I'm concerned. > > Cheers, > > Kip Gardner > > (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?) > > North Canton, OH > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:09 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started - GN-1 details --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash I'm more inclined to the Piet than the GN-1. I'm not sure I could work with somebody else's partially-built airplane. I'd end up inspecting and re-doing a bunch, I suspect. I suspected the Piet plans were lifted from the originals; it would be my preference to deal with Don for that reason. ... and you did mention the T-Craft fly-in. Did I mention the out-of-state 50th wedding anniversary party on Saturday for 3 hours that we'll end up driving Friday and Sunday to make? Jim Ash At 7/2/2003 09:24 PM -0400, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner > > >At 8:14 PM -0400 07/02/03, DJ Vegh wrote: > > >Do your homework and I say buy the GN-1 plans AND the Piet plans no matter > >what version you build. Study and read the plans over and over again... > >it;s amazing how you find new stuff every time you look at them. Although > >I'm not sure how hard it will be to buy GN-1 plans now that Grega has passed > >last November. If you do not have any luck getting in touch with his family > >let me know. I could "bootleg" a set for you but I really would like you to > >try to contact his family first.... somehow. > >Jim, > >Buy the original Pietenpol plans from Don P. - there are others out there >selling unauthorized versions, some guy in Iowa comes to mind, but I >personally consider that theft. > >The Grega plans continue to be advertised in the back of Experimenter - it >looks like they are being sold by John's son. > >Here's the address: > >R.J. Grega >P.O. Box 391086 >Solon, OH 44139 > >Price is $50 > >BTW, there's been a partially complete GN-1 for sale in Va. Beach, VA for >some time now - a local guy was interested & the seller sent him photos. It >looked pretty decent & fairly well along (fuse, ribs, tail feathers, some >fittings & an old junk Franklin). Price was ~$700. It was listed in the >'for sale' section of Grant Maclaren's old BPA website. Don't remember the >guy's name, but the phone # was area code 757. It is not identified in the >ad as a GN-1, but that's clearly what it is. > >The seller is not the builder - he said he bought it off a widow & he knows >nothing about it's history. > >Cheers, > >Kip Gardner (I DID mention the T-craft fly-in this weekend, didn't I?) ;) > > >North Canton, OH > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:10 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started, group builds? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash Good suggestion. I've done it before with other things, but finding somebody that flies around here is a tall order, left alone somebody from the low and slow crowd. There's a similar article in the lastest Sport Aviation about a group that did it with a bunch of Neuport 11's. Besides the motivational stuff, they had volume buying power, too. Jim At 7/2/2003 09:52 PM -0400, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" > > >Try and find someone else in your area that is interested in building a >Pietenpol. It's amazing how much easier it is to stay enthused if there is >someone to talk, think and work with. You keep each other inspired and all >the tooling gets two (at least) uses. You will also make a LOT less >mistakes and end up with better workmanship. >Hank J (Taylorcraft flyer that wishes he was going to Ohio this weekend) > > > Jim, > > > > About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this > > can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so > > be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build > > one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real > > deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the > > winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) & > > it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile > > long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just > > staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What > > I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it > > happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot > > of the guys on this list will tell you. > > > > Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale > > booster as far as I'm concerned. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Kip Gardner > > > > (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?) > > > > North Canton, OH > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:47 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash DJ - In the course of fooling with Corvairs, I've seen a bunch of really amazing stuff done with/to these engines in the name of rebuilding, by people who should have stuck with small block Chevys. By now, anytime you look at a Corvair, you need to assume the engine has been rebuilt, possibly by someone who was clueless. The reason I asked about the jugs was initially the surface rust, but it's a common thing for a 'rebuilder' to forget the bottom baffles (I've done it, but I'll pull the head off again and to put them back on - I've never run one without them). Without them, the bottom of the jugs can get overheated and crystallized. You'll see some discoloration inside on the bottom which will clue you in. Don't bother with them if they've got it. I bought William's book so long ago I don't even remember it any more, but it's right here on the shelf. I run into him from time to time; I saw him at Sun 'n Fun this year. I saw his Piet at Sun 'n Fun in '99 (I think), with the cool valve covers. Jim Ash ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:39 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's up, my air