Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 11/04/03


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:27 AM - Re: Cam clamp (Clif Dawson)
     2. 02:28 AM - Re: ribs, spars... (Clif Dawson)
     3. 09:11 AM - Re: my laminated tailspring cracked (Ken Chambers)
     4. 09:19 AM - Re: first passenger yesterday (Carbarvo@aol.com)
     5. 09:51 AM - Re: my laminated tailspring cracked (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
     6. 10:32 AM - Pietenpol accident research (Don Divelbiss)
     7. 11:21 AM - two people on board (Michael D Cuy)
     8. 11:23 AM - Re: Pietenpol accident research (Kent Hallsten)
     9. 01:39 PM - Re: Pietenpol accident research (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    10. 02:43 PM - Re: Pietenpol accident research (Barry Davis)
    11. 05:55 PM - Nov. EAA Experimenter (Oscar Zuniga)
    12. 06:39 PM - insurance (Richard Navratil)
    13. 07:03 PM - Re: insurance (Dave and Connie)
    14. 09:29 PM - Re: Flying Helmet (DOUGLAS BLACKBURN)
    15. 11:02 PM - Re: ribs, spars... (dave rowe)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:27:38 AM PST US
    From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: Cam clamp
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> Hi Rick, Thank you. The swirl pattern is known as " engine turning " Different guys have used different tools and mediums but the most common now seems to be circles of scotchbrite pads glued to the ends of dowels and the heads of bolts and intake valves. All of the above are chucked in a drill press. The archives has quite a list of messages on the subject. Good article in Custom Planes, Sept 2000. It's all aluminum, 6061-T6 from the local hobby shop no less. The handles are 1 3/8" brass knobs from Lee Valley tools # 01W19.03. Check below http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp?SID=&ccurrency=1 Go to Hardware, Knobs, Ball- in left column. You might find the same in a local cabinet hardware shop. Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: At7000ft@aol.com > > Clif > > I was admiring the work you have done looking at your mykitplane.com > images and was wondering if I can ask you a question. Your throttle quadrant is a real work of art, how did you create the swirl pattern on the main plate? Is the quadrant all aluminum? What is the top handle made of? > > Thank You > > Rick Holland


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:28:56 AM PST US
    From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: ribs, spars...
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> Hi Drago, Welcome to the list. I'm chipping in my 2 cents worth regarding spar woods. Ash is 50% heavier than spruce but only 25% stronger. You will have some weight penalty. This might be over come by judicous design using a ply web with a 45 ply orientation but the use of a softwood( evergreen tree) such as spruce,hemlock,fir,cedar would be better. Good evergreen trees grow all over the world in moist northerly areas. It's a matter of finding the technical info, particularly compression strength, then the other characteristics relative to spruce, for local woods. This information is readily available for North American species. Check with your Europian lumber industry. They must have done laboratory testing on wood that grows there. A possible source of info and maybe suitable wood are ladder manufacturers. They require the strongest and lightest woods. Any in Bosnia? Also you have what are called "Illegal mills" in your country. Small local ones that may custom cut what you need. Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Drago Vejnovic <vejnovic@inecco.net> > > Dear Pieters, > > I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known > builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my > native.> I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice longerons. > As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use > white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for > vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for > web. > I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel > AISI 316). > My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis. > > Does anybody have coments? > Thanks for help. > > Drago Vejnovic > > Vojvode Momcila 14 > 78000 Banja Luka > Bosnia and Herzegovina > > vejnovic@inecco.net >


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:11:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: my laminated tailspring cracked
    From: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers@winternals.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers@winternals.com> Hey Carl Well, I didn't so much jump on it as grab hold of the end and put my full weight on it. And then I bounced a little. I've been anxious to get opinions from other builders about this project. I noticed that one of the UK Aircamper builders jumped on his tails pring and it broke. I think it was composite. But he weighed only 150. I agree that it's probably more stress than it would have seen in real life. Any other opinions out there? Did I stress this thing too much to offer a realistic test? Thanks Ken


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:19:32 AM PST US
    From: Carbarvo@aol.com
    Subject: Re: first passenger yesterday
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com Chuck...You've hit a nerve with me. Your investigation of Pietenpol accidents is extremely valuable to all of us. I am particularly interested in accidents caused by the failure of wire wheels. Would you scribble my name down on an old lunch meat wrapper so that when you get through with your research you could let me know? I'd appreciate that very much...Carl Vought


