Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:51 AM - leaf springs (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 07:50 AM - two leafs saved me (Michael D Cuy)
3. 08:17 AM - Re: leaf springs (Gadd, Skip)
4. 08:21 AM - Re: two leafs saved me (Ken Hannan)
5. 09:30 AM - Re: two leafs saved me (Michael D Cuy)
6. 10:23 AM - Re: two leafs saved me (JamesJboyer@aol.com)
7. 10:42 AM - Re: two leafs saved me (Michael D Cuy)
8. 10:48 AM - Re: two leafs saved me (JamesJboyer@aol.com)
9. 10:52 AM - Re: my piet pictures (Gadd, Skip)
10. 11:22 AM - good for a laugh (Bill Church)
11. 11:59 AM - Re: my piet pictures (Ken Hannan)
12. 01:11 PM - Re: my piet pictures (Jack Textor)
13. 03:48 PM - Re: my piet pictures (Cinda Gadd)
14. 04:24 PM - Tail weight (Isablcorky@aol.com)
15. 07:38 PM - Re: Tail weight (del magsam)
16. 08:49 PM - Re: Tail weight (Gnwac@cs.com)
17. 09:12 PM - Tailwheels (John Dilatush)
18. 09:23 PM - Re: Tailwheels & Brakes (Peter W Johnson)
19. 11:24 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Skip wrote-
>I will look into the Buick Regal arch springs the next time I get
>to the auto recycle yard.
From what understand, the Chevy Astro Van also has fiberglass leaf springs
on the rear suspension. Not sure what years, but I believe it's the earlier
ones. If you go snooping in the bone yard, see if they have an Astra Van
and see if this is correct. Use extreme caution when handling these springs
if you plan to cut them down or sand them to a different profile, as the
glass fibers can really get you.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local
service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | two leafs saved me |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Guys-- remember when we were talking about using two leaf springs rather
than one for a 'standard' type tailwheel installation ? Turns out that
second leaf (the shorter one on top of the longer main leaf) kept my
tailwheel from bashing up into the bottom of my rudder last Sunday eve.
while landing on the grass at our airport. There was no problem with my
spring or installation but what caused this to happened is that I drilled
four holes in the main spring to bolt to the tail and only used 3 of the 4
holes. The 4th hole has just been along for the ride. That fourth hole
was near the spot where the bend starts to curve downward so it must have
seen some minimal flexing. No harm done, thank goodness. The new spring
is here and I will drill it out (w/ a regular masonry drill bit) for two
holes this time. (three was a bit much and I don't know what the heck I
was thinking when I drilled four originally)
getting nippy in Ohio already,
Mike C.
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
Oscar,
Thanks for the tip, I heard off line that many GM cars have fiberglass
springs, including the Astro van. I guess since we are talking about fibers
not vapors the paper mask would be the thing to use.
Skip
> Use extreme caution when handling these springs
>if you plan to cut them down or sand them to a different profile, as the
>glass fibers can really get you.
>Oscar Zuniga
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: two leafs saved me |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc@verizon.net>
Michael, what diameter are the rims that you used on your spoke wheels ? I
am ready to send my hubs to Buchanan's.
Thanks
Ken Hannan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: two leafs saved me
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> Guys-- remember when we were talking about using two leaf springs rather
> than one for a 'standard' type tailwheel installation ? Turns out that
> second leaf (the shorter one on top of the longer main leaf) kept my
> tailwheel from bashing up into the bottom of my rudder last Sunday eve.
> while landing on the grass at our airport. There was no problem with my
> spring or installation but what caused this to happened is that I drilled
> four holes in the main spring to bolt to the tail and only used 3 of the 4
> holes. The 4th hole has just been along for the ride. That fourth hole
> was near the spot where the bend starts to curve downward so it must have
> seen some minimal flexing. No harm done, thank goodness. The new spring
> is here and I will drill it out (w/ a regular masonry drill bit) for two
> holes this time. (three was a bit much and I don't know what the heck I
> was thinking when I drilled four originally)
>
> getting nippy in Ohio already,
>
> Mike C.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: two leafs saved me |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
At 08:21 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc@verizon.net>
>
>Michael, what diameter are the rims that you used on your spoke wheels ? I
>am ready to send my hubs to Buchanan's.
>19"
>Thanks
>
>Ken Hannan
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: two leafs saved me
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
><Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
> >
> > Guys-- remember when we were talking about using two leaf springs rather
> > than one for a 'standard' type tailwheel installation ? Turns out that
> > second leaf (the shorter one on top of the longer main leaf) kept my
> > tailwheel from bashing up into the bottom of my rudder last Sunday eve.
