---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/06/03: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:12 AM - Instruments for Sale (Lenleg@aol.com) 2. 05:30 AM - "sport" pilot classification (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 06:32 AM - Talkers and doers (Michael D Cuy) 4. 06:37 AM - one car garage (Michael D Cuy) 5. 06:38 AM - Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk (Barry Davis) 6. 06:44 AM - Re: Insurance (John Dilatush) 7. 06:50 AM - Re: was insurance, now, flying with stones? (Sam Marinucci) 8. 07:05 AM - Re: Talkers and doers (At7000ft@aol.com) 9. 07:27 AM - Re: Insurance (dan john) 10. 08:29 AM - Re: Accident reports (Hodgson, Mark O) 11. 08:39 AM - Re: one car garage (Carbarvo@aol.com) 12. 08:52 AM - Re: Accident reports (Carbarvo@aol.com) 13. 11:52 AM - Re: one car garage (w b evans) 14. 01:54 PM - Re: "sport" pilot classification (w b evans) 15. 02:48 PM - Re: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk (Jack Phillips) 16. 03:24 PM - Re: "sport" pilot classification (Jim Ash) 17. 03:37 PM - Re: Accident reports (Steve Eldredge) 18. 04:38 PM - Re: Tradition (Jim Malley) 19. 04:51 PM - EAA's "Experimenter" magazine (Doc Mosher) 20. 05:17 PM - Re: Insurance (Isablcorky@aol.com) 21. 05:57 PM - Re: Talkers and doers (Michael Conkling) 22. 06:51 PM - Re: Hello, and a few questions (Malcolm Morrison) 23. 07:01 PM - Re: Tradition (Gary Gower) 24. 07:52 PM - Re: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk (Alex Sloan) 25. 07:55 PM - Re: was insurance, now, flying with stones? (Alex Sloan) 26. 08:49 PM - Thanks (Mike Whaley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:44 AM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Instruments for Sale pietenpol-list@matronics.com, commander-list@matronics.com, aerobatic-list@matronics.com, europa-list@matronics.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com I have the following for sale: RC Allen Electric Attitude Indicator with 8 degree tilt, 14V, approx. 75hrs RC Allen Electric Direction Gyro, 14V, 150 hrs, Both instruments are in my RV-8A still flying. Been flying in my plane for 1 year. Instruments retail for $1895 each. Make an offer off list. Please respond direct to: lenleg@aol.com Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:30 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "sport" pilot classification --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" Does anybody know the status of the new pilot classification, I think it's called " sport" pilot? I might be confusing it with the one they tried in the eighties, but I think that was "recreational" pilot. When will it happen and what are the rules and regs for getting one and using one. A problem I found with the old recreational pilot rating was none of the flight schools would offer it. And they'd make it so expensive you might as well go private. Douwe douweblumberg@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:51 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Talkers and doers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Larry---some people have valid excuses for not following thru and finishing an airplane project and to me that's just fine. It's the other flash-in-the-pan types who get so hyped up and hot about building then come to find out it actually takes hard work, creative thinking, money, time, and sacrifice, and then they bail out. Some talk, some do. I like those who do. Like a t-shirt for a Hawaiian radio station I saw one time read: "rock, be rocked, or step aside." Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:20 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: one car garage --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Mike Whaley--- welcome to the list ! Both Steve Eldrege and myself built our planes and only had one car garages at the time. My entire Piet stored nicely in that one car garage with the wings and tail sections off. (oh...that would be a three pce wing not the 29 foot long one piece wing) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:28 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" I know this is off subject, but here goes anyway. Our Piet builders group is going to Kitty Hawk for the 1st flight repeat. I could only order 6 tickets and need one more for the 17th. Does anyone have an extra. I'll pay $100. Barry Davis ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:54 AM PST US From: "John Dilatush" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance =================================== Dick, Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am a EAA member and tried through them. Made an application and never heard back. It may be because of my age, I am 76 yrs old. Don't think so though, because at one underwriter, I listed the primary pilot as a friend who is a professional engineering test pilot with many thousand hours in over 130 types. Still got turned down. "auto engine".was the excuse again. ???? John =================================== > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" > > John > Are you an EAA or AOPA member? It may make a difference. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Dilatush" > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael D Cuy" > > To: > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Insurance > > =============================== > > Mike and other Pieters, > > > > I have tried several times to get insurance on my Piet and if not been > > outright refused, ignored. > > > > The excuse is that since the plane is powered with an auto engine, the > > companies don't want to touch it! > > > > Are there any owners out there with converted auto engines that have been > > able to get insurance? I would sure like to hear from you! > > > > John > > ================================ > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > > > > > > carrying 1 mil $ liability only on my Air Camper costs about $300/year > > and > > > I've switched to EAA's new carrier (since Avemco bailed > > > out) http://www.falconinsurance.com > > > > > > Not sure what the additional hull insurance would be but I'd suspect for > > > about $800 or so you should be able to get liab. and hull to value at > > > around $15,000. > > > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:58 AM PST US From: "Sam Marinucci" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: was insurance, now, flying with stones? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sam Marinucci" >Group, > >I just spent (for the second time in 16 months) the nicest weekend we've >had in NE Ohio this Fall in the hospital being treated for a non-passing >kidney stone. Kip, I went through this very thing about three years ago when I had kidney stones. In January of 2000 I had a bout with kidney stones which were passed okay at the time. In February of 2001 when it was time for to renew my third class medical, I indicated on the paperwork that I had kidney stones the year before. I was informed by the medical examiner that kidney stones are a grounding condition. This I wasn't aware of... I had actually been flying for over a year without a valid medical certificate. The Medical Examiner agreed to hold the paperwork before sending it to the FAA in Oklahoma City for ten days giving me enough time to get a letter from my urologist stating that there were no retained stones and no expectation of another episode. I got the letter to the doctor in time and all ended well. But during the year I was flying after passing the stones, it would have been pretty sticky if anything had happened in the way of an accident. Incidently, kidney stones are extremely debilitating and I can understand why they are considered a grounding condition. The onset is very sudden and in my case I doubled over and could barely move. I shudder to think what would happen if it occured in flight. Sam Marinucci working on wing struts cut down from J3 struts for NX115SM (Golden Oldie) on a rainy Dover, DE. morning Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:46 AM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Talkers and doers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: At7000ft@aol.com It is true that you see a lot of projects for sale in the "almost finished" category. You wouldn't think that it would take 2, 3, or 4 years of work for someone to discover that an aircraft is too much work. I think a lot of people just like to build things, and then when the reality really hits them that they are really going to have to fly this thing then they loose interest. (Especially people who have not learned to fly prior to building). Rick Holland Larry---some people have valid excuses for not following thru and finishing an airplane project and to me that's just fine. It's the other flash-in-the-pan types who get so hyped up and hot about building then come to find out it actually takes hard work, creative thinking, money, time, and sacrifice, and then they bail out. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:56 AM PST US From: dan john Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john Sounds like the same experience I`v had.Know one would cover it until the restrictions are flown off and I have at least 10 houres in it.I had Vi Kapler listed as my pilot.Minnesota requires insurance on all aircraft flown in Minnesota.I guess thay are forcing a person to be a lier.This may be the downside of using a Corvair engine. John P. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports From: "Hodgson, Mark O" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" Apologies to all about the messed up table I sent yesterday, but the locations, dates and tail numbers are pretty clear in it anyway. A note on not getting the NTSB string search feature to work: you have to specify as much as you possibly can to keep the answer set as small as possible, or the machine will grind away forever and maybe time-out on you. Hence, instead of defaulting to "all," specify "airplane," "general aviation," "amateur built," etc., etc. for every category you can. And you may have to hit it more than once (I got a "page not found" error the first time). Probably helps to do it at a time when not everyone is logged on to it, too--like early in the morning or late at night. Mark Hodgson ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:37 AM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: one car garage --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com I bought a pretty complete Piet project from a man in Chicago who built it in a very small second story apartment. When we had successfully extracated it from the apartment and onto my trailer he said "humf....this is the first time I've seen this in the daylight"...Do not archive...Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:50 AM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com Thanks for your efforts, Mark. One thing puzzles me. There are two crashes (both nonfatal, thank goodness) that don't show up. One is that of Wm. Wynne in N1777W on 7/14/01 and the other is a crash involving major damage to N63SB, (resulting from loss of power due to loss of oil) flown by Jimmy Davenport sometime in 1993. I have a feeling that the reporting of these incidents may be "spotty". What do you think? Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:35 AM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: one car garage --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Did mine in a 10x20ft basement complete with an angled "cellar" door. That's half the fun, to figure how to fit all the stuff. Jim Malley ( on this group) started his in a second story appartment in somewhere like Jersey City. When he moved to larger quarters, ( as the story goes in Kitplanes) They passed the wings etc. out the front window to the sidewalk. Where there is a will there IS a way. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: one car garage > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Mike Whaley--- welcome to the list ! Both Steve Eldrege and myself built > our planes and only had one car garages at the time. My entire Piet > stored nicely in that one car garage with the wings and tail sections > off. (oh...that would be a three pce wing not the 29 foot long one piece > wing) > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:22 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "sport" pilot classification --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" Douwe, Go here http://www.sportpilot.org/ explains it all. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "sport" pilot classification > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > Does anybody know the status of the new pilot classification, I think it's called " sport" pilot? I might be confusing it with the one they tried in the eighties, but I think that was "recreational" pilot. > > When will it happen and what are the rules and regs for getting one and using one. > > A problem I found with the old recreational pilot rating was none of the flight schools would offer it. And they'd make it so expensive you might as well go private. > > Douwe > douweblumberg@earthlink.net > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:12 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Hi Barry, I might be able to help you, but won't know until a little closer to the time. I have three tickets, bought for myself, my girlfriend and her son. We've split up, but there is some (slight) chance that we'll get back together before Kittyhawk. If we don't, you're welcome to the ticket for the $50 I think it cost me (1 week ticket). Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" I know this is off subject, but here goes anyway. Our Piet builders group is going to Kitty Hawk for the 1st flight repeat. I could only order 6 tickets and need one more for the 17th. Does anyone have an extra. I'll pay $100. Barry Davis ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:02 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "sport" pilot classification --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash Sport pilot is different. It was signed by the FAA Adminsitrator, good ol' what'sername, at Oshkosh, then passed to some other beurocratic group for final approval. From there it has to go to the Federal Register where it will become official. It's pretty close. I don't know about the certification changes ( I honestly don't care), but once certified, to operate under sport pilot you won't need a medical, onl a driver's license. It will be restricted to a pilot and one passenger, VFR day only. Gross will be limited to 1250lb. In addition to the sport pilot changes, there are also changes to aircraft certification which are supposed to allow some new planes to be manufactured that won't cost you both your first-born and your retirement account. The EAA web site has a link to all this straight from the home page if you want details. Jim Ash At 11/6/2003 08:34 AM -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > >Does anybody know the status of the new pilot classification, I think it's >called " sport" pilot? I might be confusing it with the one they tried in >the eighties, but I think that was "recreational" pilot. > >When will it happen and what are the rules and regs for getting one and >using one. > >A problem I found with the old recreational pilot rating was none of the >flight schools would offer it. And they'd make it so expensive you might >as well go private. > >Douwe >douweblumberg@earthlink.net > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:20 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports From: "Steve Eldredge" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" Only one of my off field landings has been reported... Steve e. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 11/4/03 11:20:21 AM Central Standard Time, Carbarvo@aol.com writes: << Chuck...You've hit a nerve with me. Your investigation of Pietenpol accidents is extremely valuable to all of us. I am particularly interested in accidents caused by the failure of wire wheels. Would you scribble my name down on an old lunch meat wrapper so that when you get through with your research you could let me know? I'd appreciate that very much...Carl Vought >> Carl, The FAA / NTSB require a report to be filed when extensive damage has occured, or an injury has occured. The failure of a wire wheel / ground loop, probably wouldn't end up being reported. I'm sure there are plenty of incidents, even off field landings, that are not reported. However, I'll be sure to send you my report when I get it done. I've had to scroll through the NTSB file, month by month, because I couldn't get the site to bring anything up when I tried to use 'Pietenpol' as the key word. Very time consuming. Chuck G. = == == == == ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:34 PM PST US From: "Jim Malley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tradition --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Malley" There are a few Ford Escorts being used in Pietenpols. It began with the 1.9 liter engine installed by Ed Lubitz in the early 80's. His design did not invert the engine; using a belt reduction gear and a lower bed mount placed the thrust line at the same level as the Ford A. Its predecessor, the 1.6 Fiesta, has proven reliable as well. Prop tops out at about 2000 rpm and fuel at about 2.75 gph. Scouts are more rare than Aircampers - guess most of us like to share the fun. Jim Malley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fisher" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tradition > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Fisher > > Dear seat of the pants flying enthusiasts, > > A Ford powered Pietenpol is an American tradition - - a way for a scrappy maverick to say: I am not dependent on Cessna/Raytheon/Lycoming/Continental. I have a 1.9 liter engine from a 1993 Ford Escort. Everything about it says: Pietenpol Scout. My plan is to invert the engine to get a low center of gravity with high thrust line. This will require extensive modifications to the lubrication, fuel, and cooling systems. A scavenge pump should not be necessary. Constant flow, variable pressure, multi-port injection will deliver the fuel. The propeller flange will be bolted to the crankshaft flange - - no belts or gears. Extra pressure oil will be provided to the thrust bearing. > > This installation should come in a bit lighter than the original Ford, while providing perhaps 15% more thrust. Modern liquid cooled, fuel injected engines can enable economy and range not attainable with air cooling. Thirty horsepower applied to a long, slow turning Prop. should cruise a Scout at seventy MPH. Fuel flow at this power setting will be less than 2.2 GPH A light wooden propeller turning at about 2400 RPM will minimize precessive loads on the crankshaft. Inverting an automobile engine for aircraft use is nothing new. Steve Wittman did it years ago with a Tailwind. > > Why am I doing this? In thirty five years of training pilots, I have observed a severe deterioration in basic airmanship skills. The modern curriculum devotes so much time to regulatory compliance and electronics that precious little is left for stick and rudder. When experienced, role model pilots are seen flying simple, basic airplanes with skill and gusto, a valuable message is sent out: "I can do this too." is the thought which has inspired many great careers. > > I am interested in a plans-built Pietenpol Scout, firewall back, as a test bed for my engine. Some damage would be acceptable. > > Happy landings, Mike Fisher > P. O. Box 347 > Talkeetna, Alaska 99676 > (907) 733-2356 > Alternate e-mail: michaeljpoisson@yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:10 PM PST US From: Doc Mosher Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA's "Experimenter" magazine --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Doc Mosher Oscar Zuniga - Ssshhhh. EAA's "Experimenter" monthly magazine is slowly and stealthily taken over by Piet people. Have you noticed that Cy Galley (who is the key man at AirVenture for emergency repair of aircraft) has a monthly column "Update from Headquarters, William Wynne has a monthly column "Getting Started", and Bob Whittier ( a Piet afficianado for over 50 years) has one of the most interesting monthly columns in any magazine, "Light Plane Heritage", are all Piet people. Ben Morrow "Education Thru Airror" is really a closet Piet type guy. Our local Chapter newsletter recently stated "Among aviation writers, Bob Whittier received the Bax Seat Trophy for his years of extremely well-done articles in a number of aviation magazines. He has the ability to take information about airplanes and write so the reader has a complete understanding of it. As you watch Bob work, he climbs over and under the airplane, camera in hand, and makes a few notes. Later, when you read his piece, you realize he is thinking all the time about how he will present it." Bob's 5-page article about Brodhead's sacred ground in the November "Experimenter", chock full of photos and his pertinent comments take you right to Brodhead! And, of course, he prints full credit to folks like Mike Cuy, Larry Williams, and Ed Reber. Altho "Experimenter" has a very strong flavor about Ultralights (SNL - "not that there's anything wrong with that"), our Piet writers are slowly putting Editor Mary Jones in the frog-in-the-heated water situation. Maybe she won't recognize our subtle Pietenpol noise (pun intended) until "Experimenter" is all grassroots with an occasional Ultralight article. By the way, the tailwheel dolly (works great on a tailskid, too) shown by Bob Whittier's photo does happen to be a wood disk. What we use here is more mundane. We use a 2x6 plank maybe 8 inches long with three casters under it, and build a little receptacle box on top to accept the tailwheel or skid. We also have such dollys for the main wheels, so we can move the airplanes sideways. The