Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:44 AM - Re: Wing washout (Rcaprd@aol.com)
2. 01:41 AM - Sealed Gap Empenage Flight Surfaces (Rcaprd@aol.com)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures ()
4. 08:13 AM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures (Jim Ash)
5. 08:22 AM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures (DJ Vegh)
6. 08:46 AM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures (Jim Ash)
7. 09:57 AM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures (DJ Vegh)
8. 10:38 AM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures (Jim Ash)
9. 12:21 PM - Fw: PIETENPOL used in the film RED BETSY ()
10. 01:01 PM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: AS&S - cable pictures (w b evans)
12. 01:39 PM - Re: spruce suppliers ()
13. 02:37 PM - Re: Sealed Gap Empenage Flight Surfaces (Alex Sloan)
14. 02:57 PM - Re: spruce suppliers (Alex Sloan)
15. 03:16 PM - Re: Taper shaft hub removal and prop carving (Wizzard187@aol.com)
16. 06:32 PM - Re: spruce suppliers (Isablcorky@aol.com (ricksilvia)
17. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: spruce suppliers (Isablcorky@aol.com (Isablcorky@aol.com)
18. 09:24 PM - PMA prices ? / was AS&S - cable pictures (Jim Ash)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing washout |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/03 8:40:23 AM Central Daylight Time, baileys@ktis.net
writes:
<< I haven't started construction so I'm spending a lot of armchair time with
the plans.
My question is; what is the correct amount of washout and how do you
establish it? Is it done when the putting the ribs on the spars or while
mating the wings to the fuselage? Also what serves as a reference point?
Bob B. - Missouri >>
Bob,
Washout is a twist in the wing, where the leading edge of the outboard
portion of the wing is twisted to a lower angle of incidence than the inboard
portion, causing the inboard portion to reach it's Critical Angle of Attack before
the outboard portion. Angle of incidence is the angle between the Mean
Aerodynamic Chord (MAC) of the wing, and the longitude 0 of the fuselage - on the
Piet it's the top of the longerons at the cockpits. On the Pietenpol the angle
of incidence is set with the difference in length of the cabane struts - the
front ones are 1" longer than the back ones, making about a 3 angle of
positive incidence. The purpose of washout is to ensure the inboard portion of
the
wing is location where the stall begins, leaving the outboard aileron portion
to be the last part of the wing to stall, thus maintaining aileron control
until the entire wing is stalled.
Now comes the kicker: On a hearshey bar wing - constant chord, straight wing
-, the stall naturally occurs at the inboard portion of the wing, therefore
washout is not really required. Just rig the entire wing at the same angle of
incidence as the inboard portion, where the cabane struts are, by the length
of the lift struts. Although, it could be recomended to err the tips toward a
lower angle of incidence. The wing twists easily, till the lift struts &
cables are installed. On wings where the leading edge is swept, or the trailing
edge is swept forward (tapered wings), or the entire wing is swept (like on
jets) is where washout really is needed, because sweeping the wing back causes
the tips to stall first.
Chuck G.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Sealed Gap Empenage Flight Surfaces |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
Here is an area where I varied from the plans just a little, but I didn't
want to endorse the change till I had some flight time on the plane. Curse
me all you purists !! We all know how important it is to seal the gaps at the
ailerons. I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps with
a strip of 3" fabric tape, before painting.
Now, I just didn't like the big gaps at the hinges of the elevators
(flippers) and rudder. I used the same method I used when building model planes,
I
call it a 'Double Monocoat Hinge'. I used Vi Kappler aluminum hinges, and
after building and fitting the control surfaces, before covering, I glued a
triangle piece of bulsa wood to the trailing edge of the horiz & vert stabs, and
the leading edge of the flippers and rudder, leaving a gap of 1/4" between the
tips of these triangle pieces, in line with and the same diameter as the hinge
pins. I then covered all the flight surfaces in the conventional manner,
assembled the flight surfaces with the pins, then glued a fabric strip down each
slope of the triangle piece, across the gap, then up the other triangle piece,
and trimmed it. I did this on the top and the bottom, so two layers of
fabric bridge the 1/4" gap, right on the hinge line.
