Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - fiberglass (Clif Dawson)
2. 12:22 AM - Why I love fibreglass (Clif Dawson)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project (dan john)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: Why I love fibreglass (dan john)
5. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project (Kent Hallsten)
6. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project (Christian Bobka)
7. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project (Mike)
8. 11:03 AM - '99 dawn patrol over Brodhead (Michael D Cuy)
9. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project (Jim Markle)
10. 12:52 PM - (Larry Ragan)
11. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project (dan john)
12. 01:42 PM - red betsy (Richard Navratil)
13. 01:55 PM - Re: red betsy (w b evans)
14. 04:40 PM - Re: Another fuselage width question (john e fay)
15. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project (Christian Bobka)
16. 06:37 PM - Re: (Ken & Lisa Rickards)
17. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: (Larry Ragan)
18. 08:23 PM - Fw: CorvAircraft>Corvair College V update (Christian Bobka)
19. 09:50 PM - Re: Fw: CorvAircraft>Corvair College V update (Mike)
Message 1
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pietenpol-list@matronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
For those of you plugging away with
fiberglass parts;
http://sonex260.wheelsup.org/Plug/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Why I love fibreglass |
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
> For your amusement here follows a numbered sequence of e-mails to my
> daughter who likes to keep apprized of my progress... The project is a
> nosebowl. - Ken
>
>
> 1. Have I mentioned why I love fibreglass ?
>
> This all started when I went to get a 2" thick piece of blue foam which
> I calculated would do nicely for a plug, laminated 3 layers thick. Paid
> for it. But whoa there is no 2" foam in the yard. Closest yard that
> stocks it is 20 mi in wrong direction and if this yard doesn't really
> have any can I believe the next one does. Hmmm Accept the guys offer and
> grab 2 pieces of 1" foam while griping about the extra laminations and
> glue joints.
>
> Make plug. Takes a day or so but maybe this isn't so bad.
>
> Cut a v groove to remove hard glue from surface of plug at laminations
> and then filling groove with plaster. Apply plaster to entire mold in
> several steps. Another day goes by or is it two?
>
> Apply coat of paint to seal the mold. Seems to take a long time to dry
> and doesn't sand very well. More cutting and plastering. Apply nother
> coat of paint. Whoa this primer sealer is not latex. What the?? Didn't
> think I had any primer sealer that wasn't latex. Grab rags and jug of
> varsol and clean off the still wet coat of paint. Make a little oven to
> speed things up. Oops 300 watt light bulb gets a little too warm and
> melts a little foam. More plaster. Nother day gone.
>
> Add several coats of LATEX interspersed with plaster repairs here and
> there. We all know that a coat of paint always highlights imperfections
> and my advisor has said that gellcoat will copy even a fingerprint...
> Notice that this is not getting any better. Each brushed coat of paint
> just adds more brush streaks... Try to spray a coat. Too thick won't
> spray. Try a spray coat of polyester filler. After all this thing has to
> be sealed by now. Wrong. Polyester seeps through and dissolves foam in a
> couple of spots. More plaster. Hmmm one batch of filler sands other
> batch is gummy. Guess I didn't get enough hardener in that batch. Nother
> Day.
>
> Scrape and add more plaster. Oh well at least this thing is heavy enough
> now to keep the wind from blowing it over. Succeed in spraying a coat of
> latex paint but it is too thin and can't stop it from running. Sand the
> runs. More plaster. Clearly this would be easier if all the coats of
> paint weren't white which is also the colour of the plaster. Add some
> tint. Tint plugs spray gun. Brush on the second coat of latex paint.
> Plaster bubbles appear. Why now? Have decided that I have slipped into
> an alternate universe. Or I'm just cursed!
>
> By the time I get this sorted out it will be too cold to make the mold
> anyway. Yes sequence is plug, then mold, then part, and I'm still
> plugging...
>
> K. pax?
> alternate universe?
>
>
> 2. Nosebowl plug is presently resting under an infra red lamp.
>
> Of course it's basically a hunk of foam so a new dent appears every time
> you move it. More plaster.
>
> Speaking of dents I have now made a dent in a large bottle of wine.
>
> Things are looking up. I'll just clean off that plaster and replace it
> with polyester body filler. It should harden quickly - you know before
> the foam melts...
>
>
> 3. Some guys never learn.
>
> Drank wine.
> Sanded plug.
> Added more plaster.
> Sanded
> Painted
> more
&%$ bubbles
> you can actually see the gas forming but don't know what it is.
> tomorrow I make the mold as is before it gets any worse.
> Then it's Bondo (body filler) time or bonfire time...
