Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 07/09/03


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:57 AM - Re: large lift struts (Christian Bobka)
     2. 07:45 AM - Re: update on project - turtledeck (DJ Vegh)
     3. 07:48 AM - Re: cabane x-bracing (DJ Vegh)
     4. 08:09 AM - some GN-1 laser cut parts still available (DJ Vegh)
     5. 08:43 AM - DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence  (Michael D Cuy)
     6. 08:54 AM - GN-1 Weight and Balance (Dick and Marge Gillespie)
     7. 09:04 AM - Re: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence  (tim moody)
     8. 09:16 AM - EAA Experimenter 54-57 (Jim Vydra)
     9. 09:33 AM - Re: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence  (DJ Vegh)
    10. 03:23 PM - Re: let's get started; odds & ends (Alan James)
    11. 03:49 PM - Re: Taylorcraft newsgroup (hjarrett)
    12. 04:22 PM - Re: Taylorcraft newsgroup (Dave and Connie)
    13. 09:33 PM - turtledeck installation (Brants)
    14. 10:49 PM - Re: turtledeck installation (Gary McNeel)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:57:05 AM PST US
    From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
    Subject: Re: large lift struts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com> 7075 has a propensity to crack unless you ream the holes and dress the saw marks. You have to be careful using it as it is not as forgiving as other aluminum alloys. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh <aircamper@imagedv.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> > > Clif, > > great post but..... the bolt I am talking about is the fork that threads > into the end of the lift strut. It has 7/16-20 threads. My concern is it > would not be wise to use aluminum that has "homemade" cut threads into it. > If those threads fail then so does the strut and from there it's all over. > > I'd feel much safer with a 4130 steel bar and have a machine shop thread it. > > Although 7075 aluminum would be alot stronger than 6061 or 2024 and > certainly lighter than steel bar.... > > I dunno .... I guess I'll worry about this when I get to it. > > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "clif" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: large lift struts > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> > > > > I'm a little late on this one but I think the area > > of concern is that between the bolt hole edge > > and the side of the bar, both sides added. > > > > For 6061 the strength/ sq in is around 30,000 lbs > > The area we're talking about is 1"-3/8= 5/8 sq in. > > Multiplied by 30,000 gives over 18,000 lb! > > Times four struts........ > > The 3/8 bolt itself is in shear at two points. > > Find the area of the bolt circle, multiply by two, > > multply by the shear strength and..... > > > > A=pi times radius times radius. > > 3/16 x 3/16 x 3.14 = 0.11 sq in > > > > Add top and bottom shear points= 0.22 sq in > > > > AN bolt at 125,000 lb shear X 0.22 in = 27500 lb > > > > Even assuming the actual useful safe strength as > > considerably less is this strong enough DJ? > > > > Those 3/16, 1/4 and 5/16 bolts called for by Bernard > > are plenty strong enough in their respective locations. > > > > I think the prime concern would be stress risers, > > cracks, etc. in the holes and edges. Certainly > > more of a concern in aluminum than steel. > > > > Clif > > > > PS, Don't assume this works for wood, it's a little > > different. Especialy in longitudinal pull. > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> > > > > > > I'm not sure if a 1" sq. aluminum would be strong enough.... I guess it > > > would, but my thought process was I don't want to be up in the air in a > > > turbulent day wondering if it is strong enough. > > > > > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:45:16 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: update on project - turtledeck
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> my site has lots of turtleneck pics. The way I did mine was I made the front former and the most aft former and glued them onto the fuse. I then marked 7 ticks equally spaced around the formers. Then I used a string pulled tight over the marks from front to rear. At that point I plotted the dimensions for the other 2 formers in between. The result produced a turtleneck that has perfectly straight stringers that follow the contour exactly. some pics here http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-27-02.htm I also chose to have a storage area in the turtleneck. It's just big enough to stash my headset, goggles, and handheld GPS.... maybe some charts too. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brants" <tmbrant@usfamily.