Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:02 AM - Re: [ Bob Seibert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (w b evans)
2. 06:38 AM - Re: First Flight Photo (John Dilatush)
3. 11:31 AM - Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie (Ed Grentzer)
4. 11:55 AM - Michiwaka Flying Club - Aircamper? (DJ Vegh)
5. 12:12 PM - metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions of a newbie (baileys)
6. 02:10 PM - Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was (Mike)
7. 02:47 PM - Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions of a newbie (Larry Neal)
8. 02:56 PM - Piets at Brodhead 2003 (Cinda Gadd)
9. 05:17 PM - Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? ()
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
"Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: [ Bob Seibert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Great pictures, BOB!!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Bob Seibert ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
<pictures@matronics.com>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Bob Seibert <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
>
>
> Subject: First Flight of N23TX
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Bob.Seibert@motorola.com.07.29.2003/index.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include
the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Photo |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seibert Bob-r18643" <Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Photo
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob,
Congratulations! Really looks good both in the air and on the ground!
John
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Seibert Bob-r18643
<Bob.Seibert@motorola.com>
>
> I (hopefully) have posted a couple of photos of N23TX on the Matronics
Photo Share page.
> Hope this worked!
> Hey Corky, does that wing paint scheme look familiar?
>
> Bob Seibert
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Hi Bob Bailey....Welcome to the group but I would recommend not makeing all
the metal parts first. I made that mistake (I followed Tony Bingelis'
recommendation while waiting for my wood order) and ended up remaking alot
of the metal parts. I think most Pieters will agree that you should make the
wood parts first...then.... using the plans as a guide make the metal parts
to fit the wood parts. Just trying to save you some time , metal and
aggrevation. Have fun building though, the Piet is a great project! Ed G.
P.S. The plans call for brazing some of the metal parts and 4130 is the
norm for building these days
( actually since the early 50s) Some people recommend that 4130 should not
be brazed.
>From: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:18:14 -0500
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>
>Hello everyone,
>I just recently joined the group and this is my first posting.
>
>This my third trip to Brodhead. The last was over 5 years ago. (I kind of
>dropped out of flying after the engine was stolen out of my Piper, but that
>is another story)
>Anyway, I have been smitten by the Piet for years and now that I'm retired
>plan to do something about it.
>
>There were two Corvair powered Piets, one of them being the "Last Orginial"
>NX899H. The other one had "Brown Aero" on the fuselage. I did not get to
>talk with either owner, there were so many people asking questions.
>
>While at Brodhead I purchased William Wynn's book, "Corvair Flight Engines
>for use in Experimental Aircraft",
>Three Tee shirts, two cast aluminum rocker covers and a Corvair engine.
>
>The Hoopman family donated Orrins personal collection of Pietenpol
>Newsletters, Sport Avaitions and newsletters from the Internation Pietenpol
>Association to anyone that wanted them. They were on a table and while I
>would like to have taken them all, I only took three. One nice thing is
>that they were addressed to Orrin Hoopman. I get a copy BAP issue 31 -
>1st
>quarter 1991 which featured an article by B.H. Pietenpol about the Corvair
>engine conversion. There are no pictures included but if anyone would
>like
>a copy please send me an off list e-mail with their snail mail address.
>As
>long as the volume is not too high they are free if it gets to be too much
>I'll ask a for a buck. You will still need to get the instructions from
>Don
>Pietenpol but the article is interesting anyway.
>
>Mike Cuy's Piet was there and it is truly a beautiful aircraft. Mike Cuy
>and Lowell Frank were the only two Piet owners that I was able to speak
>with
>and both were very courteous and gave thoughtful answers.
>
>I took about 200 hundred pictures mostly of Piets but some of the antique
>aircraft at the show. After I get them oganized I will post them on my web
>site. Many pictures show details like landing gear closeups, model "A"
>engines, Corvair engines, instrument panels and so fourth and probably
>won't
>be of much interest to anyone except builders. I did get several different
>cockpit door pictures from two different Corbins and the Heath Parsol from
>the inside showing construction details. I'm going to have to put a door
>in
>the front cockpit because wife has arthritus in her knees and won't be able
>to get in otherwise.
>
>William Wynn's seminar on the Corvair conversion was very interesting, as
>was Larry Hudson's converted Corvair engine which was displayed in the
>pavilion for several hours while Larry patiently answered questions. Again
>it was too crowed to get an overall picture, but I did get a few showing
>some details, prop hub, starter etc.
>
>My advice to anyone going to Brodhead that must drive through Beloit is be
>well prepared ahead of time. I got directions from Yahoo which were wrong,
>I stopped and got directions at a store which were wrong also. Finally I
>bought a map and the clerk at that store gave me perfect directions. I
>didn't need the map but got it anyway out of gratitude. I arrived at the
>airport after dark, too late to try and put up my tent so spent the first
>night in my car. After while, pain becomes somewhat of a sedative and I
>did
>get some sleep. In the morning two very nice gentleman from the UK helped
>me put up my tent. Actually, I think they took pity on me. Anyway, never
>put up a tent for the first time in public, practice doing it somewhere
>private until you know what to do. All in all everyone was very polite I
>had a great time, met some truly nice people, learned a lot and am ready
>to
>come back next year. One thing I heard someone say is that they flew over
>Oshkosh, threw out their billfold then and came on to Brodhead.