>
> Im starting to understand how this could get annoying
>
>
> 4. Sanded the plug and gellcoated it. After all Ill get a chance to
> clean it up a bit later. Im a little concerned that it took more than
> an hour for the gellcoat to start to harden. Left it in a warm place
> (you remember the light bulbs?) overnight but the surface is still very
> sticky. I think maybe I have laminating gellcoat without wax in which
> case I think the surface should remain sticky before laminating and all
> is well. Not positive though as last time I used a gellcoat to make a
> little water pond the surface set hard. The vendor might have added wax
> for that though.
>
> 5. Thanks for helping adding the two layers of mat and resin to make
> the mold on the weekend. Oh yes we decided to refer to it as a smold
> didnt we? That went well but you can see that it could have been a
> challenge doing it by myself. Cutting the mat with sticky resin coated
> fingers and such... Almost as much fun as proseal!
>
> I ripped out the first 1" layer of foam and was delighted to find that
> the gellcoat seems to be hard. Lots of work still but we have a workable
> smold :) Hurray!
>
> Maybe the curse is hidden under the next 5" of foam but it just might
> have moved on to some other formerly happy builder foolish enough to
> dabble with fibreglass!
>
> The five coats of wax between the plug and the gell coat is a bit
> tenacious but I think it will separate with some effort. Of course the
> edge is held tight by the resin. That plaster just keeps hangin in
there...
>
> 6. OK we have a female mold with gellcoat and 2 layers of mat.
> The additional dollar cost (we are definitely NOT tallying the labour)
> was only about $35. to make the smold. I think this way will result in
> a lighter part. The pro that I talked to wouldn't even consider doing it
> without a mold and I now see that he may have been right. At least Im
> starting to get a feel for this. Theoretically the smold will let me
> try again even if I mess up the final piece but surely that wont be
> necessary.
>
> Spent a couple of hours chipping the foam out of the smold. Of course
> the plaster stayed in, just the foam chipped out. However the layer of
> plaster/paint separated cleanly off the 5 layers of wax once the foam
> was removed. Well except for around the openings but that only took
> another hour or so of chipping. Kind of like removing packing tape when
> you cant find the end.
>
> Smold doesnt look too bad. Sand, add some body filler here and there.
> (no more stinkin plaster at least). More sanding, more body filler, you
> get the idea.. Hmm at least the plaster did sand easily.
>
> Put a coat of wax on. Shiny surface. Now I can really see the defects.
> More sanding, More body filler. More Wax. OK deja vu, I could do this
> forever. Besides I can always touch up the final part a bit... Quick
> five coats of wax. OK not so quick - wax wait 30 minutes, wax again etc,
> let dry for several hours after final coat.
>
> Well I was never so deranged that I thought Id get a one piece
> separation of the plug from the smold but it does occur to me that I
> wont be able to chip the smold off the nose bowl. Maybe a couple more
> layers of wax wouldnt hurt. Wish I hadnt read that article explaining
> that no matter how many coats of polish one puts on a car, the polish
> layer wont get any thicker. The wax manufacturer calls for 5 coats but
> he might have a conflict of interest. Ahh but maybe wax is different
> than polish eh?
>
> A couple more light gentle coats so as to not remove whats already
> there. Thats the ticket! Gee you can really see the little surface
> flaws really stand out now.
>
> 7. I precut all the cloth since the sun was poking through the clouds
> nicely. Then the sun went away and it got too cold to use the resin :( .
> Oddly now that I convinced myself that gellcoat wasn't supposed to
> harden on the air side, it did this time. Guess I'll have to sand it
> before applying the cloth...
>
> 8. Well the nosebowl layup didn't go quite as well as I had hoped. The
> one time I would have liked the resin to take a really long time to
> harden... Oh well went at it with the body grinder and some more
> fibreglass the next day and I think it will be useable.
>
> Presently filling the 4th green garbage bag with debris from this
> environmentally responsible endeaver and that does not count the smold
> itself.
>
> 9. Well the smold did not surrender the nosebowl willingly. I jammed
> putty knives, strips of aluminum, etc. in to try and separated them. I
> hammered it. I put it on the floor and jumped on it. Finally I started
> hammering foot long tapered strips of cedar shingles in and ker-bang out
> the sucker came. At 4 lbs it is about twice as heavy as a commercial
> nosebowl. Oh well I think I'll touch it up with just a little more
Bondo...
