---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/23/03: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: retirement site (Dean Pacetti) 2. 06:04 AM - Re: retirement site (John and Susan) 3. 06:22 AM - Re: retirement site (Isablcorky@aol.com) 4. 10:00 AM - Re: retirement site (Gary Gower) 5. 10:12 AM - Re: retirement site (Isablcorky@aol.com) 6. 10:25 AM - Spar Question - Solid Spruce vs Built Up (Robert Haines) 7. 12:13 PM - Re: cork fuel indicator (rambog@erols.com) 8. 12:57 PM - Re: cork fuel indicator (Isablcorky@aol.com) 9. 01:12 PM - Marathon or Shell ? (Michael D Cuy) 10. 01:24 PM - Re: cork fuel indicator (Jim Markle) 11. 01:56 PM - Re: Marathon or Shell ? (Mike) 12. 03:06 PM - Re: Marathon or Shell ? (catdesign@intergate.com) 13. 03:20 PM - Re: Marathon or Shell ? (Jim Ash) 14. 03:22 PM - landing gear springs/was weight loss program (Oscar Zuniga) 15. 07:49 PM - Re: Marathon or Shell ? (w b evans) 16. 08:48 PM - Re: Marathon or Shell ? (John Ford) 17. 08:56 PM - Re: Marathon or Shell ? (JamesJboyer@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:00 AM PST US From: Dean Pacetti Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: retirement site --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dean Pacetti Did you look at the Little River Airport community just west of Lake City, Fl. Have several friends there, real nice place with two grass runways. Dean LAWRENCE WILLIAMS wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Fellow Pieters- I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to find like-minded people would be on this list so......... Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An airport with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having a hangar there and living nearby? We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe we didn't look in the right places or ask the right people. Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A decent climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too near, and no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to tolerate. Candidates???? Larry --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:45 AM PST US From: "John and Susan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: retirement site --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John and Susan" Hi Larry , This area is terrific, ask your dad about it, he has been here-- John ----- Original Message ----- From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: retirement site > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" > > Fellow Pieters- > > I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding just where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place to find like-minded people would be on this list so......... > > > Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An airport with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having a hangar there and living nearby? > > We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL but didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would. Maybe we didn't look in the right places or ask the right people. > > Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A decent climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too near, and no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to tolerate. > > Candidates???? > > Larry > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:26 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: retirement site --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Larry, I have 41CC hangared at Bluebird Hill 5F5, a turf strip just south of Shreveport. It is an uncrowded, residental airport with some room for expansion owned by two retired colonels from Barksdale AFB. Prices, I think, are well below some I've heard. May I suggest you call Mr. Hugh Hunton 318 925 2302 for particuliars Corky in beautiful, low taxed, all year flying, land of good food, 5 river boat casinos and 1 race track, Loooooooooooooooozianna. And 1 Piet ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:56 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: retirement site --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower Larry, 3 years ago I visited the airfield where Mr Leonard Milholland lives. Is in Brookshire, TX near Houston on the Freeway to Sn Antonio. When I visited him I saw several lots empty... yo might ask him, probably there is some land available... The weather is not so cold, the landscape a little flat for what I am used to, but you could like it... His web page is http://www.betterhalfvw.com An airview of the airfield is in: http://www.betterhalfvw.com/sportfly.jpg His home/hangar is in the first one on the lower left corner, with a tree in front (where I parked my VW bus). In a few years I will do the same here... I already have a Motorhome with full hook ups in the back of my hangar, I spend there as much weekends as I am alowded by my wife and kids :-) Two more to go to college and Im FREEEEE!!! Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico Future Chapala Lake resident... --- Jim Markle wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" > > > There are several excellent airport communities (with hangers/homes > available) in the Dallas area..... > > Come on out some weekend (we have a spare bedroom) and we can do the > tour....... > > Jim in Plano > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" > To: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: retirement site > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" > > > > > Fellow Pieters- > > > > I've got to retire in three years and am in the throes of deciding > just > where a good place to live might be. It occurred to me that the place > to > find like-minded people would be on this list so......... > > > > > > Does anybody know of an airport community with lots available? An > airport > with an existing house/hangar available? How about just a really nice > airport that would be enough of a magnet that I wouldn't mind having > a > hangar there and living nearby? > > > > We spent several