Advantages:
1) It seals any air from leaking at the hinge, when the flight surface is
deflected, therefore less deflection is needed, thus reducing drag.
2) It is a secondary attachment of the flight surfaces, in the event of a
hinge failure, and keeps the hinge pins from working out, even if the cotter key
is gone.
3) It prevents any sticks or stuff from becoming lodged in the hinge area,
when operating out of unimproved strips.
4) Hawks don't have any gaps in their tail.
Chuck G.
I could e-mail directly to anyone wishing to see a picture
68 hrs flight time
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
DJ,
We will mark the cables at the point they enter the end fitting so we can
tell if they slip. We will then test them to 60% of the rated cable
strength. Keep in mind that this test WILL elongate any thimbles that are
installed; this is a good thing because the initial stretching is done
before the plane flies. This will save some adjusting later on.
Greg Cardinal
Ph. 612 721-6235
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> sweet! I'll take you up on that offer. I'll send them on Monday.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> >
> > DJ,
> > Send them to me. Dale and I can pull test them with a calibrated testing
> > jig.
> >
> > Greg Cardinal
> > 5236 Shoreview Ave. So.
> > Minneapolis, MN 55417
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
<aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > >
> > > I'd love to pull test one but I don't have the proper rig for such
> > testing.
> > >
> > > Does anyone on the list have a way of pull testing a cable?
> > >
> > > DJ Vegh
> > > N74DV
> > > Mesa, AZ
> > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
> > > >
> > > > DJ,
> > > >
> > > > I'm certainly not saying to use them but I would love to see what
they
> > > pull
> > > > tested to...
> > > >
> > > > Maybe someone should send them a cable done properly.
> > > >
> > > > Al Latham
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > per request of a few members I have taken some shots that show the
> > poor
> > > > > manufacture of the cables.
> > > > >
> > > > > keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them
> yesterday.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval". Also you
can
> > see
> > > > the
> > > > > tool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper
airworthy
> > > > swages
> > > > > and these are not it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Would anyone here trust these on major components??
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > N74DV
> > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Gentlemen -
I'm curious about the pull test results, too, but where is this going? If
these cables don't pull clean, then sending them back is the way to go.
But what if they do? Are you going to consider using them or are you still
going to send them back? This is one of those times where you might not
want the answer you're looking for, so maybe you don't want to ask the
question.
Jim Ash
At 9/7/2003 09:19 AM -0500, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
>
>DJ,
>We will mark the cables at the point they enter the end fitting so we can
>tell if they slip. We will then test them to 60% of the rated cable
>strength. Keep in mind that this test WILL elongate any thimbles that are
>installed; this is a good thing because the initial stretching is done
>before the plane flies. This will save some adjusting later on.
>
>Greg Cardinal
>Ph. 612 721-6235
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> >
> > sweet! I'll take you up on that offer. I'll send them on Monday.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > N74DV
> > Mesa, AZ
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > >
> > > DJ,
> > > Send them to me. Dale and I can pull test them with a calibrated testing
> > > jig.
> > >
> > > Greg Cardinal
> > > 5236 Shoreview Ave. So.
> > > Minneapolis, MN 55417
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
><aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > >
> > > > I'd love to pull test one but I don't have the proper rig for such
> > > testing.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone on the list have a way of pull testing a cable?
> > > >
> > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > N74DV
> > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > DJ,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm certainly not saying to use them but I would love to see what
>they
> > > > pull
> > > > > tested to...
