---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/31/03: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:16 AM - Piets at Brodhead 2003 (Cinda Gadd) 2. 06:37 AM - EAA Manuals (Jim Vydra) 3. 12:06 PM - Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie (Carbarvo@aol.com) 4. 01:15 PM - Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie () 5. 02:04 PM - Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie (Mike) 6. 07:51 PM - Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie (Dmott9@aol.com) 7. 08:53 PM - Brazing 4130 (Al Latham) 8. 09:25 PM - Another new guy (Al Latham) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:47 AM PST US From: "Cinda Gadd" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets at Brodhead 2003 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cinda Gadd" The Piet fly-in at Brodhead was really great this year. There were 16 Piets, 4 local and 12 that came cross country. There were 9 Continental, 5 A-Model and 2 Corvairs. Below is my unofficial list. N-number Pilot Color Power X899LW Larry Williams Yellow/Red A-Model X799JK Jim Kensella Cream/Red Continental 8497AR Lowell Frank Blue/Silver A-Model 34KP Ken Perkins Orange/Cream A-Model X71WR Bill Rewey Silver/Yellow Continental X770CG Chuck Ganzer Red/Silver Continental 25101 J R Reber Red/Cream Continental X37979 Tom Brown Red/Clear Corvair X12969 Gar Williams Red/Cream A-Model X899H Bill Knight Cream/Red Corvair X1138D Dennis Hall Blue/Cream A-Model X899FP Frank Pavliga Red/Cream Continental X48MC Mike Cuy Blue/White Continental 57TL Tim Mickle Red/Cream Continental 58TL Bill Emo Red/Cream Continental 161DW Mehlin Smith Silver/Red Continental Larry Williams had some really neat new wheels/breaks. Jim Kensella hopped a lot of rides. Yes, Lowell Frank removed the Warner and reinstalled the A/B motor. Great to see Chuck Ganzer's Piet, he was having a ball. The Bill Knight Corvair is the Last Original. Mike Cuy's Piet still looks just like it just rolled off the showroom floor. If you left Brodhead before Sunday noon you missed the twin Piets 57TL and 58TL, they had some really nice detail and were EXACTLY alike, with 0200 Continentals. Skip, Back in Atlanta --- Skip Cinda Gadd --- csfog@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:06 AM PST US From: Jim Vydra Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA Manuals --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Vydra It is now 8:30 AM CDT. Less than 6 hours left to bid on EAA Manuals on ebay. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:14 PM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations against brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure my ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any background. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:26 PM PST US From: "" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" I have looked at all the libraries around here and never came up with anything definitive as to why it has become unacceptable (to the FAA) to braze 4130. The only thing I could find is a reference (and I am paraphrasing here what I think I remember) saying the brazing material get into the crystalline structure of the metal and causes the 4130 steel to crack upon cooling. I sure wish I could find this article again. However, so far I have no luck in finding it. Chris Sacramento, CA Quoting "" : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations against > > brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure my > > ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I > went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any > background. ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie From: Mike --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike Considering how easy it is for the hobbyist to make a very high quality weld in 4130 with an inexpensive oxy/acetylene set compared to the actual skill level required to produce a high quality braze that won't be as strong and has so many unknowns about internal corrosion, microscopic cracking, and other gremlins, why do you even care? If it's because "BHP did it that way," you might not want follow his lead blindly in all things; he flew his first airplanes without seatbelts. on 7/31/03 13:15, catdesign@intergate.com at catdesign@intergate.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" > > I have looked at all the libraries around here and never came up with anything > definitive as to why it has become unacceptable (to the FAA) to braze 4130. > The only thing I could find is a reference (and I am paraphrasing here what I > think I remember) saying the brazing material get into the crystalline > structure of the metal and causes the 4130 steel to crack upon cooling. I > sure > wish I could find this article again. However, so far I have no luck in > finding > it. > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > > Quoting "" : > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com >> >> Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations against >> >> brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure my >> >> ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I >> went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any >> background. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:39 PM PST US From: Dmott9@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dmott9@aol.com In a message dated 7/31/03 3:06:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Carbarvo@aol.com writes: > Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations against > > brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure > my > ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I > went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any > background. How about in here: AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair or: http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/43-13/ or: http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/300/pdf/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:37 PM PST US From: "Al Latham" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brazing 4130 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" I can't find any info either, for the ones lucky enough to go to Oshkosh attend one of Richard Finch's welding forums and ask him, reading his bio I think the man can weld Play-Dough... I've brazed the bird cage on a Piper J5 and I hate it, have no idea why anyone would want to do it, but that is just me and I have almost no experience with brazing. Seen others do it and they made it look like a two year old could do it... I have seen a tubing cluster that was in the Gee Bee Ascender that was brazed, it is really mangled from a crash and there isn't a single crack. I wonder if it was something that was more generally used in the days of 1025 tubing? Al Latham ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:04 PM PST US From: "Al Latham" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another new guy --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" Hello Guys, I joined the group last night and had the pleasure of attending my first Brodhead Fly-in last weekend. I can honestly say that we've not enjoyed a fly-in like we did Brodhead in many years. I still feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone movie, my wife who came with me mentioned that she liked the Corbin Junior Ace, this was odd as it doesn't have a radial or a rounded tail. Then on the way home she announced that she wanted to learn to fly. There has been Pietenpol plans laying around the house for many years and our friend Gene Rambo is currently building one. I see the Corbin as a side by side Piet so I've talked Colleen into a Piet (for now). I really want a Super Ace as I can't see having a pair of Piet's. The Pietenpol or Super Ace projects will not start full force for a while yet as I have several projects in work at this time. I am as of this afternoon the proud???Papa of a pair of Model A engines, another thing that I'd of gotten work over pretty hard about...all she said was"when do we go get them???" Al Latham