days in the central and northern portions of FL > but > didn't find as much to get excited about as we thought we would. > Maybe we > didn't look in the right places or ask the right people. > > > > Of course grass is preferable and a lot of grass is even better. A > decent > climate is a big plus (more flying days) near a city but not too > near, and > no high elevations that my poor old asthmatic Piet would find hard to > tolerate. > > > > Candidates???? > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:03 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: retirement site --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Got news for you. You're dreaming.You are never free with a wife and kids. Corky in La with a wife and 8 kids ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:14 AM PST US From: "Robert Haines" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Question - Solid Spruce vs Built Up --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Haines" Jack Textor and group, I've always wondered the same question, whether to use a solid spar or build up an I-beam with plywood and solid strips. (My selection for the web material is plywood here, if I had that much solid lumber, I would just as well use a solid spar.) As I see it (insert disclaimer here), there are some advantages for each... Solid Spar The advantages of this are that it's easy to manufacturer; just rip, plane, and cut to length a long piece of lumber and that's it. Attaching ribs and fittings require no spacers (an I beam would require a filler between the caps due to the thinner web section). Although, obtaining a spar grade stick of lumber, particularly Sitka Spruce, comes with a price. Built Up Spar The advantages of this are that it is possibly lighter than a comparatively equal solid spar. Additionally, it may be easier to obtain the materials locally as plywood is a ubiquitous product and the solid cap strips could be built up from several shorter pieces Sure, you could scarf a solid spar together but to me personally, I just wouldn't feel comfortable knowing there was a big-ol' glue joint holding the spar together. Somehow it seems more palatable knowing that there are several smaller glue joints holding the spar together as in the case with the built up spar. One other advantage is that the built up spar could come from "byproduct" material... you've already got the plywood for the firewall, bulkheads, seats, whatever and if planned correctly, the spar webbing could use up the leftover; the same applies to the caps (this is a general comment, in the Piet, I believe that the material list is defined well enough that very little is left over). Design? What the heck, I've got the engineering books here on the shelf... I'm dying to know how much built up spar would equal a solid spar. One quick wood lesson: lumber is very strong in compression and tension in the direction of its grain (grain in this case means cellular orientation, not growth rings) and weak perpendicular to it. It would be easier to grab a 2x4x8' stud and pull it apart into two 2x2's than it would be to pull it apart into two 4' pieces (not actually, considering surface area but you get my point). Plywood is a trade off. It's laminations oriented 90 degrees to each other make a strip of it almost as strong parallel to the strip as perpendicular. A spar requires most of it's strength parallel to the length, good for solid spar, bad for plywood spar. That's where the capstrips come in. The cantilever forces on a spar cause the top of the spar to go into compression and the bottom of the spar to go into tension, in the center of the spar, there is neither (yea yea, ideally only here, sure there is shear at places like just adjacent to the strut, but overlook this just this one time). If you were to remove all of the middle, you would be left with two capstrips, which really do all the work anyway. In a built up spar, the plywood web in the middle pretty much just holds the two capstrips in place (again, it also works against the force of twisting or racking in conjunction with the ribs, but overlook this as well). The next question is... is there a way to make a 3/4" wide built up spar (because I don't want to redesign all the ribs) equal to a solid 3/4" wide spar? Answer: no. Like I said before, a 3/4" built up spar would be like a 3/4" solid with the middle removed, additionally, the plywood is weaker. The way you want to look at it is... how can I use less solid lumber and retain the same strength (for weight reasons or to save on material costs)? Answer: make it wider at the top, remove the middle (look at an I beam). For this conversation, lets only look at the solid lumber. A solid spar that is 3/4" wide by 5" tall has a section modulus of 3.125 in 3. A built up spar using four 3/4"x3/4" strips, two at the top, two at the bottom, would have a section modulus (solid lumber only, no plywood) would have a s.m. of 4.1in 3. (Yea, I did all the calculations but won't bore you with them here) By the way, section modulus is just a measure of the cross sectional area's ability to resist a moment. Multiply that by the extreme fiber stress and the result is the ultimate moment that can be applied. Ok, Ok, based on the solid lumber alone in this example the built up spar is 1/3 stronger using 3/5 the solid wood. So where does this leave you? I hope I haven't preached to you all. It was really only so that I could maybe help out a little. But the answer is really why are you considering the built up spar for the Piet? Comparatively speaking, it doesn't amount to much cost or cost savings considering the total project, you've got plenty of other things to build, and the solid spar is already plenty strong enough as proven by years of experience. Humbly, Robert Haines Du Quoin, Illinois ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:55 PM PST US From: "rambog@erols.com" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cork fuel indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rambog@erols.com" Yes, buy real, old fashioned shellac. That is the only thing I know of that will hold up in all types of fuel and is what has always been traditionally used on fuel floats. Gene Original Message: ----------------- From: Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg@earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: cork fuel indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" Any thoughts or experiences regarding the best float material for auto gas? If a cork is used does it have to be sealed with something fuel proof? Douwe douweblumberg@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:13 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork fuel indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Sirs;, If I might suggest. Years ago I bought some Hirsch gas tank sealer too stop the leaks in my 27 Dodge tank. I had a bit left so I found a place on the shelve and forgot about. While building the welding rod-cork fuel guage for 41CC I tried shellac but could never get it dried. I looked around and saw this Hirsch can on the shelve. In dipped the cork then let dry. No gas has ever come close to that cork, I gar ron tee. You might check with the old car clubs or hobbiest in your area as most all have used Hirsch gas tank sealer and someone might have some left on a shelve near you. You can find their ad in Hemmings but you don't need a qt to seal a cork. Cork in La all sealed up with Hirsch ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:01 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the "winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you ! Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:))) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:47 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork fuel indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" Wow, excellent idea. Or maybe some ProSeal since you'll probably be using some of that fun stuff anyway? I gave several coats of expoxy to the one I built (which I'll not be using now....). By the way, I've decided to use a capacitance meter system and I now have one of those Stearman type guages from AS&S still in the bag. Also have several glass tubes from a manufacturer of high temp/pressure boiler products. Sure would be better for them to be used rather than sitting on my shelf..... If anyone wants either the Stearman guage (at a bargain basement price, of course) or any of the tubing (for shipping costs only), let me know. The boiler tubing is like what I've documented in my build log on mykitplane.com if you're interested. Jim in Plano ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork fuel indicator > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com > > Sirs;, > > If I might suggest. > Years ago I bought some Hirsch gas tank sealer too stop the leaks in my 27 > Dodge tank. I had a bit left so I found a place on the shelve and forgot about. > While building the welding rod-cork fuel guage for 41CC I tried shellac but > could never get it dried. I looked around and saw this Hirsch can on the shelve. > In dipped the cork then let dry. No gas has ever come close to that cork, I > gar ron tee. You might check with the old car clubs or hobbiest in your area as > most all have used Hirsch gas tank sealer and someone might have some left on > a shelve near you. You can find their ad in Hemmings but you don't need a qt > to seal a cork. > > Cork in La all sealed up with Hirsch > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? From: Mike --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike Mike, My cranky old IA (RIP, John), taught me a test for alcohol in fuel. Take a fuel sample in a clear tube and add a couple of drops of water. If the water falls to the bottom of the tube and stays there, there isn't enough alcohol to matter. If the water dissolves, then there is a significant amount of alcohol dissolved in the fuel. Mike Hardaway on 10/23/03 13:11, Michael D Cuy at Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and > so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the > "winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts > of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no > alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the > ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not > in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you ! > > Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by > you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion > those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up > flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is > freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:))) > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:30 PM PST US From: "catdesign@intergate.com" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "catdesign@intergate.com" Gee Mike, can't help you on the gas but I would be willing to keep your plane here in Sacramento all nice and warm this winter. Temperature 84 F / 29 C Humidity 25% Dew Point 45 F / 7 C Wind NNW at 18 mph / 29.0 km/h Wind Gust 26 mph / 43 km/h Pressure 29.98 in / 1015 hPa (Steady) Conditions Clear Visibility 9 miles / 14 kilometers Clouds (Above Ground Level) Clear (CLR) : - Max Temperature Normal: 75F Record: 89F (1965) Min Temperature Normal: 49F Record: 38F (1961) Yesterday's Maximum 79 F / 26 C approx. Yesterday's Minimum 52 F / 11 C approx. Yesterday's Growing Degree Days 5 (base 60F) approx. I would even take your plane out for exercise once or twice a week just to keep the oil in the cylinders. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Do not archive Quoting Michael D Cuy : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and > so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the > "winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts > of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no > alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the > ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not > in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you ! > > Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by > you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion > those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up > flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is > freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:))) > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:28 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash We got 3" of snow since last night, and it's still snowing. ... but I did 12 years in Florida and it still beats 90 degrees in the shade any day. Jim Ash northern NH. At 10/23/2003 04:11 PM -0400, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > >Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and >so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the >"winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts >of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no >alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the >ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not >in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you ! > >Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by >you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion >those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up >flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is >freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:))) > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:36 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear springs/was weight loss program --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Barry asked: >What is the part # you decided on from McMaster Carr? Is it the white >with a yellow stripe? And Terry replied: >the following die spring part number based on some eyeball engineering. >The max compression travel for our gear (per Hatz CB-1 plans) is >approx. 2.5 inches. So we thought the spring rate 392 lb/in should be >about right. >It seems very stiff, but the proof will be in the completed pudding. It >was bare steel, not painted. Take a look at the second (or the last) picture at http://www.flysquirrel.net/cowling/cowling.html which is my little "Flying Squirrel" just sitting on its gear. The landing gear shock strut springs in the picture are at least 3/4 compressed and this is just the fuselage and engine, sans wings, tail group, instruments, and a whole bunch of other stuff. The Squirrel grosses 800 lbs. at design. Anyway, the white springs with blue stripe supposedly provide 264 lb./in. and 460 lbs. at full deflection (McMaster-Carr #9297K84) and that ain't gonna be enough! So I now have heavier ones, I think they are black with a bronze stripe (McM-C #9588K3). They feel really stiff, but like Terry says, the proff will be in the pudding and "too stiff" might not be stiff enough. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:22 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Mike, Chilly and breezy here in north NJ. Predicting in the 20's tonite. I decided long ago when I had some auto fuel in the Piet to test run it and the rubber gasket on the approved fuel cap started to distort and get "gooshey". Auto fuel around here is upwards of $2.00 per gal ( even saw premium east of the hudson near Sleepy Hollow at $2.22 per gal.) With AV gas at $2.60 gal and 4 gal/hr burn,,,,,figured that with an extra $4.00 per hour to fly my great Piet over the countryside with no worries, was well worth it. Right now I'm sticking with the AVgas. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and > so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the > "winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts > of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no > alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the > ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not > in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you ! > > Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by > you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion > those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up > flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is > freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:))) > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:33 PM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" Amen. Did 2.5 years in Anchorage (wonderful) followed by a year in Tampa (very, very muggy) and have to say the snow is far more fun (and the planes fly better) than the heat... john do not archive John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> ashcan@earthlink.net Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:30:34 PM >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash We got 3" of snow since last night, and it's still snowing. ... but I did 12 years in Florida and it still beats 90 degrees in the shade any day. Jim Ash northern NH. At 10/23/2003 04:11 PM -0400, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > >Guys--- I'm trying to find premium unleaded auto fuel without alcohol and >so far both Marathon and Shell say they used to carry no alcohol, but the >"winter blend" in our city has been changed to include some trace amounts >of alcohol. Shoot. Then one Marathon owner said they have no >alcohol. I dunno. Aren't those fuel testers around you can buy with the >ball floats in them so that they can detect wether there is alcohol or not >in the fuel ? I know I've seen them before. Thank you ! > >Mike C. in balmy Cleveland.............39 F and cloudy ! How's it by >you Walt E. in NJ ??? I don't want to hear how much suntan lotion >those poor guys like Corky in La and nice guy Jim Sury are soaking up >flying those open cockpit planes still into late October. Poor Gene R. is >freezing his nuggies off too I'll bet:))) > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:51 PM PST US From: JamesJboyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marathon or Shell ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: JamesJboyer@aol.com Chris you could even fly MIkes Piet over to Santa Rosa and we could both oh and ah and polish it and who knows what else! Cheers, Jim Mike if you aren't sure about Chris you know I'd really keep it warm and comfy.