Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 08/26/03


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:32 AM - Re: Three piece and one piece wings are differen?? (dpilot)
     2. 04:27 AM - Re: Sunday outing (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
     3. 05:21 AM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Cy Galley)
     4. 06:13 AM - Re: You don't have a WHAT ? (TomTravis@aol.com)
     5. 07:05 AM - lift distribution chart was three piece.... (baileys)
     6. 07:35 AM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Carbarvo@aol.com)
     7. 08:45 AM - two crashes at MERFI, Marion Ohio (Michael D Cuy)
     8. 10:16 AM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Gary Gower)
     9. 01:49 PM - Clif and Jim's Visit . . . (Prange Larry J CONT PSNS)
    10. 03:48 PM - Re: lift distribution chart was three piece.... (Kip & Beth Gardner)
    11. 05:19 PM - Re: Pietenpol wings (Hubbard, Eugene)
    12. 08:38 PM - Re: an aquaintance of mine goes down in his Cessna 140 - sad ... (Dmott9@aol.com)
    13. 09:18 PM - Re: You don't have a WHAT ? (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    14. 09:19 PM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    15. 09:53 PM - Re: Pietenpol wings (Graham Hansen)
    16. 10:05 PM - Pictures posted (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    17. 10:56 PM - Re: You don't have a WHAT ? (Gary Gower)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:32:03 AM PST US
    From: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Three piece and one piece wings are differen??
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com> Why not ask Vi Kappler next year at Brodhead? JimV. clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif How much do the attachment straps weigh? I don't have mine yet but I would think 5-8 oz? There are 16 of them. There are 28 assorted nuts and bolts and 2 pulleys. Two small straps for those pulleys and two extra ribs. There's possibly a little more ply in the center section. What else? We're missing the two very long bolts, front and rear, holding the center of each one piece spar together. The center pulleys and their mounts are extra in the wing as they were originaly at the strut/fuse point, not in the wing. Anybody got a collection of these parts to weigh? ----- Original Message ----- From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Three piece and one piece wings are differen?? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" > > Consider this. I built right to the plans, with very little variations. > Long fuselage with an A-65, and the three piece wing. also a wing tank and > a nose tank, and my empty weight was 595#. Would a one piece wing weigh in > at 565# ? > walt evans > NX140DL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Three piece and one piece wings are differen?? > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > > > Yes, I realize that you are talking "difference". That's what puzzles me. > > Thank you for expanding on your memo. The laminated spars are very > interesting > > and will become even more interesting as time goes on and spruce prices go > up. > > Were your laminations one piece from end to end or were you able to splice > > them?...Carl V. > > > > > > ---------------------------------


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:27:30 AM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Sunday outing
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com In a message dated 8/26/2003 1:56:39 AM Central Daylight Time, cdawson5854@shaw.ca writes: > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=140 ************************************************************** I was just admiring the photos of Larry Prange's Piet. What a beautiful job Larry! I have a question about thosae struts. Are those streamline aluminum with steel tube inside for reinforcement? Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:21:19 AM PST US
    From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org> Call Sue Lurvey. She can provide reprints of the articles. 1-800-eaa-info and ask for the library. The very pleasant voice will be Sue. You can also e-mail her at slurvey@eaa.org Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/25/03 7:10:11 PM Central Daylight Time, Carbarvo@aol.com > writes: > > << LATER......Chuck: I got some very capable help from Susan at the EAA > library..She was able to look up the story about the guy from Alabama who > flew around > the United States...Here's the data... > See EXPERIMENTER (Part 1) , May 1995, p 22 > ditto (Part 2) June, 1995, p 27 > ditto (Part 3) July, 1995, p 43 > ditto (Part 4) Aug., 1995, p 43 > He is John Hauck from Gantt, Alabama. He's got quite a story!...Carl Vought > >> > > Carl, or anyone, > Is there any way I can view these articles on the internet ? Or, should I > just try to order each of these magazines from EAA? > Also, does anyone know what was the longest cross country flight in a > Pietenpol ? I'm feeling the need to get in the record books !! > > Chuck G. > I appreciate your effort, Carl > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:13:58 AM PST US
    From: TomTravis@aol.com
    Subject: Re: You don't have a WHAT ?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TomTravis@aol.com If I can get mine finished in time, deal me in. When do we leave? Tom Travis


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:05:09 AM PST US
    From: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
    Subject: lift distribution chart was three piece....
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net> Clif, That chart is very interesting. I wonder if anybody has ever run a comparison plot of the same wing with the Hoerner tip? Also how does the Piet wingtip stack up against other tips??? Thanks, Bob B. - Missouri > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> > > Here's a plot of the lift distribution of > a hershey wing I came across. It might > help in clarifying what Mike is saying. > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=IMG_0592.jpg&PhotoID=1397 >


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:35:16 AM PST US
    From: Carbarvo@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com As you already know, Sport Aviation is available on CD. Eventually, Experimenter will also, but not right now. Reprints are expensive..Tell ya what...I'll Xerox the first installment and mail it to you (I don't think my scanner is up to it, so an email attachment is out). From the first part, you should be able to tell if you want to plunk down for the rest of them....Let me know if you want to proceed that way. Carl Vought


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:45:01 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: two crashes at MERFI, Marion Ohio
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Group--- We had three Pietenpols show up at the Mideastern Regional Fly-In this past weekend at Marion, Ohio. Wilbur Graff, Frank Pavliga, and myself had our Piets there. While we were there enjoying the show, a 180 Cessna taildragger folded up one of his gear legs on landing and a Hiperbipe departing the show trailed some smoke from his engine on climb out, gradually lost power and tore his landing gear off in a soybean field just over the airport boundary road. Nobody was hurt in either of these accidents. Whew. Otherwise, the show and weather were very enjoyable. do not archive Mike C.


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:16:21 AM PST US
    From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> You can order a reprint (xerox copy) of each article to the EAA. Saludos Gary Gower. --- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/25/03 7:10:11 PM Central Daylight Time, > Carbarvo@aol.com > writes: > > << LATER......Chuck: I got some very capable help from Susan at the > EAA > library..She was able to look up the story about the guy from > Alabama who > flew around > the United States...Here's the data... > See EXPERIMENTER (Part 1) , May 1995, p 22 > ditto (Part 2) June, 1995, p 27 > ditto (Part 3) July, 1995, p 43 > ditto (Part 4) Aug., 1995, p 43 > He is John Hauck from Gantt, Alabama. He's got quite a story!...Carl > Vought > >> > > Carl, or anyone, > Is there any way I can view these articles on the internet ? Or, > should I > just try to order each of these magazines from EAA? > Also, does anyone know what was the longest cross country flight in a > > Pietenpol ? I'm feeling the need to get in the record books !! > > Chuck G. > I appreciate your effort, Carl > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:49:29 PM PST US
    From: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil>
    Subject: Clif and Jim's Visit . . .
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil> Last Sunday, Clif Dawson and Jim Markle stopped by my hangar to look at my Piet. Much thanks to Clif for posting some pictures that he took and for his kind words about my ship. ( http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=140 ) And, thanks to Jim for buying lunch! I've gotta say that both Jim and Clif are a credit to our Piet community. It was great to finally meet them both after reading their thoughts for years. I have been lurking on this list since its' inception, but not saying much. Maybe I should be more vocal . . . I would like to take this opportunity to thank to all of you who have, over the years, patiently (and sometimes passionately) answered questions and discussed the relative merits and pratfalls of different Piet-things. A lot of what you all have suggested/proposed/discussed, has ended up in my Piet. The things that you write on this list make building easier and the final product better for folks that you don't even know. My Piet would be a lot different now if I did not have your vast array of Piet-Lore at my finger tips. I owe you all a debt. ( That and 25 cents won't even buy you a cup of coffee anymore. ;o} ) Is this a great list or what? Larry Prange - Live from the Olympic Pennisula, Washington State. (Just another day in Paradise . . . )


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:48:16 PM PST US
    From: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: lift distribution chart was three piece....
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net> At 10:04 AM -0400 08/26/03, baileys wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net> > >Clif, >That chart is very interesting. I wonder if anybody has ever run a >comparison plot of the same wing with the Hoerner tip? >Also how does the Piet wingtip stack up against other tips??? >Thanks, >Bob B. - Missouri Hi Bob, OK, I'm ignorant, what is/was the Hoerner wing tip? As far as any of us on the list know (I'm going back about 4 years), there has never been any really serious aerodynamic testing of the Piet, so 'hard' data about things like different wing tip performance probably doesn't exist (I say while lifting my foot towards my mouth). For a while I was employed at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, VA, the place where they are doing the wind-tunnel testing of the EAA's 1903 Wright Flyer replica. I was acquainted with some of the guys involved & at that time there was some talk about trying to interest them in putting a Piet (or 2) into the wind tunnel. However, we (the list) never got our act together & then I moved to OH. Maybe someday. BTW, I got the CD of Brodhead pics you sent - very nice - thanks ! With all this talk of a group 'lap around America' I wish I had the next year free to work on my Piet full-time! Guess I'll just have to settle for being Tail-End Charlie some day! Cheers, Kip Gardner North Canton, OH


    Message 11


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    Time: 05:19:35 PM PST US
    From: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
    Subject: Pietenpol wings
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com> Hi Vic, I'll tell you how I did mine--YMMV, as they say. I'm not familiar with Vi Kappler's wing plans, so I can't speak to that one. I used 1" material for my spars and routed it. I don't feel like I had a particularly good reason to do it that way, but I liked the idea of having a one-piece machined wood spar. Also, it puts the material at the top and bottom where it does good and leaves a thinner (1/2") web where it doesn't. I considered, and priced, the I-beam option. It would have been just as good, use less wood, and lots more epoxy. I built the ribs with only a single upright next to each rib. It saves an insignificant amount of weight, and doesn't affect the rib integrity at all. It also makes it impossible to have problems fitting the ribs onto the spar. When I glued up the wing, I used spring clamps to hold the ribs to the spars as the glue hardened. I made the ribs first--much cheaper, and it gives you a chance to look at the kind of wood that your supplier delivers. I wound up buying my wood from Wick's because of that experiment. I gussetted my compression struts to everything in sight. I didn't trust the butt joint as far as I could throw it, and I could imagine enough flexure in the wing to pop the strut off and leave it lying on the bottom surface of the wing. You can make the top strut flush with the top of the spar and put a plywood gusset over both of them. The bottom strut has to be above the bottom of the spar due to the undercamber, but I made up a trapazoidal filler block, and gusseted it to the bottom of the spar. Gene Hubbard San Diego -----Original Message----- From: Victorjeanharper@aol.com [mailto:Victorjeanharper@aol.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol wings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Victorjeanharper@aol.com Hello, I'm getting ready to start building, I thought I'd do the wings first. I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind. I have Don Pietenpols plans, are Vi Kapplers better? How did you make your spars, routed plank, I-beam etc. Should you build the spars first to get the width dimension of the caps so the ribs can be build to that size? .When you glue the compression struts to the spars did you add any triangle gussets. Thanks for any help!! Vic Harper


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:38:15 PM PST US
    From: Dmott9@aol.com
    Subject: Re: an aquaintance of mine goes down in his Cessna 140
    - sad ... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dmott9@aol.com In a message dated 8/25/03 6:55:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aircamper@imagedv.com writes: > It just goes to show you how quickly things can change. I know alot of us > like to fly "low and slow" but I really hope that we can learn from stuff > like this.. flying low over populated areas or areas unknown to us poses a > serious risk. > > Let's all think twice before we "get down" for those low passes. > My flying instructor always told me he better not hear about me flying lower than 800' for any reason other than to take off and land. Way too many low level flyby accidents I've heard of and seen the remains of. Bridges, power lines, and all are nothing to fool around with.


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:18:43 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: You don't have a WHAT ?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 8/26/03 8:14:47 AM Central Daylight Time, TomTravis@aol.com writes: << If I can get mine finished in time, deal me in. When do we leave? Tom Travis >> A preliminary date, would be next summer. Kinda general, right now. Around Brodhead, for sure. We could hook up with folks in various places around the country that can't make the whole oddisy, and maybe they could fly a leg, or so. Chuck G.


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:19:39 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 8/26/03 9:35:50 AM Central Daylight Time, Carbarvo@aol.com writes: << Tell ya what...I'll Xerox the first installment and mail it to you >> Carl, Before you go to that hassle, let me talk with Sue Lurvey at the EAA library, first. Cy Galley's suggestion. A big Thank You, to Cy, for his help at Oshkosh !! He's one of the guys that volunteers his time and expertise, at Emergency Aircraft Repair. Folks like him are credited with what makes our 'World of Aviation' go 'round & 'round. Ain't nobody in the world, like 'Airplane People' !!! Chuck


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:53:10 PM PST US
    From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol wings
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net> Eugene, Like you, I used the I-beam spar section. But I laminated my spars from very fine grade Douglas Fir and installed swallow tail filler blocks at the fitting attachment points. This was back in 1968-69 and Aerolite glue was then in favour. On my most recent annual inspection, I found absolutely no sign of glue line separation anywhere, although excess Aerolite fillets that were squeezed out during clamping tend to crack and craze. If I were to build another wooden airplane, I would use something like T 88. I, too, was leery about those compression struts simply butting up against the spar with nothing to hold them in place except the compressive force generated by the drag/antidrag wires. I gusseted everything, as you did, and tied the upper and lower struts together with 1/8" x 1 1/4" plywood strips near both front and rear spars. (I had read an account of the com- pression strut on a British SE 5 coming adrift during its testing program. The wing folded and the test pilot was killed. The fix was to secure the compression strut attachment and the SE 5 became a stout aircraft which was about the best available to withstand the rigors of skywriting in the years following WW I.) My Pietenpol has been flying for nearly 33 years and has given good ser- vice. It is a good design and a few easy, but important, changes can en- hance its durability and safety. I heartily agree with your changes. Cheers, Graham Hansen (CF-AUN, in cooler Alberta, Canada) .


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:05:42 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Pictures posted
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Pieters, I just posted 10 pictures and have many more to come of our Piet project. Check it out. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:56:15 PM PST US
    From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: You don't have a WHAT ?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> --- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/26/03 8:14:47 AM Central Daylight Time, > TomTravis@aol.com writes: > > << If I can get mine finished in time, deal me in. When do we leave? > > > > > Tom Travis >> > > A preliminary date, would be next summer. Kinda general, right now. > Around > Brodhead, for sure. We could hook up with folks in various places > around the > country that can't make the whole oddisy, and maybe they could fly a > leg, or > so. > > Chuck G. That is a great idea, I will tell you what has worked here in long trips with several planes (and diferent speeds): There has to be a Leader (or two). They organize the flyinn "thinking for them selves" if anybody joins, has two options: follow the leader or go by itself. Trying to organize a flight (with several legs) that will work with everyone will never get right, if ever gets done. Hope this helps, and I am sorry that I cant make it, maybe only directly from Texas to Broadhead and Oshkosh... Saludos Gary Gower. __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




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