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on project > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Brants" <tmbrant@usfamily.net> > > I've taken another major step towards completion of the fuselage over the last few days... I've been working on the turtledeck. I looked up all the posts on how others have done it, tried a few different ways and finally found something that worked for me. This was a totally frustrating experience as I did not expect this to be that difficult. I've read posts of some people doing this in a few hours... After I've tried different methods I came up with one (maybe not original) that I could probably do in about 6 hours if I were to do it again. > > I used Home Depot cedar lumber for the stringers - 1/4" x 1 1/4" is what seemed to stick in my mind after a visit to Dels project last fall. > > Has anyone tried putting the "helmet box" in after the turtledeck is installed? I kinda figured I wouldn't want it, but now am reconsidering. I would think a router with a decent jig set up would make a nice cut-out. > > Anyway, I'll have photos of the turtledeck installation on the web in a few days in case anyone's interested. Now that this is done, I'm wondering what to tackle next... Maybe the tail section... > > Looking forward to Brodhead! > > Tom Brant > Brooklyn Park, MN > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:48:18 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: cabane x-bracing
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> Arthur, thanks for the help! I will be contacting you soon. I'd like to try your idea for my elevator and rudder cables. Send me some pictures of those terminals... I'd love to see them DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Johnson" <aejohnson@email.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Arthur Johnson" <aejohnson@email.com> > > DJ, > I can organise you swaged Ronstan forks on whatever length 1/8th cable you > like at cost, (no charge for swageing, we do it in house) Ronstan > RF1508-0404 are $12USD each and 1/8th 316 7 X 19 cable is less than a buck a > metre. Air mail to States would be less than $20 and would take about a > week. If you want further info I can send you digital photos off line. I am > useing these swaged terminals for my shoulder harness in my Piet. > Cheers, > Arthur Johnson > Piet and Corvair builder in Oz > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Ash > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net> > > Do you know if they roll the threads or cut them? > > Jim Ash > > > At 7/8/2003 09:24 PM -0400, you wrote: > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Craig Wilcox" > ><CRAIGWILCOX@peoplepc.com> > > > >DJ - > >Do it the way I did my tail wires - find a friendly local machine shop, and > >have them thread some 3/16" stainless, one end left, one end right. The > >AN662 fittings will then screw on, with check nuts, and you will be set. > >You can even have them machine the little flat that helps turn them for > >adjustments. My wires were about $10 each, plus the fittings (they average > >$12 ea as an assembly). > >Craig > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> > >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane x-bracing > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> > > > > > > I got to thinking that it may be cool to use stainless streamline wires > >for > > > the cabane x-bracing. > > > > > > I called Steen Aero Lab , the only US distributor of Bruntons. Bruntons > >is > > > one of the VERY few companies who make flying wires. They are in > >Scotland. > > > > > > For streamlined stainless cabane wires with AN clevis ends and check > nuts > > > the total was $400. > > > > > > A bit too steep for me. I was hoping they'd be about $65 a wire or > less. > > > Lead time is 12 weeks since they come from overseas. > > > > > > So..... I have decided to do stainless 1/8" cable. I called AS&S today > >and > > > had them custom make me the cables with forks swaged on one end. The > >other > > > end I will nicopress to a cable eye which screws into the turnbuckle > >barrel. > > > The nicopress and turnbuckles will be hidden inside the instument panel. > > > The visible end of the wires will have no "ugly" nicopress clamps... > only > > > clean looking stainless swaged forks. Total cost for all the wires, > >forks, > > > barrels, cable eyes, clevis pins & cotter pins and swaging fees was > $150. > > > > > > Only bummer is there's a 4 week lead time on them. The center section > > > construction will have to wait til then. > > > > > > DJ Vegh > > > N74DV > > > Mesa, AZ > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:09:16 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
    Subject: some GN-1 laser cut parts still available
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> I still have 3 extra rudder horns 2 extra sets of tail wheel rudder horns and a set of walking beam mounts... all laser cut If any of you want some for your Piet or GN-1 let me know. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper -


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:43:50 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> for those of you who might have skipped DJ Vegh's web site link, it really is a testimony to the fact that with some common shop tools, spring clamps, c-clamps, and racheting cloth straps that you can do a really clean, neat, quality job on any part of the Pietenpol. Very, very, impressive workmanship and assy. pics. I think with planes like these being produced by you guys and the rest of the Piet crowd that folks are going to gravitate more and more to this design as they see how 'nice' they can look. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know many folks out there who have the money for all those rows and rows of gorgeous RV's, Lancairs, and such that come to Oshkosh. It's great that these fast, expensive homebuilts put any factory planes to shame in all aspects, it's just that the Piet is affordable flying and building for the common man. Er....woman, ok whatever. Mike C. oh, here's DJ's link....... http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/10-27-02.htm


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:54:13 AM PST US
    From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick@peganet.com>
    Subject: GN-1 Weight and Balance
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" <margdick@peganet.com> Anybody out there have main and tail wheel weights with a 65 Continental, I'd love to have them. DickG in the W & B process.


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:04:05 AM PST US
    From: tim moody <tj_moody@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: tim moody <tj_moody@yahoo.com> I couldn't't agree more. I have cruised through DJ's web page and have found the workmanship and details illustrated by they numerous photos to be very encouraging. I am glad to see some updated posts on his site. I haven't ever done a web page before, but when I start my project I would like to. I will probably have some very elementary questions about setting up a site when I get to it, but I am looking forward to the information that I can glean from this group. I am in the middle of building a house after work, hope to be done in about 3 more months. After that I hope to start building an airplane. I am drawn to the affordability and building it myself. I am sure that I will be looking at DJ's photos and anyone else's to get ideas on how to construct the various phases. I have actually purchased Mikes video but haven't had time to view it yet. I am really looking forward to doing a fun building project. __________________________________


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:16:15 AM PST US
    From: Jim Vydra <jvydra@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: EAA Experimenter 54-57
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Vydra <jvydra@sbcglobal.net> Hi All, I have just listed the EAA Experimenter...full years 55-56-57..march through nov 1954, on e-bay. many back issues of SA to come. Jim Vydra Springfield, MO


