Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Grand Tour (Rcaprd@aol.com)
2. 05:02 AM - Grand Tour Report from Chuck G. (Michael D Cuy)
3. 06:34 AM - Need a prop! (Seibert Bob-r18643)
4. 07:28 AM - Re: Grand Tour (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Need a prop! (Isablcorky@aol.com)
6. 08:06 AM - Let's get started (Sayre, William G)
7. 08:45 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Steve Eldredge)
8. 09:36 AM - Re: Looking for builders/flyers in Southern Calif (Hubbard, Eugene)
9. 10:04 AM - cabane cross brace wires (DJ Vegh)
10. 11:04 AM - Re: cabane cross brace wires (Michael D Cuy)
11. 11:32 AM - Re: cabane cross brace wires (DJ Vegh)
12. 02:06 PM - Re: cabane cross brace wires (Gdascomb@aol.com)
13. 02:40 PM - Re: Need a prop! (Carbarvo@aol.com)
14. 05:30 PM - latest entry in web log - center section & cabanes (DJ Vegh)
15. 07:58 PM - elevator trim systems (William Young)
16. 08:06 PM - Re: elevator trim systems (DJ Vegh)
17. 10:41 PM - Re: Let's get started (clif)
18. 11:33 PM - Re: large lift struts (clif)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
We call it the 'Grand Tour'...a lap around Wichita. I flew it Sunday
morning, with several fly bys (two T.P. drops) at a few selected targets. I took
off
about 7 am, with quite a bit of wind. The sock was about half full, and
maybe 5 or 10 degrees right cross wind. The whole trip was Rock & Roll. When
I
returned, the sock was almost straight out, with about 40 degrees right
crosswind, and gusty. Scariest landing I've made yet, in the Piet. A gust hit
me
just as I crossed the numbers. I could even feel it on the side of my face, but
then after she settled into ground effect height, it all seemed to settle
down into a decent three point landing...the ol' Piet handled it alot better than
I did. It was a 2 1/2 hr flight, with at least another hour's worth of fuel
onboard. She's got some long legs !! On back taxi, the tail wind and the
prop blast met just ahead of the fin, and with full right rudder, she just kept
going left. Had to shut down, and push 'er across the runway.
We also made it to the EAA chap. 88 Fly-In at El Dorado on Saturday morning.
Ya just can't believe how good it feels to be flying this plane !! YEE
HAAWW !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wichita KS
installing brakes this week, getting ready for the 'Big Adventure' !!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Grand Tour Report from Chuck G. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Chuck Gantzer----wonderful report on what happens to a builder when he
keeps plugging along, day by day, week by week......and then VICTORY
!!! Glad to hear you are enjoying the long-term fun rewards for your
hard work.
Mike C.
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643 <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
Good news and bad news here in Taylor Tx.
First the good news -
It is all together with shiny yellow paint and a weight of 580 pounds!
(I couldn't believe it so I weighed it twice !)
Now the bad news -
The CG is a disaster!
With a 190 pound pilot the CG is 22.5 inches behind the leading edge.
I have an A65 Continental with the motor mount extended 3 inches over the plans.
I moved the wing back 2 inches also.
Looks like I need more weight in the nose and more moving of the wing.
(I hate to do that because of all the interference with cables, sheet metal, windshields
etc.)
I really used up all my cusswords when I managed to roll the brand new wooden prop
into the wingtip of my RV6.
Busted about a 1 inch chunk out of the prop tip. Didn't hurt the fiberglass wingtip
on the -6 though!
Bottom line is that I am looking for a metal prop.
I figure it will cure a lot of my CG issues and be more resistant to crashing into
other stuff in the hangar.
Does anyone have a prop from a Cub, Champ, etc. that they are willing to sell?
If it needs repair/repitching that's not an issue. I can do that.
Has anybody got a prop they want to sell?
By the way - I would suggest if you are hanging an A65 on yours, extend the mount
about 6 inches!
It will keep the neighbor kids from learning colorful new language.
Bob Seibert
Six Sigma Quality
-------------------------------------------------------
Motorola POPI Classification:
General Business Use
Message 4
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Congrats Chuck!!
I am glad for your success. Now, knowing that you have spent a fair amount of
time refining your airplane, I have a question. Would you please summarize for
us the configuration changes you've made since you first got off the ground.
It sounds like you've arrived at a configuration that is really working good
for you. I am aware of the engine change you made. So, for the benefit of those
of us not there yet and to tap into your "lessons learned".... What other
refinements have made your airplane so sweet?
T. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Need a prop! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Bob,
I have a Metal McCauley which I used on 41CC the first 15hrs of test time.
The test pilot remarked that the rpm would run too high if not constantly
adjusted. One day a bystander (AI) remarked that the prop appeared short of the
stamped 71-48. He took out a small tape and measured it to be 66 long.
I have this prop holding up a corner in my shop and am waiting for any offer
I can't refuse. I have an A-65 engine. This prop weighs 22 lbs. The new Hegy
on the plane now weighs 8 lbs. If you can use it it's yours REAL cheap.
Corky in La trying to sell (give away) short props.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
A couple of suggestions for information that I'm surprised haven't been mentioned...
Complete set of Tony Bingelis books and Micheal Cuy's excellent video which has
a number of great suggestions.
And since I'm out of lurking mode for a moment, I'd like to point out that I think
Chad Willie had family permission to distribute prints for a time. I think
around the time he developed the biplane Piet (the Aerial). I could be wrong,
but if I remember right, it was difficult to get prints for a while and he
filled the void. I know he certainly gets a lot of heat for being a very strong
admirer of the design.
Another difference between the GN-1 and the original Piet is the nose radii of
the airfoil that John Grega said would produce a less-sharp stall. I've never
had the pleasure of flying a GN-1, but I'm sure it is a fun design.
With engineering and stress analysis - I'm sure it's a fun exercise but for confidence,
try to research past accidents. Pete Bowers Piet (688Y) which was an
original built by Bernie came through a rough field landing and a fence and
protected the pilot and passenger fine. There's a great story floating around
about one being flown square into a corn crib and Ernie Gann hit power lines
landing his at his property on San Jaun Island. He hit the ground so hard at
a 45-degree angle that it bounced backwards and crumpled the tail. Amazing to
look at - the nose and tail completely destroyed but the plywood box for the
occupants completely intact. Only injury to Ernie was his knee went through the
plywood above the cutout and caused very little injury.
The only death I've witnessed with the Piet was a passenger who refused to wear
the shoulder straps provided, and he died of head injuries after a stall-spin
accident while making a downwind takeoff followed by a downwind turn. The pilot
(wearing shoulder straps) came out fine.
The Piet is very stout if built to the plans - even if using the original materials.
And regardless of the propulsion used, it's got to be the most fun. I've
never had to pay to attend an air show that I flew a Pietenpol to. They always
want to display it.
The above are my humble opinions worth just what you paid for them - maybe less.
Message 7
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
Steve E will be there Saturday. C182. Next year in the piet for the
75'th.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Christian Bobka
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
<bobka@compuserve.com>
Bobka will be to brodhead for friday saturday (in a Cessna 140) and then
OSHKOSH for tues wed but driving and camping.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle"
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Brodhead Thursday-Sunday am.....Oshkosh Sunday afternoon-Saturday
am.......
>
> I'm also taking a digital still camera (and video)....but this year I
think
> I'll focus on a part of the plane....then move the camera a little to
some
> other part close to where I WAS going to take the picture.....I'm sick
and
> tired of looking at pictures and wishing I had gotten a shot of "that
area
> RIGHT NEXT to where I took the picture".....
>
> If you know what I mean......
>
> Jim in Plano
> NX25JM
>
> Making great progress on my Air Camper project!!!!! I'm just 3 or 4
hours
> away from completing 2 knotty pine night stands for my wife....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rickards" <krickards@cvci.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Rickards
<krickards@cvci.com>
> >
> >
> > Just a quick question! Who on the list will be going to Oshkosh
this
> year,
> > flying or driving. I'm going armed with my digital camera, ready to
get
> as
> > many ideas as I can, from the more experienced builders and flyers.
I
> would
> > love to meet with anyone that's going!
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > GN1 2992
> >
> > Canada
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Looking for builders/flyers in Southern Calif |
ornia
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Gary,
Stop by EAA Chapter 14 in San Diego some Saturday morning. My plane is
getting "close" to being ready to cover.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary M. Colwill [mailto:g.colwill3@verizon.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for builders/flyers in Southern
California
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill"
<g.colwill3@verizon.net>
Hello,
I'm a prospective builder, looking for examples of finished and
unfinished Piets in Southern California to gawk at. If you're interested
in showing your handiwork to a newbie please reply.
