Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (Christian Bobka)
2. 05:28 AM - airfoils and landings (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS)
3. 07:08 AM - Re: Broadhead 2004 (Andimaxd@aol.com)
4. 08:57 AM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (Wizzard187@aol.com)
5. 08:57 AM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (John Dilatush)
6. 09:21 AM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (hjarrett)
7. 09:52 AM - Re: Broadhead 2004 (At7000ft@aol.com)
8. 09:57 AM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (At7000ft@aol.com)
9. 12:02 PM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (w b evans)
10. 12:16 PM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (Graham Hansen)
11. 12:36 PM - Infomation Sheet (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 02:03 PM - Re: For those of us in the cold (John Hofmann)
13. 04:30 PM - German Marked PIET in South Texas (Mike King)
14. 08:37 PM - NX899LW (Rcaprd@aol.com)
15. 08:49 PM - Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input (javier cruz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Exellent, Chuck. I am always yelling at the students to "Keep it flying!
Don't let it touch! Don't let it touch! Ah, you let it touch...Okay, let's
do another..."
By the way, chuck's method works for nosewheel airplanes too. I buy lunch
if the student drags the tiedown at the tail. Makes for nice landings and
you will never bounce and you will never wheelbarrel and break off the nose
gear. Ever fly a Cherokee Six?
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/10/04 5:54:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> wbeevans@verizon.net writes:
>
> << Can anyone who wants to, post a normal wheel and three point landing
> procedure as it goes thru there mind on final? >>
>
> Walt,
> For me, landings are always the most challenging part of the flight. I
much
> prefer landing on grass than hard surface...it's much more forgiving.
When I
> first started flying the Piet, I would drag it in with power on final
(maybe
> I just didn't trust that ol' Model A engine - it quit 2 times on short
final),
> and wheel landings were the way I usually did one. I didn't want to do an
> approach stall, so I kept the approach speed too high, and did quite a few
> bouncy PoGo landings, till I learned to stab the stick forward at the
split second
> the mains touched. I now do full stall landings most of the time. I
usually
> keep my downwind in pretty close, in case I loose the engine I'll still
make
> the field, which makes turns to base and final pretty steep. On downwind,
when
> abeam the landing spot, I pull power on the Cont. A65 engine to 1500 rpm,
and
> the nose drops, and I keep the speed from 70 to 60 indicated, turn base
> keeping the ball in the middle, level the wing very briefly for a last
check for
> runway condition, 30 or more bank to final (which blocks out the view of
the
> runway), and on final I like to be pretty high, so I pull power to just
above
> the idle stop, and put 'er in a slip down to maybe 50 to 80 feet agl,
straighten
> out and maintain a minimum of 50 mph indicated till I make the numbers.
Pull
> power off to the stop which quickly dissipates the speed, because I'm
pulling
> the nose up now for the roundout. 50 to 55 mph on short final seems to
> maintain enough energy for the roundout and flair. The ground is really
close now,
> maybe a couple of feet. That's the hardest part - keeping the ground
about 6
> to 8 inches below the tires. Nose is coming up, and forward view is
blocked.
> Perifial vision out the left side shows how far away it is. Speed is
> rapidly dissipating. Quick glance at the ASI - about 40 mph indicated
now. Ground
> effect is kicking in...Hold it off...ease the stick back, keep the nose
> straight with the rudder in the direction of flight...hold it off...nose
coming up
> and causing a lot of induced drag...hold it off...controls are very mushy
now,
> but the ailerons are still very effective...hold it off...gentle ground
> rumble, and short roll out !! YEEE HAAAAWWW !!! Boy that feels good !!
Try as
> I may, my landings are always different. From round out to touchdown is a
> matter of maybe 5 or 6 seconds. Quite often my tail touches first, but
just a
> split second before the mains. I think sometimes I actually touch down at
less
> than 30 mph, although I've never looked at the ASI to verify it. I think
my
> ASI actually reads a little low anyway.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | airfoils and landings |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:11:26 -0500
If you want to learn (from a book???) all about the mechanics of landing, by all
means get "Stick and Rudder" and read it from cover-to cover. You'll be so stoked
on taildraggers that you'll want to RUN to the airport and try everything
out that you just learned.
