Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:45 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables (Jim Ash)
2. 01:32 AM - piet for sale (Isablcorky@aol.com)
3. 10:07 AM - Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts (Prange Larry J CONT PSNS)
4. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts (DJ Vegh)
5. 11:52 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables ()
6. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts (dpilot)
7. 12:01 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables (dpilot)
8. 12:34 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables (DJ Vegh)
9. 01:16 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables (John Ford)
10. 02:08 PM - a little late landing last night........ (Michael D Cuy)
11. 02:17 PM - Re:Don't want to sound like a turd, was= Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables (w b evans)
12. 03:00 PM - Re: a little late landing last night........ (w b evans)
13. 03:40 PM - Model A questions (Al Latham)
14. 06:42 PM - Re: a little late landing last night........ (dpilot)
15. 06:44 PM - Re:Don't want to sound like a turd, was= Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables (dpilot)
16. 06:48 PM - Re: Model A questions (dpilot)
17. 10:42 PM - Re: Model A questions (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
DJ -
I grasp the consequences entirely.
I had a rudder cable half frayed-through from friction in my Cub. If it
have frayed the other half, I wouldn't have been able to land, at least the
way I'd like to.
There, but for the Grace of God, go I.
These people aren't just selling cable, they're selling AIRCRAFT cable.
It's implied in their name. I can get clothesline cable at my local
hardware store for a lot cheaper, so you're paying dearly for something,
even if it is just the manufacturer's lawyers. I'm with you; stick to your
guns.
Have you got the new cable yet?
Jim Ash
At 9/2/2003 09:25 PM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
>to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
>unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does not
>given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they won't
>even meet the cables rated strength.
>
>It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the cable was
>frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's custom
>made...
>
>You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are in fact
>paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
>
>Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like some
>of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them. I
>think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I am that
>AS&S would even sell them to me.
>
>DJ Vegh
>N74DV
>Mesa, AZ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Pieters,
Anyone interested or know of anyone interested in purchasing a good Piet w/
a 65 Continental for $ 16 K, please contact me direct. Do not use the net,
Please
Corky in La
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil>
Hey DJ!
I like your web site and your graphic-design skills a lot! I am very
pleased with the Skytek struts. The only thing that I might change is the
number of end fitting mounting bolts that I used on each. I might decrease
the number, by one, for each fitting. Sometimes I get a bit carried away
when I am not sure about the strength of something. Maybe one of the guys
on the list, with a structural engineering background, could tell us how
many bolts would be an adequate number . . .
For each strut end fitting I used a pair of 'nested' (one inside the other)
lengths of square, 0.065", 4130 tube. I then put a short length of very
thick, 4130 rod, perpendicular, at the end and wrapped part of the square
stock around it before welding, for the end mounting bolt to go through.
After welding, I drilled out the short tube, which deforms under the heat,
to accommodate size of the end mounting bolt.
I also used the Skytek Jury Strut kit. The kit consists of a couple of six
foot long lengths (I think they were six feet . . .) of 6061-T6, small
streamlined tubing, AN nuts and bolts, aluminum support blocks and
instructions. They look good and are very much worth the price.
- Gotta finish the Honey-Doos so I can get back to work on the Piet . . .
Larry Prange - NX1929A
********************************************************
Time: 10:34:38 AM PST US
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Larry,
I'm using the same Skytek struts. Are you glad you went that route?
anything
you would do differently about them in afterthought?
DJ
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Thanks Larry.
I also purchased the Skytek jury strut kit. I like the streamline extrusion they
send with it.... looks good.
I'm not sure how I will terminate the ends on my struts but your method sounds
good.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS
To: 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil>
Hey DJ!
I like your web site and your graphic-design skills a lot! I am very
pleased with the Skytek struts. The only thing that I might change is the
number of end fitting mounting bolts that I used on each. I might decrease
the number, by one, for each fitting. Sometimes I get a bit carried away
when I am not sure about the strength of something. Maybe one of the guys
on the list, with a structural engineering background, could tell us how
many bolts would be an adequate number . . .