> > while landing on the grass at our airport. There was no problem with my
> > spring or installation but what caused this to happened is that I drilled
> > four holes in the main spring to bolt to the tail and only used 3 of the 4
> > holes. The 4th hole has just been along for the ride. That fourth hole
> > was near the spot where the bend starts to curve downward so it must have
> > seen some minimal flexing. No harm done, thank goodness. The new spring
> > is here and I will drill it out (w/ a regular masonry drill bit) for two
> > holes this time. (three was a bit much and I don't know what the heck I
> > was thinking when I drilled four originally)
> >
> > getting nippy in Ohio already,
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: two leafs saved me |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: JamesJboyer@aol.com
HI Mike,
I just saw a metal fuselage built by Scott Liefeld's dad (I think like 20
years ago). He has only one tail leaf spring and said it has worked very well
since the plane was first built. It looks about the same size as the larger one
of the two spring 6" tail wheel assembly I got from AS&S. He also has a 6"
tailwheel, but said it has an RV 6 yoke- bracket that fastens it to the spring.
It
seems pretty springy but he said it has never hit the rudder on landing. I
was really curious about that, which your comment in this message reminded me.
His Piet's tail does sit lower but the elevators don't hit the ground.
Anyway, just another curiosity.
Cheers, Jim
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: two leafs saved me |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Jim-- that springy-ness is what caused me to go to the 2-leaf setup in
addition to the fact that I'm fat. Ok, not fat but larger than I should be
and that causes some pressure back there. Anyway, the Scott L. setup
sounds good but if that thing ever breaks he'll have some wood and fabric
repairs. (not to mention the possible groundloop;) Yikes ! It does
sound like tho that his spring is pretty substantial if it's one of two
that are used on the RV-6.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: two leafs saved me |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: JamesJboyer@aol.com
Hi Mike,
I know I worried about that spring breaking and leaving him with substantial
repairs on the fuselage as well as the tail. I did take your suggestion though
and only drilled for two mounting bolts.
cheers, Jim
Do Not Archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | my piet pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
Ken,
Nice job on the fuselage, I noticed you changed the diagonal in the back pit
to be the same as the 1934 plans. Are you going to add the large gussets at
the lower longeron aft of the back pit and at the tail post, also 1934 mods?
Skip
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=147
----- Original Message -----
> I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of
> the
1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered.
> Ken Hannan
> Temecula, CA
Message 10
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| Subject: | good for a laugh |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Got a copy of this emailed to me. Not really anything to do with pietenpols,
but good for a laugh. Do not archive.
And you thought doctors were scary....
After every flight, pilots fill out a form called a gripe sheet,
which conveys to the mechanics problems encountered with the aircraft
during the flight that need repair or correction. The mechanics read and
correct the problem, and then respond in writing on the lower half of the
form what remedial action was taken, and the pilot reviews the gripe sheets
before the next flight.
Never let it be said that ground crews and engineers lack a sense
of humour. Here are some actual logged maintenance complaints and problems
as submitted by Qantas pilots and the solution recorded by maintenance
engineers.
accident.
(P = The problem logged by the pilot.)
(S = The solution and action taken by the engineers.)
P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.
P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.
P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.
P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on back-order.
P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute
descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.
P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.
P: DME volume unbelievably loud
S: DME volume set to more believable level.
P: Friction locks causes throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're there for.
P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.
P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.
P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.
P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.
P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.
P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.
P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget
pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2448.0">
good for a laugh
Got a copy of this emailed to me. Not really anything to do with pietenpols, but
good for a laugh. Do not archive.
And you thought doctors were scary....
After every flight, pilots fill out a form called a gripe sheet,
which conveys to the mechanics problems encountered with the aircraft
during the flight that need repair or correction. The mechanics read and
correct the problem, and then respond in writing on the lower half of the
form what remedial action was taken, and the pilot reviews the gripe sheets
before the next flight.
Never let it be said that ground crews and engineers lack a sense
of humour. Here are some actual logged maintenance complaints and problems
as submitted by Qantas pilots and the solution recorded by maintenance
engineers.
By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never had an
accident.
(P The problem logged by the pilot.)
(S The solution and action taken by the engineers.)
P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.
P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.
P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.
P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on back-order.
P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute
descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.
P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.
P: DME volume unbelievably loud
S: DME volume set to more believable level.
P: Friction locks causes throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're there for.
P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.
P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.
P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.
P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.
P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.
P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.
P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget
pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: my piet pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Hannan" <isp.inc@verizon.net>
Skip,
When I started this project back in 1995 the only plans I knew of
were the ones from the 1932 Flying and glider Manual. and now thanks to
Dick Staley I have the updated plans and have gone back in and added the
gussets and added the ash boards to help in the beefing up the landing gear
attachment points. I will be using the wooden landing gear with the large
spoke wheels and a Ford model A.the elevator and the rudder and the wing
ribs are all from the Flying and glider Manual, if you can think of any
other place that needs more beefing up let me know.
