Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:03 AM - Re: Parts (TomTravis@aol.com)
2. 07:09 AM - V??? (Isablcorky@aol.com)
3. 09:49 AM - Re: Sunday outing (Prange Larry J CONT PSNS)
4. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts (DJ Vegh)
5. 11:09 AM - Re: uprights next to the spars (Jeff Cours)
6. 11:38 AM - routed spars (DJ Vegh)
7. 11:55 AM - Re: routed spars (Jim Markle)
8. 11:56 AM - Re: routed spars (Greg Cardinal)
9. 12:20 PM - Re: routed spars (DJ Vegh)
10. 02:20 PM - Re: routed spars (Isablcorky@aol.com)
11. 02:20 PM - Re: routed spars (baileys)
12. 06:55 PM - Getting Started (William Rives Young)
13. 09:01 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce - I am about to never use them again. (Dmott9@aol.com)
14. 09:08 PM - Re: Getting Started ()
15. 09:24 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables (DJ Vegh)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TomTravis@aol.com
I replaced mine with valves from Eagle Fuel Cells and have been very happy
with them. Those old Curtiss valves were a pain because it seemed every time I
checked the fuel I caused a leak.
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Pieters,
I wish the Pieter from Mesa whose last name is four letters beginning with V
to contact me direct. " I'm on final, below minimums, and need some help"
Corky in wet La
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sunday outing |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil>
Hi Terry,
Sorry that I didn't get back to you right away . . . The Labor Day
weekend/house full of family and all . . . Thanks for the kind words about
my ship! Yea, the struts are the Skytek 6061-T6 aluminum ones. (
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html ) I used the larger ( 3.13" x 1.25" )
ones for the front and the smaller (2.44" x 1" ) ones for the aft. I welded
up end fittings out of 4140 square stock. The strut end fittings average
about a foot or so long. They go in about two inches past where you see the
last bolt.
Larry Prange - Partially conscious, Tuesday morning on the Olympic
Peninsula.
****************************************************************************
****
Time: 04:27:30 AM PST US
From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sunday outing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/2003 1:56:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
cdawson5854@shaw.ca writes:
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=140
**************************************************************
I was just admiring the photos of Larry Prange's Piet. What a beautiful job
Larry! I have a question about thosae struts. Are those streamline
aluminum
with steel tube inside for reinforcement?
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Larry,
I'm using the same Skytek struts. Are you glad you went that route? anything
you would do differently about them in afterthought?
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS
To: 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 9:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sunday outing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil>
Hi Terry,
Sorry that I didn't get back to you right away . . . The Labor Day
weekend/house full of family and all . . . Thanks for the kind words about
my ship! Yea, the struts are the Skytek 6061-T6 aluminum ones. (
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html ) I used the larger ( 3.13" x 1.25" )
ones for the front and the smaller (2.44" x 1" ) ones for the aft. I welded
up end fittings out of 4140 square stock. The strut end fittings average
about a foot or so long. They go in about two inches past where you see the
last bolt.
Larry Prange - Partially conscious, Tuesday morning on the Olympic
Peninsula.
****************************************************************************
****
Time: 04:27:30 AM PST US
From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sunday outing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/2003 1:56:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
cdawson5854@shaw.ca writes:
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID140
**************************************************************
I was just admiring the photos of Larry Prange's Piet. What a beautiful job
Larry! I have a question about thosae struts. Are those streamline
aluminum
with steel tube inside for reinforcement?
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
=
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: uprights next to the spars |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <piet-j@moriarti.org>
Leon Stefan wrote:
> Jeff: I put vertical sticks in my ribs at the spar location - both
> spars, front and back of the spar. I found that the vertical piece on
> the back of my rear spar interfered with the cable routing when I made
> my center section so I removed them. I could make spacers to move the
> cables out of the way, but it's adding weight. I am going to remove all
> of the vertical braces on the back side of the rear spar because of this
> interference and weight savings.
Thanks for the info. Between your answer and Jim V's, I may leave them
out altogether, per the original drawings.
I've been planning on using routed 1" spars -- I figure the difference
in weight between 1" routed and 3/4" laminated + spacers is probably a
wash, and they should be about the same strength, so it seems to boil
down to a matter of cost and construction time. With a routed spar, it
seems like that gap between the spar and the upright would make it hard
to glue to the upright, so I guess that means gluing top and bottom when
attaching the rib to the spar.
I've been trying to figure out if the upright contributes any
significant mechanical strength. Since it's right next to the spar, it
doesn't look like it'd help with compression loads. The low pressure
zone above the wing might put a tension load on that little glue patch
between the top of the rib and the spars, and without a gussetted
upright there's nothing to transfer that load to the rib's underside. I
don't know if that's a problem or not.[1] I assume not since the
design's been out there since the 30's, and I'd expect any problems to
have surfaced long before now.
- Jeff C.
