Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - newbie type question - flutter (baileys)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: It won't be long now (TWINBOOM)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: newbie type question - flutter (John Dilatush)
4. 06:18 AM - Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie (Ed Grentzer)
5. 10:38 AM - Re: newbie type question - flutter (Mike)
6. 11:03 AM - Piet Project on e-bay........... (Michael D Cuy)
7. 11:04 AM - Bob B... (Al Latham)
8. 11:10 AM - late Congratulations to Bob S. in Texas (Michael D Cuy)
9. 11:12 AM - Re: newbie type question - flutter (Richard Navratril)
10. 11:27 AM - looking for parts (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
11. 11:40 AM - Bob Seibert's Piet (Ken Chambers)
12. 12:37 PM - Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie (Carbarvo@aol.com)
13. 01:01 PM - Re: It won't be long now (Carbarvo@aol.com)
14. 01:53 PM - S.A. Magazine (Jim Vydra)
15. 03:12 PM - Re: newbie type question - flutter (Jack Phillips)
16. 05:03 PM - Re: looking for parts (Jim Ash)
17. 07:17 PM - Re: newbie type question - flutter (Alex Sloan)
18. 07:53 PM - Re: It won't be long now (Alex Sloan)
19. 10:39 PM - Re: newbie type question - flutter (Mike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | newbie type question - flutter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: It won't be long now |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "TWINBOOM" <TWINBOOM@msn.com>
Terry,
Sounds great. I have not started building yet, but now how the motor,
the tail group wood, and the wood for the ribs. Take it easy, good luck, now
to get off my backside................
Doug Blackburn
Douglas Harley/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
Inland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It won't be long now
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
>
> Dear Piet group,
> This weekend was a MAJOR step toward Low and slow flying for me. My
> father-in-law and I just became the very excited owners of a new Pietenpol
Air Camper
> project. I say "new" because it has never flown. However, this airplane
> project was started way back in 1966 by a Mr. William Hewgley and G.C.
Waterman in
> San Antonio TX. We bought it from Mr. Hewgley's son Richard here in the
Waco
> TX area. This airplane is meticulously built, but not quite complete.
Wings
> have been covered with ceconite thru penetration coat in 1982 and hangared
> since. Tail surfaces built and covered in early 70s with irish linen need
> recover. Fuselage is on gear with center section, controls, and 2 fuel
tanks (ctr
> section and nose) with no fabric. Evidently the airplane has been
assembled at
> one time with all the controls hooked up. Then disassembled and stored.
> Items lacking are the engine, mount, cowling. instruments, fuel plumbing,
> windshield, brakes, fuselage fabric and tail fabric. The project came
with a
> disassembled model A engine, but I have a 75hp continental I've been
saving for
> the Piet for years. Need to go thru mags and carburetor. We've already
> started going thru the entire airplane but finding few items to rework.
Fuel tanks
> are not quite complete need to install fittings and add a sump section to
the
> forward tank.
> We just trailered it home this afternoon and spent the entire evening
> tinkering. My 2 sons (ages 11 and 8) tore off the old rotten irish linen
fabric off
> the tail surfaces to find the wood to be like new....beautiful.
> This is a HUGE leap forward for me. I have been wishing for time to build
my
> Piet for over 13 years. Basically spent all those years averaging about a
> rib per year. At that pace would never be airborn. So I am tickled to
death
> now. I became convinced that this project was worthwhile when I slid one
of my
> ribs right up next to a center section rib to find them so close just as
if
> they were built in the same jig.
> SO...anyway.....we are way PUMPED and plan to be airborne ASAP, estimate 6
> months best case....1 year tops. I'll send pics soon. And we may have a
model
> A engine up for sale soon too...just need to see what we have here.
> Cheers...
> Terry Bowden
> ph (254) 715-4773
> fax (254) 853-3805
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter<baileys@ktis.net>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob,
The darn'd airplane has so much drag, it won't go fast enough to flutter!
John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
I researched for a month on the subject of brazing 4130 and found nothing
in writing that stated it shouldn't or couldn't be done. I finally broke
down and ordered the welding book that I was told it was in. I don't have
the book with me here at work but there is one sentence in it that states
that it can split the grain of the 4130 as it cools. Seems to be one mans
theory and there are no structural parts in a Piet that call for brazing
anyway. My guess is there are lots of Piets out there that have been flying
safely for years with brazed 4130 parts in them. I'll get the name and
author of the book this evening unless someone beats me to it. I think the
guys name is Ron Merchado or something like that. I made up some brazed 4130
test pieces and was satisfied that they are as strong as any other brazes
that I have done in the past 35 years. Maybe if the metal is heated more
than necessary the brazing would have a different affect on the metal but
that's not the way I braze so I didn't try it. Ed G.
