---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/08/04: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:55 AM - Re: Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings (Jack Phillips) 2. 08:31 AM - Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings (John Dilatush) 3. 10:22 AM - Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings (At7000ft@aol.com) 4. 10:38 AM - Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings (Ken Chambers) 5. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Airfoil stuff (At7000ft@aol.com) 6. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Airfoil stuff (At7000ft@aol.com) 7. 11:05 AM - a view from the pilot's seat in a Pietenpol w/ a passenger (Michael D Cuy) 8. 11:06 AM - Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings (At7000ft@aol.com) 9. 11:07 AM - Brodhead from the air---from a Piet (Michael D Cuy) 10. 11:17 AM - Re: Spam Alert: Re: Re: Airfoil stuff (Boss) 11. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Airfoil stuff (Textor, Jack) 12. 11:46 AM - Re: Brodhead from the air---from a Piet (Fred Weaver) 13. 11:52 AM - Re: Brodhead from the air---from a Piet (Jim Markle) 14. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: Airfoil stuff (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 15. 12:30 PM - Re: a view from the pilot's seat in a Pietenpol w/ a passenger (Isablcorky@aol.com) 16. 01:23 PM - Great Photos (John Dilatush) 17. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings (At7000ft@aol.com) 18. 01:37 PM - what medical ? (Michael D Cuy) 19. 01:42 PM - Re: Great Photos (Michael D Cuy) 20. 02:28 PM - Re: Great Photos (w b evans) 21. 02:57 PM - Texas Pietenpols? (KRSBtv@aol.com) 22. 03:28 PM - Re: Texas Pietenpols? (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 23. 03:52 PM - Re: Texas Pietenpols? (KRSBtv@aol.com) 24. 04:43 PM - Re: what medical ? (Christian Bobka) 25. 05:09 PM - Re: Great Photos (Dave and Connie) 26. 06:13 PM - Re: what medical ? (Fred Weaver) 27. 06:24 PM - Re: Texas Pietenpols? (Doyle K. Combs) 28. 06:28 PM - great photos (Richard Navratil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:10 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings Good Post, Chris. I agree completely. Besides, most people make someomodifications to the design and this would make CAD plans much less useful. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Catdesign Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings To All, I took the time to draw all the Piet fittings in CAD but have found them to be just slightly different then what I need for my plane so I don't use them. I have not shared them out (and will not so don't ask) because I feel it might lead someone to believe you can make all the metal fittings ahead of time. Don't do this! Make your fittings fit your assembly. Thankfully, I found this out right before I ordered my fittings from Replicraft, who went under not a week later. I would have also lost money to him if I didn't get the parts and even if I did I would still have lost money because I bet they would not have fit my plane. That is when I decided to learn how to build my own metal fittings. It's not that hard but can be frustrating at times. Fortunately, there is enough to build so I could work on something else until I was ready tackle that problem piece again. MY OPINION BELOW DON"T READ IF YOU DON"T WANT TO HEAR IT: you have been warned. Van's Aircraft is able to produce pre-punched RV kits that fits together so precise that it's amazing. They can do this because every piece is cut and drilled by computer controlled machines that are capable of using the accuracy CAD affords a manufacturer. This type of accuracy is just not possible in our (my) garage. Even if all the plans were drawn in CAD I doubt your (my) building accuracy is THAT accurate. Honestly, your construction does not need to be accurate to the .01 inch. I have built model airplanes from comercially produced CAD drawing and they still have errors. Drawing in CAD does not make plans any better or worse. You still need to mesure where the part is going to fit and make the part fit the assembly. Try to keep the dimentions as close as possible to the plans but ALLWAYS make the part to fit the assembly. It's just thet simple. I feel there is no need to take the time to redraw the plans in CAD. The most helpfull things are pictures of assemblies and parts. These can be had by simply asking anyone on this list. I will freely shair pictures I have collected to all that needs them and I know others will too. To all you first time builders, of which I an one too, take the time to study the plans. All the information is on them even if it doesn't look like it at first glance. It is also helpfull to hafe the Flying and Glider Mag the EAA sells. Make you parts fit not to the dimentions on the plans but to YOUR plane. After awhile you will get comfertable with the plans and think they are adiquite. Tones of Piet's have been built from them so they can't be that bad. Just my 2 cents sorry for the length Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:00 AM PST US From: "John Dilatush" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings ================================= Corky and Chuck, When I made the first landing in my Piet, it was a disaster! Like you Corky, I expected to be able to come over the fence at about 60 or so, just ease back on the stick and let it down easy. Instead the damn'd plane fell out from under me and I lost it. The crash landing could probably be heard for miles, directional control was non-existent and I was just a passenger in the beast! When the dust settled I found that the jenny type gear had stood up well, the engine had not fallen off and there was no damage at all. Bless Mr. Pietenpol for designing one stout airplane! Then, I started to evaluate the situation and after some practice found that a little more airspeed with even a little power could produce excellent landings. But here is the big advantage of the airfoil and the design. The drag means that it doesn't need flaps to make a steep approach, visibility is excellent and besides, you need the extra airspeed anyway. And then this surplus energy can be translated into a little float if you want it. When you round the plane out the a three point attitude, it will stop quickly on the ground. If you are trying to get into a short field, then use the steep approach with a little less airspeed, time it right, bring the nose up and don't expect any float but keep coming right back on the stick and let it plop on. A short field landing like this can be done in just a couple of hundred feet over obstructions like you wouldn't believe. In short, once you figure out how to use these flight characteristics, it is an excellent short field plane. I guess this is why a Pietenpol was once described as a "Pasture Pilots Plane". Corky, I'm with Chuck, learn to use the advantages of the design and one can put it down almost anywhere without problem. Your landings will astound and amaze all those airport bums standing around who are grading all the touch and goes! John ==================================== > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/7/04 10:37:18 AM Central Standard Time, > Isablcorky@aol.com writes: > > << I have flown many types of planes, SEL, > but have never flown one that has no float, high drag, and a sudden drop out > on landing like a Piet. I know it's safe if you expect it but I sure would > like > to float like a Cub, Champ or even a Beaver. >> > > I suggest keep it the same airfoil for several reasons: > 1. It's part of avaition history. > 2. It works. > 3. It allows you to use drag to advantage, especially in emergency landing, > to do a precise short field landing. > > Several times this fall, I would stay in the pattern for an hour, 500' AGL on > short final and just do steep slip down to maybe 50 to 80', maintain 60 mph > indicated, low power setting, straighten 'er right up, spot a short field > landing. Every landing is different, but it's a blast to explore the capabilities > of sweet flying plane !! > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:54 AM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings Doesn't even have to be anything as drastic as changing airfoils although anything could be an option. I would just like to see an AutoCad plan set of the original design (long fuselage, I would assume that the Model A builders would want to use the original paper plans?) with what most builders would agree are "necessay" additions, seat/shoulder belts, tail wheel with steering attachments, the front angled cabane strut from the engine mount bracket, nut/bolt sizes, etc. Plus modifications most builders do and Bernie himself suggested in later years, extended fuselage, longer center cabanes, etc. Plus multiple 3D perspective views of everything which only take seconds to create with AutoCad once the dimensions of everything are entered. (I would love to have a perspective view of the 3 piece wing center section plans). More drastic (and controversial) changes such as airfoil, control surface changes, etc. could be presented as options on separate plansets. With the decrease in plan building in general, and the low completion percentage something like this can only help. And you couldn't pick a better, simpler and more reasonably priced homebuild design to provide a good modernized set of plans for than the Piet. Rick Holland I agree the Piet plans should be available as CAD files, and I think a Piet airfoil initiative similar to the one undertaken by the KR group might be a good idea too. I know, I know -- it=E2=80=99s blasphemous to suggest changing Bernard=E2=80=99 s =E2=80=9CFC-10=E2=80=9D airfoil. And it=E2=80=99s a thing of beauty, no doubt. But this plane would be safer if it could hang in the air longer without power. A lower drag airfoil would help and we might get a little better cruise, too. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings From: "Ken Chambers" Chuck I understand those who like the airplane just as it flies. I think everyone should get the chance to fly an original Pietenpol with the original airfoil. It's a unique piece of history, and it's a blessing that we can build it and fly it just the way it was designed way back when. It should always be that way. Meanwhile, why shouldn't we develop another airfoil option for those who want a little less drag and maybe a lower stall speed? One member of this list (I forget who) summed up the NTSB Pietenpol crash stats by saying we could avoid about half of all accidents by "keeping it full of gas and keeping the airspeed up". A lower drag airfoil would help make the Pietenpol safer in both those circumstances (engine out and stalls) plus many of the other situations that led to crashes. There's a great airfoil forum I ran across on the Web a few months ago. I'll see if I can find it and have them look over Kevin's "FC-10" numbers at www.airminded.net . Maybe we'll get some recommendations for airfoils with similar characteristics but lower drag. If anyone else who knows more about this than I do (and that should be just about everyone on the list) wants to start looking at numbers and talking to the gurus, I think it would be a great way to get started. Ken in Austin, thinking about holding off on the ribs a while longer ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:20 AM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoil stuff I agree, I can almost feel a purist vs. GN-1 type war starting. Didn't people build GN-1s with J-3 wings? Would be interesting to know how those flew. I am building a long fuse piet and have not yet flown one but I have heard the same thing from several Piet bulder/flyers as Corky mentions, that the Piet has no float (although it sounds like most people love the way it flys otherwise). This may be a real dumb idea but has anyone ever built a Piet wing to the plans and just removed the undercamber (make a flat bottom out of it)? Rick Holland Please keep this discussion on airfoil going. I feel the Piet's performance could be improved, especially landing. I have flown many types of planes, SEL, but have never flown one that has no float, high drag, and a sudden drop out on landing like a Piet. I know it's safe if you expect it but I sure would like to float like a Cub, Champ or even a Beaver. I have my ribs completed for 311CC but would be willing to build another set with another proven airfoil if I knew what to try. I mean no disrespect to BHP or the purists. If we didn't want to improve it we would all be building and flying Wright Flyers and/or Curtiss Pushers. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:55 AM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoil stuff Concerning Piet airfoil changes, if you plot the points from the 1934 wing plans on top of the single sheet rib plans that you get from Don (which Bernie himself signed, so I assume it is a tracing of one of his later rib creations), you will find that the undercamber is 6/32" LESS at the center and proportionally decreases to the front and back spar. Maybe Bernie himself detemined in later years that you need that much undercamber. (Or I don't know how to measure off of plans ). Rick Holland You know....... A great candidate would be the 23012 used on the Taylorcraft.... Good lift, great cruise speed/low drag, and good float on landing... Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings Ken, Please keep this discussion on airfoil going. I feel the Piet's performance could be improved, especially landing. I have flown many types of planes, SEL, but have never flown one that has no float, high drag, and a sudden drop out on landing like a Piet. I know it's safe if you expect it but I sure would like to float like a Cub, Champ or even a Beaver. I have my ribs completed for 311CC but would be willing to build another set with another proven airfoil if I knew what to try. I mean no disrespect to BHP or the purists. If we didn't want to improve it we would all be building and flying Wright Flyers and/or Curtiss Pushers. Corky in 23 above La weather ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:27 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: a view from the pilot's seat in a Pietenpol w/ a passenger Walt-- great pic. You got the teaching technique down, brother ! Here is one for those of us caught in the cold nawth......and even those who can still fly in the south like Jim Sury and Corky. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:04 AM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings Sounds kind of like flying flat bottom wing with 10-20 degrees of flaps all the time. 3. It allows you to use drag to advantage, especially in emergency landing, to do a precise short field landing. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:20 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead from the air---from a Piet ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:30 AM PST US From: "Boss" Subject: Re: Spam Alert: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoil stuff ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 12:59 PM Subject: Spam Alert: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoil stuff Concerning Piet airfoil changes, if you plot the points from the 1934 wing plans on top of the single sheet rib plans that you get from Don (which Bernie himself signed, so I assume it is a tracing of one of his later rib creations), you will find that the undercamber is 6/32" LESS at the center and proportionally decreases to the front and back spar. Maybe Bernie himself detemined in later years that you need that much undercamber. (Or I don't know how to measure off of plans ). Rick Holland You know....... A great candidate would be the 23012 used on the Taylorcraft.... Good lift, great cruise speed/low drag, and good float on landing... And a nasty stall Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings Ken, Please keep this discussion on airfoil going. I feel the Piet's performance could be improved, especially landing. I have flown many types of planes, SEL, but have never flown one that has no float, high drag, and a sudden drop out on landing like a Piet. I know it's safe if you expect it but I sure would like to float like a Cub, Champ or even a Beaver. I have my ribs completed for 311CC but would be willing to build another set with another proven airfoil if I knew what to try. I mean no disrespect to BHP or the purists. If we didn't want to improve it we would all be building and flying Wright Flyers and/or Curtiss Pushers. Corky in 23 above La weather ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoil stuff From: "Textor, Jack" This is all interesting and helpful to learn about the flight characteristics of the Piet. And I must say a little disconcerting. I just received my 100 cap strips and hope I have the correct airfoil. With the help of Doc and others I believe I do. With the landing characteristics mentioned, even with my tail time I will be sure to have an experienced Piet pilot test fly and instruct me. Jack Textor Des Moines, IA _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoil stuff ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:34 AM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead from the air---from a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" Gorgeous..... Just great stuff.... Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead from the air---from a Piet > ---- > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:33 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead from the air---from a Piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle Well, so much for me getting any work done the rest of the day...... -----Original Message----- From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead from the air---from a Piet ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:28 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoil stuff --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com There was a Piet in Clifton TX years ago with T-craft wings and a 70 hp Lambert or LeBlond engine. I heard it is in a museum now in south TX somewhere. It is black painted with skull and crossbones and mock german markings. I think it even had mock machine guns on it. I never talked to anyone who flew it tho. Has anyone heard of this airplane? Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:28 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a view from the pilot's seat in a Pietenpol w/ a passenger Mike, Who said I can fly. I'm still waiting for the Sport Pilot issue to be issued. I will say that Nathan Moss has had a good time in 41CC these last several months but not this week Corky in La ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:30 PM PST US From: "John Dilatush" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Great Photos Mike, Good, Great, Photos! John ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:01 PM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Auto Cad Pietenpol drawings Van's Aircraft is able to produce pre-punched RV kits that fits together so precise that it's amazing. They can do this because every piece is cut and drilled by computer controlled machines that are capable of using the accuracy CAD affords a manufacturer. This type of accuracy is just not possible in our (my) garage. Even if all the plans were drawn in CAD I doubt your (my) building accuracy is THAT accurate. Honestly, your construction does not need to be accurate to the .01 inch. Agreed. I would recommend AutoCad not because more precision or accuracy is needed in the plans, but because it is faster to produce a planset using it (assuming you know how to use AutoCad), simple to make even large modifications (a good example would be producing a full 1933 drawing #1 of the long fuse showing all top and bottom view dimensions), perspective views are free, can be stored and transmitted electronically, etc. Other than that it can be redrawn on sheepskins with a stone knife, if you have the time. I have built model airplanes from comercially produced CAD drawing and they still have errors. Drawing in CAD does not make plans any better or worse. You still need to mesure where the part is going to fit and make the part fit the assembly. Try to keep the dimentions as close as possible to the plans but ALLWAYS make the part to fit the assembly. It's just thet simple. I feel there is no need to take the time to redraw the plans in CAD. The most helpfull things are pictures of assemblies and parts. Correct, and the 3D perspectives AutoCad can provide in seconds give you these kind of views from any angle and for any assembly you want, with dimensions if desired. All together in one place. These can be had by simply asking anyone on this list. I will freely shair pictures I have collected to all that needs them and I know others will too. What about builders without computer access and with no other Piet builders nearby? What I proposed was a way to make piet building easier for people and very possibly get more people building them. To all you first time builders, of which I an one too, take the time to study the plans. All the information is on them even if it doesn't look like it at first glance. Except jury struts, seat belts, front cabane from top motor mount, brakes, tailwheel. A small number of items and not necessary since the original was built without them, but I haven't seen many pictures of currently flying piets without them. It is also helpfull to hafe the Flying and Glider Mag the EAA sells. Make you parts fit not to the dimentions on the plans but to YOUR plane. After awhile you will get comfertable with the plans and think they are adiquite. Tones of Piet's have been built from them so they can't be that bad. No one is trying to say that you or anyone else can't use the original plans. They will always be available. Sorry to get another "build it to the plans" war started here, I have the original plans, a pile of wood and the help from you great folks on the pietenpol-list, I will now now shutup and build. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:19 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: what medical ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy At 03:30 PM 1/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Mike, >Who said I can fly. I'm still waiting for the Sport Pilot issue to be >issued. I will say that Nathan Moss has had a good time in 41CC these last >several months but not this week >Corky in La Corky---how many times have you been ramp checked to see if you hold a valid medical ? I guess the only time they could hang you out to dry is if you crash or hurt someone. I'm being a bit facetious here about the ramp check, but I think if they let people drive cars they should let them fly 2 seat, light planes without a medical exam.......but then what do I know. I DO hope they pass that issue for guys just like you because you deserve the right to fly in my mind. It's when you can't tell the difference between the brake pedal and the gas pedal is when they should yank all our tickets----fly or drive ! Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:13 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Great Photos Thank you very much, John ! I sure appreciate the ones that you've posted here and there and thru the mail a few years back from your color printer. Gosh--that one above the mountains that you posted at 12,000 ft. was wonderful !!!!! I was sure about the chill you felt there in that cockpit as I flew a few weeks ago when it was about 34 F for a while------that old van heater felt GREAT when I got in it to head home that day !!! Mike PS-- here's one or two more for ya ! At 02:23 PM 1/8/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Mike, > >Good, Great, Photos! > >John > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:39 PM PST US From: "w b evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Great Photos Mike, Greeeaaattt! pics (Tony the Tiger). Keep them comming, it's great for the winter blues. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Great Photos Thank you very much, John ! I sure appreciate the ones that you've posted here and there and thru the mail a few years back from your color printer. Gosh--that one above the mountains that you posted at 12,000 ft. was wonderful !!!!! I was sure about the chill you felt there in that cockpit as I flew a few weeks ago when it was about 34 F for a while------that old van heater felt GREAT when I got in it to head home that day !!! Mike PS-- here's one or two more for ya ! At 02:23 PM 1/8/2004 -0700, you wrote: Mike, Good, Great, Photos! John ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:45 PM PST US From: KRSBtv@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Texas Pietenpols? Greetings from Central Texas. I recently purchased a Pietenpol from a fellow in Northern Georgia, Mineral Bluffs to be exact. The airplane was signed off by the Atlanta FSDO in June 1998 and shortly after, the builder suffered a heart attack. As a result, this bird (N1195P) has never flown. (Not what I'm worried about that ... been a test pilot before,,,) What I'm trying to determine if there are any other Pietenpol Air Campers in and around the Abilene to San Angelo... Waco to Midland area. My dad (84 years YOUNG, A&P license, had 5 type ratings in jets when he retired, Instructor Pilot W.W.II, Crop Duster after the war ... flown corporate jets all over the world) has found dozens of discrepancies in my newly acquired Pietenpol. He said he would disinherit me unless I fixed all the stuff on his list (not that I would be an idiot to not address these issues...) I'm a previous builder of another Experimental as well. I'd sure like to see some other specimens around my part of the state, if anyone is located in my neck of the woods. Thanks, Sterling Knot-2-Shabby Airport (5TA6) San Antonio Sectional N 31' 56.182' W 99' 53.772' ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:35 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Texas Pietenpols? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Sterling, Theres a few around here in Waco. Two or three flying examples and at least one (mine) under construction. Give me a call some weekend and we'll try to make the 'rounds and see some. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:31 PM PST US From: KRSBtv@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Texas Pietenpols? Terry: Thanks... I'll give you a call in a week or so. Might bring my dad with me if we can pay a short visit some weekend. Thanks, Sterling Brooks ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:49 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what medical ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Whenever this subject is brought up, I think of my late buddy, Jack Green, of Hebron, Texas. He had NINE bypasses. He acted and felt like a child because his circulation was SO good. Of course, the FAA denied him the medical BUT it was OK FOR HIM TO DRIVE A SCHOOL BUS FULL OF KIDS and across railroad tracks too!! Then there is Charlie G.. He flipped his single seat biplane one morning. He flew every morning. The wind was howling this particular morning and it got away from him and he flipped it. Anyway, the FAA comes out (NTSB stayed away as there was no carnage) and asked him for his papers. Needless to say, he could not find his medical. As a mater of fact, he could not find his medical for the previous 25 years as the Feds denied him his medical 25 years previous. Being the upstanding American that he is, twenty-five years earlier he said F*** them, and he kept on flying. Anyway, he had his pilot's certificate suspended for 90 days for not flying with a valid medical, and then the FAA REINSTATED HIS MEDICAL saying that they must of been wrong 25 years ago if he had amply demonstrated lo these last 25 years that he could safely fly. Go figure! I personally know these guys. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: what medical ? > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > At 03:30 PM 1/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >Mike, > >Who said I can fly. I'm still waiting for the Sport Pilot issue to be > >issued. I will say that Nathan Moss has had a good time in 41CC these last > >several months but not this week > >Corky in La > > > Corky---how many times have you been ramp checked to see if you hold a > valid medical ? I guess the only time they could hang you out to dry is > if you crash or hurt someone. I'm being a bit facetious here about the > ramp check, but I think if they let people drive cars they should let them > fly 2 seat, light planes without a medical exam.......but then what do I > know. I DO hope they pass that issue for guys just like you because you > deserve the right to fly in my mind. It's when you can't tell the > difference between the brake pedal and the gas pedal is when they should > yank all our tickets----fly or drive ! > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:47 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Great Photos <5.1.1.5.2.20040108163837.0264d060@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Mike, Do you think that we can scrounge a ride for Ben in the F-18? It finally turned cold here (-4 Friday night) so work on the TCart will probably slow down. Everytime I clean up more parts I find more parts to fix. It will be spring before I need to order the fabric from Jim and Dondi. The guy doing the round the world trip in the Taylorcraft has a log going on his web site. He must have a very understanding wife and a big checkbook to be able to do a trip like that. Dave N36078 '41 BC-12-65 At 04:41 PM 1/8/2004, you wrote: >Thank you very much, John ! I sure appreciate the ones that you've >posted here and there and thru the mail a few years back from your color >printer. Gosh--that one above the mountains that you posted at 12,000 ft. >was wonderful !!!!! I was sure about the chill you felt there in that >cockpit as I flew a few weeks ago when it was about 34 F for a >while------that old van heater felt GREAT when I got in it to head home >that day !!! Mike PS-- here's one or two more for ya ! At 02:23 PM >1/8/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>Mike, >> >>Good, Great, Photos! >> >>John >> > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Version: 6.0.559 / Virus Database: 351 - Release Date: 1/7/2004 --- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:04 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what medical ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" I just love this stuff..... Sometimes you have to wonder where common sense got lost.. It makes me feel real good to know that Charlie didn't miss a beat for 25 years. Just think how many hours of aerial enjoyment he would have missed out on. My hat's off to him. Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what medical ? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" > > Whenever this subject is brought up, I think of my late buddy, Jack Green, > of Hebron, Texas. He had NINE bypasses. He acted and felt like a child > because his circulation was SO good. > > Of course, the FAA denied him the medical BUT it was OK FOR HIM TO DRIVE A > SCHOOL BUS FULL OF KIDS and across railroad tracks too!! > > Then there is Charlie G.. He flipped his single seat biplane one morning. > He flew every morning. The wind was howling this particular morning and it > got away from him and he flipped it. Anyway, the FAA comes out (NTSB stayed > away as there was no carnage) and asked him for his papers. Needless to > say, he could not find his medical. As a mater of fact, he could not find > his medical for the previous 25 years as the Feds denied him his medical 25 > years previous. > > Being the upstanding American that he is, twenty-five years earlier he said > F*** them, and he kept on flying. > > Anyway, he had his pilot's certificate suspended for 90 days for not flying > with a valid medical, and then the FAA REINSTATED HIS MEDICAL saying that > they must of been wrong 25 years ago if he had amply demonstrated lo these > last 25 years that he could safely fly. > > Go figure! > > I personally know these guys. > > Chris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 3:36 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: what medical ? > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > > > At 03:30 PM 1/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >Mike, > > >Who said I can fly. I'm still waiting for the Sport Pilot issue to be > > >issued. I will say that Nathan Moss has had a good time in 41CC these > last > > >several months but not this week > > >Corky in La > > > > > > Corky---how many times have you been ramp checked to see if you hold a > > valid medical ? I guess the only time they could hang you out to dry is > > if you crash or hurt someone. I'm being a bit facetious here about the > > ramp check, but I think if they let people drive cars they should let > them > > fly 2 seat, light planes without a medical exam.......but then what do I > > know. I DO hope they pass that issue for guys just like you because you > > deserve the right to fly in my mind. It's when you can't tell the > > difference between the brake pedal and the gas pedal is when they should > > yank all our tickets----fly or drive ! > > > > Mike C. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:30 PM PST US From: "Doyle K. Combs" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Texas Pietenpols? Sterling, I bought a Piet/GN-1/PGN-2 from a person in Ohio. I picked it up and found some problems that I am working on at the moment. I live in Lometa, Texas, which is about 170 miles sw of Abilene. I would like to communicate with you about this and also, if possible, have your dad look at this Piet. It has the long fuselage and is wider. It has the GN-1 wings (I believe) and an upper turtle deck. The middle section is longer than the Piet design and the cabanes slant toward the outside. I have a Subaru engine that came with the plane but they had taken it out and used a Cont. 65. They just stripped it out and now I am trying to figure out exactly how it mounted before. For a novice builder it is really more than I bagained for to get into the air. Thanks for the inquiry. I suppose the net will post my personal email, but if not, it is: dcombs@Ltex.net 512/752-9202 Doyle Combs N13708 ----- Original Message ----- From: KRSBtv@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Texas Pietenpols? Greetings from Central Texas. I recently purchased a Pietenpol from a fellow in Northern Georgia, Mineral Bluffs to be exact. The airplane was signed off by the Atlanta FSDO in June 1998 and shortly after, the builder suffered a heart attack. As a result, this bird (N1195P) has never flown. (Not what I'm worried about that ... been a test pilot before,,,) What I'm trying to determine if there are any other Pietenpol Air Campers in and around the Abilene to San Angelo... Waco to Midland area. My dad (84 years YOUNG, A&P license, had 5 type ratings in jets when he retired, Instructor Pilot W.W.II, Crop Duster after the war ... flown corporate jets all over the world) has found dozens of discrepancies in my newly acquired Pietenpol. He said he would disinherit me unless I fixed all the stuff on his list (not that I would be an idiot to not address these issues...) I'm a previous builder of another Experimental as well. I'd sure like to see some other specimens around my part of the state, if anyone is located in my neck of the woods. Thanks, Sterling Knot-2-Shabby Airport (5TA6) San Antonio Sectional N 31' 56.182' W 99' 53.772' ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:17 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: great photos Very nice pics. I'm sitting here with the flu, time to dig out Mike Cuy's video. For anyone who hasn't seen it, it can be inspiring. Dick