Gary M. Colwill
Chino, CA
Message 9
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| Subject: | cabane cross brace wires |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
My GN-1 plans are a bit shady on the size of cable used for the X brace wires for
the front and rear cabanes.
Is 3/32" cable sufficient or is it supposed to be 1/8"
DJ
=
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: cabane cross brace wires |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
DJ--- Piet plans call for 1/8" plans. I'd go w/ the 1/8".
Mike C.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: cabane cross brace wires |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
ok.... 1/8" it is.
DJ
=
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: cabane cross brace wires |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gdascomb@aol.com
I'm confused......my plans say 3/32". Which one is best?
George
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Need a prop! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
Has anybody you know of ever cast a spinner out of lead?....Carl
Vought....Piet builder, new to the group
Message 14
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| Subject: | latest entry in web log - center section & cabanes |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I updated my construction log today. Some more photos of the center section
progress and cabanes.
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/GN1-log-003.htm
I'm hoping to have the center section built and rigged within the next 2
weeks.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
Message 15
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| Subject: | elevator trim systems |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Young <wry22@drexel.edu>
I was watching Mike Cuy's video tonight and he mentions an elevator
trim system. I was wondering if he or anyone else might be able to
elaborate on how it works?
Thanks Will
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: elevator trim systems |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I believe it is a stick tensioner rather than a true trim tab system.
beyond that I don't recall the details
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Young" <wry22@drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim systems
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Young <wry22@drexel.edu>
>
> I was watching Mike Cuy's video tonight and he mentions an elevator
> trim system. I was wondering if he or anyone else might be able to
> elaborate on how it works?
>
> Thanks Will
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Let's get started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Or maybe more- Clif
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G"
<william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
>
> With engineering and stress analysis - I'm sure it's a fun exercise but
for confidence, try to research past accidents. Pete Bowers Piet (688Y)
which was an original built by Bernie came through a rough field landing and
a fence and protected the pilot and passenger fine. There's a great story
floating around about one being flown square into a corn crib and Ernie Gann
hit power lines landing his at his property on San Jaun Island. He hit the
ground so hard at a 45-degree angle that it bounced backwards and crumpled
the tail. Amazing to look at - the nose and tail completely destroyed but
the plywood box for the occupants completely intact. Only injury to Ernie
was his knee went through the plywood above the cutout and caused very
little injury.
>
> The only death I've witnessed with the Piet was a passenger who refused to
wear the shoulder straps provided, and he died of head injuries after a
stall-spin accident while making a downwind takeoff followed by a downwind
turn. The pilot (wearing shoulder straps) came out fine.
>
> The Piet is very stout if built to the plans - even if using the original
materials. And regardless of the propulsion used, it's got to be the most
fun. I've never had to pay to attend an air show that I flew a Pietenpol
to. They always want to display it.
>
> The above are my humble opinions worth just what you paid for them - maybe
less.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: large lift struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
I'm a little late on this one but I think the area
of concern is that between the bolt hole edge
and the side of the bar, both sides added.
For 6061 the strength/ sq in is around 30,000 lbs
The area we're talking about is 1"-3/8= 5/8 sq in.
Multiplied by 30,000 gives over 18,000 lb!
Times four struts........
The 3/8 bolt itself is in shear at two points.
Find the area of the bolt circle, multiply by two,
multply by the shear strength and.....
A=pi times radius times radius.
3/16 x 3/16 x 3.14 = 0.11 sq in
Add top and bottom shear points= 0.22 sq in
AN bolt at 125,000 lb shear X 0.22 in = 27500 lb
Even assuming the actual useful safe strength as
considerably less is this strong enough DJ?
Those 3/16, 1/4 and 5/16 bolts called for by Bernard
are plenty strong enough in their respective locations.
I think the prime concern would be stress risers,
cracks, etc. in the holes and edges. Certainly
more of a concern in aluminum than steel.
Clif
PS, Don't assume this works for wood, it's a little
different. Especialy in longitudinal pull.
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> I'm not sure if a 1" sq. aluminum would be strong enough.... I guess it
> would, but my thought process was I don't want to be up in the air in a
> turbulent day wondering if it is strong enough.
>
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