compressor, welder, drill press, wood lathe, metal lathe, joiner, a host of smaller power and hand tools, my steel pile, my foundry sands and supplies, 5 Corvair engines, and a handful of Corvair transaxles will all be going out there. I expect I'll be putting together a set of Chapter 1000 tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years. Of course, I hate tools....... Jim Ash At 7/3/2003 12:40 AM -0700, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif > >I second that, and add this; > >This is a builders project. You must love >your tools and enjoy working with them. >Treat it as an interesting journey, or a >quest, if you like, every step fascinating >in itself. And when it's done your >accomplishment will be such as only a >few can know. > >Clif > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kip & Beth Gardner" >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner > > > > > At 6:13 PM -0400 07/02/03, Jack Phillips wrote: > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" > > > > > > >Jim, > > > > > >I agree completely with Gene. This is not a kitplane, and as such will > > >require considerable thought to complete it. One of the things I really > > >enjoy about Pietenpols is to look at toher people's projects and see the > > >various different ways they have come up with to solve the same problems. > > >I've seen Gene's project in San Diego and he is doing an outstanding job >on > > >it. I've seen Frank Pavliga's and Mike Cuy's completed airplanes and >they > > >are beautiful, and I have learned something form all of them. If you go >to > > >Brodhead, take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every >little > > >detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing >and > > >the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can >find > > >lots of variation here. Little details of how landing gear fittings are > > >made, or windshields or any of a number of other components. No two > > >Pietenpols are alike - even those built by B H Pietenpol himself. > > > > > > Jim, > > > > About the only thing I can add at this point is to keep in mind that this > > can turn out to be a very long term on-again/off-again kind of project, so > > be prepared. It's been nearly 5 years since I decided I was going to build > > one of these things & I'm betting on at least 5 more to go - but no real > > deadline. I'm kind of in a slump on mine right now - have been most of the > > winter/spring - life happens (especially with an active 3-1/2 year old) & > > it's easy to not find time for the plane when the honeydo list is a mile > > long. Mostly for the past 6 months I've been going downstairs and just > > staring at it & trying to visualize how to get certain things done. What > > I'm saying is don't get discouraged, enjoy the process at whatever pace it > > happens, persevere, and eventually you will have a finished plane as a lot > > of the guys on this list will tell you. > > > > Also, being involved with an active EAA chapter is a tremendous morale > > booster as far as I'm concerned. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Kip Gardner > > > > (did I mention ythe Taylorcraft flyin this weekend?) > > > > North Canton, OH > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:58 AM PST US From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New guy looking for advice --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" Jack, Yes, the dates are correct. No problem with the camper, they ask for a one time donation, which covers camping as long as you care to stay. There will be more Piets there on Saturday as people start leaving early Sunday. Talk to the Piet pilots who are there, some hop rides and some don't. Skip --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" --> >On my way to OSH this year I was thinking of stopping at Brodhead, that Saturday or Sunday >(26th or 27th). Do I have the date's right? Would there be a place to park my pop-up camper? >And I hate to even ask, but if the situation was right, could a guy beg a short ride to see if >I would even fit in one? Thanks in advance! Jack Des Moines, IA ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:39 AM PST US From: John_Duprey@vmed.org Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started 07/03/2003 08:14:32 AM --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John_Duprey@vmed.org Hi Jim: There are a few Builders that I know of in New England. Richard DeCosta in Maine, Bob Thiessel (SP?) and Myself down here in South Eastern Mass. Yes there are several suppliers of the plans for the Pietenpol , I reccomend you buy from the Pietenpol family, they are the rightfull owners and other plans are just photocopies of plans. Best Wishes John Duprey ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:36 AM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike So, Jim, are there any places for rent near you? Mike Jim Ash wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash > > I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's up, > my air compressor, welder, drill press, wood lathe, metal lathe, joiner, a > host of smaller power and hand tools, my steel pile, my foundry sands and > supplies, 5 Corvair engines, and a handful of Corvair transaxles will all > be going out there. I expect I'll be putting together a set of Chapter 1000 > tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used > Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years. > > Of course, I hate tools....... > > Jim Ash ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:30 AM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) D.J., Would 1" sq. aluminum bar be strong enough to take a 3/8 drilled and taped hole? It would be so much lighter than steel bar. Has any one checked with Chad Willie to see if his plans are just rip-off of BHP's plans, or did he redraw them with all of the errors, mistakes, grey areas, black areas, vague areas, confusing areas, etc cleaned up? If so his plans ( or anyone who cleaned up and redrew the plans ) would be the way to go. Leon S. with a 55 gal. barrel of scrap caused by my misinterpreting the grey areas of the plans. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:41 AM PST US From: John_Duprey@vmed.org Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts 07/03/2003 10:12:36 AM --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John_Duprey@vmed.org Leon: Many years ago when I first became interested in the Pietenpol I bought a set of Chad Willies plans, The were photocopied from the old F&G Manual, Very hard to read. A complete set of plans as advertised and Chad is not violating any copyrights. He may be offering cleaned up plans now, I don't know. I can only tell you that the plans I bought from the Pietenpol's are far superior to the ones I bought first. Best Wishes John lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)@matronics.com on 07/03/2003 09:30:27 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com cc: Subject: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) D.J., Would 1" sq. aluminum bar be strong enough to take a 3/8 drilled and taped hole? It would be so much lighter than steel bar. Has any one checked with Chad Willie to see if his plans are just rip-off of BHP's plans, or did he redraw them with all of the errors, mistakes, grey areas, black areas, vague areas, confusing areas, etc cleaned up? If so his plans ( or anyone who cleaned up and redrew the plans ) would be the way to go. Leon S. with a 55 gal. barrel of scrap caused by my misinterpreting the grey areas of the plans. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:24 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I'm not sure if a 1" sq. aluminum would be strong enough.... I guess it would, but my thought process was I don't want to be up in the air in a turbulent day wondering if it is strong enough. You are right though.... it'd probably be abuot 5 lb lighter to go with aluminum. Maybe I ought to do one and then test it to destruction. All it needs to hold is about 2,500lb. If it holds that much that's like pulling 5 G's. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" Subject: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > D.J., Would 1" sq. aluminum bar be strong enough to take a 3/8 drilled > and taped hole? It would be so much lighter than steel bar. > Has any one checked with Chad Willie to see if his plans are just > rip-off of BHP's plans, or did he redraw them with all of the errors, > mistakes, grey areas, black areas, vague areas, confusing areas, etc > cleaned up? If so his plans ( or anyone who cleaned up and redrew the > plans ) would be the way to go. Leon S. with a 55 gal. barrel > of scrap caused by my misinterpreting the grey areas of the plans. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:15 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower --- Jim Ash wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash > > I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's > up, > my air compressor, welder, drill press, wood lathe, metal lathe, > joiner, a > host of smaller power and hand tools, my steel pile, my foundry sands > and > supplies, 5 Corvair engines, and a handful of Corvair transaxles will > all > be going out there. I expect I'll be putting together a set of > Chapter 1000 > tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used > Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years. > > Of course, I hate tools....... > > Jim Ash My brother Larry bought one (Bridgeport) used, a few years ago and is his favorite "toy" here in our factory. We got it in Texas ,imported it and brought it here, still is in perfect shape (also my brother;-) We are also pioneers here, Carlos Angel (KR-1) Jose leon (Monnet motorglider) and me (Piet tail feathers, but never built the plane) were the first projects here, this was 20 years ago. We still are very close friends, now that we are building our 5th project (CH 701) Carlos is working with us after his engine rebuild work. Guys, we found a builder and friend in Jim... Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:55 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass dataplates --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" To all who have ordered brass dataplates from me- thanks for the outstanding response! About half of you should have already received yours, and the rest will go out in today's mail unless I get hit by a truck on the way to the post office. I have been swamped at work but have logged in all the requests and haven't deposited any checks from anyone who hasn't already gotten theirs. It's a tough life; I had to go to Springfield, MO on business... but the good news is that they flew us up in the corporate jet. One hour and twenty-five minutes from San Antonio to Springfield... cruising at FL320. It's a bittersweet feeling, for a low and slow flier to make a cross-country in pressurized comfort, cruising in the Mach numbers! Oscar Zuniga (do not archive) San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:46 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass dataplates --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Oscar, what data plates? Did I miss something? Also, FL 320 is not a useable altitude. Above 290, you use only odd altitudes. The RVSM (reduced vertical seperation mXXX) airspace goes into effect within the next year which will allow use of every even and odd thousand feet all the way upto 450 or something like that but it will require tightened altimetry for anyone wanting to go above 290. A lot of the older corprate jets and iarliners will thusly be shut out of the upper flight levels as a result and the war is on. Shades of when the feds rammed the transponder and mode C issue down our throats. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass dataplates > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > To all who have ordered brass dataplates from me- thanks for the outstanding > response! About half of you should have already received yours, and the > rest will go out in today's mail unless I get hit by a truck on the way to > the post office. I have been swamped at work but have logged in all the > requests and haven't deposited any checks from anyone who hasn't already > gotten theirs. > > It's a tough life; I had to go to Springfield, MO on business... but the > good news is that they flew us up in the corporate jet. One hour and > twenty-five minutes from San Antonio to Springfield... cruising at FL320. > It's a bittersweet feeling, for a low and slow flier to make a cross-country > in pressurized comfort, cruising in the Mach numbers! > > Oscar Zuniga (do not archive) > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:12 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass dataplates --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" damn... that sucks I was hoping to cruise my 'Piet" above FL290.... guess I need to get Mode S and TCAS and whatever else they require. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass dataplates --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Oscar, what data plates? Did I miss something? Also, FL 320 is not a useable altitude. Above 290, you use only odd altitudes. The RVSM (reduced vertical seperation mXXX) airspace goes into effect within the next year which will allow use of every even and odd thousand feet all the way upto 450 or something like that but it will require tightened altimetry for anyone wanting to go above 290. A lot of the older corprate jets and iarliners will thusly be shut out of the upper flight levels as a result and the war is on. Shades of when the feds rammed the transponder and mode C issue down our throats. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass dataplates > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > To all who have ordered brass dataplates from me- thanks for the outstanding > response! About half of you should have already received yours, and the > rest will go out in today's mail unless I get hit by a truck on the way to > the post office. I have been swamped at work but have logged in all the > requests and haven't deposited any checks from anyone who hasn't already > gotten theirs. > > It's a tough life; I had to go to Springfield, MO on business... but the > good news is that they flew us up in the corporate jet. One hour and > twenty-five minutes from San Antonio to Springfield... cruising at FL320. > It's a bittersweet feeling, for a low and slow flier to make a cross-country > in pressurized comfort, cruising in the Mach numbers! > > Oscar Zuniga (do not archive) > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:49 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: a Piet near you ?? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy For any of us, new or old on the Piet list, it's always good to share with others that a great Piet supporter named Doc Mosher has compiled a very complete Piet directory of registered ones out there-----contact him at docshop@tds.net or by mail it's Doc Mosher, 1071 Meadow Lane, Neenah, WI 54956. I think it's five bucks, but better check w/ him. Lists many, many, many Piets and the owners names and addresses. Mike C. in Ohio NEVER cruising at more than two or three hundred feet over the MEF values on the sectional charts. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:41 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" 1. Dick writes- >I would also like to hear more about icing problems that list members >have experienced. How about a plain-Jane Skylane, VFR on a summer afternoon at about 8500 MSL, trimmed for cruise and enjoying the sights on a cross-country, when the engine started sputtering and losing power? Do you have any idea how quickly you can get behind the airplane when it sneaks up on you like that? ;o) I checked and rechecked everything, prop, mixture, throttle, cowl flaps, windows and doors, fuel selector valve, every gauge and dial on the panel... then remembered that little square knob and pulled it but not before losing significant altitude and all of my composure. Whew! Power again! So even the most common and popular, best-engineered, certified-engined spam cans can develop carb ice on the nicest of summer days at cruise power. Don't sit there and try to work your way around providing carb heat on a non-injected airplane engine... aero carb or not (my opinion!) 2. Ken asks- >Question what do you do for carb ice if the heat is already on. What was it they said... "drop a brick and watch where it lands, because that's where you will be in about 30 seconds" ;o) 3. DJ writes- >I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes >and the larger for ift struts. For those who have built their struts out of round tubing (or you're planning to use round tubing to save money), you can still streamline them using the plastic slip-on material the ultralight guys use. Available at http://streamline.8k.com/ and just think of the speed you'll gain by reducing all that drag! 4. Jim asks- >I've seen a few different suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the >difference between them. This was one of my first questions when I started looking at the Pietenpol, and I think you've pretty much gotten the answer you need: get the true-blue plans from Don Pietenpol, and get the manual too. I also got the Flying & Glider Manuals through EAA, which are reprints of the original articles that Mr. Pietenpol wrote and add an interesting narrative to the project. The