Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - WLAS... (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:47 AM - Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim (Gnwac@cs.com)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Hinges (John Dilatush)
4. 07:20 AM - Angle of Attack indicator (Jon Botsford)
5. 07:47 AM - Re: Angle of Attack indicator (DJ Vegh)
6. 08:01 AM - Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim (Hodgson, Mark O)
7. 09:32 AM - Re: Angle of Attack indicator (Ed Grentzer)
8. 09:53 AM - Re: Angle of Attack indicator (DJ Vegh)
9. 10:11 AM - Re: Angle of Attack indicator (Ed Grentzer)
10. 10:32 AM - my Corvair is alive and running (DJ Vegh)
11. 10:59 AM - Re: my Corvair is alive and running (John Ford)
12. 11:24 AM - Re: my Corvair is alive and running (Ken & Lisa Rickards)
13. 12:30 PM - Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim (Gary Gower)
14. 12:48 PM - Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim (angle of Attack) (Gary Gower)
15. 01:20 PM - Re: my Corvair is alive and running (carl loar)
16. 01:45 PM - Re: my Corvair is alive and running (w b evans)
17. 07:23 PM - Re: kindey stones & contact lenses (Kip & Beth Gardner)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Below are some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists
in that little message box on the Contribution form! Thank you to everyone
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Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, and High-performance and its your
direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that enables all of these
valuable services you've come to expect.
Thank you for your Contribution!!
SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
================================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
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-Clifford M.
...great service to the aviation community.
-Curt R.
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-Thomas R.
Your lists have been most helpful to my RV-9A project.
-Dean V.
...has been a great help to me.
-Jim N.
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is priceless.
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gnwac@cs.com
Great report so far, I look forward to read, "the rest of the story".
Thanks,
Greg
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave rowe" <rowed044@shaw.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hinges
==================================
Dave,
I investigated the possibility of using piano hinges to close the control
surface gaps but came to the conclusion they might not be flexible enough
for the application without a lot of hinge drag. Also, more work to build.
I therefore decided to go with the Pietenpol plans, using the old barn door
hinges. (With the eyes welded shut of course.)
Then to close the gap, I used some of this gap sealing tape that the glider
guys use. It has worked out well, absolutely no gap, weathered well and
most importantly, stays on!
I hope this helps,
John
=====================================
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
>
> Have just completed all the tail feathers, what a weekend. I know from
> my R/C big scale stuff, that gapless hinges make a huge difference in
> handling, especially at or near stall. Given the data coming out of the
> NTSB search (great work), I definately want gapless hinges on all
> surfaces. My thoughts for the ailerons and elevators was the use of
> stainless steel marine piano hinges, they are strong, light, can be cut
> to length, and are affordable. Please contribute your thoughts and
> experiences. Thanks guys, Dave Rowe
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Angle of Attack indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
The recent posting of accident reports has stirred my interest in an angle
of attack indicator. It seems that I have seen one in a magazine in recent
years. It was relatively simple and attached on the jury strut. Do any or
you know where plans can be found. It might be of interest to many of us.
Thanks,
Jon Botsford
In the sun for the first time in many days
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Wicks has one.... it's called a "bacon saver" mounts up to the jury struts.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Botsford
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack indicator
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
The recent posting of accident reports has stirred my interest in an angle
of attack indicator. It seems that I have seen one in a magazine in recent
years. It was relatively simple and attached on the jury strut. Do any or
you know where plans can be found. It might be of interest to many of us.
Thanks,
Jon Botsford
In the sun for the first time in many days
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
Chuck and Doc,
Thanks very much for your work and comments on the accident reports. As
mentioned before, Q & D searches can't find the ones listed under
"Pitenpol," (to give a noteworthy example), and as is so often the case
the hard way may be the definitive way. I plan to start building in
about 2 months and am very much interested in your final report; also
recommendations on how to rig an AOA indicator, etc.
do not archive
Mark Hodgson
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Does anyone know of an inexpensive or buildable audible stall warning
device??? The bacon saver is fine but I don't really think I will be looking
out at the strut when a stall situation sneaks up on me. One day several
years ago on a quiet, easy flying day I was lulled into distraction by my
passenger's questions on base leg in a 152 when the stall horn went
off.....Well it got my attention real quick and might have saved my/ our
butts.....Since then I have learned to NEVER let my airspeed get away from
me but I still have always wanted to install one on my Piet...I would...at
least in my busy home area need to have headsets on anyway. I've seen some
in cataloges but they are outragously overpriced. Ed G.
>From: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack indicator
>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:18:16 -0600
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
>
>The recent posting of accident reports has stirred my interest in an angle
>of attack indicator. It seems that I have seen one in a magazine in recent
>years. It was relatively simple and attached on the jury strut. Do any or
>you know where plans can be found. It might be of interest to many of us.