For each strut end fitting I used a pair of 'nested' (one inside the other)
lengths of square, 0.065", 4130 tube. I then put a short length of very
thick, 4130 rod, perpendicular, at the end and wrapped part of the square
stock around it before welding, for the end mounting bolt to go through.
After welding, I drilled out the short tube, which deforms under the heat,
to accommodate size of the end mounting bolt.
I also used the Skytek Jury Strut kit. The kit consists of a couple of six
foot long lengths (I think they were six feet . . .) of 6061-T6, small
streamlined tubing, AN nuts and bolts, aluminum support blocks and
instructions. They look good and are very much worth the price.
- Gotta finish the Honey-Doos so I can get back to work on the Piet . . .
Larry Prange - NX1929A
********************************************************
Time: 10:34:38 AM PST US
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Larry,
I'm using the same Skytek struts. Are you glad you went that route?
anything
you would do differently about them in afterthought?
DJ
=
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" <catdesign@intergate.com>
I would be interested in seeing a picture or two. Not that I don't trust you
it's I just want to see if I would have caught it. All this make me wounder if
Aircraft Spruce is checking the quality of stuff they sell.
The best advice I got when I started to build was from a friend who teaches
people how to build RV's (the flying type) and it was this: Always check
your wood for defects and quality, always check your steel for proper
thickness, size and for defects, always check your hardware for size and
defects. Just because they (the supplier) say it is aircraft quality does not
mean it is. It's only their reputation and business on the line but it's your
butt in the air.
Chris T.
Sacramento, CA
Quoting DJ Vegh <aircamper@imagedv.com>:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
> unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does not
> given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they won't
> even meet the cables rated strength.
>
> It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the cable was
> frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's custom
> made...
>
> You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are in fact
> paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
>
> Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like some
> of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them. I
> think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I am that
> AS&S would even sell them to me.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> ------------------------
>
> > You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your schooling.
> > Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get warranty
> or the
> > like.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
Remember, the only thing that your lift struts do is keep your flying wires tight.
After you get flying you would be OK without any struts
JimV.
DJ Vegh <aircamper@imagedv.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
Thanks Larry.
I also purchased the Skytek jury strut kit. I like the streamline extrusion they
send with it.... looks good.
I'm not sure how I will terminate the ends on my struts but your method sounds
good.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J CONT PSNS
Hey DJ!
I like your web site and your graphic-design skills a lot! I am very
pleased with the Skytek struts. The only thing that I might change is the
number of end fitting mounting bolts that I used on each. I might decrease
the number, by one, for each fitting. Sometimes I get a bit carried away
when I am not sure about the strength of something. Maybe one of the guys
on the list, with a structural engineering background, could tell us how
many bolts would be an adequate number . . .
For each strut end fitting I used a pair of 'nested' (one inside the other)
lengths of square, 0.065", 4130 tube. I then put a short length of very
thick, 4130 rod, perpendicular, at the end and wrapped part of the square
stock around it before welding, for the end mounting bolt to go through.
After welding, I drilled out the short tube, which deforms under the heat,
to accommodate size of the end mounting bolt.
I also used the Skytek Jury Strut kit. The kit consists of a couple of six
foot long lengths (I think they were six feet . . .) of 6061-T6, small
streamlined tubing, AN nuts and bolts, aluminum support blocks and
instructions. They look good and are very much worth the price.
- Gotta finish the Honey-Doos so I can get back to work on the Piet . . .
Larry Prange - NX1929A
********************************************************
Time: 10:34:38 AM PST US
From: "DJ Vegh"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sunday outing - Skytek struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
Larry,
I'm using the same Skytek struts. Are you glad you went that route?
anything
you would do differently about them in afterthought?
DJ
=
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---------------------------------
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
Would someone tell where these cables are?
I made all mine by looping the cable and squeezing a nicopress to hold the loop
together.
