Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:27 AM - Re: Cam clamp (Clif Dawson)
2. 02:28 AM - Re: ribs, spars... (Clif Dawson)
3. 09:11 AM - Re: my laminated tailspring cracked (Ken Chambers)
4. 09:19 AM - Re: first passenger yesterday (Carbarvo@aol.com)
5. 09:51 AM - Re: my laminated tailspring cracked (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
6. 10:32 AM - Pietenpol accident research (Don Divelbiss)
7. 11:21 AM - two people on board (Michael D Cuy)
8. 11:23 AM - Re: Pietenpol accident research (Kent Hallsten)
9. 01:39 PM - Re: Pietenpol accident research (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
10. 02:43 PM - Re: Pietenpol accident research (Barry Davis)
11. 05:55 PM - Nov. EAA Experimenter (Oscar Zuniga)
12. 06:39 PM - insurance (Richard Navratil)
13. 07:03 PM - Re: insurance (Dave and Connie)
14. 09:29 PM - Re: Flying Helmet (DOUGLAS BLACKBURN)
15. 11:02 PM - Re: ribs, spars... (dave rowe)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Hi Rick,
Thank you. The swirl pattern is known as " engine turning "
Different guys have used different tools and mediums but
the most common now seems to be circles of scotchbrite
pads glued to the ends of dowels and the heads of bolts
and intake valves. All of the above are chucked in a drill
press. The archives has quite a list of messages on the
subject.
Good article in Custom Planes, Sept 2000.
It's all aluminum, 6061-T6 from the local hobby shop no less.
The handles are 1 3/8" brass knobs from Lee Valley tools
# 01W19.03. Check below
http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp?SID=&ccurrency=1
Go to Hardware, Knobs, Ball- in left column.
You might find the same in a local cabinet hardware shop.
Clif
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: At7000ft@aol.com
>
> Clif
>
> I was admiring the work you have done looking at your mykitplane.com
> images and was wondering if I can ask you a question. Your throttle
quadrant is a real work of art, how did you create the swirl pattern on the
main plate? Is the quadrant all aluminum? What is the top handle made of?
>
> Thank You
>
> Rick Holland
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: ribs, spars... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Hi Drago, Welcome to the list.
I'm chipping in my 2 cents worth regarding spar woods.
Ash is 50% heavier than spruce but only 25% stronger.
You will have some weight penalty. This might be over
come by judicous design using a ply web with a 45 ply
orientation but the use of a softwood( evergreen tree)
such as spruce,hemlock,fir,cedar would be better.
Good evergreen trees grow all over the world in moist
northerly areas. It's a matter of finding the technical info,
particularly compression strength, then the other
characteristics relative to spruce, for local woods. This
information is readily available for North American
species. Check with your Europian lumber industry.
They must have done laboratory testing on wood that
grows there. A possible source of info and maybe
suitable wood are ladder manufacturers. They require
the strongest and lightest woods. Any in Bosnia?
Also you have what are called "Illegal mills" in your
country. Small local ones that may custom cut what
you need.
Clif
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Drago Vejnovic <vejnovic@inecco.net>
>
> Dear Pieters,
>
> I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known
> builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my
> native.> I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice
longerons.
> As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use
> white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for
> vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for
> web.
> I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel
> AISI 316).
> My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis.
>
> Does anybody have coments?
> Thanks for help.
>
> Drago Vejnovic
>
> Vojvode Momcila 14
> 78000 Banja Luka
> Bosnia and Herzegovina
>
> vejnovic@inecco.net
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: my laminated tailspring cracked |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers@winternals.com>
Hey Carl
Well, I didn't so much jump on it as grab hold of the end and put my
full weight on it. And then I bounced a little.
I've been anxious to get opinions from other builders about this
project. I noticed that one of the UK Aircamper builders jumped on his
tails pring and it broke. I think it was composite. But he weighed only
150.
I agree that it's probably more stress than it would have seen in real
life. Any other opinions out there? Did I stress this thing too much to
offer a realistic test?
Thanks
Ken
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: first passenger yesterday |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
Chuck...You've hit a nerve with me. Your investigation of Pietenpol accidents
is extremely valuable to all of us. I am particularly interested in accidents
caused by the failure of wire wheels. Would you scribble my name down on an
old lunch meat wrapper so that when you get through with your research you
could let me know? I'd appreciate that very much...Carl Vought
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: my laminated tailspring cracked |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Ken
The crash load factor is 9 G's downward for certification of normal category airplanes.