> Thanks,
>
>Jon Botsford
>
>In the sun for the first time in many days
>
>
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
a simple piezo buzzer wired to a micro switch that is activated by the bacon saver
arm might work.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Grentzer
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack indicator
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Does anyone know of an inexpensive or buildable audible stall warning
device??? The bacon saver is fine but I don't really think I will be looking
out at the strut when a stall situation sneaks up on me. One day several
years ago on a quiet, easy flying day I was lulled into distraction by my
passenger's questions on base leg in a 152 when the stall horn went
off.....Well it got my attention real quick and might have saved my/ our
butts.....Since then I have learned to NEVER let my airspeed get away from
me but I still have always wanted to install one on my Piet...I would...at
least in my busy home area need to have headsets on anyway. I've seen some
in cataloges but they are outragously overpriced. Ed G.
>From: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack indicator
>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:18:16 -0600
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
>
>The recent posting of accident reports has stirred my interest in an angle
>of attack indicator. It seems that I have seen one in a magazine in recent
>years. It was relatively simple and attached on the jury strut. Do any or
>you know where plans can be found. It might be of interest to many of us.
> Thanks,
>
>Jon Botsford
>
>In the sun for the first time in many days
>
>
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
=
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Good point DJ .... Make the microswitch adustable and play with it until
you get it where you want it.
I was thinking more along the lines of the vane type inside the leading
edge like Cessna uses but that
would be hard to make adustable.
>From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack indicator
>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:51:50 -0700
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
>a simple piezo buzzer wired to a micro switch that is activated by the
>bacon saver arm might work.
>
>DJ
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ed Grentzer
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack indicator
>
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer"
><flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Does anyone know of an inexpensive or buildable audible stall warning
>device??? The bacon saver is fine but I don't really think I will be
>looking
>out at the strut when a stall situation sneaks up on me. One day several
>years ago on a quiet, easy flying day I was lulled into distraction by my
>passenger's questions on base leg in a 152 when the stall horn went
>off.....Well it got my attention real quick and might have saved my/ our
>butts.....Since then I have learned to NEVER let my airspeed get away from
>me but I still have always wanted to install one on my Piet...I would...at
>least in my busy home area need to have headsets on anyway. I've seen some
>in cataloges but they are outragously overpriced. Ed G.
>
> >From: "Jon Botsford" <botsford7@hot.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack indicator
> >Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:18:16 -0600
> >
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jon Botsford"
><botsford7@hot.rr.com>
> >
> >The recent posting of accident reports has stirred my interest in an
>angle
> >of attack indicator. It seems that I have seen one in a magazine in
>recent
> >years. It was relatively simple and attached on the jury strut. Do any
>or
> >you know where plans can be found. It might be of interest to many of
>us.
> > Thanks,
> >
> >Jon Botsford
> >
> >In the sun for the first time in many days
> >
> >
>
>Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.
>https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
>
>
>>This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
>Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
>information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
><http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed
Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers.
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Message 10
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| Subject: | my Corvair is alive and running |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
I got my Corvair finished and running on Friday. Was a rush! After over a year
it's finally done. I'm still breaking it in but I get about 2750 rpm static
with a 66x29 Tenesee prop. This thing has some good power!
a QuickTime video of the first run is here:
www.imagedv.com/aircamper/first-run.mov
DJ
_
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: my Corvair is alive and running |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
Cool. Very cool...
do not archive
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> aircamper@imagedv.com Monday, November 10, 2003 1:30:15 PM >>>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
<aircamper@imagedv.com>
I got my Corvair finished and running on Friday. Was a rush! After
over a year it's finally done. I'm still breaking it in but I get about
2750 rpm static with a 66x29 Tenesee prop. This thing has some good
power!
a QuickTime video of the first run is here:
www.imagedv.com/aircamper/first-run.mov
DJ
_
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: my Corvair is alive and running |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken & Lisa Rickards" <KL0914@cogeco.ca>
Way to go DJ!!!
After seeing your assembly pictures, I got my but in gear and started on
mine. Still a ways behind you, but after seeing the video of yours running
can't wait to get to the construction phase of my motor.
Ken
Gn1 2992
Canada
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Snip)
> So far it seems lack of time in type is a factor in the hard
> landings, ground
> loops, and stalls. The other thing that comes to light, is that
> after an
> engine failure, a stall / spin occurs. I think most will be
> interested in a
> more detailed report, which I'll send out next. An informed pilot is
> a safer
> pilot.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
> NX770CG
>
IF we dont practice emergencies as a regular basis (All pilots here in
my club have to, twice a year (UL or private)), in case of an engine
off landing, the first reaccion (no pilot instictive movement) is to
slow the plane to save it (earth come close very fast to the novice
pilot) and a stall and spin is inevitable...
Saludos
Gary Gower
__________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Accident Report '66 to '03 Prelim (angle of |
Attack)
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
--- Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net>
>
>
> Chuck -
>
> Thanks for the good work on the Piet accident record. I shall be
> most
> interested in the final report.