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:51:59 AM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: my laminated tailspring cracked
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Ken The crash load factor is 9 G's downward for certification of normal category airplanes. The part must withstand that load without permanent deformation. If the tail weighs 30 to 40 pounds, then the 9G load is 270 to 360 pounds. Designing the part to withstand this would cover just about any hard landing you might do, even if you hit tail first. When you jumped, do you think you exerted twice or three times your body weight on the part? Hard to tell without measuring. If you manage to build the airplane with a ighter tail weight, that would help too. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:32:43 AM PST US
    From: "Don Divelbiss" <ddivelbiss@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Pietenpol accident research
    UPPERCASE_50_75 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Divelbiss" <ddivelbiss@hotmail.com> Hello, I have been lurking on this list for quite some time. Finally I have something (of possible value) to contribute to the list. I do not recall where I aquired the data, but it appears to be a fairly good sample of pietenpol accidents. The file itself is a 53K text file, so I am somewhat reluctant to post it as an email. What would be the best way to distribute this to all who are interested? Don Divelbiss (Aircamper: most ribs done, fuse in process) Mt. Vernon, OH Below are a couple of the entrys to give an idea what it contains. AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 1014B LOCATION: COLLINSVILLE , OK DATE: 05/08/87 ACFT HRS: 80 YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 0 INJURIES:0 WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY CLER G10 360/09 ENGINE: PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 1700 HRS IN MODEL: 50 LAST 90 DAYS: 10 CAUSES: POWER LEVER TYPE EVENT: ENGINE MALFUNCTION DMG: MINOR PHASE OF FLIGHT: FORCED LANDING CATEGORY: IMPROPER MAINTENANCE TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WIN REMARKS: THE AIRCRAFT LANDED SHORT WHEN THE ENGINE FAILED ON FINAL. THE THROTTLE IDLE ADJUSTMENT WAS IMPROPERLY SET. **************************************************************************** *** AMTRPL AIRCAMPER NNUM: 1371A LOCATION: ARLINGTON , TX DATE: 07/26/87 ACFT HRS: 54 YEAR OF MFG: 0 FATALS: 0 INJURIES:0 WX AND WIND: UNKNOWN DAY SCAT 8 120/11 ENGINE: CONT A658 PILOT: TOTAL HRS.: 400 HRS IN MODEL: 3 LAST 90 DAYS: 3 CAUSES: IMPROP OPER BRAKE/FLT CLT GRN OTHER/MISCELLANEOUS TYPE EVENT: NOSE UP OR OVER DMG: SUBSTANTIAL PHASE OF FLIGHT: LEVEL OFF TOUCHDOWN CATEGORY: PILOT INDUCED TYPE AIRCRAFT: MONOPLANE-HIGH/PARASOL WIN REMARKS: THE AIRCRAFT NOSED OVER ON LANDING.


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:21:52 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: two people on board
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Way to go Walt and Chuck about sharing rides in your Piets. Summer days w/ full fuel are the WORST. Gotta work up in passenger wt. to see how much fuel you can carry and still have enough umph to get over your trees or wires. Even with a strong 65 hp the Piet wing is not 35 feet but 29 feet long and works to get you in the air w/ a passenger sometimes. Course your weight as pilot and the plane's empty wt. are huge factors as well. I like to lift off and then let the airspeed climb just a bit before trying to climb with an adult passenger on warmer days. The airspeed can bleed off in a hurry after your happy initial climb rate in or near ground effect. Keep pushing the nose down to keep your speed up. I know that sounds very simple but you have to do it on our draggy Piets somedays. On final I like to ask my passengers to lean against the left or right side of the cockpit to help my forward visibility in the flare. Not to scrunch down, but just to press to one side. This really helps. Mike C. where it's 79 and sunny in Cleveland........for now


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:23:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Pietenpol accident research
    From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com> Don, I would like to see the files, would you be able to zip the file, and upload it to a website like "www.Mykitplane.com" ? It's free to sign up and there are a bunch of Pietenpol entries to look at. There is a place for files on this site, and you can log your construction time here too. Check it out. Kent Hallsten > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Divelbiss [mailto:ddivelbiss@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:32 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol accident research > pietenpol accidents. The file itself is a 53K text file, so > I am somewhat > reluctant to post it as an email. What would be the best way > to distribute > this to all who are interested? > > Don Divelbiss (Aircamper: most ribs done, fuse in process) > Mt. Vernon, OH > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:39:04 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol accident research
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com There's a "DATA" posting segment of the website "MyKitplane.com" It is free to post such files. Many Piet members are already on that site. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:43:07 PM PST US
    From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol accident research
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com> I would like to see them if you want to send them directly outside the list. Barry bed@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol accident research > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > > There's a "DATA" posting segment of the website "MyKitplane.com" It is free to post such files. Many Piet members are already on that site. > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 05:55:02 PM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Nov. EAA Experimenter
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers; I just got my Nov. Experimenter and whipped through it. More pictures of Mike Cuy's Piet in the story on Brodhead. One picture shows the protective leatherette 'bib' that Mike apparently added after many curious onlookers leaned their arms over the airplane's turtledeck. There are some pictures of a really nifty uncowled A-65 installation in a Piet... it's remarkably clean looking considering the engine pretty much hangs out there for all the world to see. And some pictures of that same airplane's wheel streamline fairings (spoked wheels). And last, but certainly not least (among the stuff that caught my eye) is a really simple and nifty little "skate" that you sit your tailwheel into, for jockeying the plane around in tight hangars. That is, if your tailwheel isn't fully castoring. It's a simple little round disk of wood with a slot in the top for the tailwheel, and a couple of castors on the bottom. Really nifty. We should see if Mary Jones (or Bob Whittier) would let us scan and post the image to the PhotoShare here. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:39:55 PM PST US
    From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: insurance
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net> I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I just got a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this comparable to others? AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for the Piet. Dick N.


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:03:24 PM PST US
    From: Dave and Connie <dmatthe1@rochester.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: insurance
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie <dmatthe1@rochester.rr.com> Dick, I think that my last payment was about $650 for 12,000 hull on my Taylorcraft. It was from AUA. They were the cheapest that I could find when I bought the plane. THe rate did drop when I hit 100 time in type. It was about $850 when I bought the plane with 70 hours in a Cessna 150. Dave At 09:39 PM 11/4/2003, Richard Navratil wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" ><horzpool@goldengate.net> > >I dont recall seeing past discussion on insurance rates for the Piet. I >just got a qoute from AOPA with a $14,000 value for $1550. Is this >comparable to others? AOPA says they have had very few quotes done for >the Piet. >Dick N. > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:29:57 PM PST US
    From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Flying Helmet
    Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:29:52 -0800 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom@msn.com> Hey gang, I have been busy with the fire up here in Lake Arrowhead the last two weeks. I work for the water department up there and have been working round the clock. I think I responded to this, but have not been "astute" lately because of work hours. Here is a link for jackets and helmets I found a few months back. Check them out, very nice apparrel and quality as well. Doug B. http://www.flyingjacket.com/ Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn Yucaipa California www.inlandsloperebels.com W.W. conversion manual, #3202 www.flycorvair.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sayre, William G To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Helmet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre@boeing.com> My grandmother passed down a flying helmet that was given to her from her instructor in 1919. This helmet fits me better than any other I have tried on but I hate to use it because of its sentimental value. I have found that the major difference is that if you flatten it out on a table and look at the cutout for the face, the forehead cut is 90 degrees to the side cut where most modern helmets the angle is greater than 90 degrees (I guess so the helmet doesn't ride down as far on ones forehead). I came to learn that this old cut is apparently referred to as a "Scully" helmet and an outfit right up the street from the Brodhead airport was able to recreate one for me but that was years ago and the ravages of time have taken their toll and that company no longer exists. If, in shopping for helmets, someone comes across a source for these "Scully" helmets I'd sure appreciate learning where they could be obtained. Thanks, Bill Sayre


    Message 15


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    Time: 11:02:15 PM PST US
    From: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: ribs, spars...
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> Having spent a few years in Europe, I would reccommend checking out the Czech scene, no pun intended. The Czech republic seems to be producing large numbers of beautiful homebuilts, they would definately have lots of data. Also, most european gliders are wood, check out the spars for a fournier RF5. There is also a UK Pietenpol website, great bunch of guys, and many builders in continental europe subscribe as well. Best of luck! Dave Rowe Clif Dawson wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> > > Hi Drago, Welcome to the list. > > I'm chipping in my 2 cents worth regarding spar woods. > > Ash is 50% heavier than spruce but only 25% stronger. > You will have some weight penalty. This might be over > come by judicous design using a ply web with a 45 ply > orientation but the use of a softwood( evergreen tree) > such as spruce,hemlock,fir,cedar would be better. > Good evergreen trees grow all over the world in moist > northerly areas. It's a matter of finding the technical info, > particularly compression strength, then the other > characteristics relative to spruce, for local woods. This > information is readily available for North American > species. Check with your Europian lumber industry. > They must have done laboratory testing on wood that > grows there. A possible source of info and maybe > suitable wood are ladder manufacturers. They require > the strongest and lightest woods. Any in Bosnia? > Also you have what are called "Illegal mills" in your > country. Small local ones that may custom cut what > you need. > > Clif > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Drago Vejnovic <vejnovic@inecco.net> > > > > Dear Pieters, > > > > I`m new at this list. I`m living in Bosnia(Europe) and I`m only one known > > builder in this country. Excuse me for my bad english, engish is not my > > native.> I`m made fuselage jig( short fuse) and prepare and splice > longerons. > > As hard find aircaft grade spruce I`m planing make I beam spars. I`ll use > > white or european ash for upper and lower spar caps(8X25mm(.3X1")) as for > > vertical web stiffener (8X13 mm(.3X1/2") and 8 mm marine grade plywood for > > web. > > I calculate 16-17kg(35-37lb) for all spars without fitings(steinless steel > > AISI 316). > > My friend (mechanic engineer) will be caculate stress analysis. > > > > Does anybody have coments? > > Thanks for help. > > > > Drago Vejnovic > > > > Vojvode Momcila 14 > > 78000 Banja Luka > > Bosnia and Herzegovina > > > > vejnovic@inecco.net > > >




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