>From: Carbarvo@aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead impressions from a newbie
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:05:19 EDT
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
>
>Can anyone cite chapter and verse about why there are recommendations
>against
>brazing 4130? I'm not questioning the truth of it, I'm just trying to cure
>my
>ignorance. This is the second time I've heard this. After the first time, I
>went to the best professional welder I know and he couldn't provide any
>background.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike <bike.mike@verizon.net>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
At Piet speeds, something has to be broken for flutter to be a problem.
Something like a broken hinge or torn fabric might get you "aflutter," but
you would have other problems then.
I've never heard of an airworthy Piet having the classic "divergent
aero-elastic control surface oscillation" that can affect other, faster,
airplanes.
Mike Hardaway
Message 6
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| Subject: | Piet Project on e-bay........... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=2426688417#ebayphotohosting
Kinda of a great jump-starter plane here it looks like. (I don't know
the builder or anything more than is in this auction above.)
Mike C.
(do not archive)
Message 7
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
Bob B.,
Were in MO. do you live? I'm in Lathrop, about 40 miles NE of KC.
Got two engines "A's" coming and fixing to cut up a 2"x9"x14' Spruce
board for fuselage parts and whatever else I can get out of it.
Do not archive.
Al Latham
Lathrop, MO.
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | late Congratulations to Bob S. in Texas |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Way to go Bob in Texas with your NEW Pietenpol. It can be done and you
proved it. Inspires old and new builders, for sure. Looking for Carl
Loar to be the next big announcement on the list. Hope so, Carl.
Enjoyed the group at Brodhead this year. Finally made it back there and
was pleased to meet many of the guys from the list. Jim in Plano is a
riot. Absolute riot. Chuck Gantzer from KS makes Waldo Pepper look
like a local flier. Chuck, how was Oshkosh or are you still there
?? Larry Williams---how was your first attempt at going into the big show
at Oshkosh ? Larry built a beauty of a Ford Piet guys. He's got a cool
tent too:) Jim Kinsella has a pretty Piet too and it's got some
power. Jim--did you use your gps all the way home in that haze like I did
? Thank God for gps. I love that thing too much. Gotta hear the 'rest
of the stories'. Finally we had a good turn out of planes. Super.
Mike C.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratril" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Chuck Yeager had the same problem approaching Mach 1. What kind of engine
is that again?
Dick
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | looking for parts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Looking for the following serviceable parts for the Piet project.
-Tachometer and cable for A65 Continental.
-Compass (panel mount)
-Slip indicator, 2 ea.
-Airspeed Indicator with markings below 30 mph
-Oil Temp and Oil pressure gauges.
-Oil pressure/temp senders
-mag switch.
-Altimeter
-gascolator
-Fwd prop hub plate for 6-bolt A65 Cont. (for wood prop)
-fuel site gauge for upper wing tank
-Cont. A65 air box/carb heat mixer
-Cont A65 exhaust parts
-fuel primer
-4 X 8.00 tubes/Tires/mechanical or expander tube Brake parts (J3 cub)
-cover plates for fabric wing inspection holes
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 11
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| Subject: | Bob Seibert's Piet |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers@winternals.com>
Pieters
In case you haven't seen the photos of Bob's Piet on the photoshare
page, let me tell you it's one gorgeous plane and an inspiration to
those of us still building.
I drove up to Bob's airfield south of Taylor Texas yesterday, met Bob
and his lovely wife, and finally got to sit in an honest-to-god
Pietenpol. Bob went for a vintage look, with a machine-turned cowl and
bare wood fuselage, and it turned out beautiful and very light. He says
that on the first flight it left the high-performance chase plane (a
Heath Parasol) in the dust. He's got an A-65 with a metal prop,
stretched fuselage, single-piece wing, and non-steering tailwheel, just
like I'm planning to do.
For me, the good news is that my legs fit in just fine. That's a relief
because I'm 6'2". The bad news is, the windshield comes up to my chin,
so I'm going to have to build up the turtledeck a bit higher on my Piet.
Thanks Bob for all your time and advice. I learned more in a couple of
hours yesterday than I could studying the plans for a year.
Ken Chambers, newly inspired and working on the tail wheel mount and
seats in Austin, Texas
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead impressions from a newbie |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
You're just the guy I was lookin' for...THAT is what I call a complete
answer.....Thank you very much. I feel satisfied....Carl
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: It won't be long now |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
I think you're a very lucky person...I, too, found a meticulously built
Aircamper project which I am in the process of finishing up. I am in my eighth
month of that effort. When you realize how many hours of craftsmanship you've
bought for a few dollars, it's awsome. I guess my biggest surprise was the
turnbuckles. I gave up trying to find "proper" turnbuckles on the surplus or used
market, so i bought them from A/C Spruce for over $400.00!!!!...Carl Vought
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Vydra <jvydra@sbcglobal.net>
Just posted complete year of Sport Aviation 1970 on ebay.
Message 15
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| Subject: | newbie type question - flutter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
It's hard to flutter when you can't outrun a butterfly
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys
Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: looking for parts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Terry et al -
There's a guy who pulls up his motorhome behind the commercial hangars at
the Sun 'n Fun and sells refurbished instruments every year. I bought a
tach for the Cub from him a number of years back. His name is Wayne Jordan,
out of Johnson City,NY . His phone number, from an old business card I
found, is (607) 797-9184.
I don't know if his stuff is all yellow-tagged or not, but it can't hurt to
give him a call.
Jim Ash
At 8/4/2003 02:27 PM -0400, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
>
>Looking for the following serviceable parts for the Piet project.
...
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1@bellsouth.net>
Fellow Piete builder and flyers,
We had a chapter member experience flutter at 80 MPH in his Kit Fox and he
lost his flaparons (sp.) He safely landed the aircraft with only rudder and
elevator and a passenger aboard. Just because we will not be able to fly
fast does not exclude any of us from the possibility of flutter.
Just my opinion.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> It's hard to flutter when you can't outrun a butterfly
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:53 AM
> To: Pietenpol@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>
> There doesn't seem to be any type of balance to the Piet's aileron system.
> Has anyone ever heard of or experienced problems with flutter?
> Thanks,
> Bob B. - Missouri
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: It won't be long now |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1@bellsouth.net>
Congratulations Terry. Take it one job at a time and before you know it,
you will have an airplane.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It won't be long now
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
>
> Dear Piet group,
> This weekend was a MAJOR step toward Low and slow flying for me. My
> father-in-law and I just became the very excited owners of a new Pietenpol
Air Camper
> project. I say "new" because it has never flown. However, this airplane
> project was started way back in 1966 by a Mr. William Hewgley and G.C.
Waterman in
> San Antonio TX. We bought it from Mr. Hewgley's son Richard here in the
Waco
> TX area. This airplane is meticulously built, but not quite complete.
Wings
> have been covered with ceconite thru penetration coat in 1982 and hangared
> since. Tail surfaces built and covered in early 70s with irish linen need
> recover. Fuselage is on gear with center section, controls, and 2 fuel
tanks (ctr
> section and nose) with no fabric. Evidently the airplane has been
assembled at
> one time with all the controls hooked up. Then disassembled and stored.
> Items lacking are the engine, mount, cowling. instruments, fuel plumbing,
> windshield, brakes, fuselage fabric and tail fabric. The project came
with a
> disassembled model A engine, but I have a 75hp continental I've been
saving for
> the Piet for years. Need to go thru mags and carburetor. We've already
> started going thru the entire airplane but finding few items to rework.
Fuel tanks
> are not quite complete need to install fittings and add a sump section to
the
> forward tank.
> We just trailered it home this afternoon and spent the entire evening
> tinkering. My 2 sons (ages 11 and 8) tore off the old rotten irish linen
fabric off
> the tail surfaces to find the wood to be like new....beautiful.
> This is a HUGE leap forward for me. I have been wishing for time to build
my
> Piet for over 13 years. Basically spent all those years averaging about a
> rib per year. At that pace would never be airborn. So I am tickled to
death
> now. I became convinced that this project was worthwhile when I slid one
of my
> ribs right up next to a center section rib to find them so close just as
if
> they were built in the same jig.
> SO...anyway.....we are way PUMPED and plan to be airborne ASAP, estimate 6
> months best case....1 year tops. I'll send pics soon. And we may have a
model
> A engine up for sale soon too...just need to see what we have here.
> Cheers...
> Terry Bowden
> ph (254) 715-4773
> fax (254) 853-3805
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: newbie type question - flutter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Something had to be broken.
The original question was about the lack of control balances on the Piet.
There are none because, if the airplane is intact, and it is being flown at
the airspeeds it can attain on this planet, flutter is not a problem. If
something breaks, such as a control hinge, or a piece of fabric rips, of
course flutter can occur.
I doubt very much that your fellow chapter member experienced divergent
flutter at 80 mph in a Kit Fox that was at that moment fully airworthy.
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1@bellsouth.net>
>
> Fellow Piete builder and flyers,
> We had a chapter member experience flutter at 80 MPH in his Kit Fox and he
> lost his flaparons (sp.) He safely landed the aircraft with only rudder and
> elevator and a passenger aboard. Just because we will not be able to fly
> fast does not exclude any of us from the possibility of flutter.
> Just my opinion.
> Alex Sloan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: newbie type question - flutter
>
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