>
> I am seeing Bob Mackey today. He is now the Falcon Insurance
> representative here in Oshkosh. He was the EAA vp of chapters, and
> also
> the EAA insurance guy. I want to be sure that Piets get a fair shake
> on
> insurance, with both "standard" airplane engines (like your
> Continental)
> and with converted automobile engines. I do not lump all converted
> auto
> engines in one box. I think the Ford, the VW of various types, and
> the
> Corvairs should each have their own evaluation. Same goes for Subaru
> and
> Ford Escort, etc.
>
> I know I am prejudging the results, but I think you will find that
> the Piet
> may have the stall/spin leading the way in causes of accidents. Some
> of
> these stall/spins are caused by engine failure. And in most
> certificated
> aircraft, the engine failure is caused by fuel problems. In fact,
> the
> Piet, being such a high drag airplane, the inattention of a surprised
> pilot
> may well lead into an inadvertent stall/spin more than the cleaner
> designs
> (152s, 172s, etc.) the Piet pilot trained on or has most experience
> in. I
> have a hunch that most of the Piet stall/spins are not straight ahead
>
> classic stalls. They result from a turn, often at low altitude, as
> the
> airplane is being lined up for the landing and the pilot is not
> paying
> attention to airspeed.
>
> I have long felt that an angle of attack indicator is almost a
> mandatory
> requirement for such high drag airplanes. These would be
> non-electric, of
> course. I love the Piet, but you should never treat gravity with
> levity,
> lest the earth arise and smite thee.
>
> Again, Chuck, thanks for the good work. I have an idea of how long
> and
> lonely the search can be.
>
> Doc
>
Doc,
All of the few fatalities in our club (but hurt a lot, were close
friends) are low speed/stall related.
We have the same idea, that is why we are installing a LRI in our first
Zenith 701 STOL, a high drag airplane, we have almost finished the kit.
The LRI is non electric (air hoses) see details in their web page:
http://www.liftreserve.com/
I am sure that it will save lots of lives...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
__________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: my Corvair is alive and running |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "carl loar" <skycarl@buckeye-express.com>
DJ,,, congrats,,,, isn't it a rush when that corvair pops and starts up for
the first time,, you expect it to happen but it still amazes you when it
does. They run smooth don't they?
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: my Corvair is alive and running
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> I got my Corvair finished and running on Friday. Was a rush! After over
a year it's finally done. I'm still breaking it in but I get about 2750 rpm
static with a 66x29 Tenesee prop. This thing has some good power!
>
> a QuickTime video of the first run is here:
>
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper/first-run.mov
>
> DJ
>
>
> _
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
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>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: my Corvair is alive and running |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
DJ,
Great video! I got excited just watching it. With all the pro's and con's
talked about, about Corvairs, keep us posted on the performance <sp>.
Every once in a while while flying, I think of all the pieces that I glued
and all the engine parts that I fitted and assembled, and when you are
flying in it, it is a real rush.
People that haven't done it will never know.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: my Corvair is alive and running
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <aircamper@imagedv.com>
>
> I got my Corvair finished and running on Friday. Was a rush! After over
a year it's finally done. I'm still breaking it in but I get about 2750 rpm
static with a 66x29 Tenesee prop. This thing has some good power!
>
> a QuickTime video of the first run is here:
>
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper/first-run.mov
>
> DJ
>
>
> _
>
> > This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by
Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more
information on an anti-virus email solution, visit
<http://www.halfpricehosting.com/av.asp>.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: kindey stones & contact lenses |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip & Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
At 12:25 PM -0500 11/07/03, Michael D Cuy wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
><Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
>
>>"kidney stones and most other medical issues statistically
>>just don't account for enough of a problem in the skies to warrant
>>additional restrictions"
>
>
>Great quote there, (above) from Mark H. Even the Class One physical ATP
>airline pilots that run 3 miles a day and eat veggies and low fat can have
>a coronary at the controls of a 737. (don't mind me, I'm typing outloud:)
>
>I think the FAA should have banned all pilots from wearing contact lenses
>too:)) (I'm kidding !!!) But I have to tell you guys what happened to
>me one night bringing a Tomahawk back for landing at night one summer in
>1981. The runway was all lit up, everything was perfect......until I
>turned from downwind to base. My left contact lens slid off center and
>wound up over in the corner where it had gone before when I moved my eyes
>too fast for it to follow. For those of you who wore hard contacts before
>the soft ones were really available know that this experience causes
>extreme discomfort, tearing, and loss of clear vision out of one eye. So
>landing with one eye closed it wasn't the prettiest landing I've ever made
>but it was one of the most annoying to execute.
>Mike C. do not archive
Mike,
Precisely the reason I gave up hard contacts (not flying, but a situation
where I needed to see & NOT be distracted - boy, what a distraction).
I went back to glasses & have never even considered contacts again.
Actually, having glasses hanging on my nose has saved my eyes on a couple
of occasions, so I don't really mind them; even geeks don't wear safety
goggles ALL the time!
Kip Gardner (back from a long weekend trip home to Ol' Virginia)
Do Not Archive
North Canton, OH
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