---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/13/03: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:17 AM - Re: Basic Skills (john e fay) 2. 08:10 AM - Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series (Michael D Cuy) 3. 10:38 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 08/12/03 (ANNCARLEK@aol.com) 4. 10:43 AM - Re: Basic Skills (Al Latham) 5. 12:56 PM - Re: Basic Skills (Gary M. Colwill) 6. 01:20 PM - Re: Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series (w b evans) 7. 01:20 PM - Re: Basic Skills (Deon Engelmann) 8. 01:26 PM - Re: Basic Skills (w b evans) 9. 03:05 PM - Re: Flying Stories - Tail skids & hard surface (javier cruz) 10. 07:42 PM - Re: Basic Skills (Christian Bobka) 11. 09:09 PM - long-time auditor (Arden Adamson) 12. 09:19 PM - More Flying Stories !! (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills From: john e fay --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: john e fay On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:44:09 -0700 "Gary M. Colwill" writes: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" > > The EAA website has for sale several books that might help me, like: > > Techniques of Aircraft Building > Wood Aircraft Building Techniques > Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook > > Can anyone recommend or comment on these books or suggest > alternatives? > > Thanks, > Gary C. > Chino, CA Gary, I have the Wood Air. Buil. Tech. book and recommend it. I am not familiar with the other two. But most of all, you need the books by Tony Bingelis, especially Voumes I and II. His third book, Firewall Forward, I have, but haven't used at all yet, so I really can't coment on it. John Fay in Peoria P.S. I received a great honor at OSH this year. A friend and I were walking down one of the lanes in the FlyMarket when a younger man approached from the other direction. He slowed and looked at me, then he said tentatively, "Doc?" I replied, "Mosher?" He brightened and said "Yes." I had to disappoint him and tell him that, no, I was not Doc Mosher. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:00 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Gary---though the group has heard me say it a hundred times, I say that the book series by Tony Bingelis was my #1 source for getting questions answered during the building process--- here's where you can order them if you choose to: http://shop.eaa.org/html/02books_bingelis.html Mike C. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:31 AM PST US From: ANNCARLEK@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 08/12/03 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ANNCARLEK@aol.com In a message dated 8/12/03 11:57:05 PM, pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com writes: << From: "Gary M. Colwill" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills >> Gary- I certainly recommend building a model first. You can use the plans as is for the fuse and this will be enlightening! But the tail and wings are to a different scale. I did this, and I think that I saved many hours of correcting mistakes or misunderstandings. We're having an Open House here at the Compton Airport this Sat.(the 16th). My partial Piet will be on display, as well as a totally disassembled Corvair motor. And I'll have my model there too! You can inspect my approach - I'm using vertical grain douglas fir and basswood plywood, and would still recommend this. Carl L @ Compton Airport (CA) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:00 AM PST US From: "Al Latham" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" Boy that has to be some download... Do not archive. Al Latham ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" > > Gary, > > AC 43.13 is available in pdf format at http://www.saaa.com. Just click on > downloads. > > Have fun > > Peter > Wonthaggi, Australia > Http://cpc-world.cable.nu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > BARNSTMR@aol.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > Gary, > I recommend that you go hunting on the FAA.gov website and download a copy > of > advisory circular AC 43.13-1B. Its the best reference for acceptable > methods, techniques, and practices for aircraft quality repairs and > construction. > This is the main guidance material for A&P technicians in aviation. Its a > good > place to start and it is FREE to download. > But then the main thing is to just dive in and start making parts. There's > no substitute for hands on experience...the best way to learn the basic > skills. > > Terry Bowden > ph (254) 715-4773 > fax (254) 853-3805 > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > Share: Share photos & files with other List members. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:14 PM PST US From: "Gary M. Colwill" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" Yep - 16 separate zip files, and all the way from Australia, too (thanks, Peter Johnson - I bookmarked your website, by the way - great backgound image and pics). Also thanks to those that suggested the Tony Bingelis books - I've got them on order. Carl L - A trip to the Compton Airport is now on my schedule for Saturday - hope to see you there. Thanks all! Gary C Chino, CA Al Latham wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" > >Boy that has to be some download... > >Do not archive. > >Al Latham >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter W Johnson" >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills > > > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" >> >>Gary, >> >>AC 43.13 is available in pdf format at http://www.saaa.com. Just click on >>downloads. >> >>Have fun >> >>Peter >>Wonthaggi, Australia >>Http://cpc-world.cable.nu >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>BARNSTMR@aol.com >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills >> >> >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com >> >>Gary, >>I recommend that you go hunting on the FAA.gov website and download a copy >>of >>advisory circular AC 43.13-1B. Its the best reference for acceptable >>methods, techniques, and practices for aircraft quality repairs and >>construction. >>This is the main guidance material for A&P technicians in aviation. Its a >>good >>place to start and it is FREE to download. >>But then the main thing is to just dive in and start making parts. >> >> >There's > > >>no substitute for hands on experience...the best way to learn the basic >>skills. >> >>Terry Bowden >>ph (254) 715-4773 >>fax (254) 853-3805 >> >> >>advertising on the Matronics Forums. >>Share: Share photos & files with other List members. >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:00 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Gary, I second that motion!!! The books are for someone who never heard of the building concepts before, but correct, so that he makes the complicated very understandable. He always gives different options as well. These books are tops on my building list walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills--Tony Bingelis Book Series > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Gary---though the group has heard me say it a hundred times, I say that the > book series by Tony Bingelis was my #1 source for getting questions > answered during the building process--- here's where you can order them if > you choose to: http://shop.eaa.org/html/02books_bingelis.html > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:22 PM PST US From: "Deon Engelmann" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Deon Engelmann" Hi Gary "AC 43.13-1B" has been replaced by "AC 43.13-1B CHG 1" and can be downloaded on a per chapter basis at: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCirc ular.nsf/ACNumber/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument I'm not quite sure what the change is but it always better to work from the latest AC. Deon Engelmann Pretoria South Africa > Gary, > I recommend that you go hunting on the FAA.gov website and download a copy > of > advisory circular AC 43.13-1B. Its the best reference for acceptable > methods, techniques, and practices for aircraft quality repairs and > construction. > This is the main guidance material for A&P technicians in aviation. Its a > good > place to start and it is FREE to download. > But then the main thing is to just dive in and start making parts. There's > no substitute for hands on experience...the best way to learn the basic > skills. > > Terry Bowden > ph (254) 715-4773 > fax (254) 853-3805 > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > Share: Share photos & files with other List members. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:52 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Gary, I think that's why most people start with building ribs. If it takes you till the 15th one to get it right, you can throw out the first 14 without costing alot of money. Or even rip the wood from scrap on a tablesaw and practice on that till you , or an experienced eye gives you the go-ahead. Guess what I'm trying to say is,,,don't start the project with the fuselage and it's alot of $$$$$ out the window. Start with the small stuff (even though it's just as important.) And the skills will come . walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary M. Colwill" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" > > Just got my plans yesterday and have spent every spare moment poring > over them. Of everything I've gleaned in the short time I've had the > plans, there is one one fact that seems to be the most important at the > moment - I need to develop some basic skills! > > The EAA website has for sale several books that might help me, like: > > Techniques of Aircraft Building > Wood Aircraft Building Techniques > Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook > > Can anyone recommend or comment on these books or suggest alternatives? > > Thanks, > > Gary C. > Chino, CA > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:14 PM PST US From: javier cruz Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Stories - Tail skids & hard surface --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: javier cruz Hi friends I don't have to much experience on conventional planes, less on fly Piets, but any time that i have to fly a PA18, with a little crosswind, the landing roll was very critical for me, i try to maintein the center line of the runway with rudder and brakes, but the plane was going from side to side, i was very lucky, when change to try to control with ailerons all was too much better, Javier Cruz Do not archive __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:57 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" That was cruel do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "john e fay" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Basic Skills > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: john e fay > > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:44:09 -0700 "Gary M. Colwill" > writes: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" > > > > The EAA website has for sale several books that might help me, like: > > > > Techniques of Aircraft Building > > Wood Aircraft Building Techniques > > Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook > > > > Can anyone recommend or comment on these books or suggest > > alternatives? > > > > Thanks, > > Gary C. > > Chino, CA > > > Gary, > > I have the Wood Air. Buil. Tech. book and recommend it. I am not > familiar with the other two. But most of all, you need the books by Tony > Bingelis, especially Voumes I and II. His third book, Firewall Forward, > I have, but haven't used at all yet, so I really can't coment on it. > > John Fay in Peoria > > P.S. > > I received a great honor at OSH this year. A friend and I were walking > down one of the lanes in the FlyMarket when a younger man approached from > the other direction. He slowed and looked at me, then he said > tentatively, "Doc?" I replied, "Mosher?" He brightened and said "Yes." > I had to disappoint him and tell him that, no, I was not Doc Mosher. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: long-time auditor From: "Arden Adamson" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Arden Adamson" Greetings gentlemen, I've been following your discussions on the Pietenpol email forum for well over a year now. Thought it's about time I join in. I've enjoyed all your great discussions. Didn't make it to Brodhead this year. Wish I could have been there and met all of you who made it. Wife and I had to be at a national conference in Washington DC that same time. Next year hopefully. Last Fall I started building my Piet. Had plans from Don Pietenpol since 1990. All wing ribs are now done and the long fuselage is together but needs fairings and "innerds". Today I began to lay out the horizontal stabilizer. I will use the Corvair and have three engines waiting. Some day I hope to join those of you who fly these fascinating machines. Have a great day, Arden Adamson Waupaca, WI ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:47 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: More Flying Stories !! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Each and every flight in a Pietenpol is an adventure in itself, be it local or cross country. I can relate to Bob's fictional train story. The last train I spotted, I climbed to attack altitude of 800' AGL, pull power and rolled in for a fictional strafing run, entering a high speed 75 mph dive, and squeezed off a burst from my pretend Vickers machine gun on the front three cars and engine. Pulling up, over 500 feet from the engine, I was hoping he was a lousy shot. I felt like Europe, 1918 !! Bank back and forth in front of the engine, then flew parallel for a while, gave 'em a salute, and peeled off. Too Cool !! Hey, here is the way I estimate my ground speed. When flying IFR (I follow Roads), it's very challenging to keep the shadow of my plane on the road, just in front of a car or truck, especially in the heat of the day when thermals beat me around. I can now see how the speed of traffic relates to my shadow. The speed limit of the turnpike is 70 mph, and most traffic slowly gains on me. Assuming most vehicles travel 75 mph, this puts my cruise speed right around 70 mph !! Who needs stop watches or GPS !! On most local flights, I keep two rolls of Toilet Paper onboard, one on each side of my hips. Ya know you can buy a pack of 20 rolls for about $4 bucks at Wal Mart. I can usually flush someone out of the house of one my friends, by doing a low pass (over 500') flying overhead at full power, and letting the exhaust note knock on the door. When I see them come out, I give 'em a wing wag, and climb to T.P. bomb drop altitude of over 1000' AGL, and trying to correct for wind speed and direction, I let go with a rolling action of my wrist and arm, so the whole roll unravels. Slight roll left to keep an eye on the unrolled paper, it really gives me a feel for how fast I'm actually traveling...it gets small really fast!! The thing is so light, and falls so slow, that any slight breeze blows it way off target. Once in a while I get it to land within 1/4 mile. On several occasions, I'll climb to the highest altitude I've ever been to - around 3000' AGL, and let one go, and circle back around and see if I can cut it...very difficult to do. I haven't got a cut yet, but it sure is a Hoot to try !! Chuck G. More flying stories to come !!