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:33:21 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com> Thanks guys.... :-) I know many of you have been waiting patiently for new entries. I had expected to do alot of building this past fall/winter but my other hobby (my car) totally zapped my time and money. I've since slowed down with that and have decided to devote most of my free time back to the plane. Look to see more entries on the site on a semi-weekly basis for a while. Hoping to have the center section built as soon as AS&S sends my cabane wires. Until then I'm working on small odds and ends on the fuse and tail group. I'd REALLY love to fly this thing in October/November of 2004 DJ Vegh N74DV www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: tim moody To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: DJ's turtle deck assy. photo sequence --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: tim moody <tj_moody@yahoo.com> I couldn't't agree more. I have cruised through DJ's web page and have found the workmanship and details illustrated by they numerous photos to be very encouraging. I am glad to see some updated posts on his site. I haven't ever done a web page before, but when I start my project I would like to. I will probably have some very elementary questions about setting up a site when I get to it, but I am looking forward to the information that I can glean from this group. I am in the middle of building a house after work, hope to be done in about 3 more months. After that I hope to start building an airplane. I am drawn to the affordability and building it myself. I am sure that I will be looking at DJ's photos and anyone else's to get ideas on how to construct the various phases. I have actually purchased Mikes video but haven't had time to view it yet. I am really looking forward to doing a fun building project. __________________________________ = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:23:48 PM PST US
    From: "Alan James" <MADjames@theknapp.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: let's get started; odds & ends
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alan James" <MADjames@theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> Chris, I am unable to confirm the PFA's view on the subject, and having had most of the parts welded, brazing has never been an issue. The only parts brazed on G-BUCO are the tubes passing through the cabane struts and similarly, the bearing tubes through the torque tube. Paul Prince of Aviation Metalcraft (makers of the UK Piet metal fuselage) confirms that he does the same. Alan James ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com> > > Alan James, > > What does PFA documentation say about brazing 4130? > > chris bobka > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan James <MADjames@theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alan James" > <MADjames@theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> > > > > I know of no-one over here in the UK who admits to having carried out a > > stress analysis of the wooden Piet. The only chap who may have come close > is > > Jim Wills who designed some built up spars some years ago that now form > part > > of the UK plans. Unfortunately, Jim is unwilling to share details of his > > spars outside the UK (and presumably any other associated information) in > > fear of litigation should anything go wrong. > > > > We also have a metal tube fuselage option approved for use and built by > Paul > > Prince of Aviation Metalcraft, but it bears little resemblance to the way > > Bernard designed his. > > > > PS - I'll coming over to Brodhead to claim that nice cup of tea. Should be > > arriving sometime Friday evening. Don't forget to put the kettle on... > > > > Alan James (G-BUCO) > > The UK Pietenpol Club > > > > > > --- Original Message ----- > > From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: let's get started; odds & ends > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net> > > > > > > Are there any members of the Pietenpol family or British Piet guys on > the > > > list that can help? I know the analysis "could" be done again, but to > do > > it > > > right you need the loads analysis first and I haven't got that either > > (plus, > > > even 30 years ago when I got my degree they weren't teaching ANYTHING > > about > > > analysis of wood fuselages. I'm using my fathers aero books from the > late > > > 30s and 40s along with some ancient NACA reports to learn the "old > way"). > > > Hank Jarrett > > > > > > > > > 7. Hank asks- > > > >Does anyone have a copy of a stress analysis that has been done > > > >on the wood or steel tube Pietenpol? > > > > > > There was an analysis done on the steel tube, standard Piet fuselage, > > > commissioned by Mr. Pietenpol. But as far as having a copy of the > > analysis, > > > unless it's in Don Pietenpol's personal family effects from Mr. > Pietenpol, > > I > > > wouldn't think it would be around anymore. If you find it, by all means > > > donate it to the EAA Museum! Regarding the analysis done by the British > > > Piet guys, that may very well be available today but would likely take a > > bit > > > of scrounging and may require conversion from pounds sterling to > American > > > greenbacks... or Whitworth to SAE ;o) > > > > > > Happy 4th of July, especially to our British friends! PS- you're > welcome > > to > > > a nice cup of tea with us anytime, and we won't even make it with water > > from > > > Boston harbor! > > > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > > San Antonio, TX > > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:49:16 PM PST US
    From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
    Subject: Re: Taylorcraft newsgroup
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net> To Subscribe to the list send a blank message to: taylorcraft-subscribe@topica.com Great group of guys and gals. INCREDIBLY helpful. Hank Jarrett 41 BC-12-65 45 BC-12D ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Taylorcraft newsgroup > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com> > > Does anyone know about a Taylorcraft newsgroup on the web anywhere? > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:22:15 PM PST US
    From: Dave and Connie <dmatthe1@rochester.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Taylorcraft newsgroup
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie <dmatthe1@rochester.rr.com> Take a look at www.taylorcraft.org web links tab and you will find: Taylorcraft Owner's Club Email-list! Join the Taylorcraft Owners Club Email-list and chat with others with an interest in Taylorcraft! Do one of the following, then follow the instructions in the return mail. Then sit back and converse with the millions of Taylorcraft owners and fans worldwide! Questions? contact the list administrator at tcraft@taylorcraft.org To Subscribe to the list:: Send a blank message to: taylorcraft-subscribe@topica.com To Unsubscribe: Send a blank message to: taylorcraft-unsubscribe@topica.com To Get the digest edition, once a day: Send a blank message to: taylorcraft-request-digest@topica.com Look forward to seeing you on the list. Dave N36078 '41 BC-12-65 At 07:15 PM 7/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D. Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com> > >Does anyone know about a Taylorcraft newsgroup on the web anywhere? > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:33:45 PM PST US
    From: "Brants" <tmbrant@usfamily.net>
    Subject: turtledeck installation
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Brants" <tmbrant@usfamily.net> I've uploaded some photos of my turtledeck installation. I'm happy with how it turned out all though all those small pieces with glue and staples got a bit messy. What's the best method people have used for removing dry T-88 from wood? sanding? Here's the photos. http://public.fotki.com/tab1324/pietenpol_construction/ Tom Brant, Brooklyn Park, MN


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:49:07 PM PST US
    From: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel@mykitplane.com>
    Subject: turtledeck installation
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary McNeel" <gmcneel@mykitplane.com> I sanded it. Scraping it can peel up wood, the glue is stronger than the wood! But keep in mind that when you varnish, it usually will blend in the T-88. -Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brants Subject: Pietenpol-List: turtledeck installation --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Brants" <tmbrant@usfamily.net> I've uploaded some photos of my turtledeck installation. I'm happy with how it turned out all though all those small pieces with glue and staples got a bit messy. What's the best method people have used for removing dry T-88 from wood? sanding? Here's the photos. http://public.fotki.com/tab1324/pietenpol_construction/ Tom Brant, Brooklyn Park, MN




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