Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:32 AM - Re: Three piece and one piece wings are differen?? (dpilot)
2. 04:27 AM - Re: Sunday outing (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Cy Galley)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: You don't have a WHAT ? (TomTravis@aol.com)
5. 07:05 AM - lift distribution chart was three piece.... (baileys)
6. 07:35 AM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Carbarvo@aol.com)
7. 08:45 AM - two crashes at MERFI, Marion Ohio (Michael D Cuy)
8. 10:16 AM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Gary Gower)
9. 01:49 PM - Clif and Jim's Visit . . . (Prange Larry J CONT PSNS)
10. 03:48 PM - Re: lift distribution chart was three piece.... (Kip & Beth Gardner)
11. 05:19 PM - Re: Pietenpol wings (Hubbard, Eugene)
12. 08:38 PM - Re: an aquaintance of mine goes down in his Cessna 140 - sad ... (Dmott9@aol.com)
13. 09:18 PM - Re: You don't have a WHAT ? (Rcaprd@aol.com)
14. 09:19 PM - Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio (Rcaprd@aol.com)
15. 09:53 PM - Re: Pietenpol wings (Graham Hansen)
16. 10:05 PM - Pictures posted (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
17. 10:56 PM - Re: You don't have a WHAT ? (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Three piece and one piece wings are differen?? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
Why not ask Vi Kappler next year at Brodhead?
JimV.
clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif
How much do the attachment straps weigh?
I don't have mine yet but I would think
5-8 oz? There are 16 of them. There are
28 assorted nuts and bolts and 2 pulleys.
Two small straps for those pulleys and two
extra ribs. There's possibly a little more ply
in the center section. What else?
We're missing the two very long bolts, front
and rear, holding the center of each one piece
spar together. The center pulleys and their
mounts are extra in the wing as they were
originaly at the strut/fuse point, not in the wing.
Anybody got a collection of these parts to weigh?
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Three piece and one piece wings are differen??
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans"
>
> Consider this. I built right to the plans, with very little variations.
> Long fuselage with an A-65, and the three piece wing. also a wing tank
and
> a nose tank, and my empty weight was 595#. Would a one piece wing weigh
in
> at 565# ?
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Three piece and one piece wings are
differen??
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
> >
> > Yes, I realize that you are talking "difference". That's what puzzles
me.
> > Thank you for expanding on your memo. The laminated spars are very
> interesting
> > and will become even more interesting as time goes on and spruce prices
go
> up.
> > Were your laminations one piece from end to end or were you able to
splice
> > them?...Carl V.
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Sunday outing |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/2003 1:56:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
cdawson5854@shaw.ca writes:
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=140
**************************************************************
I was just admiring the photos of Larry Prange's Piet. What a beautiful job
Larry! I have a question about thosae struts. Are those streamline aluminum
with steel tube inside for reinforcement?
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Call Sue Lurvey. She can provide reprints of the articles. 1-800-eaa-info
and ask for the library. The very pleasant voice will be Sue.
You can also e-mail her at slurvey@eaa.org
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/25/03 7:10:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
Carbarvo@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << LATER......Chuck: I got some very capable help from Susan at the EAA
> library..She was able to look up the story about the guy from Alabama who
> flew around
> the United States...Here's the data...
> See EXPERIMENTER (Part 1) , May 1995, p 22
> ditto (Part 2) June, 1995, p 27
> ditto (Part 3) July, 1995, p 43
> ditto (Part 4) Aug., 1995, p 43
> He is John Hauck from Gantt, Alabama. He's got quite a story!...Carl
Vought
> >>
>
> Carl, or anyone,
> Is there any way I can view these articles on the internet ? Or, should I
> just try to order each of these magazines from EAA?
> Also, does anyone know what was the longest cross country flight in a
> Pietenpol ? I'm feeling the need to get in the record books !!
>
> Chuck G.
> I appreciate your effort, Carl
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: You don't have a WHAT ? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TomTravis@aol.com
If I can get mine finished in time, deal me in. When do we leave?
Tom Travis
Message 5
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Subject: | lift distribution chart was three piece.... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
Clif,
That chart is very interesting. I wonder if anybody has ever run a
comparison plot of the same wing with the Hoerner tip?
Also how does the Piet wingtip stack up against other tips???
Thanks,
Bob B. - Missouri
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: clif <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
>
> Here's a plot of the lift distribution of
> a hershey wing I came across. It might
> help in clarifying what Mike is saying.