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe someone should send them a cable done properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Al Latham
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > > <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > per request of a few members I have taken some shots that show the
> > > poor
> > > > > > manufacture of the cables.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them
> > yesterday.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval". Also you
>can
> > > see
> > > > > the
> > > > > > tool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper
>airworthy
> > > > > swages
> > > > > > and these are not it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would anyone here trust these on major components??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpg
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > > N74DV
> > > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I'm still not going to use them even if they pull test ok. Pull testing
won't change the fact that they do not meet 43.12 spec. I'm doing this
just to see "if they would hold".
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
> Gentlemen -
>
> I'm curious about the pull test results, too, but where is this going? If
> these cables don't pull clean, then sending them back is the way to go.
>
> But what if they do? Are you going to consider using them or are you still
> going to send them back? This is one of those times where you might not
> want the answer you're looking for, so maybe you don't want to ask the
> question.
>
>
> Jim Ash
>
> At 9/7/2003 09:19 AM -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> >
> >DJ,
> >We will mark the cables at the point they enter the end fitting so we can
> >tell if they slip. We will then test them to 60% of the rated cable
> >strength. Keep in mind that this test WILL elongate any thimbles that are
> >installed; this is a good thing because the initial stretching is done
> >before the plane flies. This will save some adjusting later on.
> >
> >Greg Cardinal
> >Ph. 612 721-6235
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
<aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > >
> > > sweet! I'll take you up on that offer. I'll send them on Monday.
> > >
> > > DJ Vegh
> > > N74DV
> > > Mesa, AZ
> > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > > >
> > > > DJ,
> > > > Send them to me. Dale and I can pull test them with a calibrated
testing
> > > > jig.
> > > >
> > > > Greg Cardinal
> > > > 5236 Shoreview Ave. So.
> > > > Minneapolis, MN 55417
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> ><aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd love to pull test one but I don't have the proper rig for such
> > > > testing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone on the list have a way of pull testing a cable?
> > > > >
> > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > N74DV
> > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham"
<geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DJ,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm certainly not saying to use them but I would love to see
what
> >they
> > > > > pull
> > > > > > tested to...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe someone should send them a cable done properly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Al Latham
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > > > <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > per request of a few members I have taken some shots that show
the
> > > > poor
> > > > > > > manufacture of the cables.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them
> > > yesterday.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval". Also
you
> >can
> > > > see
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper
> >airworthy
> > > > > > swages
> > > > > > > and these are not it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would anyone here trust these on major components??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > > > N74DV
> > > > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
DJ -
I'm not trying to be a pain here, but what happens if AS&S claims they pull
test OK? It's going to make your argument a little tougher.
Obvously the cables still don't meet the swaging specs, which should be
enough, but if they were dealing with you rationally, their cables should
have met specs before they go out the door, and none of this should have
ever happened.
Toward that end, I'm curious if the shop that subs out the cables is a
Certified Repair Station (or manufacturer), or is it just some yahoo with a
roll of cable and a swaging tool in his garage. Those photos are an
embarrasment.
Jim Ash
At 9/7/2003 08:23 AM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
>I'm still not going to use them even if they pull test ok. Pull testing
>won't change the fact that they do not meet 43.12 spec. I'm doing this
>just to see "if they would hold".
>
>DJ Vegh
>N74DV
>Mesa, AZ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
>-
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Gentlemen -
> >
> > I'm curious about the pull test results, too, but where is this going? If
> > these cables don't pull clean, then sending them back is the way to go.
> >
> > But what if they do? Are you going to consider using them or are you still
> > going to send them back? This is one of those times where you might not
> > want the answer you're looking for, so maybe you don't want to ask the
> > question.
> >
> >
> > Jim Ash
> >
> > At 9/7/2003 09:19 AM -0500, you wrote:
> > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > >
> > >DJ,
> > >We will mark the cables at the point they enter the end fitting so we can
> > >tell if they slip. We will then test them to 60% of the rated cable
> > >strength. Keep in mind that this test WILL elongate any thimbles that are
> > >installed; this is a good thing because the initial stretching is done
> > >before the plane flies. This will save some adjusting later on.
> > >
> > >Greg Cardinal
> > >Ph. 612 721-6235
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
><aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > >
> > > > sweet! I'll take you up on that offer. I'll send them on Monday.
> > > >
> > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > N74DV
> > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > DJ,
> > > > > Send them to me. Dale and I can pull test them with a calibrated
>testing
> > > > > jig.
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg Cardinal
> > > > > 5236 Shoreview Ave. So.
> > > > > Minneapolis, MN 55417
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > ><aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd love to pull test one but I don't have the proper rig for such
> > > > > testing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anyone on the list have a way of pull testing a cable?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > > N74DV
> > > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham"
><geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > DJ,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm certainly not saying to use them but I would love to see
>what
> > >they
> > > > > > pull
> > > > > > > tested to...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe someone should send them a cable done properly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Al Latham
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > > > > <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > per request of a few members I have taken some shots that show
>the
> > > > > poor
> > > > > > > > manufacture of the cables.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them
> > > > yesterday.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval". Also
>you
> > >can
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > tool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper
> > >airworthy
> > > > > > > swages
> > > > > > > > and these are not it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would anyone here trust these on major components??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpg
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > > > > N74DV
> > > > > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Jim.... it's cool I know youre not trying to pick at me......
Jim Irwin at AS&S has emailed me regarding the cables. He said they are
farmed out to ACS Systems, which I found out is run by someone in his
family. To the best of my knowledge they are not a FAA certified repair
station.
Jim Irwin said the cables were checked with a no-go guage. He made no
mention of pull testing. I doubt they were tested with a no-go guage but if
they were then they were only tested on one axis.
Like I was saying.... if they pull test ok that is only half the equation...
they may pull test ok now, but after hours and hours of use who knows what
they may do. They need to pull test ok AND be swaged properly.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
> DJ -
>
> I'm not trying to be a pain here, but what happens if AS&S claims they
pull
> test OK? It's going to make your argument a little tougher.
>
> Obvously the cables still don't meet the swaging specs, which should be
> enough, but if they were dealing with you rationally, their cables should
> have met specs before they go out the door, and none of this should have
> ever happened.
>
> Toward that end, I'm curious if the shop that subs out the cables is a
> Certified Repair Station (or manufacturer), or is it just some yahoo with
a
> roll of cable and a swaging tool in his garage. Those photos are an
> embarrasment.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> At 9/7/2003 08:23 AM -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> >
> >I'm still not going to use them even if they pull test ok. Pull testing
> >won't change the fact that they do not meet 43.12 spec. I'm doing this
> >just to see "if they would hold".
> >
> >DJ Vegh
> >N74DV
> >Mesa, AZ
> >www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> >
> >-
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > Gentlemen -
> > >
> > > I'm curious about the pull test results, too, but where is this going?
If
> > > these cables don't pull clean, then sending them back is the way to
go.
> > >
> > > But what if they do? Are you going to consider using them or are you
still
> > > going to send them back? This is one of those times where you might
not
> > > want the answer you're looking for, so maybe you don't want to ask the
> > > question.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim Ash
> > >
> > > At 9/7/2003 09:19 AM -0500, you wrote:
> > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > > >
> > > >DJ,
> > > >We will mark the cables at the point they enter the end fitting so we
can
> > > >tell if they slip. We will then test them to 60% of the rated cable
> > > >strength. Keep in mind that this test WILL elongate any thimbles that
are
> > > >installed; this is a good thing because the initial stretching is
done
> > > >before the plane flies. This will save some adjusting later on.
> > > >
> > > >Greg Cardinal
> > > >Ph. 612 721-6235
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> ><aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > sweet! I'll take you up on that offer. I'll send them on
Monday.
> > > > >
> > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > N74DV
> > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DJ,
> > > > > > Send them to me. Dale and I can pull test them with a calibrated
> >testing
> > > > > > jig.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg Cardinal
> > > > > > 5236 Shoreview Ave. So.
> > > > > > Minneapolis, MN 55417
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > > ><aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd love to pull test one but I don't have the proper rig for
such
> > > > > > testing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have a way of pull testing a cable?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > > > N74DV
> > > > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Al Latham" <geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham"
> ><geebeed@grm.net>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > DJ,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm certainly not saying to use them but I would love to see
> >what
> > > >they
> > > > > > > pull
> > > > > > > > tested to...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe someone should send them a cable done properly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Al Latham
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > > > > > <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > per request of a few members I have taken some shots that
show
> >the
> > > > > > poor
> > > > > > > > > manufacture of the cables.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them
> > > > > yesterday.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval".
Also
> >you
> > > >can
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > tool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper
> > > >airworthy
> > > > > > > > swages
> > > > > > > > > and these are not it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Would anyone here trust these on major components??
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpg
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > DJ Vegh
> > > > > > > > > N74DV
> > > > > > > > > Mesa, AZ
> > > > > > > > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I'm looking at AC43.13 again (for the third time since this thread
started). If it comes down to the hair-splitting and lawyers, 43-13 doesn't
state exactly how to use the gauge. And Figure 4.3 doesn't state MAXIMUM
diemeter, although that's certainly what's implied. My copy of 43.13 has a
footnote behind the after-swaging shank diameter which says "Use gauges in
kit for checking diameters".
'Diameter' implies circles to me. The swage should be able to rotate in the
gauge, not just fit through it somehow. If I were writing the book, I'd
have it say the swaged shank of the terminal should fit in the go no-go
gauge and be able to freely rotate for the full length of the swage.
Have you told Jim Irwin your expectations in detail, down to this level?
I would also be interested to find out if they have an IA inspecting the
finished product. I suppose if you wanted to get ugly, you could take these
cables or photos to a DAR and see what they have to say.
Jim Ash
At 9/7/2003 09:58 AM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
>Jim.... it's cool I know youre not trying to pick at me......
>
>Jim Irwin at AS&S has emailed me regarding the cables. He said they are
>farmed out to ACS Systems, which I found out is run by someone in his
>family. To the best of my knowledge they are not a FAA certified repair
>station.
>
>Jim Irwin said the cables were checked with a no-go guage. He made no
>mention of pull testing. I doubt they were tested with a no-go guage but if
>they were then they were only tested on one axis.
>
>Like I was saying.... if they pull test ok that is only half the equation...
>they may pull test ok now, but after hours and hours of use who knows what
>they may do. They need to pull test ok AND be swaged properly.
>
>DJ Vegh
>N74DV
>Mesa, AZ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>...
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Fw: PIETENPOL used in the film RED BETSY |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
FYI-
----- Original Message -----
From: <info@redbetsy.com>
Subject: PIETENPOL used in the film RED BETSY
> Dear Greg ...
>
> We found your posting regarding PIETENPOL airplanes on the Internet in
> relation to the upcoming motion picture RED BETSY.
>
> RED BETSY features a genuine PIET that is owned by an avid enthusiast in
> Wisconsin. The film opens throughout the state on Friday, September 19th,
> and will be released wider throughout the country this fall.
>
> We would be happy to provide you with additional information about the
plane
> if you are interested. Additionally, is there a particular association
for
> PIETENPOL enthusiasts that we could contact to share more information
about
> the film with?
>
> Glad to hear that you found out about the film and the plane.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dylan Graham
> The RED BETSY Staff
> info@redbetsy.com
> ------------
> RED BETSY
> Opens in theatres Friday, September 19, 2003
> Visit the official website at:
> http://www.redbetsy.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
DJ,
There's a lot of interest in this from all of us who want to offer helpful
input in the test you plan to do. I want to add my 2 cents and perhaps this
will generate some more helpful discussion. I hope to learn not only whether our
supplier is selling bogus parts... but also to learn more about our beloved
Piet design so that we all know more about the machine we are building and
flying.