It sure is cheap and has worked well for a long time.
JimV.
<catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ""
I would be interested in seeing a picture or two. Not that I don't trust you
it's I just want to see if I would have caught it. All this make me wounder if
Aircraft Spruce is checking the quality of stuff they sell.
The best advice I got when I started to build was from a friend who teaches
people how to build RV's (the flying type) and it was this: Always check
your wood for defects and quality, always check your steel for proper
thickness, size and for defects, always check your hardware for size and
defects. Just because they (the supplier) say it is aircraft quality does not
mean it is. It's only their reputation and business on the line but it's your
butt in the air.
Chris T.
Sacramento, CA
Quoting DJ Vegh :
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
>
> to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
> unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does not
> given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they won't
> even meet the cables rated strength.
>
> It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the cable was
> frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's custom
> made...
>
> You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are in fact
> paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
>
> Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like some
> of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them. I
> think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I am that
> AS&S would even sell them to me.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> ------------------------
>
> > You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your schooling.
> > Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get warranty
> or the
> > like.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Jim,
I am doing all my cables with swaged ends and fork fittings. More costly? yes,
but I like the clean look is provides.
DJ
-
----- Original Message -----
From: dpilot
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
Would someone tell where these cables are?
I made all mine by looping the cable and squeezing a nicopress to hold the loop
together.
It sure is cheap and has worked well for a long time.
JimV.
<catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ""
I would be interested in seeing a picture or two. Not that I don't trust you
it's I just want to see if I would have caught it. All this make me wounder if
Aircraft Spruce is checking the quality of stuff they sell.
The best advice I got when I started to build was from a friend who teaches
people how to build RV's (the flying type) and it was this: Always check
your wood for defects and quality, always check your steel for proper
thickness, size and for defects, always check your hardware for size and
defects. Just because they (the supplier) say it is aircraft quality does not
mean it is. It's only their reputation and business on the line but it's your
butt in the air.
Chris T.
Sacramento, CA
Quoting DJ Vegh :
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
>
> to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
> unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does not
> given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they won't
> even meet the cables rated strength.
>
> It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the cable was
> frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's custom
> made...
>
> You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are in fact
> paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
>
> Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like some
> of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them. I
> think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I am that
> AS&S would even sell them to me.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> ------------------------
>
> > You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your schooling.
> > Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get warranty
> or the
> > like.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
=
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Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
DJ,
No refund/no return policies are to guard against fickle buyers and/or
buyer's remorse, NOT against paying for a specific thing (airworthy
cables) and getting something different THAN WHAT YOU PAID FOR
(unairworthy cables). It's at best called bait and switch. You paid
for cables which meet certain industry guidlines. If what they sent
doesn't meet those industry guidelines, then the liability is theirs.
This may all be moot only if they had a disclaimer stating that you
*might not get what you order*. They figure (probably correctly) that
you're not going to file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of their
customers over the years because of a $70.00 order. There are probably
thousands of people out there who have had very similar experiences with
them. I would like to think that in a similar situation I would a)
switch vendors permanently and b) fight it. I might even be tempted to
show them (the cables) to people at airshows as an example of "aircraft
quality" (see what AS&S thinks of this idea). If people expect to get
trash for their money, then that's what the seller is going to provide.
Replacing your cables (with their volume) would probably cost them,
what, $25.00 or $30.00 including labor? Probably much less, and a smart
manager would have done it twice already if only to avoid the negative
word of mouth...
John
do not archive
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> dpilot@yahoo.com Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:01:06 PM >>>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
Would someone tell where these cables are?
I made all mine by looping the cable and squeezing a nicopress to hold
the loop together.
It sure is cheap and has worked well for a long time.
JimV.
<catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ""
I would be interested in seeing a picture or two. Not that I don't
trust you
it's I just want to see if I would have caught it. All this make me
wounder if
Aircraft Spruce is checking the quality of stuff they sell.
