Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:46 AM - Rib Profile THANKS (Jack Textor)
2. 07:23 AM - Re: need a NACA report (Michael D Cuy)
3. 09:05 AM - Re: Good Fuselage?? (Hubbard, Eugene)
4. 09:11 AM - test (DJ Vegh)
5. 11:03 AM - Re: Good Fuselage?? (Carbarvo@aol.com)
6. 11:04 AM - Corvair engine site (Michael D Cuy)
7. 11:32 AM - Re: Corvair engine site (DJ Vegh)
8. 12:38 PM - 1st passenger,2nd time, lots of ice (w b evans)
9. 02:19 PM - Re: need a NACA report (Christian Bobka)
10. 02:55 PM - Re: need a NACA report (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
11. 05:22 PM - Re: need a NACA report (Christian Bobka)
12. 05:46 PM - Re: 1st passenger,2nd time, lots of ice (Ted Brousseau)
13. 08:08 PM - leather (Richard Navratil)
14. 08:12 PM - Re: leather (del magsam)
15. 08:28 PM - Re: leather (Michael Conkling)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rib Profile THANKS |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Textor" <jack@personnelincorporated.com>
Thanks to all that offered their thoughts, ideas and solutions!
Jack
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: need a NACA report |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Chris-- give this web site a try: http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hubbard, Eugene" <ehubbard@titan.com>
Eric,
First the disclaimer: I'm not a structural engineer, and I haven't run the
numbers for the Piet fuselage. I do understand a lot of the physics
involved. I built my Piet fuselage 1 inch spruce longerons.
You're calculations are correct, at least for tensile strength. Stiffness
depends on dimension squared, and goes down even faster. There's a MIL-SPEC
on spruce--I don't have the number handy, but someone on the list probably
does. It lists substitution recommendations for other woods, including
Douglas fir.
On the other hand, there seems to be a general consensus that the Piet is
overbuilt. You could check into the construction used for other wood planes
to get a feeling for what is done. The only data point I (think) I remember
is that I've seen an Ospery I amphibian that appeared to be built of 3/4
inch fir.
Doublers seem like an interesting idea. If I were going to do it that way,
I'd think about 8 long strips on the outsides of the corners, over the
gussets, with filler blocks between the gussets. 1/8 inch Douglas fir over
1/8 inch filler would probably bring your strength back to nominal.
Stiffness would (probably) be better than using 1" spruce. I'd worry a bit
about using a spruce doubler over Douglas Fir because of a difference in
stiffness (Young's modulus to be specific).
Let us know how you decide to go.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Williams [mailto:ewilliams805@msn.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good Fuselage??
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805@msn.com>
Hi everyone. This is my first posting to this list (although Ive been
lurking for a while) and I have a situation that I would really appreciate
any comments or suggestions on.
While at Oshkosh this year, a very good friend of mine, who has too many
airplanes in various stages of repair, offered to give me a Piet project
that he had acquired several years ago from a friend of his (the builder).
I picked up the project this past weekend and it consists of a completed
fuselage structure with the plywood skin on the forward half and the floor,
a complete set of wing ribs, and a complete set of tail surfaces.
The workmanship on the project looks to be acceptable however, one thing
that bothered me was the longerons and the other fuselage members appeared
to be small in cross-section. The builder happened to stop by while we were
loading it all onto my trailer. He said that he had used douglas fir and
since his research proved to him that fir was 25% stronger than spruce, he
had reduced the dimensions of the members by 25% (from 1" to 3/4"). The
problem with this line of thinking, as I see it, is that when you multiply
3/4" by 3/4" you end up with 0.56 square inches as the cross-sectional area
of the wood that was used, as compared to 1.00 square inch in a 1" x 1"
member. That means the longerons in my fuselage actually contain 44% less
material than had they been built using 1x1 stock.
I would sincerely appreciate any thoughts you all might have as to the
usability of this fuselage. I should say that it "feels" strong and I did
sit in it while it was supported at the approximate landing gear points and
there appeared to be no deflection or creaking at all (there were a few
engine noises made however). I also wonder if I might be able to epoxy some
1/4" strips to the various members for added strength? The builder said he
had used West System epoxy to construct it.
Thanks for your input.
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over
Message 4
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I just changed my email address and am testing.... sorry for any multiple posts
that may have come through
DJ
=
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Good Fuselage?? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carbarvo@aol.com
I say forget the structural analysis and concentrate on the guy who will
eventually buy your airplane (maybe from your widow). He needs to be convinced
that the plane is built to known practices. If deviations are taken, a convincing
arguement will have to be given to justify the variance from well established
practice. The easiest thing to do is build it per the drawings......Carl
Vought
Message 6
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| Subject: | Corvair engine site |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
For those of you new to the group or those who hadn't seen this yet and are
interested in using Corvair power for your Pietenpol, this is a very good
web site: http://flycorvair.com/
Mike C. enjoying 54 F on Nov. 17 th !
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine site |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
and don't forget
www.corvaircraft.com
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine site
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
For those of you new to the group or those who hadn't seen this yet and are
interested in using Corvair power for your Pietenpol, this is a very good
web site: http://flycorvair.com/
Mike C. enjoying 54 F on Nov. 17 th !
=
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Message 8
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| Subject: | 1st passenger,2nd time, lots of ice |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Took my first time passenger up again this afternoon. Although very hazey and
about 41f, had a nice ride. Seemed to have the carb heat on more than off, oh
well, it was fun.
Also second time using the intercom. Seemed once the mic was opened, her mic sent
the open exhaust noises straight to my ears. I know this has been a problem
discussed many times before, so I'll have to go to the archives to see the
input.
As much as I was disappointed with the Piet in bumpy air, which was discussed on
this group earlier, I was surprised at how a second person in the front seems
to settle it right down.
Ain't life grand!! Yes it is.
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: need a NACA report |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Mike Cuy:
It is not there. It is not report 767 nor TN 767 but it appears that the WR
means Wartime Report and I have no idea about the L. This report is
referenced by the famous articles done in 1963 by John Thorp in Sport
Aviaiton on minimizing cooling drag.
Any chance you can see if they have it where you work?
Chirs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need a NACA report
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> Chris-- give this web site a try: http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: need a NACA report |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
What's the report # and/or the title? I will search thru our files at work for
you tomorrow.
Terry B.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: need a NACA report |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Terry B.
It is titled "Improved Baffle Designs for Air-Cooled Engine Cylinders" and
is by Silverstein and Kinghorn NACA WR-L-767 from August 1943.
I have not been lucky looking in the usual places.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need a NACA report
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
>
>
> What's the report # and/or the title? I will search thru our files at
work for you tomorrow.
> Terry B.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 1st passenger,2nd time, lots of ice |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
Walt,
You have just discovered the second thrill of the Piet. After glowing with
pride of workmanship it gives you a life time of rewards from smiling
passengers. I spend Saturday from 10 AM to 4 PM giving Young Eagle rides
non-stop. Took 5 minutes to choke down a sausage under the wing for lunch
and it was back in the air.
Reminded me of giving rides at Brodhead. I went home and put in an extra
hour on my new Piet.
Cheers,
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1st passenger,2nd time, lots of ice
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
>
> Took my first time passenger up again this afternoon. Although very hazey
and about 41f, had a nice ride. Seemed to have the carb heat on more than
off, oh well, it was fun.
> Also second time using the intercom. Seemed once the mic was opened, her
mic sent the open exhaust noises straight to my ears. I know this has been
a problem discussed many times before, so I'll have to go to the archives to
see the input.
> As much as I was disappointed with the Piet in bumpy air, which was
discussed on this group earlier, I was surprised at how a second person in
the front seems to settle it right down.
> Ain't life grand!! Yes it is.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
Message 13
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I would like to challange the collective knowledge and limits of the group. My
appologies in advance.
After a great week of deer hunting I have 2 nice large buck hides. They will make
nice trim and seats if I tan them properly.
Does anyone have any experience with leather? I know some of the basics. So far
I have covered them in salt and stretched them on a rack and started scraping
them. Iknow the old indian method would be to pee on it for the salt, scrape
and work in beef or pork fat.
I've tried the sporting good and western stores but havent found any info on this.
Dick N.
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
There is a place in Roberts Wi (near hudson) that does that. they will trade your
fresh hides for cured deer hides. I could hunt up their name if that interests
you.
Del
Richard Navratil <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil"
I would like to challange the collective knowledge and limits of the group. My
appologies in advance.
After a great week of deer hunting I have 2 nice large buck hides. They will make
nice trim and seats if I tan them properly.
Does anyone have any experience with leather? I know some of the basics. So far
I have covered them in salt and stretched them on a rack and started scraping
them. Iknow the old indian method would be to pee on it for the salt, scrape
and work in beef or pork fat.
I've tried the sporting good and western stores but havent found any info on this.
Dick N.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs@southwind.net>
Dick,
You might visit with some of the folks that are into blackpowder, etc.
Doesn't Corky have any neighbors you can ask how to do it??
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leather
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil"
<horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> I would like to challange the collective knowledge and limits of the
group. My appologies in advance.
> After a great week of deer hunting I have 2 nice large buck hides. They
will make nice trim and seats if I tan them properly.
> Does anyone have any experience with leather? I know some of the basics.
So far I have covered them in salt and stretched them on a rack and started
scraping them. Iknow the old indian method would be to pee on it for the
salt, scrape and work in beef or pork fat.
> I've tried the sporting good and western stores but havent found any info
on this.
> Dick N.
>
>
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