It makes no difference to me where AS&S gets the parts they sell, as long as
they are aircraft quality. But where the FAA is concerned, if AS&S is selling
parts as "approved" parts, it is AS&S's responsibility to ensure that their
suppliers are providing aircraft quality parts. Ultimately, as the installer
WE (under the guidance of our DAR) are responsible to ensure the airworthiness
of the parts we install. One technicality here (from the FAA standpoint) is
that AS&S can sell parts without a PMA or TSO approval and it becomes 100% OUR
responsibility to determine airworthiness. This is where our suppliers can
get us in trouble as amateur aircraft builders. WE have to make sure we don't
place all our trust that our suppliers are always providing "qualified" parts.
The FAA removes this sort of doubt for certified airplanes, because the parts
must be "approved" to be legally installed onto a TC'd airplane.
Experimental airplanes are not so. Therefore, we have to be the ones to audit
our own
suppliers.
I applaud your effort here. The issue at hand is to audit our standby
supplier AS&S and I believe we should hold them accountable for supplying us with
aircraft quality parts. I have not followed this close enough to recall
specifically which cable end is the subject of this discussion. But based on the
size of the cable, there should be some load rating for the cable. The test
should be applicable to this rating. There should be no sign of deformation or
yielding up to and including that point. So, let me pose a question for
thought.
What loads are you planning to test to? Let's be sure to get the test load
right. I think I read on one of these messages that 62% was planned...or
something.
From an engineering standpoint, you would want to test beyond the operational
and maximum loads it will see. A TC'd aircraft manufacturer would design a
cable rated high enough to withstand the maximum anticipated load plus a margin
of safety (usually a factor of at least 1.5 X maximum load.) In our case,
BHP selected this size of cable based on experience and his gut sense of
engineering. Keep this in mind as you test the cable and interpret the results.
Think about the application on the Piet and the maximum load it will see. Lets
take this opportunity to check BHP to make sure the cable is the appropriate
size for our application.
And finally, in auditing AS&S's cable end, it sure had better meet the rating
or they are going to hear from a lot of us.
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
My AP mentor makes these cables, and described the spiral swaging , that I
guess are the same as yours. From what he said the swager starts at one end
and spirals around and around, like a thread till it becomes one with the
cable. By the looks of your photo the ends were never really done. the
skirt at the end shouldn't have any space to be looked into.
Seems like the guy doing the work either had the wrong tool, or just didn't
know what he was doing. Or was just Gooshing them in a vice.
The finished product should be round.
Scarey!!!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
>
>
> I'm looking at AC43.13 again (for the third time since this thread
> started). If it comes down to the hair-splitting and lawyers, 43-13
doesn't
> state exactly how to use the gauge. And Figure 4.3 doesn't state MAXIMUM
> diemeter, although that's certainly what's implied. My copy of 43.13 has a
> footnote behind the after-swaging shank diameter which says "Use gauges in
> kit for checking diameters".
>
> 'Diameter' implies circles to me. The swage should be able to rotate in
the
> gauge, not just fit through it somehow. If I were writing the book, I'd
> have it say the swaged shank of the terminal should fit in the go no-go
> gauge and be able to freely rotate for the full length of the swage.
>
> Have you told Jim Irwin your expectations in detail, down to this level?
>
> I would also be interested to find out if they have an IA inspecting the
> finished product. I suppose if you wanted to get ugly, you could take
these
> cables or photos to a DAR and see what they have to say.
>
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> At 9/7/2003 09:58 AM -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
> >
> >Jim.... it's cool I know youre not trying to pick at me......
> >
> >Jim Irwin at AS&S has emailed me regarding the cables. He said they are
> >farmed out to ACS Systems, which I found out is run by someone in his
> >family. To the best of my knowledge they are not a FAA certified repair
> >station.