The best advice I got when I started to build was from a friend who
teaches
people how to build RV's (the flying type) and it was this: Always
check
your wood for defects and quality, always check your steel for proper
thickness, size and for defects, always check your hardware for size
and
defects. Just because they (the supplier) say it is aircraft quality
does not
mean it is. It's only their reputation and business on the line but
it's your
butt in the air.
Chris T.
Sacramento, CA
Quoting DJ Vegh :
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
>
> to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
> unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does
not
> given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they
won't
> even meet the cables rated strength.
>
> It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the
cable was
> frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's
custom
> made...
>
> You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are
in fact
> paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
>
> Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like
some
> of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them.
I
> think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I
am that
> AS&S would even sell them to me.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> ------------------------
>
> > You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your
schooling.
> > Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get
warranty
> or the
> > like.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 10
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|
Subject: | a little late landing last night........ |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Group-- I was coming back from a fellow pilot's nice farm strip west of
Cleveland last evening in the Pietenpol and had a little headwind, left a
little late, and got to my home airport a little later than usual. Boy
those city lights looked beautiful ! An ultralight that was out of our
airport had keyed the runway lights to come on just about when I arrived
and that made it even nicer. I hadn't flown this close to night in a
while and what struck me funny is how many of those cell phone towers have
strobes on them and blink all over the vista of your view like a low level
fireworks show here, there, and everywhere. What is legal VFR
anyway.....sunset or 30 minutes past ? (good thing he didn't ask me that
on my flight review a few weeks ago !) I don't make a habit of flying
that late, but haven't you guys noticed that the dog gone sunset time has
gotten waaaay too early these days ? Get all the flying in you can, Walt
Evans in NJ. Those boys in Texas and Louisianna and Florida can fly all
year long, but it gets nippy towards sunset in Ohio these next few months
and the sunset makes me leave work early sometimes !
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
- custom made cables
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
DJ and all,
Not to jump in here and sound like a big turd, but in the last 5 or 6 years,
and thru two projects, Aircraft Spruce has only given me top notch service.
In all that time there was only one order screwed up. I had ordered
aircraft cable to make all the strut wires. I think the order was for like,
40 ft. the order was recieved in a coil, but the coil consisted of about 5
pieces. the shortest being about 8 ft. long. Thought , what can I do
with this garbage.
That evening I emailed AS&S with a poison letter saying that I didn't
realize that I was getting "floor sweepings".
The next day there was a messege from the orders manager, that included a
BIG apoligy, and saying that the problem would be delt with at their end.
Also that my proper order was on it's way, and be sure to keep the first
order with their compliments.
Guess I'm a realist, and realize that the company has more than one
location, with lots of people, that ""Jim"" can't watch over every minute.
You probably got one of the new kids, or dead wood , that would soon move
out.
DJ, believe me that I don't side with the "get a life" guy, But you did
say that when you talked to them directly, they agreed to make good on the
cables.
Thats the great thing about building you're own plane. You are your own
little company, and that day you didn't let a bad part get thru QC. Good
for you.
The following isn't for the guys that are flying, only those still
glueing,,,,,,It's been said many times before, but (like last Sunday) when
you are flying along at 800 AGL on a very misty morning, when the whispy
clouds are drifting BELOW you, and the ground fog is in all the
valleys,,,,It will all be OK.
Ain't life grand? Yes, It's very grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
>
> DJ,
>
> No refund/no return policies are to guard against fickle buyers and/or
> buyer's remorse, NOT against paying for a specific thing (airworthy
> cables) and getting something different THAN WHAT YOU PAID FOR
> (unairworthy cables). It's at best called bait and switch. You paid
> for cables which meet certain industry guidlines. If what they sent
> doesn't meet those industry guidelines, then the liability is theirs.
> This may all be moot only if they had a disclaimer stating that you
> *might not get what you order*. They figure (probably correctly) that
> you're not going to file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of their
> customers over the years because of a $70.00 order. There are probably
> thousands of people out there who have had very similar experiences with
> them. I would like to think that in a similar situation I would a)
> switch vendors permanently and b) fight it. I might even be tempted to
> show them (the cables) to people at airshows as an example of "aircraft
> quality" (see what AS&S thinks of this idea). If people expect to get
> trash for their money, then that's what the seller is going to provide.