>Regards,
>Bob Bailey
>P.S. Sorry this got to be so long, sometimes I get carried away. I hope no
>one minds and I promise to keep the stupid questions to a minimum. I plan
>to do the engine conversion and make all the metal parts first.
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Michiwaka Flying Club - Aircamper? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Apparently there is a beautiful yellow Aircamper at the Michiwaka (sp?) airport.
My cousin is hangaring his T-Craft there and happened to notice it in the
hangar that the Michiwaka Flying Club uses...
He said the Aircamper was flawless... a museum piece. Does it belong to anyone
on this list?
I'm headed out there in a few weeks to visit my cousin and I plan on checking it
out.
DJ
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit <http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions of a newbie |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
Thanks Ed,
I hadn't thought of that aspect about making the metal parts first.
Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the lily"
to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use 4130
and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the joint to
relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways? I
have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped using
4130 because it
has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places like
motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone to
cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to know
the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle (Keep
it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
basic design.
Regards,
Bob
> I made that mistake (I followed Tony Bingelis'
> recommendation while waiting for my wood order) and ended up remaking alot
> of the metal parts. I think most Pieters will agree that you should make
the
> wood parts first...then.... using the plans as a guide make the metal
parts
> to fit the wood parts. Just trying to save you some time , metal and
> aggrevation. Have fun building though, the Piet is a great project! Ed
G.
> P.S. The plans call for brazing some of the metal parts and 4130 is the
> norm for building these days
> ( actually since the early 50s) Some people recommend that 4130 should not
> be brazed.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was |
impressions of a newbie
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Hi, Bob,
Welcome to the list.
The subject of 4130, welded or brazed, vs 1025, welded or brazed, gets beat
to death a couple of times a year on this list so there is plenty of reading
available in the list archives. Most of the information you will find is
accurate, with some truly expert opinions interjected where need be.
As to race car motor mounts, most list members probably can't say how best
to make them. However, airplane engine mounts have been made from welded
4130, VERY successfully, for more than half a century.
It is true that a properly brazed steel part is very strong. It is also
true that 4130, under very tightly controlled conditions (that you probably
don't have in your garage or basement), can be safely brazed. Most
homebuilders, though, are casual hobbyists and not trained metallurgists.
For the Pietenpol list, which is full of average airplane homebuilders,
blanket recommendations about building materials and techniques have to
address this fact.
Considering the skills, equipment and materials available to the average
homebuilder, you will have a better airplane, and be more confident carrying
your loved ones in it, if you use 4130 welded with mild steel filler rod for
those parts that were labeled as brazed steel in the original Pietenpol /
Hoopman plans. 4130 is a relatively low carbon, high strength, steel alloy
that hardens sufficiently, achieving a very high percentage of its maximum
available strength, when gas (oxy/acetylene) welded as per simple
instructions you can get from a lot of sources, most especially EAA
publications.
Have a lot of fun reading all the archives, instructions, and soon-to-arrive
responses.
Mike Hardaway
on 7/30/03 12:11, baileys at baileys@ktis.net wrote:
> Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the lily"
> to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
> My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use 4130
> and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the joint to
> relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways? I
> have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped using
> 4130 because it
> has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places like
> motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
> product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone to
> cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
>
> I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to know
> the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle (Keep
> it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
> basic design.
> Regards,
> Bob
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions |
of a newbie
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Neal" <lneal@ev1.net>
Hey Bob, welcome aboard!!
Naw, don't braze 4130:
1. It's discouraged in FAA documentation.
2. After you braze it, you can hear it saying "tink-tink-tink", a sign of
stresses and not reassuring, take it from me.
3. If you braze 4130, you will have to put up with several hundred emails of
various intent and quality from our beloved group ;-).
Not worth it, use a milder steel or weld the 4130.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? was impressions
of a newbie
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike <bike.mike@verizon.net>
>
> Hi, Bob,
>
> Welcome to the list.
>
> The subject of 4130, welded or brazed, vs 1025, welded or brazed, gets
beat
> to death a couple of times a year on this list so there is plenty of
reading
> available in the list archives. Most of the information you will find is
> accurate, with some truly expert opinions interjected where need be.
>
> As to race car motor mounts, most list members probably can't say how best
> to make them. However, airplane engine mounts have been made from welded
> 4130, VERY successfully, for more than half a century.
>
> It is true that a properly brazed steel part is very strong. It is also
> true that 4130, under very tightly controlled conditions (that you
probably
> don't have in your garage or basement), can be safely brazed. Most
> homebuilders, though, are casual hobbyists and not trained metallurgists.
> For the Pietenpol list, which is full of average airplane homebuilders,
> blanket recommendations about building materials and techniques have to
> address this fact.
