---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/18/03: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: Fin/Rudder Dimensions (Ed Grentzer) 2. 06:08 AM - Link to the magazine article I scanned.... (Jim Markle) 3. 06:59 AM - McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions (Ken Chambers) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 5. 07:13 AM - Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear (Jim Markle) 6. 07:27 AM - Fuselage Weight (Barry Davis) 7. 07:53 AM - Re: Motorcycle wheels (Mike) 8. 07:55 AM - Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions (Christian Bobka) 9. 09:04 AM - Re: Motorcycle wheels (Gadd, Skip) 10. 09:27 AM - Fin/Rudder Dimensions (rhartwig11@juno.com.FORGED_JUNO_RCVD.'From'.juno.com.does.not.match.'Received'.headers (2.8 points)) 11. 09:44 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight (DJ Vegh) 12. 11:22 AM - Re: Fin/Rudder Dimensions (Steve Eldredge) 13. 11:49 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight (Gary M. Colwill) 14. 11:50 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight (Ed Grentzer) 15. 11:51 AM - Re: Fin/Rudder Dimensions (Gary M. Colwill) 16. 12:05 PM - Re: Fin/Rudder Dimensions (Hubbard, Eugene) 17. 12:32 PM - Re: Fuselage Weight () 18. 01:38 PM - Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions (Jon Botsford) 19. 01:38 PM - Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions (Jon Botsford) 20. 02:19 PM - Re:Fin/Rudder Dimensions (Michael Green) 21. 02:27 PM - Re: Wright Flyer show (N925WB1@aol.com) 22. 02:32 PM - Re: Motorcycle wheels (Carbarvo@aol.com) 23. 03:29 PM - Re: Wright Flyer show (Cy Galley) 24. 05:40 PM - Re: Engine mount (Alex Sloan) 25. 05:51 PM - Re: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear (Jim Ash) 26. 06:06 PM - fuselage weight (NormDecou@aol.com) 27. 06:34 PM - Re: Engine mount (Kip & Beth Gardner) 28. 06:58 PM - Re: fuselage weight (DJ Vegh) 29. 07:02 PM - Re: Engine mount (Alex Sloan) 30. 07:16 PM - Re: Engine mount (Alex Sloan) 31. 07:50 PM - Re: Fin/Rudder Dimensions (Rcaprd@aol.com) 32. 08:14 PM - Re: Engine mount (Carbarvo@aol.com) 33. 09:26 PM - Re: fuselage weight (Gary M. Colwill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:29 AM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Hello and welcome Mike...I guess you could call it normal. My rudder is 1/2" longer than the Verticle stab/ fuselage. I belive the plans show the 1/4" x 1/2" fairing strips running all the way to the tail post on the bottom of the fuselage which accounts for 1/2 of the missing length and then the rudder point on the bottom can be faired into the fuselage. Since I didn't run those strips all the way back on mine the rudder does extend past the fuse 1/2" on the bottom. Not a big deal really and I've seen this dicussion on the list before, you might want to check the Matronics archives. I guess you could shorten the rudder If it bothers you but I wouldn't, I've learned the hard way that when you depart from the plans the time to build factor goes way up. Ed G..... Palm Harbor Fl. U.S. >From: Michael Green >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:42:28 +1000 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Green > >Hi All, > >I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of >months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to >Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action >when it arrives. > >I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the >length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal >stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the >rudder leading edge. > >Is this normal ? > > >Mike Green >Romsey >Australia > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:22 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Link to the magazine article I scanned.... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" If you had a problem viewing the Pietenpol article, it was possibly because the mail list dropped the last number in the link (why me?). Should be: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=145 ending in 145...... Enjoy...... Jim in Plano.....one spar ready to slide on the ribs (as if I haven't already put some ribs on to see how 2 spars and a bunch of ribs look!!!) and the other 3 spars just a few hours away from completion.....WOOHOO!!!!! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions From: "Ken Chambers" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do differently? Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, finishing up the seats and control sticks. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:22 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Ken, McGregor airport is on Highway 84 west of Waco about 15 miles. The Identifyer for the airport is PNG. I flew a Piet once with the split axle gear like the hoopman plans call out. It was a nice set-up...not too soft...yet forgiving of my first landing which I dropped in a bit. This was on a semi-rough sod surface. My current project has a similar set-up with a modified J3 cub gear. Motorcycle wheels are not recommended as they lack side load strength. Some of the other guys can chime in on this. I am using cub wheels/brakes 8.00 X 4. See you Saturday at McGregor. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:58 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle -----Original Message----- From: Ken Chambers Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do differently? Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, finishing up the seats and control sticks. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:22 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. Barry Davis ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle wheels From: Mike --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike on 9/18/03 7:10, BARNSTMR@aol.com at BARNSTMR@aol.com wrote: > > .... Motorcycle wheels are not > recommended as they lack side load strength. Some of the other guys can chime > in on this. > We keep hearing this but I haven't seen evidence that it is true. Many motorcycles, using motorcycle wheels, have sidecars. A sidecar forces a motorcycle to turn like a car, putting side loads on the wheels. Also, many early airplanes used motorcycle wheels and I've heard that there are Piets out there with motorcycle wheels (using motorcycle hubs). Does anyone have actual evidence that a properly selected motorcycle wheel will fail under the side loads experienced in a Piet? Mike ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:30 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Just hope the president does not decide to go to crawford that weekend. The TFR would shut the flyin down. chris bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Chambers" Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" > > I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near > Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? > > Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought > two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. > > I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use > differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels > with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. > Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? > If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing > gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do > differently? > > Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. > > Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, > finishing up the seats and control sticks. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:41 AM PST US From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle wheels I am building my wheels with wider hubs, I just like the way they look. But, I have seen evidence that motorcycle hubs can carry some side loads. Several years ago Calvin Brown from New England, won the Wright Brothers award from the Dayton OH EAA chapter, you had to take your plane to Dayton to get the award. He had a nice one piece wing, very to the plans, Piet which he trailered to Dayton than on to Brodhead. He had a ground loop at Dayton. When he got to Brodhead there was still grass in the tire bead of one of his wheels. The wheels appeared in otherwise good condition and he did some flying at Brodhead. So it seems that his motorcycle hub wheel was able to carry some side load and not break. Skip --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:20 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions From: rhartwig11@juno.com.FORGED_JUNO_RCVD.'From'.juno.com.does.not.match.'Received'.headers (2.8 points) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com FORGED_JUNO_RCVD (2.8 points) 'From' juno.com does not match 'Received' headers Mike, You have saved yourself some extra work by noticing this discrepancy in the empenage dimensions. Also, take into account that the rudder when installed with hinges is approx 1/2 in. from the fin and has a trapezoidal shape. I made my vertical fin and rudder to the dimensions on the plans. When I placed them on the fuselage I found that the rudder hung below the fuselage approximately 1-inch. I am now lining up the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the fuselage and installing the hinges. This leaves the rudder higher than the vertical fin, so I am adding a piece of spruce to the top of the vertical fin. Some builders just let the rudder hang below the fuselage and that also works fine. Dick Hartwig _____________________________ Time: 11:43:13 PM PST US From: Michael Green Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Green Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:27 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at 195lb. That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can someone else chime in with some fuse numbers?? DJ Vegh N74DV ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. Barry Davis = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions From: "Steve Eldredge" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" I adjusted mine during the building to match up, top and bottom. Good eyes, most people don't see that during the plans review. Most people however don't notice on a plane that has the rudder hanging below the tailpost either. Steve e. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2.8 points Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com FORGED_JUNO_RCVD (2.8 points) 'From' juno.com does not match 'Received' headers Mike, You have saved yourself some extra work by noticing this discrepancy in the empenage dimensions. Also, take into account that the rudder when installed with hinges is approx 1/2 in. from the fin and has a trapezoidal shape. I made my vertical fin and rudder to the dimensions on the plans. When I placed them on the fuselage I found that the rudder hung below the fuselage approximately 1-inch. I am now lining up the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the fuselage and installing the hinges. This leaves the rudder higher than the vertical fin, so I am adding a piece of spruce to the top of the vertical fin. Some builders just let the rudder hang below the fuselage and that also works fine. Dick Hartwig _____________________________ Time: 11:43:13 PM PST US From: Michael Green Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Green Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:35 AM PST US From: "Gary M. Colwill" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" Wow - looks really good! Gary C Chino, CA do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at 195lb. That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can someone else chime in with some fuse numbers?? DJ Vegh N74DV ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. Barry Davis = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:24 AM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) last week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. wing tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals or fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear 6" wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a little heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. >From: "DJ Vegh" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at 195lb. >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can someone >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > >DJ Vegh >N74DV > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Barry Davis >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > >Barry Davis > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit >. > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:11 AM PST US From: "Gary M. Colwill" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" Just curious - did the aircraft that BHP built have rudders that extended below the tailpost? This seems to be more a "finish" issue than a "function" issue, but I'm curious to see how close the designer's planes are to the plans... Gary C. Chino, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" I adjusted mine during the building to match up, top and bottom. Good eyes, most people don't see that during the plans review. Most people however don't notice on a plane that has the rudder hanging below the tailpost either. Steve e. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2.8 points Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com FORGED_JUNO_RCVD (2.8 points) 'From' juno.com does not match 'Received' headers Mike, You have saved yourself some extra work by noticing this discrepancy in the empenage dimensions. Also, take into account that the rudder when installed with hinges is approx 1/2 in. from the fin and has a trapezoidal shape. I made my vertical fin and rudder to the dimensions on the plans. When I placed them on the fuselage I found that the rudder hung below the fuselage approximately 1-inch. I am now lining up the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the fuselage and installing the hinges. This leaves the rudder higher than the vertical fin, so I am adding a piece of spruce to the top of the vertical fin. Some builders just let the rudder hang below the fuselage and that also works fine. Dick Hartwig _____________________________ Time: 11:43:13 PM PST US From: Michael Green Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Green Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:22 PM PST US From: "Hubbard, Eugene" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" Mike, Good catch. I found it the hard way. The way I handled the problem was to add a filler strip to the bottom of the vertical fin, then to extend the fin mountings so that the through bolts go to the spar instead of the filler. If I were doing it again, I'd extend the fin to make them match. Welcome to the group. You'll have fun! Gene -----Original Message----- From: Michael Green [mailto:mmml@bigpond.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Green Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:30 PM PST US From: "" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" Hey Ed, What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh 5.2 pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the Heath would be lighter. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting Ed Grentzer : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) last > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. wing > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals or > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear 6" > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a little > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at 195lb. > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can someone > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > >DJ Vegh > >N74DV > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Barry Davis > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework with > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came up > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take scales > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > >. > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:33 PM PST US From: "Jon Botsford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" ken, EAA Chapter 59's Low & Slow Flyin will be this Saturday at McGregor Executive Airport. (PWG) The airport is owned by the City of McGregor. It is located just west of Waco, Texas. It is on Highway 84. If you are coming from Austin, Texas go North on IH-37 and get off at the Highway 6 exit. Go westerly on it until you get to Highway 84 (will be a overpass. Turn left on 84 (west). It will be about 7 miles from this point. There are shorter ways I will leave it up to you. Come eat some Catfish and see some Piets and other Low & Slow aircraft. To others on this list Y'all come and eat some Catfish with us!!. Bring your beautiful Piets!! Corky, are you listening??? Jon Botsford listening for Corky's answer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Chambers" Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do differently? Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, finishing up the seats and control sticks. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:33 PM PST US From: "Jon Botsford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" Hopefully the Hurricane has him grounded for the weekend!! Georgie stay away. PWG is about 11 miles from his ranch!! Jon Botsford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Just hope the president does not decide to go to crawford that weekend. The TFR would shut the flyin down. chris bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Chambers" Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" > > I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near > Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? > > Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought > two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. > > I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use > differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels > with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. > Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? > If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing > gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do > differently? > > Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. > > Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, > finishing up the seats and control sticks. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:36 PM PST US From: Michael Green Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Green Thanks guys, I thought that I'd missed something. Think I'll leave things as they are. Mike Green ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:37 PM PST US From: N925WB1@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wright Flyer show --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: N925WB1@aol.com Walt, That Piet is in the Virginia Aviation Musuem. I've never been there, but here's the web address: http://www.vam.smv.org/ The address for the plane info is: http://www.vam.smv.org/planedes.html The Wright replica being built on the Discovery show you saw is not the same plane that will be attempting the flight at Kitty Hawk later this year. That airplane is being built by Ken Hyde in Warrenton, VA at the Meadows private airstrip. I used to fly in that area, and have visited his shop many times to check out the various Wright airplanes he's building replicas of. Very cool. You may remember a few months ago when he crashed a Model B into some trees. This was a big scandal around the area, as he claimed to have only been taxi-testing the aircraft, but local rumor was that he had actually been flying it intentionally, but hadn't told the media or any of the sponsors to avoid attention. That's just a rumor, I honestly can't say that it's true. Anyway, Ken Hyde's outfit is called the Wright Experience, and their website is: http://www.wrightexperience.com/ -Wayne Bressler In a message dated 9/17/2003 10:04:03 PM Central Daylight Time, wbeevans@verizon.net writes: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" > > Was watching a show tonite about building the Wright Flyer, and saw a Piet > hanging from the hanger ceiling behind. > walt evans > NX140DL ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:44 PM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com Your question is a good one! I have just mailed a little (1062 word) article to the BPA Newsletter on the subject of wire wheels. I plan to send a copy of it off-net to Ken Chambers so that I can attach it. In the article, I have a list of a dozen or so Piets that have been flying with motorcycle wheels. I have a pair of 19X4 BMW wheels on my Piet which is some 85% complete. The article is somewhat inconclusive because I don't have the test data I need. I plan to run tests on a Kawasaki 21X3 wheel next spring. I think I can show that if the wheel can stand 1100 pounds sideload, the straight axle gear would collapse before the wheel would....Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:39 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wright Flyer show --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Here is the site for the Discovery Show. http://www.wrightredux.org/index.cfm?page=1 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wright Flyer show > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: N925WB1@aol.com > > Walt, > > That Piet is in the Virginia Aviation Musuem. I've never been there, but > here's the web address: http://www.vam.smv.org/ > The address for the plane info is: http://www.vam.smv.org/planedes. html > > The Wright replica being built on the Discovery show you saw is not the same > plane that will be attempting the flight at Kitty Hawk later this year. That > airplane is being built by Ken Hyde in Warrenton, VA at the Meadows private > airstrip. I used to fly in that area, and have visited his shop many times to > check out the various Wright airplanes he's building replicas of. Very cool. > You may remember a few months ago when he crashed a Model B into some trees. > This was a big scandal around the area, as he claimed to have only been > taxi-testing the aircraft, but local rumor was that he had actually been flying it > intentionally, but hadn't told the media or any of the sponsors to avoid > attention. That's just a rumor, I honestly can't say that it's true. > > Anyway, Ken Hyde's outfit is called the Wright Experience, and their website > is: http://www.wrightexperience.com/ > > -Wayne Bressler > > > In a message dated 9/17/2003 10:04:03 PM Central Daylight Time, > wbeevans@verizon.net writes: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" > > > > Was watching a show tonite about building the Wright Flyer, and saw a Piet > > hanging from the hanger ceiling behind. > > walt evans > > NX140DL > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:54 PM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:57 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash McGregor is PWG, southwest from downtown Waco. I used to fly there sometimes in a borrowed plane based there. The Prohibited area is always over Crawford, but it gets bigger when Bush shows up. There is a high-alert time when Airforce One is in transit, but it doesn't last long, maybe 20-30 minutes. They fly into TSTC (code - CNW) airport, and push it into a paint hangar that L3-Comm clears out for them when they're in town. Working at L3 can be a little challenging when this happens, but they do a lot of DOD work and they're paranoid about security anyhow. Once they post guard and the hangar doors are closed, the TFR still remains big, but they ease up on the local airspace a bit. Austin, Waco, and Dallas approaches all know about it, and try to warn anybody going near the area. In the air, they're your best source of information for this. Unfortunately, they don't typically give a lot of notice they're coming. Your best shot is to talk to one of the approaches just to make sure. Jim Ash At 9/18/2003 03:32 PM -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" > >Hopefully the Hurricane has him grounded for the weekend!! Georgie stay >away. PWG is about 11 miles from his ranch!! >Jon Botsford > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christian Bobka" >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear >questions > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" > > >Just hope the president does not decide to go to crawford that weekend. The >TFR would shut the flyin down. > >chris bobka >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ken Chambers" >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: McGregor fly in, seat, and landing gear questions > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" > > > > > I searched the archives but I can't find the location of that flyin near > > Waco Sept. 20. What's the name of the airport? Which highway is it on? > > > > Also, anyone have suggestions for bolting in the front seat? I thought > > two bolts in front and two on each side should hold it. > > > > I need to decide on the landing gear soon. I'm hoping to use > > differential braking for steering and wondering if motorcycle wheels > > with big disks might be the most effective brakes for this airplane. > > Does anyone have a setup like this? On the straight or split axle gear? > > If you had it to do over again, would you build the same type of landing > > gear? Same type of wheels and brakes? What if anything would you do > > differently? > > > > Thanks men. Couldn't do it without you. > > > > Ken in cool rainy Austin Texas, working in a one-bedroom apartment, > > finishing up the seats and control sticks. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:21 PM PST US From: NormDecou@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: NormDecou@aol.com Hi Barry, I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I finish the assembly. Norm and Adrienne Decou NormDecou@aol.com Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical before I glue the two fuselage halves together. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:16 PM PST US From: Kip & Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner At 5:33 PM -0400 09/16/03, Alex Sloan wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" > >Carl, >I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is >ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill >for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it >shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any >reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is >put in there. Any ideas on this? >Alex Alex, If they are the tabs I think they are, they aren't structural in any way. We had a brief discussion about them years ago & I think that the consensus was that you put a wood screw into them that go through to the bottom cross piece - for what reason I don't remember why. Kip Gardner (Getting the 1st bits of Isabel here in NE Ohio & worrying about all my friends back in my home town, Norfolk, VA) North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:13 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Norm, get yourself a set of Pony strap clamps.... maybe 3 or 4 of them. They came in EXTREMELY handy when I joined my fuselage sides. you can see some detail photos of of my ship during that process here: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: NormDecou@aol.com > > Hi Barry, > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I > finish the assembly. > Norm and Adrienne Decou > NormDecou@aol.com > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:45 PM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:45 PM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:42 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/18/03 1:52:03 PM Central Daylight Time, g.colwill3@verizon.net writes: << Just curious - did the aircraft that BHP built have rudders that extended below the tailpost? >> Good question. I never thought to look at the 'Last Original' at Brodhead. OK, I know somebody looked at it...please let us know. My rudder leading edge extends below the bottom of the fuse, and I don't like it. Think of all that extra drag ;) If the tail skid fell off, the rudder would probably be torn away...oh yeah, I have a tail wheel back there now !! Mike from down under - good eye !! Fix the dimension before you build it. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:27 PM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com Alex.....My Piet will have a model-A engine for power, at least at first. I think that later (in a couple of years) I'll change to a Corvair. I bought William Wynne's book now in order to start learning about the engine. At this point my knowlege of the engine is zero. Sorry I can't be of help...Carl V ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:12 PM PST US From: "Gary M. Colwill" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" I just want to let you know, Mr. Vegh, that I REALLY appreciate the pictures on your website. Pictures really are worth a thousand words and, since I'm new to woodworking, just staring at your work for awhile helps the words in the books I've bought become more clear. By the way, I have built one R/C aircraft (a lazy bee converted into a Gyrobee...fun!), and I can tell that your experience in that arena has probably had a direct influence on your building technique for the full-sized aircraft - the processes seem remarkably similar. Thanks again and keep them coming! Gary C Chino, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Norm, get yourself a set of Pony strap clamps.... maybe 3 or 4 of them. They came in EXTREMELY handy when I joined my fuselage sides. you can see some detail photos of of my ship during that process here: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: NormDecou@aol.com > > Hi Barry, > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I > finish the assembly. > Norm and Adrienne Decou > NormDecou@aol.com > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > >