---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/14/03: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:38 AM - Re: Brodhead photos (John Ford) 2. 10:40 AM - Re: Brodhead photos (John Ford) 3. 11:42 AM - Re: Brodhead photos (Carbarvo@aol.com) 4. 12:33 PM - Useful Weight (Deon Engelmann) 5. 12:42 PM - Re: Brodhead photos (Al Latham) 6. 12:59 PM - Re: McGregor Fly-in - (was)Thomasville Fly-In (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 7. 01:46 PM - Grega ailerons (dan john) 8. 03:23 PM - local spruce (William Rives Young) 9. 04:41 PM - Re: Grega ailerons (DJ Vegh) 10. 08:21 PM - Re: local spruce (Doyle K. Combs) 11. 08:34 PM - Re: local spruce (del magsam) 12. 09:41 PM - Box Spar Construction (ricksilvia) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:40 AM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" Walt, I would love to know more about what it really is. I had an opportunity to visit the Canadian Bush Pilots' Museum in Sault St. Marie, Canada, this summer (two weeks after Brodhead) and they had what seemed to be an identical engine advertised as a C-2. It must have been a good enough design for Aeronca to borrow. ;-) Thanks for the info! John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> wbeevans@verizon.net Saturday, September 13, 2003 4:00:14 PM >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" John, Just wanted to give you some input on one of your Brodhead pics. The one near the top of an engine on a test stand. You had called it a C2 engine, but in fact it is some old , French, I think, engine that was like the type flown over the english channel for the first time. The original design had a "one journal" crankshaft (both pistons move left then both pistons move right) This meant that the engine would never run smooth , with two firings followed by two exhausts. Kind of how a Harley lopes at idle. The owner of this engine had my AP mentor , Dick Lawson, who I always said could do remarkable things, make a double throw crankshaft. I saw the product from beginning to end. Started with a huge block of steel with blueing on it with all the scratch marks. Then he cut it out on a band saw. Then to the lathe to turn everything but the polished journals, which was done by a crank shop. and it was hardened to spec. Those little breathers on top were his add on too. He's now working on a second one for the same fellow. If you or anyone wants more infro on the engine, I can find out. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ford" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" > > I just uploaded a pile of photos from Brodhead 2003. I don't know how > long it will be before they are posted. Hopefully there are pictures of > some useful details and maybe some answers to some puzzles. I was > somewhat embarrassed to be taking so many pictures, but now I wish I had > taken a lot more and talked to a lot more of you. What a cool event... > > John > > do not archive > > > John Ford > john@indstate.edu > 812-237-8542 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:30 AM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" This is precisely why I love this list! John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> rambog@erols.com Saturday, September 13, 2003 5:17:14 PM >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" The engine in question is a 2 cylinder Lawrence engine going on a Bleriot project. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" > > John, > Just wanted to give you some input on one of your Brodhead pics. The one > near the top of an engine on a test stand. You had called it a C2 engine, > but in fact it is some old , French, I think, engine that was like the type > flown over the english channel for the first time. The original design had > a "one journal" crankshaft (both pistons move left then both pistons move > right) This meant that the engine would never run smooth , with two firings > followed by two exhausts. Kind of how a Harley lopes at idle. > The owner of this engine had my AP mentor , Dick Lawson, who I always said > could do remarkable things, make a double throw crankshaft. I saw the > product from beginning to end. Started with a huge block of steel with > blueing on it with all the scratch marks. Then he cut it out on a band saw. > Then to the lathe to turn everything but the polished journals, which was > done by a crank shop. and it was hardened to spec. Those little breathers > on top were his add on too. > He's now working on a second one for the same fellow. > If you or anyone wants more infro on the engine, I can find out. > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Ford" > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" > > > > I just uploaded a pile of photos from Brodhead 2003. I don't know how > > long it will be before they are posted. Hopefully there are pictures of > > some useful details and maybe some answers to some puzzles. I was > > somewhat embarrassed to be taking so many pictures, but now I wish I had > > taken a lot more and talked to a lot more of you. What a cool event... > > > > John > > > > do not archive > > > > > > John Ford > > john@indstate.edu > > 812-237-8542 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:45 AM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com At the risk of preaching to the choir........The most conspicuous external difference between a Lawrence Twin (used on the Penguin trainer) and the engine used in the C-2 is that the cylinders in the lawrence engine share a common centerline. That's why, when one offsets the rods and fabricates a two-journal crank, it can become a low vibration engine....Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:18 PM PST US From: "Deon Engelmann" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Useful Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Deon Engelmann" Hi all I've been lurking for quite a while on this list as the Pietenpol is one of my favorite airplanes. It is the simplicity and back to basics of the airplane that keeps on drawing me back to it. I need to make a decision for or against building the Pietenpol. What I need to know is the useful weight of the aircraft as I've seen everything from 610 lb empty with 385lb useful (995 lb max) to 535 lb empty with 715 lb useful (1250 lb max). I weight in at 260lb and my wife at 120. That does not leave much over for fuel if useful weight is only 385 lb. ;-) My home airport is at 5330 feet above sea level. If I build the Pietenpol it will have an O-200 in to compensate for altitude. (Model A fords are very scarce in South Africa.) I would appreciate any comments Thanx Deon Engelmann EAA322 Midrand # SA12055 Pretoria South Africa ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:15 PM PST US From: "Al Latham" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Al Latham" The Aeronca E-107-A and E-113A,B&C all had enclosed valve action and the crankcase faired into the backside of the prop hub. It is also a fair amount smaller then the Lawrence engines. The early engines that were Morehouse and Poole/Galloway engines and looked a lot like a small Lawrence engine. I don't think any production Aeronca's flew with these engines. The conversion of the Lawrence engine is covered in the Flying and Glider Manuals. The first one that I had ever seen was at Brodhead, really neat old engine, puts out quite a bark too. Didn't know that they put them on the Penguin's as I've only seen the one in the F & G Manuals with the single cylinder engine. Keep thinking about building a Penguin but it would have to be in my next lifetime as this one is full up with "want to" projects Al Latham ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead photos > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > At the risk of preaching to the choir........The most conspicuous external > difference between a Lawrence Twin (used on the Penguin trainer) and the engine > used in the C-2 is that the cylinders in the lawrence engine share a common > centerline. That's why, when one offsets the rods and fabricates a two-journal > crank, it can become a low vibration engine....Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:18 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor Fly-in - (was)Thomasville Fly-In --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/2003 8:15:48 PM Central Daylight Time, Rcaprd@aol.com writes: > Is McGregor just to the southwest of Waco ? > Yes Chuck, about 15 miles SW of Waco on Highway 84. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:24 PM PST US From: dan john Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grega ailerons --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john Hay gang,I understand that the ailerons on a Piet work much better if thay are sealed.Can anyone tell me if the ailerons on a Grega also need to be sealed,or does the hinging in the center rather than the top allow them to work better? Thanks,John P. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:00 PM PST US From: "William Rives Young" Subject: Pietenpol-List: local spruce --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "William Rives Young" Is there anywhere where one can buy Sitka spruce locally, around Philadelphia or Allentown PA? I don't want to pay the shipping that they want to charge at AS&S. I would consider using Douglas fir but am unsure as to what the requirements would be to qualify as safe to use in my wings ribs. So if someone has any pointers on what would make fir good enough to use in aircraft that I would use that rather than paying shipping. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:32 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grega ailerons --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" grega ailerons do require sealing. Most do it by using a strip of fabric. I'm planning on using a different method. my version can be seen here: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-12-02-aileron.htm If I were to do it over again I would have rather used pieano hinge like a Piet. Too late for me now as I have already made all my ribs. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan john" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grega ailerons > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john > > Hay gang,I understand that the ailerons on a Piet work > much better if thay are sealed.Can anyone tell me if > the ailerons on a Grega also need to be sealed,or does > the hinging in the center rather than the top allow > them to work better? Thanks,John P. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:20 PM PST US From: "Doyle K. Combs" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: local spruce --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Doyle K. Combs" Is any one aware of a PGN, which is a cross between a Piet and a GN-1? They were designed in Ohio. Thanks\ Doyle Combs ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:52 PM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: local spruce --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam search the area for sailboat wood suppliers. I recieved mine from Mccormicks in madison wisconsin, for $9.00 a bd ft. Del --- William Rives Young wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "William Rives > Young" > > Is there anywhere where one can buy Sitka spruce > locally, around Philadelphia or Allentown PA? I > don't want to pay the shipping that they want to > charge at AS&S. I would consider using Douglas fir > but am unsure as to what the requirements would be > to qualify as safe to use in my wings ribs. So if > someone has any pointers on what would make fir good > enough to use in aircraft that I would use that > rather than paying shipping. > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:47 PM PST US From: "ricksilvia" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Box Spar Construction --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "ricksilvia" Hello I just read the earlier discussion on building a box spar rather than use the solid spruce spar. Has anyone followed through on this idea?. Has anyone actually used a box spar in their Piet? Thanks Rick