>
>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=IMG_0592.jpg&PhotoID=1397
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
As you already know, Sport Aviation is available on CD. Eventually,
Experimenter will also, but not right now. Reprints are expensive..Tell ya what...I'll
Xerox the first installment and mail it to you (I don't think my scanner is up
to it, so an email attachment is out). From the first part, you should be
able to tell if you want to plunk down for the rest of them....Let me know if you
want to proceed that way. Carl Vought
Message 7
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Subject: | two crashes at MERFI, Marion Ohio |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Group--- We had three Pietenpols show up at the Mideastern Regional Fly-In
this past weekend at Marion, Ohio. Wilbur Graff, Frank Pavliga, and myself
had our Piets there. While we were there enjoying the show, a 180
Cessna taildragger folded up one of his gear legs on landing and a
Hiperbipe departing the show trailed some smoke from his engine on climb
out, gradually lost power and tore his landing gear off in a soybean field
just over the airport boundary road. Nobody was hurt in either of these
accidents. Whew. Otherwise, the show and weather were very enjoyable.
do not archive
Mike C.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
You can order a reprint (xerox copy) of each article to the EAA.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/25/03 7:10:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
> Carbarvo@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << LATER......Chuck: I got some very capable help from Susan at the
> EAA
> library..She was able to look up the story about the guy from
> Alabama who
> flew around
> the United States...Here's the data...
> See EXPERIMENTER (Part 1) , May 1995, p 22
> ditto (Part 2) June, 1995, p 27
> ditto (Part 3) July, 1995, p 43
> ditto (Part 4) Aug., 1995, p 43
> He is John Hauck from Gantt, Alabama. He's got quite a story!...Carl
> Vought
> >>
>
> Carl, or anyone,
> Is there any way I can view these articles on the internet ? Or,
> should I
> just try to order each of these magazines from EAA?
> Also, does anyone know what was the longest cross country flight in a
>
> Pietenpol ? I'm feeling the need to get in the record books !!
>
> Chuck G.
> I appreciate your effort, Carl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 9
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Subject: | Clif and Jim's Visit . . . |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil>
Last Sunday, Clif Dawson and Jim Markle stopped by my hangar to look at my
Piet. Much thanks to Clif for posting some pictures that he took and for
his kind words about my ship. (
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=140 ) And,
thanks to Jim for buying lunch! I've gotta say that both Jim and Clif are a
credit to our Piet community. It was great to finally meet them both after
reading their thoughts for years. I have been lurking on this list since
its' inception, but not saying much. Maybe I should be more vocal . . .
I would like to take this opportunity to thank to all of you who have, over
the years, patiently (and sometimes passionately) answered questions and
discussed the relative merits and pratfalls of different Piet-things. A lot
of what you all have suggested/proposed/discussed, has ended up in my Piet.
The things that you write on this list make building easier and the final
product better for folks that you don't even know. My Piet would be a lot
different now if I did not have your vast array of Piet-Lore at my finger
tips. I owe you all a debt. ( That and 25 cents won't even buy you a cup
of coffee anymore. ;o} )
Is this a great list or what?
Larry Prange - Live from the Olympic Pennisula, Washington State. (Just
another day in Paradise . . . )
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: lift distribution chart was three piece.... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
At 10:04 AM -0400 08/26/03, baileys wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
>
>Clif,
>That chart is very interesting. I wonder if anybody has ever run a
>comparison plot of the same wing with the Hoerner tip?
>Also how does the Piet wingtip stack up against other tips???
>Thanks,
>Bob B. - Missouri
Hi Bob,
OK, I'm ignorant, what is/was the Hoerner wing tip?
As far as any of us on the list know (I'm going back about 4 years), there
has never been any really serious aerodynamic testing of the Piet, so
'hard' data about things like different wing tip performance probably
doesn't exist (I say while lifting my foot towards my mouth).
For a while I was employed at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, VA, the
place where they are doing the wind-tunnel testing of the EAA's 1903 Wright
Flyer replica. I was acquainted with some of the guys involved & at that
time there was some talk about trying to interest them in putting a Piet
(or 2) into the wind tunnel. However, we (the list) never got our act
together & then I moved to OH. Maybe someday.
BTW, I got the CD of Brodhead pics you sent - very nice - thanks !
With all this talk of a group 'lap around America' I wish I had the next
year free to work on my Piet full-time! Guess I'll just have to settle for
being Tail-End Charlie some day!
Cheers,
Kip Gardner
North Canton, OH
Message 11
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Hi Vic,
I'll tell you how I did mine--YMMV, as they say. I'm not familiar with Vi
Kappler's wing plans, so I can't speak to that one. I used 1" material for
my spars and routed it. I don't feel like I had a particularly good reason
to do it that way, but I liked the idea of having a one-piece machined wood
spar. Also, it puts the material at the top and bottom where it does good
and leaves a thinner (1/2") web where it doesn't. I considered, and priced,
the I-beam option. It would have been just as good, use less wood, and lots
more epoxy.
I built the ribs with only a single upright next to each rib. It saves an
insignificant amount of weight, and doesn't affect the rib integrity at all.
It also makes it impossible to have problems fitting the ribs onto the spar.
When I glued up the wing, I used spring clamps to hold the ribs to the spars
as the glue hardened. I made the ribs first--much cheaper, and it gives you
a chance to look at the kind of wood that your supplier delivers. I wound
up buying my wood from Wick's because of that experiment.
I gussetted my compression struts to everything in sight. I didn't trust
the butt joint as far as I could throw it, and I could imagine enough
flexure in the wing to pop the strut off and leave it lying on the bottom
surface of the wing. You can make the top strut flush with the top of the
spar and put a plywood gusset over both of them. The bottom strut has to be
above the bottom of the spar due to the undercamber, but I made up a
trapazoidal filler block, and gusseted it to the bottom of the spar.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Victorjeanharper@aol.com [mailto:Victorjeanharper@aol.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol wings
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Victorjeanharper@aol.com
Hello, I'm getting ready to start building, I thought I'd do the wings
first.
I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind. I have Don Pietenpols
plans, are Vi Kapplers better? How did you make your spars, routed plank,
I-beam
etc. Should you build the spars first to get the width dimension of the
caps
so the ribs can be build to that size? .When you glue the compression struts
to the spars did you add any triangle gussets. Thanks for any help!! Vic
Harper
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: an aquaintance of mine goes down in his Cessna 140 |
- sad ...
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dmott9@aol.com
In a message dated 8/25/03 6:55:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
aircamper@imagedv.com writes:
> It just goes to show you how quickly things can change. I know alot of us
> like to fly "low and slow" but I really hope that we can learn from stuff
> like this.. flying low over populated areas or areas unknown to us poses a
> serious risk.
>
> Let's all think twice before we "get down" for those low passes.
>
My flying instructor always told me he better not hear about me flying lower
than 800' for any reason other than to take off and land. Way too many low
level flyby accidents I've heard of and seen the remains of. Bridges, power
lines, and all are nothing to fool around with.
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: You don't have a WHAT ? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/03 8:14:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
TomTravis@aol.com writes:
<< If I can get mine finished in time, deal me in. When do we leave?
Tom Travis >>
A preliminary date, would be next summer. Kinda general, right now. Around
Brodhead, for sure. We could hook up with folks in various places around the
country that can't make the whole oddisy, and maybe they could fly a leg, or
so.
Chuck G.
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Reunion this Weekend in Ohio |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/03 9:35:50 AM Central Daylight Time, Carbarvo@aol.com
writes:
<< Tell ya what...I'll
Xerox the first installment and mail it to you >>
Carl,
Before you go to that hassle, let me talk with Sue Lurvey at the EAA library,
first. Cy Galley's suggestion. A big Thank You, to Cy, for his help at
Oshkosh !! He's one of the guys that volunteers his time and expertise, at
Emergency Aircraft Repair. Folks like him are credited with what makes our 'World
of Aviation' go 'round & 'round. Ain't nobody in the world, like 'Airplane
People' !!!
Chuck
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol wings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Eugene,
Like you, I used the I-beam spar section. But I laminated my spars from
very fine grade Douglas Fir and installed swallow tail filler blocks at the
fitting attachment points. This was back in 1968-69 and Aerolite glue was
then in favour. On my most recent annual inspection, I found absolutely no
sign of glue line separation anywhere, although excess Aerolite fillets that
were squeezed out during clamping tend to crack and craze. If I were to
build another wooden airplane, I would use something like T 88.
I, too, was leery about those compression struts simply butting up against
the spar with nothing to hold them in place except the compressive force
generated by the drag/antidrag wires. I gusseted everything, as you did,
and tied the upper and lower struts together with 1/8" x 1 1/4" plywood
strips near both front and rear spars. (I had read an account of the com-
pression strut on a British SE 5 coming adrift during its testing program.
The wing folded and the test pilot was killed. The fix was to secure the
compression strut attachment and the SE 5 became a stout aircraft which
was about the best available to withstand the rigors of skywriting in the
years following WW I.)
My Pietenpol has been flying for nearly 33 years and has given good ser-
vice. It is a good design and a few easy, but important, changes can en-
hance its durability and safety. I heartily agree with your changes.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (CF-AUN, in cooler Alberta, Canada)
.
Message 16
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Pieters,
I just posted 10 pictures and have many more to come of our Piet project.
Check it out.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList.cfm?Menu=PhotoGallery
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: You don't have a WHAT ? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
--- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/26/03 8:14:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
> TomTravis@aol.com writes:
>
> << If I can get mine finished in time, deal me in. When do we leave?
>
>
>
>
> Tom Travis >>
>
> A preliminary date, would be next summer. Kinda general, right now.
> Around
> Brodhead, for sure. We could hook up with folks in various places
> around the
> country that can't make the whole oddisy, and maybe they could fly a
> leg, or
> so.
>
> Chuck G.
That is a great idea, I will tell you what has worked here in long
trips with several planes (and diferent speeds):
There has to be a Leader (or two).
They organize the flyinn "thinking for them selves" if anybody joins,
has two options: follow the leader or go by itself.
Trying to organize a flight (with several legs) that will work with
everyone will never get right, if ever gets done.
Hope this helps, and I am sorry that I cant make it, maybe only
directly from Texas to Broadhead and Oshkosh...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
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