---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/07/03: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 08:35 AM - Re: Accident reports (Hodgson, Mark O) 3. 08:37 AM - Re: was insurance, now, flying with stones? (Hodgson, Mark O) 4. 09:25 AM - kindey stones & contact lenses (Michael D Cuy) 5. 12:05 PM - Accident reports (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 12:34 PM - Re: Accident reports (Barry Davis) 7. 01:59 PM - no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have they? (w b evans) 8. 02:52 PM - Talkeetna (Michael Fisher) 9. 02:59 PM - Re: (Richard Navratil) 10. 03:26 PM - Re: no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have... (Isablcorky@aol.com) 11. 05:19 PM - Re: no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have they? (John McNarry) 12. 06:22 PM - Re: no one has made a successful canopy for (dave rowe) 13. 06:30 PM - Continental pakette engine (Christian Bobka) 14. 07:56 PM - Re: kindey stones & contact lenses (Alex Sloan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:01 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" My project is in the final phase. I've always wanted to use a Ford, and even have one being worked on as I write. However, now that the "reality" is looking me in the face I am having second thoughts about the reliability factor. From what I've read, it would "appear" that a large majority of Ford flyers have experienced forced landings, which while usually fine out here in the midwest, isn't something I'd like to have to plan on. I'd like any feedback/opinions on this subject. And, if I did decide to go the Continental route, where is the best place to start looking, or are there shops out there selling yellowtagged units? Douwe douweblumberg@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports From: "Hodgson, Mark O" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" Carl, Hey, I'm just a tax-paying user of the d.b.; I don't manage it! Like any airplane there is probably always something on it that could use some maintenance. But it is useful for getting an overall view, which is how I have used it to help in researching a plane to build or an engine to use (maybe someday I'll actually start building one--the Bingelis books arrived at my doorstep 3 days ago and I just finished watching Mike Cuy's video a second time). Mark ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: was insurance, now, flying with stones? From: "Hodgson, Mark O" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" Sam, I sent a note to Kip yesterday outside the list mentioning my I own successful bout with stones 2 years ago, but worth mentioning here is that the senior AME who eventually cleared me told me that not once in the history of aviation had a crash ever been attributed to kidney stones. The conversation was a long time ago now, and I don't know the exact words. He didn't deny that there might have been stone attacks at altitude, only that had they ever occurred the belief was that where there's a will, there's a way--like so many other aviation stories in which pilots have managed to get the wheels back to the ground under duress. Some people carry stones around most of their lives without even knowing they're there (I have no idea how long the ones in me were there before my first attack), and the likelihood of them causing an emergency in the sky is remote. I felt fine and flew the morning before my first attack, and unlike your situation, the onset of my pain that night was gradual, gradual enough that had I been flying I'm pretty sure I could have gotten the plane on the ground before the situation got out of control. I didn't have another attack for 5 days, in fact, which is when they finally diagnosed it as stones and not food poisoning. Of course, having had the attack and the knowledge of the condition I didn't fly solo until the condition was clear (and only after an M.D.'s approval per the regs). Why am I blathering? Because I'm an adamant believer that a driver's license will be just fine for the Sport Pilot regs, and I'm concerned that there is already too much resistance (T.S. Agency, airlines, etc.) to the proposal. It sounds like you must have actually started passing the stone without warning, which I think is pretty rare (hey, I'm not a doctor), but kidney stones and most other medical issues statistically just don't account for enough of a problem in the skies to warrant additional restrictions on Sport Pilot and we need to keep a level perspective on them. Here's to many happy hours on NX115SM, unencumbered by bureaucracy! Mark Hodgson ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:25 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: kindey stones & contact lenses --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy >"kidney stones and most other medical issues statistically >just don't account for enough of a problem in the skies to warrant >additional restrictions" Great quote there, (above) from Mark H. Even the Class One physical ATP airline pilots that run 3 miles a day and eat veggies and low fat can have a coronary at the controls of a 737. (don't mind me, I'm typing outloud:) I think the FAA should have banned all pilots from wearing contact lenses too:)) (I'm kidding !!!) But I have to tell you guys what happened to me one night bringing a Tomahawk back for landing at night one summer in 1981. The runway was all lit up, everything was perfect......until I turned from downwind to base. My left contact lens slid off center and wound up over in the corner where it had gone before when I moved my eyes too fast for it to follow. For those of you who wore hard contacts before the soft ones were really available know that this experience causes extreme discomfort, tearing, and loss of clear vision out of one eye. So landing with one eye closed it wasn't the prettiest landing I've ever made but it was one of the most annoying to execute. Anything can happen while flying like those Yaks that have such tight clearance between the elevator assy. and the floor that a piece of hard candy can lock the controls and kill you if it gets in the wrong spot. Yikes ! Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:27 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Carl writes- >One thing puzzles me. There are two crashes (both >nonfatal, thank goodness) that don't show up. One is >that of Wm. Wynne in N1777W on 7/14/01 Good question! Several things may complicate the search for this one. One thing right away is that the NTSB lists it as a "Pitenpol Aircamper 1933" (see http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20010720X01467&key=1 and it's NTSB file MIA01LA186). Another is that William was not the pilot; he was the passenger. And so it goes-! The search engine is extremely precise, and if you have one little thing off in your search, it won't "hit". Another thing to watch for is that many folks call their airplanes "Smith Air Camper" or "Jones Aircamper" or "Frankenstein GN-1", or something else other than including "Pietenpol". You'd almost have to weed through all the NTSB reports with finer and finer search criteria, one by one, till you found the majority of possibles that you're looking for. For one thing, the NTSB database only goes back to 1962 and the Piet goes way further than that. I suppose you can rule out a bunch of possibles by searching only on experimentals. Then on single engine. Then... well, you get the idea. And BTW- any of you who have met John Dilatush (turbo Subaru Piet) are probably as amazed as I am to learn that he's in his mid 70's. The man is greatly understated as to his abilities and capabilities! (But we all know what his bladder capacity is, now that we heard his "gotta land" stories). Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:48 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" If a search is conducted for "Pietenpol", it will get all the Pietenpols. It will not get any "Aircampers" or "Davis Pietenpol" or "Big Piet". The search only looks for the registered name of the aircraft. Unfortunately a lot of builders register their planes with their names, so it makes searches almost impossible. William Wynne's might have bed registered as a "Pietenpol Aircamper" therefore it would be excluded from the search. ps: I don't know how his Piet was listed, just using his for an example. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Accident reports > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com > > Thanks for your efforts, Mark. One thing puzzles me. There are two crashes > (both nonfatal, thank goodness) that don't show up. One is that of Wm. Wynne in > N1777W on 7/14/01 and the other is a crash involving major damage to N63SB, > (resulting from loss of power due to loss of oil) flown by Jimmy Davenport > sometime in 1993. I have a feeling that the reporting of these incidents may be > "spotty". What do you think? Carl Vought > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:34 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have they? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" With all the inventions going around, has anyone ever made a cold weather flying canopy or Bubble?? this afternoon I was listening to the weather reports for tomorrow AM of mid 20's, and this popped into my head. In looking at the Piet, it's not out of the question. Kind of like a short AT-6 canopy for the rear hole. The older I get, the more I'm thinking of a closed cabin. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:54 PM PST US From: Michael Fisher Subject: Pietenpol-List: Talkeetna --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Fisher ----- Original Message ----- From: rhartwig11@juno.com Subject: Talkeetna > Mike, > I read your message on the Piet List. I don't know of any scouts for > sale, but will ask around and let you know if I find anything. > > I have read Don Sheldon's books and considered him a real hero. Is > Roberta Reeve Sheldon still living in Talkeetna? Her father, Bob > Reeve,is from our little town (The depot in town is dedicated to > his father.) > > Dick Hartwig > Waunakee WI > Dear Mr. Hartwig, I appreciate your offer to keep an eye open for a Scout. They are quite rare, compared to the Aircamper. I like the Scout for several reasons: A. It was designed after the Aircamper and embodies refinements based on experience. B. It can be built very light. The original plans state that it is heavier than necessary. C. The spars can be routed from 12 foot blanks (with a short splice near the tip). The 1.9 liter Ford, operated direct drive at an RPM suitable for a slow airplane is only capable of about 32 honest horsepower. This is not sufficient to carry two aloft with safe performance margins. There is really no substitute for displacement. The original "T" engine was about 3 liters, and the"A" engine almost 3.4 liters. Getting scalded with hot coolant after a rough landing was a common injury suffered by early Pietenpol pilots. The radiator had to be mounted high for the thermo-siphon system to work. I hope to eliminate this hazard. Roberta is still alive and well in Talkeetna. She has written books on the subjects of Alaska history and gold mining lore. One of her daughters is very interested in flying and family history. I've been working with her on Supercub and mountain operations. I flew for them for many years and now have a small, country machine shop - - mostly repair and modification work on mining equipment, riverboats, etc. Best regards, Mike Fisher ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:12 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" Douwe There are Contintals around every corner. www.barnstrrmers.com or on ebay, also Wentworth Aviation in Mpls, Mn. usually has lots of engines.. If you have built a short fuse you may want to go to a O-200 or other model with a starter and alternator for the extra weight up front. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > My project is in the final phase. I've always wanted to use a Ford, and even have one being worked on as I write. > > However, now that the "reality" is looking me in the face I am having second thoughts about the reliability factor. From what I've read, it would "appear" that a large majority of Ford flyers have experienced forced landings, which while usually fine out here in the midwest, isn't something I'd like to have to plan on. > > I'd like any feedback/opinions on this subject. And, if I did decide to go the Continental route, where is the best place to start looking, or are there shops out there selling yellowtagged units? > > Douwe > douweblumberg@earthlink.net > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:09 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Isablcorky@aol.com Walt, Waste of time. Who would ever need a canopy while flying a Piet. It takes a MAN to fly that plane Corky, a little boy in La ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:07 PM PST US From: "John McNarry" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have they? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" Walt, Its been very cold here and the air is so still the ride would be nice and firm. The kind'a ride where the only bumps you make, and the only vibration is the engine/prop. Have you considered a tonneau cover that zips up to your shoulder/neck level. If you could see your instruments and your arms could stay inside, all that needs to stick out is your head. Lots of good helmet choices around. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b evans Subject: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for a Pietenpol,,have they? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" With all the inventions going around, has anyone ever made a cold weather flying canopy or Bubble?? this afternoon I was listening to the weather reports for tomorrow AM of mid 20's, and this popped into my head. In looking at the Piet, it's not out of the question. Kind of like a short AT-6 canopy for the rear hole. The older I get, the more I'm thinking of a closed cabin. walt evans NX140DL = == == == == ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:28 PM PST US From: dave rowe aPietenpol, have.they?@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for aPietenpol,,have they? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe aPietenpol,,have they? From those of us who live in the great white north (Canada), in WW II, the Tiger Moth basic trainer was a little chilly in -40 temperatures, so someone came up with a snap-on, zip up canopy. If you already have a windshield, it can attach to that, only needs a couple of braces. Look at the boat covers with plastic windows sewn in, same idea. John McNarry wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John McNarry" > > Walt, > Its been very cold here and the air is so still the ride would be nice > and firm. The kind'a ride where the only bumps you make, and the only > vibration is the engine/prop. Have you considered a tonneau cover that > zips up to your shoulder/neck level. If you could see your instruments > and your arms could stay inside, all that needs to stick out is your > head. Lots of good helmet choices around. > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of w b > evans > To: piet discussion > Subject: Pietenpol-List: no one has made a successful canopy for a > Pietenpol,,have they? > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" > > With all the inventions going around, has anyone ever made a cold > weather flying canopy or Bubble?? > this afternoon I was listening to the weather reports for tomorrow AM of > mid 20's, and this popped into my head. In looking at the Piet, it's > not out of the question. Kind of like a short AT-6 canopy for the rear > hole. > The older I get, the more I'm thinking of a closed cabin. > > walt evans > NX140DL > > > == > == > == > == > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:41 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental pakette engine --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" I scanned the 60 pages or so of info I have on the continental packette engine that is about the size of an O-200 from a GPU. Does anyone need a copy of the CD? It is yours for a ten buck donation to EAA chapter 25. Chris Bobka ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:01 PM PST US From: "Alex Sloan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: kindey stones & contact lenses --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alex Sloan" Michael, Your experience with the contact reminded me of an experience I had in a C-150 on a student solo cross country back in 1970. I was on short final with a direct cross wind and about to touch down and the seat latch came loose and the seat slid all the way to the rear. Now, you have to realize that at 5'6" I do not have a lot of leg. I did not react as some would and so I did not pull on the control yoke to bring my self back up. I was lucky and flew the airplane around for a turn or two to gain control of myself and the seat. I was able to get it on the ground and shortly after that is when the FAA published a notice about this problem. I wrote them and agreed with them. Alex Sloan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: kindey stones & contact lenses > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > >"kidney stones and most other medical issues statistically > >just don't account for enough of a problem in the skies to warrant > >additional restrictions" > > > Great quote there, (above) from Mark H. Even the Class One physical ATP > airline pilots that run 3 miles a day and eat veggies and low fat can have > a coronary at the controls of a 737. (don't mind me, I'm typing outloud:) > > I think the FAA should have banned all pilots from wearing contact lenses > too:)) (I'm kidding !!!) But I have to tell you guys what happened to > me one night bringing a Tomahawk back for landing at night one summer in > 1981. The runway was all lit up, everything was perfect......until I > turned from downwind to base. My left contact lens slid off center and > wound up over in the corner where it had gone before when I moved my eyes > too fast for it to follow. For those of you who wore hard contacts before > the soft ones were really available know that this experience causes > extreme discomfort, tearing, and loss of clear vision out of one eye. So > landing with one eye closed it wasn't the prettiest landing I've ever made > but it was one of the most annoying to execute. Anything can happen while > flying like those Yaks that have such tight clearance between the elevator > assy. and the floor that a piece of hard candy can lock the controls and > kill you if it gets in the wrong spot. Yikes ! > > Mike C. do not archive > >