> Replacing your cables (with their volume) would probably cost them,
> what, $25.00 or $30.00 including labor? Probably much less, and a smart
> manager would have done it twice already if only to avoid the negative
> word of mouth...
>
> John
>
> do not archive
>
> John Ford
> john@indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
> >>> dpilot@yahoo.com Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:01:06 PM >>>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Would someone tell where these cables are?
> I made all mine by looping the cable and squeezing a nicopress to hold
> the loop together.
> It sure is cheap and has worked well for a long time.
> JimV.
>
>
> <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ""
>
> I would be interested in seeing a picture or two. Not that I don't
> trust you
> it's I just want to see if I would have caught it. All this make me
> wounder if
> Aircraft Spruce is checking the quality of stuff they sell.
>
> The best advice I got when I started to build was from a friend who
> teaches
> people how to build RV's (the flying type) and it was this: Always
> check
> your wood for defects and quality, always check your steel for proper
> thickness, size and for defects, always check your hardware for size
> and
> defects. Just because they (the supplier) say it is aircraft quality
> does not
> mean it is. It's only their reputation and business on the line but
> it's your
> butt in the air.
>
> Chris T.
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> Quoting DJ Vegh :
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> >
> > to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
> > unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does
> not
> > given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they
> won't
> > even meet the cables rated strength.
> >
> > It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the
> cable was
> > frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's
> custom
> > made...
> >
> > You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are
> in fact
> > paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
> >
> > Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like
> some
> > of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them.
> I
> > think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I
> am that
> > AS&S would even sell them to me.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > > You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your
> schooling.
> > > Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get
> warranty
> > or the
> > > like.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: a little late landing last night........ |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Mike C.,
Been trying, but the showers have been here for far toooooo long. But, you
know, I had a number of flights this summer that will carry me thru the
winter with great memories.
Life is grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a little late landing last night........
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> Group-- I was coming back from a fellow pilot's nice farm strip west of
> Cleveland last evening in the Pietenpol and had a little headwind, left a
> little late, and got to my home airport a little later than usual. Boy
> those city lights looked beautiful ! An ultralight that was out of our
> airport had keyed the runway lights to come on just about when I arrived
> and that made it even nicer. I hadn't flown this close to night in a
> while and what struck me funny is how many of those cell phone towers have
> strobes on them and blink all over the vista of your view like a low level
> fireworks show here, there, and everywhere. What is legal VFR
> anyway.....sunset or 30 minutes past ? (good thing he didn't ask me that
> on my flight review a few weeks ago !) I don't make a habit of flying
> that late, but haven't you guys noticed that the dog gone sunset time has
> gotten waaaay too early these days ? Get all the flying in you can, Walt
> Evans in NJ. Those boys in Texas and Louisianna and Florida can fly all
> year long, but it gets nippy towards sunset in Ohio these next few months
> and the sunset makes me leave work early sometimes !
>
> Mike C.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Model A questions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
Model A Guys,
I pulled the heads off of the pair of A's that I bought. One is +.080 and the
other is +.100
bore wise. What is the largest overbore that you can go and is it considered safe
for aircraft use.
I've dealt with thin cylinder walls on VW engines before and I don't want to get
into that. One car
guy told me that when they get to .080 he has them sleeved, has anyone gone this
route or is it
necessary? I had an airplane guy tell me that this wasn't necessary due to the
fact that you
can overbore to 3/16", I had heard .125 but not 3/16".
I'll most likely pull them down and have the cranks and rods magnafluxed and blocks
hot tanked
and checked for cracks and then set them aside till later on this winter. Also
need to come up with
a set of head studs as one didn't have any.
Meeting with a guy this week about doing my Menasco bearings, will hit him up for
these also.