Midwest Antique Aviation Club (MAAC) has an annual autumn fly-in at Brodhead. It is so well attended that we have to restrict it to members only, because we fill the airfield with parked airplanes and would have no runway space left! The problem with Whittier's article is that now the world will know what we had thought was our own secret Brodhead experience. Kind of like AirVenture. The damned thing is just too successful! This is November and its time for each of us to contribute to Matronics so we can have this great medium for interchange. If everybody just kicked in $10, it would be a big financial boost. If you can do $50 or so, that's great, but a lot of $10 bills would be kind of Piet-like. Hearing from Corky is worth $10. Doc Mosher ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:00 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Insurance --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Pieters, AOPA Avemco refused me flatly which I hope I remember when renewal time comes around. EAA uses Falcon and they took me without too much quarrel. $540 for 1 million liab plus not in motion hull coverage for $15000 value. I asked Falcon several months ago if I could expect them to drop me when and IF this Sport Pilot ever comes around. He said NO. All I would need is a sign-off by my instructor pilot for tail wheel and bi annual. I'll believe all of this when it actually happens. Try Falcon thru EAA, it's about our only chance. Corky in La flying his creation like a bird until a front moved thru today. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:50 PM PST US From: "Michael Conkling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Talkers and doers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Michael Conkling" and some of us are just slow!! ;-) and I live a mile south of Marion Unruh's old place -- he took only 29 years to build on of his planes! Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Talkers and doers > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Larry---some people have valid excuses for not following thru and finishing > an airplane project and to me that's just fine. It's the other > flash-in-the-pan types who get so hyped up and hot about building then come > to find out it actually takes hard work, creative thinking, money, time, > and sacrifice, and then they bail out. Some talk, some do. I like those > who do. Like a t-shirt for a Hawaiian radio station I saw one time > read: "rock, be rocked, or step aside." > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:00 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Morrison" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello, and a few questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Malcolm Morrison" > Finally, has anyone devised a way to fold the wings on a regular basis for > transport? Hangar space here is scarce, and it certainly ain't cheap! > Hi Mike I have designed a folding wing for my aircamper. I have the fuselage and tail just about done and I am just starting on the wing center section. The center section is 4 feet wide and the lift strust are tilted out so they attach directly to the wing folding brackets at the ends of the center rear spar. The wings will fold back around the rear spar and rotate a little bit so that the trailing edge is about 2 feet higher than the leading edge. When folded it will be about 9.5 feet from leading edge to leading edge. I am going to use a "v" strut setup with a pivot at the fuselage attach point. The wing will be held inplace with captive pins at the front spar. This will allow wings to fold/unfold quickly. Still working out the datails as I go and I plan to load test the finished wing. I'll try to keep the group updated on progress through the list server and my web site http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5 Good luck with your project Malcolm ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:05 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tradition --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Mr Malley: I have admired your plane since the first article... Do you still have the Escort engine? How many hours to date?... I will like to read any comments... Your plane (and several of this list) is a real tradition in the Piet world. Saludos Gary Gower. --- Jim Malley wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Malley" > > > There are a few Ford Escorts being used in Pietenpols. It began with > the 1.9 > liter engine installed by Ed Lubitz in the early 80's. His design did > not > invert the engine; using a belt reduction gear and a lower bed mount > placed > the thrust line at the same level as the Ford A. Its predecessor, the > 1.6 > Fiesta, has proven reliable as well. Prop tops out at about 2000 rpm > and > fuel at about 2.75 gph. Scouts are more rare than Aircampers - guess > most of > us like to share the fun. > Jim Malley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Fisher" > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tradition > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Fisher > > > > > Dear seat of the pants flying enthusiasts, > > > > A Ford powered Pietenpol is an American tradition - - a way for a > scrappy > maverick to say: I am not dependent on > Cessna/Raytheon/Lycoming/Continental. > I have a 1.9 liter engine from a 1993 Ford Escort. Everything about > it > says: Pietenpol Scout. My plan is to invert the engine to get a low > center > of gravity with high thrust line. This will