[1] Unfortunately, I didn't take any stress analysis in school. I tried
a back-of-the-envelope calculation where I assumed the glued joints
between the tops of the spars and the ribs carried the full load in
tension, and then doubled it to allow an extra margin because I didn't
know how to figure in the sheer forces from drag, but I ran out of data:
don't know the tensile strength of the wood (or the glue, though it
ought to be stronger than the wood.) Maybe I need to browse through some
design books and ACs. Or see if the local community college teaches
basic stress analysis...
Message 6
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
How much weight can be eliminated by routing 1" spars? My GN-1 has solid 1" spars
and seems to me to be overkill. I wonder what I could expect to save in
weight by routing a la Piet.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
GFYJF
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Cours
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: uprights next to the spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <piet-j@moriarti.org>
Leon Stefan wrote:
> Jeff: I put vertical sticks in my ribs at the spar location - both
> spars, front and back of the spar. I found that the vertical piece on
> the back of my rear spar interfered with the cable routing when I made
> my center section so I removed them. I could make spacers to move the
> cables out of the way, but it's adding weight. I am going to remove all
> of the vertical braces on the back side of the rear spar because of this
> interference and weight savings.
Thanks for the info. Between your answer and Jim V's, I may leave them
out altogether, per the original drawings.
I've been planning on using routed 1" spars -- I figure the difference
in weight between 1" routed and 3/4" laminated + spacers is probably a
wash, and they should be about the same strength, so it seems to boil
down to a matter of cost and construction time. With a routed spar, it
seems like that gap between the spar and the upright would make it hard
to glue to the upright, so I guess that means gluing top and bottom when
attaching the rib to the spar.
I've been trying to figure out if the upright contributes any
significant mechanical strength. Since it's right next to the spar, it
doesn't look like it'd help with compression loads. The low pressure
zone above the wing might put a tension load on that little glue patch
between the top of the rib and the spars, and without a gussetted
upright there's nothing to transfer that load to the rib's underside. I
don't know if that's a problem or not.[1] I assume not since the
design's been out there since the 30's, and I'd expect any problems to
have surfaced long before now.
- Jeff C.
[1] Unfortunately, I didn't take any stress analysis in school. I tried
a back-of-the-envelope calculation where I assumed the glued joints
between the tops of the spars and the ribs carried the full load in
tension, and then doubled it to allow an extra margin because I didn't
know how to figure in the sheer forces from drag, but I ran out of data:
don't know the tensile strength of the wood (or the glue, though it
ought to be stronger than the wood.) Maybe I need to browse through some
design books and ACs. Or see if the local community college teaches
basic stress analysis...
=
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: routed spars |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
A search of the matronics Pietenpol archives indicates 8 (likely) lbs at the
least and 10-15 at the (unlikely) most.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: routed spars
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> How much weight can be eliminated by routing 1" spars? My GN-1 has solid
1" spars and seems to me to be overkill. I wonder what I could expect to
save in weight by routing a la Piet.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> -
>
> GFYJF
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Cours
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: uprights next to the spars
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <piet-j@moriarti.org>
>
> Leon Stefan wrote:
> > Jeff: I put vertical sticks in my ribs at the spar location - both
> > spars, front and back of the spar. I found that the vertical piece on
> > the back of my rear spar interfered with the cable routing when I made
> > my center section so I removed them. I could make spacers to move the
> > cables out of the way, but it's adding weight. I am going to remove
all
> > of the vertical braces on the back side of the rear spar because of
this
> > interference and weight savings.
>
> Thanks for the info. Between your answer and Jim V's, I may leave them
> out altogether, per the original drawings.
>
> I've been planning on using routed 1" spars -- I figure the difference
> in weight between 1" routed and 3/4" laminated + spacers is probably a
> wash, and they should be about the same strength, so it seems to boil
> down to a matter of cost and construction time. With a routed spar, it
> seems like that gap between the spar and the upright would make it hard
> to glue to the upright, so I guess that means gluing top and bottom when
> attaching the rib to the spar.
>
> I've been trying to figure out if the upright contributes any
> significant mechanical strength. Since it's right next to the spar, it
> doesn't look like it'd help with compression loads. The low pressure
> zone above the wing might put a tension load on that little glue patch
> between the top of the rib and the spars, and without a gussetted
> upright there's nothing to transfer that load to the rib's underside. I
> don't know if that's a problem or not.[1] I assume not since the
> design's been out there since the 30's, and I'd expect any problems to
> have surfaced long before now.
>
> - Jeff C.
>
> [1] Unfortunately, I didn't take any stress analysis in school. I tried
> a back-of-the-envelope calculation where I assumed the glued joints
> between the tops of the spars and the ribs carried the full load in
> tension, and then doubled it to allow an extra margin because I didn't
> know how to figure in the sheer forces from drag, but I ran out of data:
> don't know the tensile strength of the wood (or the glue, though it
> ought to be stronger than the wood.) Maybe I need to browse through some
> design books and ACs. Or see if the local community college teaches
> basic stress analysis...