Al Latham
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: a little late landing last night........ |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
Mike,
Reminds me of the time I and two friends were camping on Mr. Pietenpols airfield.
I thought I would fly kinda low over Cherry Grove in the full moonlight.
I wanted to make it a midnight flight, but couldn't wait
I took off at 11:30.
No blinking towers back then.
It was a wonderful flight.
JimV.
Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
Group-- I was coming back from a fellow pilot's nice farm strip west of
Cleveland last evening in the Pietenpol and had a little headwind, left a
little late, and got to my home airport a little later than usual. Boy
those city lights looked beautiful ! An ultralight that was out of our
airport had keyed the runway lights to come on just about when I arrived
and that made it even nicer. I hadn't flown this close to night in a
while and what struck me funny is how many of those cell phone towers have
strobes on them and blink all over the vista of your view like a low level
fireworks show here, there, and everywhere. What is legal VFR
anyway.....sunset or 30 minutes past ? (good thing he didn't ask me that
on my flight review a few weeks ago !) I don't make a habit of flying
that late, but haven't you guys noticed that the dog gone sunset time has
gotten waaaay too early these days ? Get all the flying in you can, Walt
Evans in NJ. Those boys in Texas and Louisianna and Florida can fly all
year long, but it gets nippy towards sunset in Ohio these next few months
and the sunset makes me leave work early sometimes !
Mike C.
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
- custom made cables
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
Especially when the telephone poles are poking up through the fog
JimV.
w b evans <wbeevans@verizon.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans"
DJ and all,
Not to jump in here and sound like a big turd, but in the last 5 or 6 years,
and thru two projects, Aircraft Spruce has only given me top notch service.
In all that time there was only one order screwed up. I had ordered
aircraft cable to make all the strut wires. I think the order was for like,
40 ft. the order was recieved in a coil, but the coil consisted of about 5
pieces. the shortest being about 8 ft. long. Thought , what can I do
with this garbage.
That evening I emailed AS&S with a poison letter saying that I didn't
realize that I was getting "floor sweepings".
The next day there was a messege from the orders manager, that included a
BIG apoligy, and saying that the problem would be delt with at their end.
Also that my proper order was on it's way, and be sure to keep the first
order with their compliments.
Guess I'm a realist, and realize that the company has more than one
location, with lots of people, that ""Jim"" can't watch over every minute.
You probably got one of the new kids, or dead wood , that would soon move
out.
DJ, believe me that I don't side with the "get a life" guy, But you did
say that when you talked to them directly, they agreed to make good on the
cables.
Thats the great thing about building you're own plane. You are your own
little company, and that day you didn't let a bad part get thru QC. Good
for you.
The following isn't for the guys that are flying, only those still
glueing,,,,,,It's been said many times before, but (like last Sunday) when
you are flying along at 800 AGL on a very misty morning, when the whispy
clouds are drifting BELOW you, and the ground fog is in all the
valleys,,,,It will all be OK.
Ain't life grand? Yes, It's very grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ford"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce - custom made cables
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford"
>
> DJ,
>
> No refund/no return policies are to guard against fickle buyers and/or
> buyer's remorse, NOT against paying for a specific thing (airworthy
> cables) and getting something different THAN WHAT YOU PAID FOR
> (unairworthy cables). It's at best called bait and switch. You paid
> for cables which meet certain industry guidlines. If what they sent
> doesn't meet those industry guidelines, then the liability is theirs.
> This may all be moot only if they had a disclaimer stating that you
> *might not get what you order*. They figure (probably correctly) that
> you're not going to file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of their
> customers over the years because of a $70.00 order. There are probably
> thousands of people out there who have had very similar experiences with
> them. I would like to think that in a similar situation I would a)
> switch vendors permanently and b) fight it. I might even be tempted to
> show them (the cables) to people at airshows as an example of "aircraft
> quality" (see what AS&S thinks of this idea). If people expect to get
> trash for their money, then that's what the seller is going to provide.