> >
> >Jim Irwin said the cables were checked with a no-go guage. He made no
> >mention of pull testing. I doubt they were tested with a no-go guage but
if
> >they were then they were only tested on one axis.
> >
> >Like I was saying.... if they pull test ok that is only half the
equation...
> >they may pull test ok now, but after hours and hours of use who knows
what
> >they may do. They need to pull test ok AND be swaged properly.
> >
> >DJ Vegh
> >N74DV
> >Mesa, AZ
> >www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >...
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: spruce suppliers |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" <catdesign@intergate.com>
Jeff, You can come on over and use my table saw and planer if you want but
sorry no jointer (yet).
Chris T.
Sacramento, Ca
Do not archive
Quoting Jeff Cours <piet-j@moriarti.org>:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <piet-j@moriarti.org>
>
> Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
> > I've had excellent service and quality from Edensaw in Port Townsend,
> > Washington. My first Piet I used Douglas Fir and for Repiet I
> > ordered Sitka Spruce, 6 pcs 2X6, 16 ft long. More than enough for a
> > Piet. You will have to have use of a large table saw for riping,
> > large joiner and planer.
>
> Interesting thought. Thanks, Corky, I may wind up contacting you for
> that info. I'm going to have to think about it for a bit, though -- not
> sure I could fit a large table saw and a joiner/planer in my shop.
>
> Hmm. I wonder how hard it'd be to mill the lumber with a bandsaw and a
> long-ish hand plane. Might be tough to keep capstrip accurate...
>
> - Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Sealed Gap Empenage Flight Surfaces |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1@bellsouth.net>
Chuck,
I would truly appreciate a picture of your plane and of the spoken method of
gap seals.
Alex Sloan
alexms1@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sealed Gap Empenage Flight Surfaces
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>
> Here is an area where I varied from the plans just a little, but I
didn't
> want to endorse the change till I had some flight time on the plane.
Curse
> me all you purists !! We all know how important it is to seal the gaps at
the
> ailerons. I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps
with
> a strip of 3" fabric tape, before painting.
> Now, I just didn't like the big gaps at the hinges of the elevators
> (flippers) and rudder. I used the same method I used when building model
planes, I
> call it a 'Double Monocoat Hinge'. I used Vi Kappler aluminum hinges, and
> after building and fitting the control surfaces, before covering, I glued
a
> triangle piece of bulsa wood to the trailing edge of the horiz & vert
stabs, and
> the leading edge of the flippers and rudder, leaving a gap of 1/4" between
the
> tips of these triangle pieces, in line with and the same diameter as the
hinge
> pins. I then covered all the flight surfaces in the conventional manner,
> assembled the flight surfaces with the pins, then glued a fabric strip
down each
> slope of the triangle piece, across the gap, then up the other triangle
piece,
> and trimmed it. I did this on the top and the bottom, so two layers of
> fabric bridge the 1/4" gap, right on the hinge line.
> Advantages:
> 1) It seals any air from leaking at the hinge, when the flight surface is
> deflected, therefore less deflection is needed, thus reducing drag.
> 2) It is a secondary attachment of the flight surfaces, in the event of a
> hinge failure, and keeps the hinge pins from working out, even if the
cotter key
> is gone.
> 3) It prevents any sticks or stuff from becoming lodged in the hinge
area,
> when operating out of unimproved strips.
> 4) Hawks don't have any gaps in their tail.
>
>
> Chuck G.
> I could e-mail directly to anyone wishing to see a picture
> 68 hrs flight time
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: spruce suppliers |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" <alexms1@bellsouth.net>
Chris,
A great jester on your part sharing your tools for Jeff to cut and plane his
spruce. My question, a first time wood plane builder, is where is a jointer
required in the building process of the Pietenpol?
Alex Sloan
North Alabama
alexms1@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <catdesign@intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce suppliers
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" <catdesign@intergate.com>
>
> Jeff, You can come on over and use my table saw and planer if you want but
> sorry no jointer (yet).
>
> Chris T.