As far as the airfoils go........... Chill out! The "purists" aren't throwing stones
at anyone, but try to understand that most of us build a Piet because we
WANT IT LIKE IT IS. We usually don't pick a design and then try to see how to
make it different or "better" (Grega), we pick the design because that's what
we want. Sure little details creep in, that's just a personality thing, but if
you bust into a Lancair group and start telling them that their nosewheel ought
to be on the tail based on your vast experience, you'd probably get some static
there as well. Do what you want to do and then let us hear the results.
We'd be more interested then as has been demonstrated over and over on this (and
many other) sites.
$.02
Larry
ps. has anyone seen the Red Betsy???
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 2004 |
Chuck:
Would you fill out this information sheet on your airplane as an example,
NOW. As my ship is scheduled to make its first flight in mid or late summer and
by the time Broadhead gets here it really will be a little late to help.
I think your information sheet is a Very good idea and would help out a lot
of builders.
If you and or anyone else wants to fill this info sheet out and forward it to
me ASAP it would be greatly appreciated.
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
75 HP Piet under construction
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
On this discusion on landing I wonder how going from 6:00 6 wheels to 18
inch motorcycle wheels will affect the land problems? It raises the axels
about three inches I think. Ken Conrad in cool Iowa
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input
================================
Chris,
With everyone concerned about landing a Piet, it is hard to delineate in
detail the steps involved because each landing is a little different than
the last one. This step by step aproach sometimes leads to a "mechanical
pilot" and if something changes or goes wrong, it is difficult for him to
react to the situation.
"Back in "09" (many many years ago) when I was still instructing, in
addition to "Keep it flying" which I used, I would also say that the
airplane is like a first date. And then would explain, "Treat it like your
first date, firmly but gently!". Helps the student to take charge rather
than react.
John
Salida, Colorado. Where the sun shines but it's still too cold to fly in
and open cockpit!
================================
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
<bobka@compuserve.com>
>
> Exellent, Chuck. I am always yelling at the students to "Keep it flying!
> Don't let it touch! Don't let it touch! Ah, you let it touch...Okay,
let's
> do another..."
>
> By the way, chuck's method works for nosewheel airplanes too. I buy lunch
> if the student drags the tiedown at the tail. Makes for nice landings and
> you will never bounce and you will never wheelbarrel and break off the
nose
> gear. Ever fly a Cherokee Six?
>
> Chris Bobka
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 12:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input
>
>
> >
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 1/10/04 5:54:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> > wbeevans@verizon.net writes:
> >
> > << Can anyone who wants to, post a normal wheel and three point landing
> > procedure as it goes thru there mind on final? >>
> >
> > Walt,
> > For me, landings are always the most challenging part of the flight. I
> much
> > prefer landing on grass than hard surface...it's much more forgiving.
> When I
> > first started flying the Piet, I would drag it in with power on final
> (maybe
> > I just didn't trust that ol' Model A engine - it quit 2 times on short
> final),
> > and wheel landings were the way I usually did one. I didn't want to do
an
> > approach stall, so I kept the approach speed too high, and did quite a
few
> > bouncy PoGo landings, till I learned to stab the stick forward at the
> split second
> > the mains touched. I now do full stall landings most of the time. I
> usually
> > keep my downwind in pretty close, in case I loose the engine I'll still
> make
> > the field, which makes turns to base and final pretty steep. On
downwind,
> when
> > abeam the landing spot, I pull power on the Cont. A65 engine to 1500
rpm,
> and
> > the nose drops, and I keep the speed from 70 to 60 indicated, turn base
> > keeping the ball in the middle, level the wing very briefly for a last
> check for
> > runway condition, 30 or more bank to final (which blocks out the view
of
> the
> > runway), and on final I like to be pretty high, so I pull power to just
> above
> > the idle stop, and put 'er in a slip down to maybe 50 to 80 feet agl,
> straighten
> > out and maintain a minimum of 50 mph indicated till I make the numbers.
> Pull
> > power off to the stop which quickly dissipates the speed, because I'm
> pulling
> > the nose up now for the roundout. 50 to 55 mph on short final seems to
> > maintain enough energy for the roundout and flair. The ground is really
> close now,
> > maybe a couple of feet. That's the hardest part - keeping the ground
> about 6
> > to 8 inches below the tires. Nose is coming up, and forward view is
> blocked.