The part must withstand that load without permanent deformation. If
the tail weighs 30 to 40 pounds, then the 9G load is 270 to 360 pounds. Designing
the part to withstand this would cover just about any hard landing you might
do, even if you hit tail first. When you jumped, do you think you exerted
twice or three times your body weight on the part? Hard to tell without measuring.
If you manage to build the airplane with a ighter tail weight, that would
help too.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 6
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Subject: | Pietenpol accident research |
UPPERCASE_50_75
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Divelbiss" <ddivelbiss@hotmail.com>
Hello,
I have been lurking on this list for quite some time. Finally I have
something (of possible value) to contribute to the list. I do not recall
where I aquired the data, but it appears to be a fairly good sample of
pietenpol accidents. The file itself is a 53K text file, so I am somewhat
reluctant to post it as an email. What would be the best way to distribute
this to all who are interested?
Don Divelbiss (Aircamper: most ribs done, fuse in process)
Mt. Vernon, OH
Below are a couple of the entrys to give an idea what it contains.
AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 1014B LOCATION: COLLINSVILLE , OK
DATE: 05/08/87 ACFT HRS: 80
YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 0 INJURIES:0
WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY CLER G10 360/09
ENGINE:
PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 1700 HRS IN MODEL: 50 LAST 90 DAYS: 10
CAUSES: POWER LEVER
TYPE EVENT: ENGINE MALFUNCTION DMG: MINOR
PHASE OF FLIGHT: FORCED LANDING
CATEGORY: IMPROPER MAINTENANCE
TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WIN
REMARKS:
THE AIRCRAFT LANDED SHORT WHEN THE ENGINE FAILED
ON FINAL. THE THROTTLE IDLE ADJUSTMENT WAS
IMPROPERLY SET.
****************************************************************************
***
AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 1371A LOCATION: ARLINGTON , TX
DATE: 07/26/87 ACFT HRS: 54
YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 0 INJURIES:0
WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY SCAT 8 120/11
ENGINE: CONT A658
PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 400 HRS IN MODEL: 3 LAST 90 DAYS: 3
CAUSES: IMPROP OPER BRAKE/FLT CLT GRN
OTHER/MISCELLANEOUS
TYPE EVENT: NOSE UP OR OVER DMG: SUBSTANTIAL
PHASE OF FLIGHT: LEVEL OFF TOUCHDOWN
CATEGORY: PILOT INDUCED
TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WIN
REMARKS:
THE AIRCRAFT NOSED OVER ON LANDING.
Message 7
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Subject: | two people on board |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Way to go Walt and Chuck about sharing rides in your Piets. Summer days w/
full fuel are the WORST. Gotta work up in passenger wt. to see how much
fuel you can carry and still have enough umph to get over your trees or
wires. Even with a strong 65 hp the Piet wing is not 35 feet but 29 feet
long and works to get you in the air w/ a passenger sometimes.
Course your weight as pilot and the plane's empty wt. are huge factors as
well.
I like to lift off and then let the airspeed climb just a bit before trying
to climb with an adult passenger on warmer days. The airspeed can bleed
off in a hurry after your happy initial climb rate in or near ground
effect. Keep pushing the nose down to keep your speed up. I know that
sounds very simple but you have to do it on our draggy Piets somedays.
On final I like to ask my passengers to lean against the left or right side
of the cockpit to help my forward visibility in the flare. Not to scrunch
down, but just to press to one side. This really helps.
Mike C. where it's 79 and sunny in Cleveland........for now
Message 8
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Subject: | Pietenpol accident research |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
Don,
I would like to see the files, would you be able to zip the file, and upload it to a website like "www.Mykitplane.com" ? It's free to sign up and there are a bunch of Pietenpol entries to look at. There is a place for files on this site, and you can log your construction time here too. Check it out.
Kent Hallsten
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Divelbiss [mailto:ddivelbiss@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:32 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol accident research
> pietenpol accidents. The file itself is a 53K text file, so
> I am somewhat
> reluctant to post it as an email. What would be the best way
> to distribute
> this to all who are interested?
>
> Don Divelbiss (Aircamper: most ribs done, fuse in process)
> Mt. Vernon, OH
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol accident research |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
There's a "DATA" posting segment of the website "MyKitplane.com" It is free to
post such files. Many Piet members are already on that site.
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol accident research |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
I would like to see them if you want to send them directly outside the list.
Barry
bed@mindspring.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol accident research
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
>
>
> There's a "DATA" posting segment of the website "MyKitplane.com" It is
free to post such files. Many Piet members are already on that site.
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Nov. EAA Experimenter |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
I just got my Nov. Experimenter and whipped through it. More pictures of
Mike Cuy's Piet in the story on Brodhead. One picture shows the protective
leatherette 'bib' that Mike apparently added after many curious onlookers
leaned their arms over the airplane's turtledeck.