> Sacramento, Ca
> Do not archive
>
> Quoting Jeff Cours <piet-j@moriarti.org>:
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <piet-j@moriarti.org>
> >
> > Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
> > > I've had excellent service and quality from Edensaw in Port Townsend,
> > > Washington. My first Piet I used Douglas Fir and for Repiet I
> > > ordered Sitka Spruce, 6 pcs 2X6, 16 ft long. More than enough for a
> > > Piet. You will have to have use of a large table saw for riping,
> > > large joiner and planer.
> >
> > Interesting thought. Thanks, Corky, I may wind up contacting you for
> > that info. I'm going to have to think about it for a bit, though -- not
> > sure I could fit a large table saw and a joiner/planer in my shop.
> >
> > Hmm. I wonder how hard it'd be to mill the lumber with a bandsaw and a
> > long-ish hand plane. Might be tough to keep capstrip accurate...
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Taper shaft hub removal and prop carving |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Wizzard187@aol.com
Pieters, Thanks to the infor from Chuck, Terry and Walt, I got my prop
hub off the tapered crankshaft without too much trouble. I had to put a
shim in the snapring to get some pressure on it but it came off pretty easy.
Do
they still use pliobond to put in crank seals?
My next question is : does someone have plans for making a machine to
carve a prop from an existing prop. I have some nice sliding bearing that
seem like a good place to start. ?Any help will be appreciated. Should be
a
good way to spend the winter.
Ken Conrad in warm dry Iowa waiting to combine corn and beans
Message 16
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "ricksilvia" <ricksilvia@lewiston.com>
Hello
Two quick questions if you don't mind. Why did you not use Douglas for a second
time. What grade was the
the 2X6 spruce you used.
Thanks
Rick
Message 17
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Rick,
I bought a Piet project from Joe Czaplicki of Zion, Ill. Fuse and feathers
completed in spruce. I had one month before bought 8 pcs of select Douglas Fir
2X6 16 ft from Edensaw. Since I had this wood I decided to use it for my wings.
I sold that I didn't need to a builder in Florida. I paid $4,50 a bd ft for
the fir .
I guess I decided on Spruce after talking with Jim Ferris at Edensaw last Jan
when he told me of some extra special quality spruce he had recently
acquired. It's beautiful but was almost twice the price of fir.
When I first contacted him in May 2000 I told him I required wood with an
absolute straight grain of at least 8 to 12 per inch without any knots or pitch
pockets. He called me back several days later stated he could furnish the
quality I required except the wood would have 18 to 24 grains to the inch.
I hope this explanation answers your questions
Corky
Edensaw Woods Ltd Attn: Jim Ferris
211 Seton Road
Port Townsend, Wa 98368-9300
360 385 7878
FAX 3603855215
edensaw@edensaw.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | PMA prices ? / was AS&S - cable pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I have no delusions that parts I use on an experimental are my problem. It
grates on me that parts that I can get for $5 from my local auto parts
supplier cost $50 when they're yellow tagged; that's the burden I bear if I
want standard type.
But somewhere in between are the parts suppliers for experimentals, who are
charging a bunch more than auto-parts prices, but with no particular
guarantee of airworthiness. When the smoke all clears, what am I getting
for my money from companies like this?
Glaring example - I'm looking at a Wag Aero catalog (I didn't have an AS&S
catalog handy), at the section on exhaust systems for Piper Style Aircraft.
An FAA/PMA pair of exhaust stacks that's legal for an A-65 in a J-3 is
$334.00. Same page, next item down: Stacks for a J-3 Style (What does
'style' mean anyhow? Gotta love those lawyers.) with C-85 thru O-200:
$347.15, but not approved for standard type, only experimental. They are
almost the same system (I've got a C-90 in my Cub; and I've seen the
exhaust systems in a bunch of Cubs). If I'm not getting PMA parts, why am I
paying PMA prices?
Can somebody clue me in on this one?
Jim Ash
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