require extensive > modifications > to the lubrication, fuel, and cooling systems. A scavenge pump > should not > be necessary. Constant flow, variable pressure, multi-port injection > will > deliver the fuel. The propeller flange will be bolted to the > crankshaft > flange - - no belts or gears. Extra pressure oil will be provided to > the > thrust bearing. > > > > This installation should come in a bit lighter than the original > Ford, > while providing perhaps 15% more thrust. Modern liquid cooled, fuel > injected engines can enable economy and range not attainable with air > cooling. Thirty horsepower applied to a long, slow turning Prop. > should > cruise a Scout at seventy MPH. Fuel flow at this power setting will > be less > than 2.2 GPH A light wooden propeller turning at about 2400 RPM will > minimize precessive loads on the crankshaft. Inverting an automobile > engine > for aircraft use is nothing new. Steve Wittman did it years ago with > a > Tailwind. > > > > Why am I doing this? In thirty five years of training pilots, I > have > observed a severe deterioration in basic airmanship skills. The > modern > curriculum devotes so much time to regulatory compliance and > electronics > that precious little is left for stick and rudder. When experienced, > role > model pilots are seen flying simple, basic airplanes with skill and > gusto, a > valuable message is sent out: "I can do this too." is the thought > which has > inspired many great careers. > > > > I am interested in a plans-built Pietenpol Scout, firewall back, as > a test > bed for my engine. Some damage would be acceptable. > > > > Happy landings, Mike Fisher > > P. O. Box 347 > > Talkeetna, Alaska 99676 > > (907) 733-2356 > > Alternate e-mail: michaeljpoisson@yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _-> > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:32 PM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Barr D. I do not have a ticket but I do have information of a Model A Ford engine for sale ready to bolt on built by a FAA licensed mechanic. Any one interested get in touch with me and I will give you his phone number. Alex Sloan 256-764-2083 alexms1@bellsouth.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dec. 17th - Kitty Hawk > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > > I know this is off subject, but here goes anyway. Our Piet builders group is going to Kitty Hawk for the 1st flight repeat. I could only order 6 tickets and need one more for the 17th. Does anyone have an extra. I'll pay $100. > Barry Davis > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:38 PM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: was insurance, now, flying with stones? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Sam, I have a set of J-3 struts to use on my Pietenpol. How much is necessary to cut off? Alex Sloan alexms1@bellsouth.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Marinucci" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: was insurance, now, flying with stones? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sam Marinucci" > > > >Group, > > > >I just spent (for the second time in 16 months) the nicest weekend we've > >had in NE Ohio this Fall in the hospital being treated for a non-passing > >kidney stone. > > > Kip, > I went through this very thing about three years ago when I had > kidney stones. In January of 2000 I had a bout with kidney stones which were > passed okay at the time. In February of 2001 when it was time for to renew > my third class medical, I indicated on the paperwork that I had kidney > stones the year before. I was informed by the medical examiner that kidney > stones are a grounding condition. This I wasn't aware of... I had actually > been flying for over a year without a valid medical certificate. The Medical > Examiner agreed to hold the paperwork before sending it to the FAA in > Oklahoma City for ten days giving me enough time to get a letter from my > urologist stating that there were no retained stones and no expectation of > another episode. I got the letter to the doctor in time and all ended well. > But during the year I was flying after passing the stones, it would have > been pretty sticky if anything had happened in the way of an accident. > Incidently, kidney stones are extremely debilitating and I can > understand why they are considered a grounding condition. The onset is very > sudden and in my case I doubled over and could barely move. I shudder to > think what would happen if it occured in flight. > Sam Marinucci > working on wing struts > cut down from J3 struts > for NX115SM (Golden Oldie) > on a rainy Dover, DE. morning > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:07 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" Thanks all for the warm welcome and sage advice. I will not freak out if we end up with a 1-car garage, if we get a 2-car garage then I'll just have to build two planes at once I suppose! :) I was helping with the Pitts 14 wing prototype at work today, gluing on some wing pieces, and the T-88 just kept making me dream of Air Campers. I will revisit the folding wing issue when I get to that point, but it sounds like there are some possibilities in that area at least if I decide that's necessary. (If other planes can do it, a Piet should be able to do it with a little ingenuity!) I'm sure there's several ways you could go with that. -Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ http://www.ov-10bronco.net/users/merlin/ do not archive