There are some pictures of a really nifty uncowled A-65 installation in a
Piet... it's remarkably clean looking considering the engine pretty much
hangs out there for all the world to see. And some pictures of that same
airplane's wheel streamline fairings (spoked wheels).
And last, but certainly not least (among the stuff that caught my eye) is a
really simple and nifty little "skate" that you sit your tailwheel into, for
jockeying the plane around in tight hangars. That is, if your tailwheel
isn't fully castoring. It's a simple little round disk of wood with a slot
in the top for the tailwheel, and a couple of castors on the bottom. Really
nifty. We should see if Mary Jones (or Bob Whittier) would let us scan and
post the image to the PhotoShare here.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 12
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I just got
a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this comparable to others?
AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for the Piet.
Dick N.
Message 13
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie <dmatthe1@rochester.rr.com>
Dick,
I think that my last payment was about $650 for 12,000 hull on my
Taylorcraft. It was from AUA. They were the cheapest that I could find
when I bought the plane. THe rate did drop when I hit 100 time in
type. It was about $850 when I bought the plane with 70 hours in a Cessna 150.
Dave
At 09:39 PM 11/4/2003, Richard Navratil wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil"
><horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
>I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I
>just got a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this
>comparable to others? AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for
>the Piet.
>Dick N.
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Flying Helmet |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:29:52 -0800
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom@msn.com>
Hey gang,
I have been busy with the fire up here in Lake Arrowhead the last two weeks.
I work for the water department up there and have been working round the clock.
I think I responded to this, but have not been "astute" lately because of
work hours. Here is a link for jackets and helmets I found a few months back.
Check them out, very nice apparrel and quality as well.
Doug B.
http://www.flyingjacket.com/
Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn
Yucaipa California
www.inlandsloperebels.com
W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sayre, William G
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Helmet
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
My grandmother passed down a flying helmet that was given to her from her instructor
in 1919. This helmet fits me better than any other I have tried on but
I hate to use it because of its sentimental value. I have found that the major
difference is that if you flatten it out on a table and look at the cutout
for the face, the forehead cut is 90 degrees to the side cut where most modern
helmets the angle is greater than 90 degrees (I guess so the helmet doesn't
ride down as far on ones forehead).
I came to learn that this old cut is apparently referred to as a "Scully" helmet
and an outfit right up the street from the Brodhead airport was able to recreate
one for me but that was years ago and the ravages of time have taken their
toll and that company no longer exists.
If, in shopping for helmets, someone comes across a source for these "Scully"
helmets I'd sure appreciate learning where they could be obtained.
Thanks,
Bill Sayre
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: ribs, spars... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
Having spent a few years in Europe, I would reccommend checking out the
Czech scene, no pun intended. The Czech republic seems to be producing
large numbers of beautiful homebuilts, they would definately have lots
of data. Also, most european gliders are wood, check out the spars for
a fournier RF5. There is also a UK Pietenpol website, great bunch of
guys, and many builders in continental europe subscribe as well. Best
of luck! Dave Rowe
Clif Dawson wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
>
> Hi Drago, Welcome to the list.
>
> I'm chipping in my 2 cents worth regarding spar woods.
>
> Ash is 50% heavier than spruce but only 25% stronger.
> You will have some weight penalty. This might be over
> come by judicous design using a ply web with a 45 ply
> orientation but the use of a softwood( evergreen tree)
> such as spruce,hemlock,fir,cedar would be better.
> Good evergreen trees grow all over the world in moist
> northerly areas. It's a matter of finding the technical info,
> particularly compression strength, then the other
> characteristics relative to spruce, for local woods. This
> information is readily available for North American
> species. Check with your Europian lumber industry.
> They must have done laboratory testing on wood that
> grows there. A possible source of info and maybe
> suitable wood are ladder manufacturers. They require
> the strongest and lightest woods. Any in Bosnia?
> Also you have what are called "Illegal mills" in your
> country. Small local ones that may custom cut what
> you need.
>
> Clif
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Drago Vejnovic <vejnovic@inecco.net>
> >
> > Dear Pieters,
> >
> > I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known
> > builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my
> > native.> I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice
> longerons.
> > As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use
> > white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for
> > vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for
> > web.
> > I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel
> > AISI 316).
> > My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis.
> >
> > Does anybody have coments?
> > Thanks for help.
> >
> > Drago Vejnovic
> >
> > Vojvode Momcila 14
> > 78000 Banja Luka
> > Bosnia and Herzegovina
> >
> > vejnovic@inecco.net
> >
>
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