>
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
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>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: routed spars |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>
At 28 lbs per cubic foot a Pietenpol will save a little over 5 lbs per
spar by routing.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> aircamper@imagedv.com 09/02/03 01:36PM >>>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
<aircamper@imagedv.com>
How much weight can be eliminated by routing 1" spars? My GN-1 has
solid 1" spars and seems to me to be overkill. I wonder what I could
expect to save in weight by routing a la Piet.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
GFYJF
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Cours
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: uprights next to the spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours
<piet-j@moriarti.org>
Leon Stefan wrote:
> Jeff: I put vertical sticks in my ribs at the spar location - both
> spars, front and back of the spar. I found that the vertical piece
on
> the back of my rear spar interfered with the cable routing when I
made
> my center section so I removed them. I could make spacers to move
the
> cables out of the way, but it's adding weight. I am going to remove
all
> of the vertical braces on the back side of the rear spar because of
this
> interference and weight savings.
Thanks for the info. Between your answer and Jim V's, I may leave
them
out altogether, per the original drawings.
I've been planning on using routed 1" spars -- I figure the
difference
in weight between 1" routed and 3/4" laminated + spacers is probably
a
wash, and they should be about the same strength, so it seems to
boil
down to a matter of cost and construction time. With a routed spar,
it
seems like that gap between the spar and the upright would make it
hard
to glue to the upright, so I guess that means gluing top and bottom
when
attaching the rib to the spar.
I've been trying to figure out if the upright contributes any
significant mechanical strength. Since it's right next to the spar,
it
doesn't look like it'd help with compression loads. The low pressure
zone above the wing might put a tension load on that little glue
patch
between the top of the rib and the spars, and without a gussetted
upright there's nothing to transfer that load to the rib's underside.
I
don't know if that's a problem or not.[1] I assume not since the
design's been out there since the 30's, and I'd expect any problems
to
have surfaced long before now.
- Jeff C.
[1] Unfortunately, I didn't take any stress analysis in school. I
tried
a back-of-the-envelope calculation where I assumed the glued joints
between the tops of the spars and the ribs carried the full load in
tension, and then doubled it to allow an extra margin because I
didn't
know how to figure in the sheer forces from drag, but I ran out of
data:
don't know the tensile strength of the wood (or the glue, though it
ought to be stronger than the wood.) Maybe I need to browse through
some
design books and ACs. Or see if the local community college teaches
basic stress analysis...
=
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing
by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For
more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: routed spars |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
thanks.....
does anyone have a picture or two or three they could send me of a routed spar?
DJ Vegh
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: routed spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@startribune.com>
At 28 lbs per cubic foot a Pietenpol will save a little over 5 lbs per
spar by routing.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> aircamper@imagedv.com 09/02/03 01:36PM >>>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
<aircamper@imagedv.com>
=
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: routed spars |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
DJ,
I routed my spars on 41CC.Never worked so hard, made a bigger mess and
accomplished so little as that operation. This time my spars are 3/4 as before
and
they will remain 3/4. I'll save some weight elsewhere. Less than 4 lbs if I
remember. Just my 1 cent thrown in but I still remember that messy task.
Corky
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: routed spars |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
> does anyone have a picture or two or three they could >send me of a routed
spar?
How about posting them?
Bob B. - Missouri
Do not archive
Message 12
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "William Rives Young" <wry22@drexel.edu>
I have had my plans now for about a year and am finally getting started. I decided
to start building wing ribs because I can do that in my dorm. I started on
the wing rib jig today and am looking for suggestions from you'll on finishing
the jig and starting on the ribs.
Thanks
Will
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce - I am about to never use them again. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dmott9@aol.com
In a message dated 8/27/03 3:12:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
aircamper@imagedv.com writes:
> So then I say, "maybe all those other cables are good and I got a bad set.
> Just send me a good set." She says no joy. sales are final I am stuck
with
> them.
>
> What the hell?? I've spent about $3,500 with them and now they want to
lose
> me over $70?
>
> DJ
> www.imagedv.com
You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your schooling.
Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get warranty or the
like.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Getting Started |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Decide on your spar and build your ribs to suit. If I were to build another
one, I would give strong consideration to the solid 3/4" spar. No glueing,
no routing....simple.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Rives Young" <wry22@drexel.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Getting Started
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "William Rives Young"
<wry22@drexel.edu>
>
> I have had my plans now for about a year and am finally getting started. I
decided to start building wing ribs because I can do that in my dorm. I
started on the wing rib jig today and am looking for suggestions from you'll
on finishing the jig and starting on the ribs.
>
> Thanks
> Will
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does not
given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they won't
even meet the cables rated strength.
It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the cable was
frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's custom
made...
You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are in fact
paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like some
of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them. I
think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I am that
AS&S would even sell them to me.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
------------------------
> You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your schooling.
> Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get warranty
or the
> like.
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