one to avoid is St. Croix Aircraft, which (I understand) simply copies and sells the Pietenpol/F&G plans. As a point of interest (Mike Cuy, are you listening?), I just looked at http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/stcroisaircraft/pietenaircamper.htm and the St. Croix information is shown... with a picture of Mike Cuy's authentic Pietenpol! I think this should be taken care of immediately, since it's false and misleading and I know Mike doesn't intentionally support the knock-offs. 5. Jack writes- >take a camera with a lot of film and take pictures of every little >detail you can think of, such as how the jury struts attach to the wing and >the lift struts - jury struts aren't even shown on the plans so you can >find >lots of variation here. And the jury struts are one thing you WILL find mentioned in the Pietenpol construction manual, but without any detail. For a really nice rendition of the jury struts (and more information about John Dilatush's Piet in general), see my webpage at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html 6. Gene writes- >everyone calls them Pietenpols, it took me a >while to figure out why some of the planes were so different. As far as the GN-1, as I understand it Mr. Grega distinguished it from the original Pietenpol by calling it "Air Camper" instead of "AirCamper" (two words instead of one), or something like that. A fine line, and now all but insignificant. Suffice it to say that there are many details and structural differences between the Pietenpol and the Grega, but the external appearance is very much the same to the untrained eye. 7. Hank asks- >Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done >on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol? There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage, commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the analysis, unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr. Pietenpol, I wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all means donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the British Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take a bit of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to American greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o) Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're welcome to a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with water from Boston harbor! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:20 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Here is the list of EAA NH Chapters... EAA 917 Alton Bay, NH EAA 1314 Keene, NH www.whickertech.com/eaaeen.htm EAA 336 Nashua, NH http://home.earthlink.net/~archie97/ EAA 225 Rochester, NH EAA 61 Townshend, NH EAA 740 West Lebanon, NH http://www.eaachapter740.org EAA 1085 West Ossipee, NH I think West Ossipee is closer than West Lebanon. EAA 225 is a great little chapter but it is even further away. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ash" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash > > I meant to mention: > > I'm in northern New Hampshire, formally Whitefield, which is about 15 nm > due west of Mount Washington. The local economy is pretty sad, so you don't > see a lot of discretionary money going toward airplanes. We just moved here > a year and a half ago, and I've spent a lot of time doing home fixup stuff > and working out of town, so I'm just finding my way around. > > About the closest EAA Chapter I found is #740. Their meetings are maybe an > hour and a half's drive from here, so it isn't right next door. I've been a > national member for 15(?) years, and have joined local chapters where we > lived here and there. The New Hampshire move is our dream shot, so I expect > we'll be here for a while. > > Somewhere I've got Aircraft Spruce's and Wicks' catalogs, but they're > probably not current. I've been to 3 of the Sportair workshops, but not the > fabric one yet. > > I've built things from plans before, so I know what you mean as far as not > being a kit, but I appreciate the heads up anyway. I fully expect to spend > a month of evenings scrutinizing the plans and adding things up to my > satisfaction before I make a move. I tend to be pretty picky (more than one > person has told me my preflights take longer than anybody they've ever > known), but that's what keeps me alive and kickin'. As long as I can > formulate a plan of action in my head, I'll be OK. Getting started is the > worst for me. > > DJ - I went through your web site a week ago, including your log details > and the intake manifold milling. Are you planning on using the jugs in the > photo? Lon Wall (Corvair Underground) used to sell what he called a > Superkit for engine rebuilding. If I opt for the Corvair engine, I'll > probably get one of his kits. > > Jim Ash > > > At 7/2/2003 02:04 PM -0700, you wrote: > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" > > > >Jim, > > > >You'll probably get 50 answers, all different, but right now it looks like > >I'm the first. > > > >1) Yes, get the plans first. To clear up a confusion, there are actually > >two planes we talk about on the list--the Pietenpol and the GN-1. They only > >look alike, but there are a lot of differences in the details. I got the > >Pietenpol plans because I wanted a 1929 airplane, not a 1950's airplane, > >designed to use "cheap" Piper cub parts and to look old. I'm showing a > >bias, but that was my thinking. Better still, get both--they're cheaper > >than any other part of the project. While you're at it, get the Flying and > >Glider Manual Reprint issue that published the Pietenpol--it's different in > >a lot of details, but helps illustrate the way that BHP was thinking. There > >is a builder's manual available from Don Pietenpol--not particularly useful, > >but there. > > > >Expect to stare at the plans a lot after you get them. There's a lot on > >them, there's a lot that isn't obvious, and there are a few things that you > >have to figure out yourself. > > > >2) Get a copy of the Aircraft Spruce and Supplies catalog. It's big, free, > >and includes most of the stuff that we use. Get the Wicks one too, and > >stare at them for a while. You may not order anything from either, ever, > >but they're useful references. Pick out some pieces to start making--I did > >the wing ribs first, then the tail. Then again, I started from a > >woodworking perspective. > > > >3) Start showing up at your local EAA chapter. They'll start taking you > >seriously when you start bringing in plans and parts. > > > >4) Remember that this isn't a kit. You'll probably spend more time > >figuring out what to do next than actually doing it, especially after you > >get the basic framing done. > > > >5) You don't say what part of the country you're in, but there's probably > >someone on the list within a hundred miles or so. Visit them for > >inspiration. > > > >Have fun--it's a great project! > > > >Gene Hubbard > >San Diego > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Jim Ash [mailto:ashcan@earthlink.net] > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash > > > > > >OK, I've thought about this off and on for three years, and a lot again in > >the last few weeks. > > > >So where do I start? Obviously picking up a set of plans, to begin with. I > >was expecting to get them from Don Pietenpol, but I've seen a few different > >suppliers of plans and I'd like to know the difference between them. Is > >there any supplemental documentation I should consider, such as tech > >briefs, or a newsletter? A construction manual would be ideal, but I don't > >expect that. I'm a first-time builder, but I can machine, weld (steel, > >aluminum, stainless, 4130 tubing, cast iron, ...), form sheet metal, > >sand-cast, and even stitch, but I'm a little rusty there. > > > >I have a bunch of other questions, as far as suppliers and construction > >sequence, but let's keep the discussion simple for now. We'll get there. > > > >Jim Ash > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:06 PM PST US From: "hjarrett" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" Are there any members of the Pietenpol family or British Piet guys on the list that can help? I know the analysis "could" be done again, but to do it right you need the loads analysis first and I haven't got that either (plus, even 30 years ago when I got my degree they weren't teaching ANYTHING about analysis of wood fuselages. I'm using my fathers aero books from the late 30s and 40s along with some ancient NACA reports to learn the "old way"). Hank Jarrett 7. Hank asks- >Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done >on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol? There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage, commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the analysis, unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr. Pietenpol, I wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all means donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the British Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take a bit of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to American greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o) Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're welcome to a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with water from Boston harbor! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:46 PM PST US From: Kip & Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner >> tables, and if there's any room left, I'll treat myself to that used >> Bridgeport J-head milling machine I've wanted for years. >> >> Of course, I hate tools....... >> >> Jim Ash > >My brother Larry bought one (Bridgeport) used, a few years ago and is >his favorite "toy" here in our factory. We got it in Texas ,imported >it and brought it here, still is in perfect shape (also my brother;-) > >We are also pioneers here, Carlos Angel (KR-1) Jose leon (Monnet >motorglider) and me (Piet tail feathers, but never built the plane) >were the first projects here, this was 20 years ago. > >We still are very close friends, now that we are building our 5th >project (CH 701) Carlos is working with us after his engine rebuild >work. > >Guys, we found a builder and friend in Jim... > >Saludos >Gary Gower >Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. Up here in the Rust Belt, one of the members of my EAA chapter regularly picks up good condition Bridgeports at auction for $200-500 apiece and resells them. Sad to see so many shops closing up as the work all goes to China. Hoover (the vacuum cleaner people) is one of the big employers in my town; last year they sent 95% of their tooling contracts to Chinese shops, with the remaining 5% kept local. Kip Gardner North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:26 PM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" Anyone have a list of EAA chapters in Indiana? All the links I've found are dead, but I'm reasonably certain there is an active chapter in my area (Terre Haute), because I see the occasional EAA bumper sticker at the local home-improvement center... Thanks... John John Ford jford@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:28 PM PST US From: John Myers Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA chapters --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Myers National lists the following 2dfef42.jpg NAME EAA 83 President Darrel Zeck Phone Number (812) 208-1398 Location Terre Haute, IN Meeting 2nd Sat., Noon Meeting Location Contact President EMail bendix49@aol.com Go to http://www.eaa.org/chapter/chapter_locator.html then id the state you are interested in. At 08:09 PM 7/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" > >Anyone have a list of EAA chapters in Indiana? All the links I've found >are dead, but I'm reasonably certain there is an active chapter in my area >(Terre Haute), because I see the occasional EAA bumper sticker at the >local home-improvement center... > >Thanks... > >John > > >John Ford >jford@indstate.edu >812-237-8542 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:19 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash Cy - Thanks for the chapter list. I pulled the same list from the EAA web site maybe two years ago before we moved up here. It's probably about the same drive time to West Ossippee, because it's local roads instead of Interstate from here. I've got contacts in the West Lebanon crowd, and I've already been down to visit one of them and check out his project. They were trying to get me to buy one of the hangars at Dean in North Haverhill. I think they also hang out with some of the Post Mills people, which if you're into gliders (I am), ain't a bad place to be. I'll probably run down to meet the Ossippee people and say hi anyhow. I suspect they're centered about Windsock airpark. I drove around out there a couple times with the idea of maybe buying some property, but it was a bit too far from civilization at the time, and I didn't have the time to start a house-building project. The social aspects of a good chapter have strong, albeit sometimes less tangeable, merits. In another life in another place, I've driven past one nameless chapter that was more of an expensive toys contest than a grassroots crowd, specifically to get to another chapter that was (and still is) very grass roots. I'll feel out some of the nearby chapters and see where I best fit, including #225. Jim Ash At 7/3/2003 04:16 PM -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > >Here is the list of EAA NH Chapters... > > EAA 917 Alton Bay, NH > EAA 1314 Keene, NH www.whickertech.com/eaaeen.htm > EAA 336 Nashua, NH http://home.earthlink.net/~archie97/ > EAA 225 Rochester, NH > EAA 61 Townshend, NH > EAA 740 West Lebanon, NH http://www.eaachapter740.org > EAA 1085 West Ossipee, NH > > >I think West Ossipee is closer than West Lebanon. EAA 225 is a great >little chapter but it is even further away. > >Cy Galley >Editor, EAA Safety Programs >cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org >... ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:54 PM PST US From: "rod wooller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rod wooller" Thanks for the info DJ. I will buy some large struts when we get to New York and ship them home. I will use the same size for the cabanes as the 10'6'' lengths will have to be cut for shipping and I can get one strut and cabane from each length. What are you using for wing strut forks ? There are some Aeronca forks listed in the AS&S catalog, but no dimensions given. Are you familiar with these forks ? Thanks for you help. Rod Wooller Australia (Leaving tomorrow for Brodhead via London, NY and Chicago) >From: "DJ Vegh" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts >Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:24:09 -0700 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > >I am using the skytek struts. I'm using the smaller size for the cabanes >and the larger for ift struts. > >I did the math and figured that the smaller struts would be sufficient for >lift struts but I wanted an extra factor of safety so I went witht he >larger >struts. > >For the cabanes I inserted .75" x 1" 2024 T3 aluminum bar about 5" long >into >the strut to terminate the ends see the photos here > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-30-03.htm > >For the lift strutsI will instert 1x1 4130 solid steel bar about 7" long >into the lower ends so that I can tap and thread a hole for lift strut >forks. > >They are probably a tad heavier than 4130 streamline but you can get all >the >strut material for cabanes, lift and jury struts for about $290 and no >welding is required. > >They make some nice jury strut streamline tube as well... > > >DJ Vegh >N74DV >Mesa, AZ >www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > >- > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "rod wooller" >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skytek struts > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rod wooller" > > > > > A question (or two) for anyone who has used the 6061-T6 streamline lift > > struts from Skytek. > > > > Is the "small" strut (2.44''x1.00") ok to use or do we have to up the >size > > to the "large" strut seeing that it is 6061 and not steel, as in the >plans >? > > > > Have you used the same size for the lift struts and the cabanes ? > > > > Hope to meet plenty of Piet builders at Brodhead (and ask a lot more > > questions). > > > > Rod Wooller > > Chidlow > > Australia > > > > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to > > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp > > > > > > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:14 PM PST US From: clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Let's get started --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif Ha! Ha! But seriously, or more so anyway Those Neuport guys gave an excellent talk, presentation and answer session at Arlington last year. They should be there again this year. I don't have that Sport Av yet so I don't know what they had to say in it. Maybe I can get an email addy from them. There's also a group up here doing the same with texas parasols. Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash > > I'm currently in the process of putting up a shop building. Once it's up, > > Of course, I hate tools....... > > Jim Ash > > At 7/3/2003 12:40 AM -0700, you wrote: > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif > >