---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/19/03: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:04 AM - Fin/Rudder Dimensions (rhartwig11@juno.com.FORGED_JUNO_RCVD.'From'.juno.com.does.not.match.'Received'.headers (2.8 points)) 2. 04:57 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight (Ed Grentzer) 3. 05:42 AM - Re: Engine mount (Alex Sloan) 4. 05:46 AM - Re: Engine mount (Alex Sloan) 5. 06:06 AM - NO TFR for Crawford and PWG this weekend!! (Jon Botsford) 6. 07:17 AM - Re: NO TFR for Crawford and PWG this weekend!! (Isablcorky@aol.com) 7. 07:29 AM - Re: rc planes (DJ Vegh) 8. 07:51 AM - second leaf spring is good (Michael D Cuy) 9. 07:55 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight () 10. 08:23 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight (del magsam) 11. 08:30 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs (Gadd, Skip) 12. 08:33 AM - Re: rc planes (Jack Textor) 13. 08:34 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight (Ed Grentzer) 14. 08:41 AM - Re: second leaf spring is good (Ed Grentzer) 15. 09:03 AM - Re: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs (Cy Galley) 16. 09:33 AM - my wife must think I'm nuts........ (Michael D Cuy) 17. 09:47 AM - Re: fuselage weight (Barry Davis) 18. 10:09 AM - tailwheel weight (DJ Vegh) 19. 11:39 AM - my piet pictures (Ken Hannan) 20. 11:52 AM - Re: my piet pictures (Ken Hannan) 21. 11:57 AM - Re: $$$$$$$ oops! (shad bell) 22. 05:11 PM - Re: my wife must think I'm nuts........ (Carl Loar) 23. 06:37 PM - Re: Fuselage Weight (Jack Phillips) 24. 07:41 PM - 5th Annual Allen Parish Fly-In (Tommy & Carolyn) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions From: rhartwig11@juno.com.FORGED_JUNO_RCVD.'From'.juno.com.does.not.match.'Received'.headers (2.8 points) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com FORGED_JUNO_RCVD (2.8 points) 'From' juno.com does not match 'Received' headers Mike, You have saved yourself some extra work by noticing this discrepancy in the empenage dimensions. Also, take into account that the rudder when installed with hinges is approx 1/2 in. from the fin and has a trapezoidal shape. I made my vertical fin and rudder to the dimensions on the plans. When I placed them on the fuselage I found that the rudder hung below the fuselage approximately 1-inch. I am now lining up the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the fuselage and installing the hinges. This leaves the rudder higher than the vertical fin, so I am adding a piece of spruce to the top of the vertical fin. Some builders just let the rudder hang below the fuselage and that also works fine. Dick Hartwig _____________________________ Time: 11:43:13 PM PST US From: Michael Green Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin/Rudder Dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Green Hi All, I'm new to the list, but have been monitoring for the last couple of months. My timber was shipped from the States today (being sent to Australia) so I'm eagerly going over the plans ready to swing into action when it arrives. I've decided to start with the tail group but noticed a descrepancy in the length of the leading edge of the rudder, compared to the fin, horizontal stab and tailpost. These three added togeather come up 1/2" short of the rudder leading edge. Is this normal ? Mike Green Romsey Australia ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:50 AM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail wheel, I took ACS at there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little disappointed, it is heavy and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made out of cast steel and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the solid 6" wheel with a light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork by grinding and drilling some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid of a couple of pounds. What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went with a homebuilders speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The single leaf seems kind of flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had the heart to add another 1 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening the extended part of the single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will take some of the leverage off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I don't need to add the second leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of the second leaf. Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong enough is not as easy as it sounds. Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane Isabel...Hopefully you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. >From: "" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: "" >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" > >Hey Ed, > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh 5.2 >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the >Heath >would be lighter. > >Chris T. >Sacramento, Ca > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) >last > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. >wing > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals >or > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear >6" > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a >little > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at >195lb. > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can >someone > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Barry Davis > > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework >with > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came >up > > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take >scales > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for >viewing by > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > > >. > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:01 AM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:29 AM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Carl, I am working on my engine mount so I can test run the Corvair soon as it is ready. Are you using the mounts as shown in the plans? I am ready to drill for the steel parts to bolt them to the fuselage and on the bottom pieces it shows bending the tab so it will lay on the firewal. I cannot find any reference to whether or not any hole is drill in the tab and if so, what is put in there. Any ideas on this? Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > Hey Alex.....Good going on your Piet progress...I didn't realize you were > that far along! I'm setting up my Piet for the Model-A which I already have > sitting in its' mounts. All structure is finished and the fabric is on the tail > feathers, ailerons and the bottom of the left wing. The more I talk to Mark > Langford, the more interested I get in the Corvair engine. I may change engines > after a couple of years experience with the Ford. I've ordered Wm. Wynne's > expensive little book. I am particularly interested right now in where the engine CG > winds up with the engine outfitted just as you have it. I think Wm. Wynne's > Piet was one of the best looking Piets I've seen. If you get over in this > direction, give me a call so I can give you directions to my house...It's real > easy. Keep us posted...Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:47 AM PST US From: "Jon Botsford" Subject: Pietenpol-List: NO TFR for Crawford and PWG this weekend!! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" This statement was in AOPA's newsletter this morning. George will NOT be at Crawford this weekend! Y'all come to the Low & Slow Fly-In at McGregor Executive Airport, McGregor, Texxas (Waco area) if you can. If not, we will be thinking of you while we look at those Piets and other Low & Slow aircraft while eating that good fish. Jon Botsford A LOOK AT UPCOMING TFRs With the presidential campaign season well under way, AOPA warns pilots to be especially mindful of 60-nautical-mile-diameter presidential and smaller vice presidential movement temporary flight restrictions (TFRs). Based on AOPA's best information, President Bush will be at his retreat at Camp David, Maryland, through Sunday, September 21. He is slated to be in New York City, September 23 through 24, and back at Camp David, September 26 through 27. Check AOPA Online for the latest on these restrictions. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:00 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NO TFR for Crawford and PWG this weekend!! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Jon, Down to the wire. My IP declined so I'm left without authority to fly to the fly in. Consequencies would be too severe if I risked a solo flight over there today and return Sat. I've waited patiently this long and am "chicken" to take the risk. Worse thing is I went back on my word which I value highly. Guess I'll just have to settle with this ole La speckled trout almandine and shrimp creole and dream of your bar b q catfishes. Please try and keep me as a friend. Corky in beautiful VFR La ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:48 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rc planes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Thanks Gary. speaking of RC planes, I started a new RC project 3 weeks ago. A 25% scale '46 Taylorcraft BC12D. 109" wingspan (9 feet!) powered by a 26cc weed wacker engine with 18" prop. About 70% complete and hoping to fly it within 3 or 4 weeks. Just need to finish the left wing panel and then cover it. pics, if anyone is interested, can be seen here: http://www.imagedv.com/taylorcraft/ DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary M. Colwill" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary M. Colwill" > > I just want to let you know, Mr. Vegh, that I REALLY appreciate the pictures > on your website. Pictures really are worth a thousand words and, since I'm > new to woodworking, just staring at your work for awhile helps the words in > the books I've bought become more clear. > > By the way, I have built one R/C aircraft (a lazy bee converted into a > Gyrobee...fun!), and I can tell that your experience in that arena has > probably had a direct influence on your building technique for the > full-sized aircraft - the processes seem remarkably similar. > > Thanks again and keep them coming! > > Gary C > Chino, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > Norm, > > get yourself a set of Pony strap clamps.... maybe 3 or 4 of them. They came > in EXTREMELY handy when I joined my fuselage sides. > > you can see some detail photos of of my ship during that process here: > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-24-02.htm > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: NormDecou@aol.com > > > > Hi Barry, > > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an > extended > > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when > I > > finish the assembly. > > Norm and Adrienne Decou > > NormDecou@aol.com > > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and > symmetrical > > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:07 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: second leaf spring is good --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Ed G. and others using leaf springs/tailwheels on your Piets. With the all aluminum homebuilder's special tailwheel I have from aircraft spruce I tried on leaf at first and it was too weak and slapped around too much back there. (the steering cables slapped the bottom of the belly.) Our IA had used leaf and he reasoned that should the first (longer) spring ever break you have the second leaf to help keep your tailwheel from bashing up into your rudder. The second leaf was re-shaped (cold in a big old vise like Bingelis tells how) and drilled (with a masonry drill bit--like the Bingelis books show--very easy) and made a great improvement over the ground ride. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:37 AM PST US From: "" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard and find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then follow the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. Would you mind telling me how long the Homebuilt special is and approximate angle of the bend. I may even try to build my own tail wheel (not fully castoring (is that a word?)) but I'm not sure about this as I want it to be as light as possible. Wish Matco made a 4" tail wheel assembly. By the way Mike Cuy had to add another leaf to his homebuilders special too. He found the single leaf to soft. If you shorten the spring you will make it stiffer and raise the risk of breaking you tail wheel spring. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting Ed Grentzer : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" > > > Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail wheel, I took ACS at > there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little disappointed, it is heavy > > and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made out of cast steel > and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the solid 6" wheel with a > light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork by grinding and drilling > some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid of a couple of pounds. > What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went with a homebuilders > speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The single leaf seems kind of > flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had the heart to add another 1 > > 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening the extended part of the > single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will take some of the leverage > > off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I don't need to add the second > leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of the second leaf. > Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong enough is not as easy as it > sounds. > Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane Isabel...Hopefully > you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. > > > >From: "" > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >To: "" > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" > > > >Hey Ed, > > > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh 5.2 > >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the > >Heath > >would be lighter. > > > >Chris T. > >Sacramento, Ca > > > > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) > >last > > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, aux. > >wing > > > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder pedals > >or > > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and Goodyear > >6" > > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a > >little > > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at > >195lb. > > > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, aluminum > > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No instruments, > > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can > >someone > > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: Barry Davis > > > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the framework > >with > > > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question came > >up > > > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take > >scales > > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on Tuesday. > > > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for > >viewing by > > > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more > > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:36 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam take a look at the sonex tailwheel system. a titanium rod with wheel clevis on the end. super light and may improve handling performance Del --- wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" > > > Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going > to the auto junk yard and > find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by > 1/4 inch thick then follow > the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my > own. Would you mind telling > me how long the Homebuilt special is and approximate > angle of the bend. I may > even try to build my own tail wheel (not fully > castoring (is that a word?)) but > I'm not sure about this as I want it to be as light > as possible. Wish Matco > made a 4" tail wheel assembly. > > By the way Mike Cuy had to add another leaf to his > homebuilders special too. > He found the single leaf to soft. If you shorten > the spring you will make it > stiffer and raise the risk of breaking you tail > wheel spring. > > Chris T. > Sacramento, Ca > > > Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed > Grentzer" > > > > > > Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail > wheel, I took ACS at > > there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little > disappointed, it is heavy > > > > and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made > out of cast steel > > and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the > solid 6" wheel with a > > light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork > by grinding and drilling > > some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid > of a couple of pounds. > > What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went > with a homebuilders > > speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The > single leaf seems kind of > > flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had > the heart to add another 1 > > > > 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening > the extended part of the > > single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will > take some of the leverage > > > > off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I > don't need to add the second > > leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of > the second leaf. > > Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong > enough is not as easy as it > > sounds. > > Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with > hurricane Isabel...Hopefully > > you're far enough out of her path........Good luck > Buddy.......Ed G. > > > > > > >From: "" > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >To: "" > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" > > > > > > >Hey Ed, > > > > > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS > says it should weigh 5.2 > > >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 > pounds. I would think the > > >Heath > > >would be lighter. > > > > > >Chris T. > > >Sacramento, Ca > > > > > > > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed > Grentzer" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I > weighed my Piet ( not GN-1) > > >last > > > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's > seat belt and harness, aux. > > >wing > > > > > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor > mount but no rudder pedals > > >or > > > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a > Heath tailwheel and Goodyear > > >6" > > > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed > mount for my Franklin ( a > > >little > > > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" > > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ > Vegh" > > > > > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the > link below) weighs in at > > >195lb. > > > > > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 > landing gear, aluminum > > > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco > tailwheel. No instruments, > > > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that > state of completion > > > > > > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it > should be or not.... can > > >someone > > > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Barry Davis > > > > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry > Davis" > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood > fuselage? > > > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail > feathers, just the framework > > >with > > > > > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but > without seats. > > > > > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up > now and the question came > > >up > > > > >about weight. Our regular work night is > Monday and we plan to take > > >scales > > > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post > the weight on Tuesday. > > > > > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known > viruses and made safe for > > >viewing by > > > > > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web > hosting provider. For more > > > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, > visit > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low > as $29.95. > > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > === message truncated === ===== Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:24 AM PST US From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs There was some talk on this list a few months ago that Corvette used a fiberglass leaf spring for some years. I did a little internet searching and was not able to find any information. Does anyone know about these? Seems they may be just the thing for a Piet. Skip --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" - >Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard and >find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then follow >the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:18 AM PST US From: "Jack Textor" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rc planes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" DJ Sounds like a great model. If I could offer a caution....I built a Senior Telemaster, which was about the same size. The first flight was almost its last. With the large wing, it had warped just a little bit. When I got it down I could barley see the warp. Check yours closely and good luck! PS I have your Piet picture set as my background, nice color scheme! Jack RV8 tail and wings done Pietenpol plans, still thinking about starting ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:17 AM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Hi Chris...I know what you mean about shortening the spring and the chances of breakage.....I know I'm going to have to go with two leaves or is it leafs???? I just hate to admit it to myself. The homebuilders special is 15" long by 1/4" X 1 1/2" and has a about a 40 degree bend right in the middle. It would be really easy to copy following Tony B's book and mine looks like it belongs on a Piet just the way it came from ACS. Several years ago at one of Sun & Fun's booths I saw several small used aluminum tailwheel forks that would be perfect for a Piet if they were strong enough. I have no Idea what they came off of but I wish I had bought one just to try, They were really light.... I'm going to seriously look for one this year. Anyone out there know what they might have come off of ? Ed G. >From: "" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: "" >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:53:41 -0500 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" > >Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard >and >find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then >follow >the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. Would you mind >telling >me how long the Homebuilt special is and approximate angle of the bend. I >may >even try to build my own tail wheel (not fully castoring (is that a word?)) >but >I'm not sure about this as I want it to be as light as possible. Wish >Matco >made a 4" tail wheel assembly. > >By the way Mike Cuy had to add another leaf to his homebuilders special >too. >He found the single leaf to soft. If you shorten the spring you will make >it >stiffer and raise the risk of breaking you tail wheel spring. > >Chris T. >Sacramento, Ca > > > Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" > > > > > > > Hi Chris...I never really weighed my Heath Tail wheel, I took ACS at > > there word of 5.2#. When it arrived I was a little disappointed, it is >heavy > > > > and way overkill for a Piet. I think it is made out of cast steel > > and it is bullet proof. My plan is to replace the solid 6" wheel with a > > light weight 4" one and lighten the frame and fork by grinding and >drilling > > some lightening holes. I should be able to get rid of a couple of >pounds. > > What did you use for a tailwheel spring?? I went with a homebuilders > > speacial from ACS like Mike Cuy's set up, The single leaf seems kind of > > flimsey so I bought a second leaf but haven't had the heart to add >another 1 > > > > 1/2 pounds back there. I'm going to try shortening the extended part of >the > > single leaf that the wheel attaches to. That will take some of the >leverage > > > > off of it and maybe stiffen it up enough so I don't need to add the >second > > leaf but then I won't have the dampening affect of the second leaf. > > Jeeeeesh....light as possible and still strong enough is not as easy as >it > > sounds. > > Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane >Isabel...Hopefully > > you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. > > > > > > >From: "" > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >To: "" > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:32:49 -0500 > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "" > > > > > >Hey Ed, > > > > > >What is the actual weight of your tail wheel? ACS says it should weigh >5.2 > > >pounds which is heavier then the Matco at 5 pounds. I would think the > > >Heath > > >would be lighter. > > > > > >Chris T. > > >Sacramento, Ca > > > > > > > > >Quoting Ed Grentzer : > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like we're pretty close DJ...I weighed my Piet ( not >GN-1) > > >last > > > > week. it's just like yours but with pilot's seat belt and harness, >aux. > > >wing > > > > > > > > tank, all instruments, trim system and motor mount but no rudder >pedals > > >or > > > > fire wall mine came in at 212#. Mine has a Heath tailwheel and >Goodyear > > >6" > > > > wheels and brakes the motor mount is a bed mount for my Franklin ( a > > >little > > > > heavier than a Continental mount). Ed G. > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "DJ Vegh" > > > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:03 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > > > > > > > > >My 90% complete fuselage (as shown in the link below) weighs in at > > >195lb. > > > > > > > > >That includes controls and rudder pedals, J-3 landing gear, >aluminum > > > > >cabanes, Grove wheels and brakes and Matco tailwheel. No >instruments, > > > > >fuel tank, seat belts, or control cables. > > > > > > > > > >here's the link that shows the plane in that state of completion > > > > > > > > > >http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/07-19-03.htm > > > > > > > > > >I'm not sure if I'm on par with what it should be or not.... can > > >someone > > > > >else chime in with some fuse numbers?? > > > > > > > > > >DJ Vegh > > > > >N74DV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Barry Davis > > > > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > > > > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone have the weight of a bare wood fuselage? > > > > >Without fittings and landing gear or tail feathers, just the >framework > > >with > > > > > > > > >all the plywood and gussets installed, but without seats. > > > > > > > > > >We have our second steel fuselage welded up now and the question >came > > >up > > > > >about weight. Our regular work night is Monday and we plan to take > > >scales > > > > >and weigh up a 4130 steel fuselage. I'll post the weight on >Tuesday. > > > > > > > > > >Barry Davis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for > > >viewing by > > > > > > > > >Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For >more > > > > >information on an anti-virus email solution, visit > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:15 AM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: second leaf spring is good --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Thanks for the input about your experience with the tail spring Mike. I guess that does it....I'll go home and put the second leaf on it. When I weighed my Fuselage last week I set the second leaf on top the tail so I guess I knew deep down that it was going to end up on the plane. Ed G. >From: Michael D Cuy >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: second leaf spring is good >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:48:02 -0400 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > >Ed G. and others using leaf springs/tailwheels on your Piets. With the >all aluminum homebuilder's special tailwheel I have from aircraft spruce I >tried on leaf at first and it was too weak and slapped around too much back >there. (the steering cables slapped the bottom of the belly.) Our IA had >used leaf and he reasoned that should the first (longer) spring ever break >you have the second leaf to help keep your tailwheel from bashing up into >your rudder. The second leaf was re-shaped (cold in a big old vise like >Bingelis tells how) and drilled (with a masonry drill bit--like the >Bingelis books show--very easy) and made a great improvement over the >ground ride. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:53 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" My 93 Buick Regal uses a fibre-glass arch for the rear spring. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight/leaf springs > There was some talk on this list a few months ago that Corvette used a > fiberglass leaf spring for some years. > I did a little internet searching and was not able to find any information. > Does anyone know about these? Seems they may be just the thing for a Piet. > Skip > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" > > - > >Ed, For my tail wheel spring I am planing on going to the auto junk yard > and > >find two leaf springs about 1 1/2 inches wide by 1/4 inch thick then > follow > >the instructions in Tony Bengalis book to build my own. > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:05 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: my wife must think I'm nuts........ --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Heading off to drive to Chicago at 2 in the morning tomorrow to get there in time to watch the Wright Redux http://www.wrightredux.orgreplica flyer fly in front of the Science Museum. Those boys are a grass-roots bunch. 16 of them. They've flown it several times already. Let's see, 12 hours of driving to see maybe 12 seconds of flying ? I'm not crazy guys, am I ??? Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:31 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" Thanks Norm I was beginning to think that no one had ever weighed their fuselage in the boat stage. I'll post the steel weight on Tuesday. BED ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: NormDecou@aol.com > > Hi Barry, > I am just getting ready to join my two fuselage sides now. It is an extended > fuselage. If you like I will e-mail you the weight in a week or two when I > finish the assembly. > Norm and Adrienne Decou > NormDecou@aol.com > Just in the process of making sure that everything is square and symmetrical > before I glue the two fuselage halves together. > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:37 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I have a Matco unit. It's nice but feels like it's heavier than it needs to be. I've thought about doing some lightening mods to it. I'd imagine it could be milled and at least a 1/2 lb or more shaved. 1/2 lb at the tail means 2lb saved at the nose! DJ = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:00 AM PST US From: "Ken Hannan" Subject: Pietenpol-List: my piet pictures --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Hannan" I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID147 Ken Hannan Temecula, CA ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:22 AM PST US From: "Ken Hannan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my piet pictures --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Hannan" http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=147 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hannan" Subject: Pietenpol-List: my piet pictures > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Hannan" > > I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered. > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID147 > > Ken Hannan > Temecula, CA > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:21 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: $$$$$$$ oops! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: shad bell hello list i am writing this to hopefully save someone using vi kepplers prop hub a few hundred dollars. my father took his crank shaft and prop hub to a machine shop to have the prop shaft threaded for the crank and prop hub nut, it got expensive when the machinist, who in all fairness was going by bernies blue print bored the hole in the hub out to 1.5in. this in turn bored right into the counterbores for the bolts that hold the hub to the crankshaft. so make sure if you drop off your parts at a shop tell them NOT to bore the center hole of the hub to the specs of 1.5 shown on the plans. p.s. does anyone know of another one of Vi Keplers prop hubs for sale???? Shad Bell __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:08 PM PST US From: "Carl Loar" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my wife must think I'm nuts........ --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" Yea Mike ,,, Your wife is right ,, you are crazy,,, but aren't we all? Sounds like a worthwhile trip to me. Have fun. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: my wife must think I'm nuts........ > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Heading off to drive to Chicago at 2 in the morning tomorrow to get there > in time to watch the Wright Redux http://www.wrightredux.orgreplica flyer > fly in front of the Science Museum. Those boys are a grass-roots > bunch. 16 of them. They've flown it several times already. Let's see, > 12 hours of driving to see maybe 12 seconds of flying ? I'm not crazy guys, > am I ??? > > Mike C. > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:14 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Thanks, Ed. Isabel wasn't too bad here. The eye went east of us. Highest winds we had were about 65 kts. and we got about 2" of rain (driest hurricane I've ever been through). I had one 12" pine come down across my driveway (took out a section of the fence around my pasture, too), but other than that I had no damage. Good news was, I got to get off work for it. The bad news was, I lost power so couldn't work on the Pietenpol too easily. Jack Phillips Drying out in Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Jack Phillips....Hope you're doing OKay with hurricane Isabel...Hopefully you're far enough out of her path........Good luck Buddy.......Ed G. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:05 PM PST US From: "Tommy & Carolyn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: 5th Annual Allen Parish Fly-In --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Tommy & Carolyn" Just a reminder, the 5th annual Allen Parish Fly-In Oakdale, LA is the last weekend of this month, that's the 26, 27 & 28. It's grown every year to over 200 aircraft, a mixed bag, something for everyone. Camping, food & Cajun music rounds it out, your sure to have a good time. Contact Joel Johnson 318-215-0090 or 337-639-4328.