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol as a School Project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
Chris,yep,thats the way it`s done.Friend of mine built
the sides for a Woodhopper that way,then hung them on
his basement wall and went south for the winter.Came
back in the spring and found all the pieces laying on
the floor.I thought he had just screwed up so I asked
him for the rest of the glue.My son and I did some
test pieces that seemed OK so we built the wings for
our Fisher 101 using it.After 3 to 4 years we had to
retire the plane because we kept finding broken glue
joints.There is no way I would trust my neck to that
glue again! John P.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Why I love fibreglass |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
Chris,just a quick tip. If you give the foam - plaster
a coating of deleted water putty before the latex
paint it really helps seal everything up.I believe I
gave my Emeraude cowling mold two coats. John P.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol as a School Project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
>
> Chris,yep,thats the way it`s done.Friend of mine built
> the sides for a Woodhopper that way,then hung them on
> his basement wall and went south for the winter.Came
> back in the spring and found all the pieces laying on
> the floor.
>
Dan,
You're talking about Aerolite?
Kent
T-88 user
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol as a School Project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Yes, Kent. I used Aerolite for my ribs and have had no problem. They were
built 10 years ago. I used mahoghany ply gussets.
If you guys used birch ply, did you scuff sand the whole sheet of plywood to
break the glaze as recommended by Bingelis?
chris
in minneapolis, not sacremento
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten"
<KHallsten@Governair.com>
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Chris,yep,thats the way it`s done.Friend of mine built
> > the sides for a Woodhopper that way,then hung them on
> > his basement wall and went south for the winter.Came
> > back in the spring and found all the pieces laying on
> > the floor.
> >
>
>
> Dan,
> You're talking about Aerolite?
>
> Kent
> T-88 user
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol as a School Project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Please be specific. Exactly which glue are you referring to?
on 12/15/03 7:20, dan john at ballmell@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
>
> Chris,yep,thats the way it`s done.Friend of mine built
> the sides for a Woodhopper that way,then hung them on
> his basement wall and went south for the winter.Came
> back in the spring and found all the pieces laying on
> the floor.I thought he had just screwed up so I asked
> him for the rest of the glue.My son and I did some
> test pieces that seemed OK so we built the wings for
> our Fisher 101 using it.After 3 to 4 years we had to
> retire the plane because we kept finding broken glue
> joints.There is no way I would trust my neck to that
> glue again! John P.
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | '99 dawn patrol over Brodhead |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Chuck-- I can't take credit for doing any dawn patrol flying at Brodhead
'99 for the big gathering headed for the
75th Anniversary of the Piet design at Oshkosh. I stayed overnight at
Watertown, Wisconsin and slept at a comfy Holiday Inn Express right on the
airport with a second floor room that faced the runway and my plane tied
down under the lights of a pretty green and white beacon rotating all night
long. If you had white knuckles flying around Brodhead this past July,
you should have seen it when they peaked out with double that amount in the
air. I had the Champ there in 1992 with the door off giving rides and my
head was on a swivel like you wouldn't believe. Felt like what O'hare
might have been like in 1933 or something. Most of the guys knew too that
you need to be able to make the runway from anywhere in the pattern should
your engine quit.....but we had some airline type approaches that you see
at lots of fly-in's that stretch the traffic pattern out over
Detroit. Nothing like shooting a 3 mile final at a grassroots
fly-in........waste of time !
Mike C.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol as a School Project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Chris,
Well, you certainly join a lot of others that have used Aerolite on the
ribs.
I'm curious if you made any significant design changes....like to the width
of the fuse or anything else to the original design (I'm assuming you built
the Air Camper or maybe it was a Scout)?
Just curious.
Jim in Plano.....bead blasting and powder coating......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
<bobka@compuserve.com>
>
> Yes, Kent. I used Aerolite for my ribs and have had no problem. They
were
> built 10 years ago. I used mahoghany ply gussets.
>
> If you guys used birch ply, did you scuff sand the whole sheet of plywood
to
> break the glaze as recommended by Bingelis?
>
> chris
>
> in minneapolis, not sacremento
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten"
> <KHallsten@Governair.com>
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Chris,yep,thats the way it`s done.Friend of mine built
> > > the sides for a Woodhopper that way,then hung them on
> > > his basement wall and went south for the winter.Came
> > > back in the spring and found all the pieces laying on
> > > the floor.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Dan,
> > You're talking about Aerolite?
> >
> > Kent
> > T-88 user
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com>
Is there a data base for listings of Piets in Canada? I have a pic of C-FTJM and
I'd like to find out more about it.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan@hotmail.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol as a School Project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
The Aerolite.
Message 12
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I was driving by a local movie theatre and saw Red Betsy listed showing. Isnt
that the one with the Piet in it?
If so has anyone seen it?
Dick
Message 13
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
That's it. But I've only seen the movie trailers on their web site.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: red betsy
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil"
<horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> I was driving by a local movie theatre and saw Red Betsy listed showing.
Isnt that the one with the Piet in it?
> If so has anyone seen it?
> Dick
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Another fuselage width question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: john e fay <jefay@juno.com>
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:55:01 -0500 At7000ft@aol.com writes:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: At7000ft@aol.com
>
>
> This is exactly what I was proposing. However in searching the
> archives I can't find anyone who has done it this way, they all
> widen from the firewall back. Has anyone built their fuselage this
> way?
Rick,
I have not yet built my fuselage, but that is my plan also, to keep the
fuselage the full 24" width to the back of the pilot's seat. One of the
first Pietenpol forums I attended at OSH I asked Vi Kapler about this and
he said it should be no problem, especially in my case since I was
planning to build the long fuselage. The long fuselage (if I remember
this right, but I haven't checked the plans about this for about 2 years)
adds about 10 inches to the length of the total fuselage, and 6-8 inches
of this is behind the pilot's seat. That shouldn't make the bending much
more severe. But if you are worried about making the bends OK, another
option is to laminate the whole longeron out of thinner strips, building
in the bend.
John Fay in Peoria
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol as a School Project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
No, Jim These were the Waco Taperwing ribs.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle"
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Chris,
>
> Well, you certainly join a lot of others that have used Aerolite on the
> ribs.
>
> I'm curious if you made any significant design changes....like to the
width
> of the fuse or anything else to the original design (I'm assuming you
built
> the Air Camper or maybe it was a Scout)?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Jim in Plano.....bead blasting and powder coating......
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
> <bobka@compuserve.com>
> >
> > Yes, Kent. I used Aerolite for my ribs and have had no problem. They
> were
> > built 10 years ago. I used mahoghany ply gussets.
> >
> > If you guys used birch ply, did you scuff sand the whole sheet of
plywood
> to
> > break the glaze as recommended by Bingelis?
> >
> > chris
> >
> > in minneapolis, not sacremento
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kent Hallsten" <KHallsten@Governair.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kent Hallsten"
> > <KHallsten@Governair.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > > Chris,yep,thats the way it`s done.Friend of mine built
> > > > the sides for a Woodhopper that way,then hung them on
> > > > his basement wall and went south for the winter.Came
> > > > back in the spring and found all the pieces laying on
> > > > the floor.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan,
> > > You're talking about Aerolite?
> > >
> > > Kent
> > > T-88 user
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken & Lisa Rickards" <KL0914@cogeco.ca>
Re: Canadian Data Base
Look up the registration in the "Transport Canada" database @
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activepages/ccarcs/en/default_e.asp?x_lang=e
This will give you some information to work with.
Ken
Gn1 2992 Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com>
>
> Is there a data base for listings of Piets in Canada? I have a pic of
C-FTJM and I'd like to find out more about it.
>
>
> Larry Ragan
> Jacksonville, Fl.
> lragan@hotmail.com
>
>
Message 17
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com>
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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Put
me right on it. Thanks
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Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan@hotmail.com
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Fw: CorvAircraft>Corvair College V update |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
For those of you not on the corvair list, William Wynne is having a Corvair
College in Hanford, California on Jan 17-18. See the links below. The last
one has a map that shows where Hanford is. I would go but my boys birthday
is that weekend.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: RE: CorvAircraft>Corvair College V update
>
> > > Although the website isn't fully functioning yet,
> > > I've completed the hotel/motel page:
> > > http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/WCCCHotel.html
> >
> > Here's another page I just completed:
> > http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/CommercialAir.html
> >
> > Airline information.
>
> Another page is completed:
> http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/Driving.html
>
> Driving directions.
>
> As a reminder, the Corvair College is FREE!!!!
>
> Pat
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> See CorvAircraft list details at
http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: CorvAircraft>Corvair College V update |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Hanford isn't far from the great fly-in restaurant at Harris Ranch.
Christian Bobka wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
>
> For those of you not on the corvair list, William Wynne is having a Corvair
> College in Hanford, California on Jan 17-18. See the links below. The last
> one has a map that shows where Hanford is. I would go but my boys birthday
> is that weekend.
>
> chris bobka
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
> To: "'Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft'" <corvaircraft@mylist.net>
> Subject: RE: CorvAircraft>Corvair College V update
>
> >
> > > > Although the website isn't fully functioning yet,
> > > > I've completed the hotel/motel page:
> > > > http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/WCCCHotel.html
> > >
> > > Here's another page I just completed:
> > > http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/CommercialAir.html
> > >
> > > Airline information.
> >
> > Another page is completed:
> > http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/Driving.html
> >
> > Driving directions.
> >
> > As a reminder, the Corvair College is FREE!!!!
> >
> > Pat
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > See CorvAircraft list details at
> http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
>
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