>
> Considering the skills, equipment and materials available to the average
> homebuilder, you will have a better airplane, and be more confident
carrying
> your loved ones in it, if you use 4130 welded with mild steel filler rod
for
> those parts that were labeled as brazed steel in the original Pietenpol /
> Hoopman plans. 4130 is a relatively low carbon, high strength, steel
alloy
> that hardens sufficiently, achieving a very high percentage of its maximum
> available strength, when gas (oxy/acetylene) welded as per simple
> instructions you can get from a lot of sources, most especially EAA
> publications.
>
> Have a lot of fun reading all the archives, instructions, and
soon-to-arrive
> responses.
>
> Mike Hardaway
>
>
> on 7/30/03 12:11, baileys at baileys@ktis.net wrote:
>
> > Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the
lily"
> > to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
> > My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use
4130
> > and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the
joint to
> > relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways?
I
> > have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped
using
> > 4130 because it
> > has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places
like
> > motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
> > product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone
to
> > cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
> >
> > I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to
know
> > the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle
(Keep
> > it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
> > basic design.
> > Regards,
> > Bob
> >
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Piets at Brodhead 2003 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
The Piet fly-in at Brodhead was really great this
year. There were 16 Piets, 4 local and 12 that came cross country. There
were 9 Continental, 5 A-Model and 2 Corvairs.
Below is my unofficial list.
N-number
Pilot
Color
Power
X899LW
Larry Williams
Yellow/Red
A-Model
X799JK Jim
Kensella
Cream/Red
Continental
8497AR
Lowell Frank
Blue/Silver
A-Model
34KP
Ken Perkins
Orange/Cream A-Model
X71WR
Bill
Rewey
Silver/Yellow Continental
X770CG
Chuck Ganzer
Red/Silver
Continental
25101
J R
Reber
Red/Cream
Continental
X37979
Tom
Brown
Red/Clear Corvair
X12969
Gar Williams
Red/Cream
A-Model
X899H
Bill
Knight
Cream/Red
Corvair
X1138D
Dennis
Hall
Blue/Cream A-Model
X899FP
Frank Pavliga
Red/Cream
Continental
X48MC
Mike
Cuy
Blue/White
Continental
57TL
Tim
Mickle Red/Cream
Continental
58TL
Bill
Emo
Red/Cream
Continental
161DW Mehlin
Smith
Silver/Red
Continental
Larry Williams had some really neat new
wheels/breaks. Jim Kensella hopped a lot of rides. Yes, Lowell Frank removed the
Warner and reinstalled the A/B motor. Great to see Chuck Ganzer's Piet, he was
having a ball. The Bill Knight Corvair is the Last Original. Mike Cuy's Piet
still looks just like it just rolled off the showroom floor. If you left
Brodhead before Sunday noon you missed the twin Piets 57TL and 58TL, they had
some really nice detail and were EXACTLY alike, with 0200
Continentals.
Skip, Back in Atlanta
--- Skip Cinda Gadd
--- csfog@earthlink.net
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: metal parts 4130 versus 1025?? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" <catdesign@intergate.com>
Nothing wrong with using 1020 steel. If the properly designed fitting is
designed to use 1020 steel then its safe to make it out of 1020 steel. Nothing
wrong with using 4130 for a Piet either. I use 4130 because it was easier to
get at the time.
Isn't the Piper Cub fuselages made from mild steel? Thought I read that some
place.
I agree don't make your fittings ahead of time. Make them as needed. Heck
don't make any parts ahead of time. Invariably they wont fit for some reason
or
other. Maybe it's just me.
Chris
Sacramento CA
Quoting baileys <baileys@ktis.net>:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>
> Thanks Ed,
> I hadn't thought of that aspect about making the metal parts first.
>
> Regarding 4130 versus 1025 I'm wondering if it isn't just "gilding the lily"
> to use 4130 instead of the mild steel?
> My understanding is very marginal but I never really understood why use 4130
> and then weld it with mild steel rod. Also, they say to reheat the joint to
> relieve stress. Isn't this just moving the stress down the tube a ways? I
> have a friend that builds race cars and he tells me that they stopped using
> 4130 because it
> has a tendency to crack where subject to a lot of vibration in places like
> motor mounts. Also if BHP used 1025 without problems why change to a
> product that is a lot more expensive, much harder to work with and prone to
> cracking when subject to a lot of vibration?
>
> I'm not trying to start a big deal over this, I would really like to know
> the pros and cons. Also I'm a strong adherent of the KISS principle (Keep
> it simple stupid!) and with a very few exceptions want to stick with the
> basic design.
> Regards,
> Bob
>
>
> > I made that mistake (I followed Tony Bingelis'
> > recommendation while waiting for my wood order) and ended up remaking alot
> > of the metal parts. I think most Pieters will agree that you should make
> the
> > wood parts first...then.... using the plans as a guide make the metal
> parts
> > to fit the wood parts. Just trying to save you some time , metal and
> > aggrevation. Have fun building though, the Piet is a great project! Ed
> G.
> > P.S. The plans call for brazing some of the metal parts and 4130 is the
> > norm for building these days
> > ( actually since the early 50s) Some people recommend that 4130 should not
> > be brazed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|