> Replacing your cables (with their volume) would probably cost them,
> what, $25.00 or $30.00 including labor? Probably much less, and a smart
> manager would have done it twice already if only to avoid the negative
> word of mouth...
>
> John
>
> do not archive
>
> John Ford
> john@indstate.edu
> 812-237-8542
>
>
> >>> dpilot@yahoo.com Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:01:06 PM >>>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot
>
> Would someone tell where these cables are?
> I made all mine by looping the cable and squeezing a nicopress to hold
> the loop together.
> It sure is cheap and has worked well for a long time.
> JimV.
>
>
> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ""
>
> I would be interested in seeing a picture or two. Not that I don't
> trust you
> it's I just want to see if I would have caught it. All this make me
> wounder if
> Aircraft Spruce is checking the quality of stuff they sell.
>
> The best advice I got when I started to build was from a friend who
> teaches
> people how to build RV's (the flying type) and it was this: Always
> check
> your wood for defects and quality, always check your steel for proper
> thickness, size and for defects, always check your hardware for size
> and
> defects. Just because they (the supplier) say it is aircraft quality
> does not
> mean it is. It's only their reputation and business on the line but
> it's your
> butt in the air.
>
> Chris T.
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> Quoting DJ Vegh :
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> >
> > to some extent I don't agree with that.... these cables are clearly
> > unairworthy. I understand custom made means no returns but that does
> not
> > given them the right to send cables that are made so poorly that they
> won't
> > even meet the cables rated strength.
> >
> > It'd be like saying no returns on a custom cable even though the
> cable was
> > frayed through 3 of the 7 strands of 19... no returns because it's
> custom
> > made...
> >
> > You expect them to be made properly when you purchase them. You are
> in fact
> > paying for a cable you can use not one you can't.
> >
> > Maybe I should post a picture or two of these cables...... seems like
> some
> > of you aren't fully grasping the consequences if I were to use them.
> I
> > think if you saw them first hand you'd understand how dumbfounded I
> am that
> > AS&S would even sell them to me.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > > You could look at it this way: Its $70 tuition towards your
> schooling.
> > > Lessons learned. Custom made usually sold as-is, unless you get
> warranty
> > or the
> > > like.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Re: Model A questions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dpilot <dpilot@yahoo.com>
I'm not a Model A person (T's are my cup of 'T')
But I would look at a catalog from one of the speciality parts houses, and see
if they offer a special set of high strength studs.
I've heard the "A" boys talk about them.
Ask Grant MacClaren.
JimV.
Al Latham <geebeed@grm.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham"
Model A Guys,
I pulled the heads off of the pair of A's that I bought. One is +.080 and the other
is +.100
bore wise. What is the largest overbore that you can go and is it considered safe
for aircraft use.
I've dealt with thin cylinder walls on VW engines before and I don't want to get
into that. One car
guy told me that when they get to .080 he has them sleeved, has anyone gone this
route or is it
necessary? I had an airplane guy tell me that this wasn't necessary due to the
fact that you
can overbore to 3/16", I had heard .125 but not 3/16".
I'll most likely pull them down and have the cranks and rods magnafluxed and blocks
hot tanked
and checked for cracks and then set them aside till later on this winter. Also
need to come up with
a set of head studs as one didn't have any.
Meeting with a guy this week about doing my Menasco bearings, will hit him up for
these also.
Al Latham
---------------------------------
Message 17
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|
Subject: | Re: Model A questions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/3/03 5:42:05 PM Central Daylight Time, geebeed@grm.net
writes:
<< What is the largest overbore that you can go and is it considered safe for
aircraft use. >>
The place that did the babbit on mine, told me a Model A engine can be bored
.125" over. I think that is pretty extreme, but you can get aftermarket
pistons that size. Mine was .060" over. I would suggest you use forged pistons,
instead of the cast alum pistons, and drill the crank and go with a pressure
oiling system. These stock engines have to opporate at 80% power, or more, just
to maintain level flight.
Chuck G.
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