Thanks
Ken Hannan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: my piet pictures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
>
> Ken,
> Nice job on the fuselage, I noticed you changed the diagonal in the back
pit
> to be the same as the 1934 plans. Are you going to add the large gussets
at
> the lower longeron aft of the back pit and at the tail post, also 1934
mods?
> Skip
>
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=147
> ----- Original Message -----
> > I posted some pictures of my Peit project, I used the planes out of
> > the
> 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and it will be A powered.
> > Ken Hannan
> > Temecula, CA
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | my piet pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" <jack@personnelincorporated.com>
Ken and Skip,
I had a plans question, it sounds like you guys know your stuff. I have
BP's plans, with the updated longer fuselage. I've noticed lots of
differences in the pictures and commentary here on the web. Are the plans I
have the most current? Should I utilize its rib design, or is there a
better design? As you can tell I'm pretty new to this stuff. Are there any
Piet builders close to Des Moines, IA?
Thanks!
Jack
Message 13
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| Subject: | my piet pictures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
Jack,
There 3 basic Piet plans, there is also the Grega
GN-1.
The Piet plans can be broken down as;
1 Regular(1934 Orren Hoopman)
2 The 1932 Flyer and Glider plans about 2"
shorter than regular.
3 The Corvair supplement to the regular plans, this
is what most people build now because people are bigger now and the longer
fuselage works good with Continental 65 power. These plans are about
14" longer and known as the long fuselage.
The rib full size plan is fine, just make sure if
you build over the photocopy that the distance between spars is the same as the
plans call out.
Have fun building,
Hope this helps.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" jack@personnelincorporated.com
Ken and Skip,
I had a plans question, it sounds like you guys know your
stuff. I have
BP's plans, with the updated longer fuselage. I've noticed lots
of
differences in the pictures and commentary here on the web. Are
the plans I
have the most current? Should I utilize its rib
design, or is there a
better design? As you can tell I'm pretty new to this
stuff. Are there any
Piet builders close to Des Moines, IA?
Thanks!
Jack
Skip Cinda Gadd
--- csfog@earthlink.net
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Pieters,
Am beginning to get weight concious as Repiet progresses. I weighed my
complete tailwheel and the two 1 1/2 inch flat springs (long one is front center
leaf from T model Ford) and it says 8 pounds. Kinda heavy huh?
Give me some weights of yours.
Corky in beautiful La sleeping under a blanket these last few nights with his
yankee bride
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
This is how I feel, people are making their tailwheels way too heavy, take a look
at the sonex tailwheel, and copy it, it is really good, light and strong, ask
me how I know. It also handles way better than any other tailwheel airplane.
Del
Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com
Pieters,
Am beginning to get weight concious as Repiet progresses. I weighed my
complete tailwheel and the two 1 1/2 inch flat springs (long one is front center
leaf from T model Ford) and it says 8 pounds. Kinda heavy huh?
Give me some weights of yours.
Corky in beautiful La sleeping under a blanket these last few nights with his
yankee bride
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Message 16
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gnwac@cs.com
Guy's,
As a new Piet builder, is there a reason in the community why many don't use
the plans design tail wheel spring method and rather go with the leaf and
steerable tail wheel?
Thanks, Greg Menoche
Message 17
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
Pieters,
I have been following the discussion re: tailwheels and can't understand why one
should change the basic design of the original Pietenpol tail SKID.
Just add a 5" wheel from Wicks to the design and go with it. It is light, as I
remember only about 7 lbs, and will take a heck of a lot of abuse, believe me!
My landings are much less than perfect, I have departed the runway a couple
of times, and landed off the airport completely, in a field across the furrows.
(the field was not plowed recently, but rather a couple of years before so
the furrows were somewhat smoothed out). The triangular design has taken some
extreme side loadings and stood up well.
Go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html where Oscar Zuniga posted some information on my tailwheel installation.
I will be glad to answer any questions you may have about the design/installation.
Hope this helps,
John
Message 18
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| Subject: | Tailwheels & Brakes |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@yahoo.com>
John,
Beautiful stuff.......
Have you got any pictures of your mechanical brake system at the rudder end?
Looks very good and simple!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://cpc-world.cable.nu
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Dilatush
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheels
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush"
--> <dilatush@amigo.net>
Pieters,
I have been following the discussion re: tailwheels and can't understand why
one should change the basic design of the original Pietenpol tail SKID.
Just add a 5" wheel from Wicks to the design and go with it. It is light,
as I remember only about 7 lbs, and will take a heck of a lot of abuse,
believe me! My landings are much less than perfect, I have departed the
runway a couple of times, and landed off the airport completely, in a field
across the furrows. (the field was not plowed recently, but rather a couple
of years before so the furrows were somewhat smoothed out). The triangular
design has taken some extreme side loadings and stood up well.
Go to http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html where Oscar Zuniga
posted some information on my tailwheel installation.
I will be glad to answer any questions you may have about the
design/installation.
Hope this helps,
John
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
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