> > Perifial vision out the left side shows how far away it is. Speed is
> > rapidly dissipating. Quick glance at the ASI - about 40 mph indicated
> now. Ground
> > effect is kicking in...Hold it off...ease the stick back, keep the nose
> > straight with the rudder in the direction of flight...hold it off...nose
> coming up
> > and causing a lot of induced drag...hold it off...controls are very
mushy
> now,
> > but the ailerons are still very effective...hold it off...gentle ground
> > rumble, and short roll out !! YEEE HAAAAWWW !!! Boy that feels good
!!
> Try as
> > I may, my landings are always different. From round out to touchdown is
a
> > matter of maybe 5 or 6 seconds. Quite often my tail touches first, but
> just a
> > split second before the mains. I think sometimes I actually touch down
at
> less
> > than 30 mph, although I've never looked at the ASI to verify it. I
think
> my
> > ASI actually reads a little low anyway.
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > NX770CG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
Having larger wheels will increase the angle of attack in the three point. This
means you are at a slightly higher lift and lower speed. How much depends on
how much the angle is increased. If the large wheels put the wing right at
stall in three point the smaller wheels would cause you to land tail first or
roll out at a higher speed with the wing still lifting. You "could" balloon back
into the air, especially if the wheels have more bounce than the big wheels.
I got to look at the drawing of the wing structure and one view of the ribs worried
me a little. There is a diagonal from the bottom of the front spar to the
top leading edge about half way between the very leading edge and the spar.
That diagonal would support the leading edge top contour. On the bottom the
rib drawing doesn't show anything to support the bottom stick to maintain the
lower curve between the bottom of the front spar and the leading edge. There
is a curve shown on the drawing but it would be very easy for that stick to go
straight (and in fact the cut away SHOWS it straight). Taking away the lower
curve would push the leading edge up and decrease the leading edge radius. Neither
of these things is good for landing performance or handling. Sharp leading
edges (in general) have poor stall characteristics and while raising the
leading edge may help raise cruise speed (something the Piet design doesn't list
as a real priority) it can really HURT landing performance. Are you guys flying
with the lower front part of the airfoil straight or curved? Variance in
that part of the leading edge could explain a lot of the different landing handling
reports I have been seeing. The airfoil for the Piet doesn't have much
good data so I am addressing things pretty much in general here. I have a sneaking
feeling that not all Piets have the same airfoil even when built from
the same plans.
Hank (stirring the waters) J
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input
On this discusion on landing I wonder how going from 6:00 6 wheels to 18 inch
motorcycle wheels will affect the land problems? It raises the axels about
three inches I think. Ken Conrad in cool Iowa
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 2004 |
May want to also add an Alteration category for Fuselage Front Extension.
Alterations :
Fuselage Width - "
Wingspan - ' "
Engine Mount Length - "
Other -
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
Talk about noseheavy, how about one of those 8 cylinder Cherokees?
By the way, chuck's method works for nosewheel airplanes too. I buy lunch
if the student drags the tiedown at the tail. Makes for nice landings and
you will never bounce and you will never wheelbarrel and break off the nose
gear. Ever fly a Cherokee Six?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
Thanks to all who responded. Lots of good input from guys with lots of
hours/experience.
Kind of got a handle on how I'll change my ways. The wheel landings are
easier for me, where I can see everything going on, and this is with
approach speeds of 65/70.
got to slow things down for the 3 point. My Piet stalls @ 37 IAS so it's
pretty sure bet I'm comming over the numbers way too fast.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 12:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input
> ================================
> Chris,
>
> With everyone concerned about landing a Piet, it is hard to delineate in
> detail the steps involved because each landing is a little different than
> the last one. This step by step aproach sometimes leads to a "mechanical
> pilot" and if something changes or goes wrong, it is difficult for him to
> react to the situation.
>
> "Back in "09" (many many years ago) when I was still instructing, in
> addition to "Keep it flying" which I used, I would also say that the
> airplane is like a first date. And then would explain, "Treat it like
your
> first date, firmly but gently!". Helps the student to take charge rather
> than react.
>
> John
> Salida, Colorado. Where the sun shines but it's still too cold to fly in
> and open cockpit!
> ================================
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka"
> <bobka@compuserve.com>
> >
> > Exellent, Chuck. I am always yelling at the students to "Keep it
flying!
> > Don't let it touch! Don't let it touch! Ah, you let it touch...Okay,
> let's
> > do another..."
> >
> > By the way, chuck's method works for nosewheel airplanes too. I buy
lunch
> > if the student drags the tiedown at the tail. Makes for nice landings
and
> > you will never bounce and you will never wheelbarrel and break off the
> nose
> > gear. Ever fly a Cherokee Six?
> >
> > Chris Bobka
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 12:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need
input
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
> > >
> > > In a message dated 1/10/04 5:54:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > wbeevans@verizon.net writes:
> > >
> > > << Can anyone who wants to, post a normal wheel and three point
landing
> > > procedure as it goes thru there mind on final? >>
> > >
> > > Walt,
> > > For me, landings are always the most challenging part of the flight.
I
> > much
> > > prefer landing on grass than hard surface...it's much more forgiving.
> > When I
> > > first started flying the Piet, I would drag it in with power on final
> > (maybe
> > > I just didn't trust that ol' Model A engine - it quit 2 times on short
> > final),
> > > and wheel landings were the way I usually did one. I didn't want to
do
> an
> > > approach stall, so I kept the approach speed too high, and did quite a
> few
> > > bouncy PoGo landings, till I learned to stab the stick forward at the
> > split second
> > > the mains touched. I now do full stall landings most of the time. I
> > usually
> > > keep my downwind in pretty close, in case I loose the engine I'll
still
> > make
> > > the field, which makes turns to base and final pretty steep. On
> downwind,
> > when
> > > abeam the landing spot, I pull power on the Cont. A65 engine to 1500
> rpm,
> > and
> > > the nose drops, and I keep the speed from 70 to 60 indicated, turn
base
> > > keeping the ball in the middle, level the wing very briefly for a last
> > check for
> > > runway condition, 30 or more bank to final (which blocks out the view
> of
> > the
> > > runway), and on final I like to be pretty high, so I pull power to
just
> > above
> > > the idle stop, and put 'er in a slip down to maybe 50 to 80 feet agl,
> > straighten
> > > out and maintain a minimum of 50 mph indicated till I make the
numbers.
> > Pull
> > > power off to the stop which quickly dissipates the speed, because I'm
> > pulling
> > > the nose up now for the roundout. 50 to 55 mph on short final seems
to
> > > maintain enough energy for the roundout and flair. The ground is
really
> > close now,
> > > maybe a couple of feet. That's the hardest part - keeping the ground
> > about 6
> > > to 8 inches below the tires. Nose is coming up, and forward view is
> > blocked.
> > > Perifial vision out the left side shows how far away it is. Speed is
> > > rapidly dissipating. Quick glance at the ASI - about 40 mph indicated
> > now. Ground
> > > effect is kicking in...Hold it off...ease the stick back, keep the
nose
> > > straight with the rudder in the direction of flight...hold it
off...nose
> > coming up
> > > and causing a lot of induced drag...hold it off...controls are very
> mushy
> > now,
> > > but the ailerons are still very effective...hold it off...gentle
ground
> > > rumble, and short roll out !! YEEE HAAAAWWW !!! Boy that feels
good
> !!
> > Try as
> > > I may, my landings are always different. From round out to touchdown
is
> a
> > > matter of maybe 5 or 6 seconds. Quite often my tail touches first,
but
> > just a
> > > split second before the mains. I think sometimes I actually touch
down
> at
> > less
> > > than 30 mph, although I've never looked at the ASI to verify it. I
> think
> > my
> > > ASI actually reads a little low anyway.
> > >
> > > Chuck Gantzer
> > > NX770CG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
tests=FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, UPPERCASE_25_50
Walt,
As Larry Williams said in his post, read STICK AND RUDDER by
Wolfgang Langewiesche, ISBN: 07-036240-8, about the art of flying.
First published in 1944, it remains the best analysis of what is
happening when you fly an airplane: old or new, big or small.
I first read it back in 1951 when I got my Private Pilot License, and
I am convinced that it has kept me out of a lot of trouble. Over the
years I have periodically re-read parts of it and continue to marvel
at the author's insight.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Infomation Sheet |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 1/11/04 9:09:31 AM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd@aol.com
writes:
<< I think your information sheet is a Very good idea and would help out a
lot
of builders. >>
Hey Andy and all,
If everyone would fill out this sheet, and either post it to the group, or
forward it to me, I'll print them all out, bring them to Brodhead, and have a
nice neat sheet for each plane. As Andy says, it would be very helpful to
builders and flyers alike. If anyone can think of any additional infomation,
please let me know.
Here is the info on my plane:
N Number - NX770CG
Name - Chuck Gantzer
Aircraft Infomation :
Type - Aircamper
Short / Long fuse - Short
Empty Weight - 630 lbs.
Gross Weight - 1050 lbs.
Engine - Continental A65
Prop - Homebuilt 72 X 42
Empty CG aft of Lead Edge - 9.15"
Weight of Primary Pilot - 205 - 210 lbs.
Max Pax Weight - 175 lbs
Inches wing tilted back - 3 1/2"
Cabane strut length - 2" Longer than plans
Cowling Material - Alum 2024 .025" epoxy primer camloc fasteners
fiberglass nose bowl (I made a mold from a J3 Cub)
Covering - Stits Method (poly tac & poly brush) - 1.8oz material on the
empenage & ailerons / 2.7 oz on the wing and fuselage
Paint Process - Silver brushed on Rustoleum oil base enamel 'aluminum' #7715
Red - brushed on Polyurathane oil enamel - Red Devil (chinese red # 1207)
Wheels - Goodyear 6.00 - 6 pt# 530659 cap.- 1200 lbs
Tires - Titan or Carlisle (from Wicks $30 ea.) turf glide 8.00 - 6 4
ply - max inflation 20 psi I run them at 15 psi
Brakes - heel brakes; pedals - homemade; master cyl - Mooney; calipers
- Cessna 150; rotors - Beech turned down to 1/4" thick; nylo flo fittings
and nylon lines; Matco resevour; 5606 hyd. fluid
Tailwheel - plans build tailskid with homebuilt steerable tailwheel with
1/16" cables that go all the way up to the rudder bar; wheel - 3 1/2" changed
from one bought at Harbor Freight to one bought from Wicks
Bunji Chords - 5/8" X 31" cut length; 23 1/8" to 23 1/4" overall length
with loops that are tied with 8 1/2 feet of doubled up waxed nylon thread (17
feet total) from the leather store #1220-01. Tied portion is 1 1/2" to 1 3/4"
long. I have drawn a diagram how this is done.
Seat Belt Harness - front & rear from AS&S for the Long EZ pt#13-01300
Survival Tools - small fire extinguisher & Leatherman velcroed in cockpit
Adhesives used:
Ribs - T88
Wing - T88
Fuse - T88
Fuel Capacity:
Range - 4 hrs. with lots of reserve
Wing Tank - 9.8 gal.
Material - fiberglass
Cowl Tank - 10.7 gal.
Material - fiberglass
Alterations :
Fuselage Width - per plans, with plenty of room for a roll of toilet
paper on each side of my hips !!
Wingspan - per plans
Engine Mount Length - 8" longer than Hoopman drawn plans, same o.d.,
with the next thicker wall tubing
Fuselage Front Extension - per plans
Other -
Wood type in various locations:
Ribs - 1/4" X 1/2" cedar cap strips
Rib Gussets - 1/16" birch
Spar Size - 3/4" X 4 3/4"
Spar Material - douglas fir
Longerons - douglas fir
Longeron Gussets - per plans
Other -
Steel type in various locations:
Cabane Struts - 4130 streamline
Lift Struts - 4130 oval -1 13/16" X 7/8" .049" wall
Landing Gear - per plans
Engine Mount Fittings - per plans for Cont. A65 engine - 3 bolts thru
each longeron
Fuselage Fittings - per plans
Firewall - .020 stainless steel with thick fiberglass mat on aft side
Other -
Date first airplane noises summer Y2K
Date recieved Airworthyness Certificate - 1/31/02
Date first flight 3/28/02 Doug Bryant did the first 3 flights with the
Model A
Address - 626 Pattie, Wichita KS 67211
e-mail - rcaprd@aol.com
web site -
builder(s)- Chuck Gantzer and Doug Bryant
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: For those of us in the cold |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
It was Larry Williams who is in this month's Sport Aviation. I woke up about
6:00 AM CST and it was one of those times when everything just worked out.
Glad you like it.
-john-
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike <bike.mike@verizon.net>
>
> on 1/9/04 12:15, John Hofmann at jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com wrote:
>
>> Brodhead from the ground, 2002, back in the woods at sunup.
>>
> I don't know whose Piet that is, waking up the campers at Brodhead, but it
> has been my monitor's wallpaper for a while now. It is the most
> inspirational Piet-builder's photo I've seen.
> Mike Hardaway
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
John Hofmann
Manager, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
7600 Terrace Avenue, Ste. 203
Middleton, WI 53562
Phone: 608-831-3611, ext. 150
Fax: 608-831-5122
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | German Marked PIET in South Texas |
Group,
This is the response I received today from the Texas Air Museum
regarding its PIETENPOL. The aircraft is currently begin used in
dogfights with another vintage airplane to demonstrate what is
believed to be the first air to air combat between flying machines
at least here in Texas anyway.
Web site for the Texas Air Museum:
http://www.texasairmuseum.com <http://www.texasairmuseum.com/>
Last week a member of our discussion group asked about the
whereabouts of a PIET that was based in Clifton, Texas. I knew
this plane was once in Clifton and eventually made its way to
deep South Texas.
I was sent pictures of this black German marked airplane but do
not know the correct procedure to post it to this group. Once I
learn that I will send it for all to see.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
Hello Mike,
Nick forwarded me your inquiries about the Texas Air Museum Pietenpol Air
Camper.
First, to give you some background, I took over as director ( a volunteer
position) for the museum when John Houston died in November of 2002. I had
the privilege of working with John for several years before his death, but I
mainly handled his crop spraying and personal business interests. My
knowledge of the museum and its exhibits is rather limited. Nonetheless,
here's what I know about the Pietenpol.
According to the paperwork I have, N36RN (serial number RN1) was built by
Robert H. Northcutt of Monterrey, California. He built the aircraft to
resemble a WWI German fighter, using Jenny style fixed gear, fake machine
guns, insignia, and paint scheme. The airplane is dubbed "Der Faker Fokker"
for obvious reasons. The airworthiness certificate I have was issued on
December 20, 1979.
The specs and performance stats I have for the aircraft are as follows: wing
span- 29', wing cord- 5', length overall- 17' 8", height overall, 6'6",
landing gear tread- 56", propeller- 6' 4" diameter, weight empty- 610 lbs.,
fuel capacity- 10 gallons, climb full load- over 200' first minute, hi speed-
90 mph, landing speed- 40 mph.
The engine on N36RN is a 1930 Lambert model R-266 five cylinder radial,
serial number 3076-TC-38. It is rated at 90 hp at 2350 rpm and weighs 214
lbs. Over the years around here, I have heard it referred to as "Babe Ruth's
engine," implying that this particular engine may have been owned at one time
by the baseball legend. That may or may not be a bunch of baloney as far as
I know. There seems to be a lot of that produced within aviator circles. As
of yet I haven't seen any documentation to back up this claim.
In April of 1984, the aircraft was registered to Ted F. Mayo of Nemo, Texas.
I have no idea where Nemo is, but I believe it's correct that the Pietenpol
came here from Clifton, Texas. I went to the airport there a few years back
to look at an Agcat that was for sale there and I ran into a guy who said he
was a member of the Texas Air Museum and that he had helped get the Pietenpol
to Rio Hondo some years back. A nice fellow; I think his name was Jose
something-or-other. He was restoring an L-19 Bird Dog at the time.
I am assuming that the museum acquired the Pietenpol because of its
appearance as a WWI German mockup. John Houston owned a 7/8 scale SE5a
replica (lost in a crash here last month) which was used to battle the
Pietenpol during some of the Fly-Ins here at the museum each year. It was an
impressive sight, enhanced by the unique drone if the Lambert radial on the
Pietenpol.
As far as the flight characteristics of the aircraft are concerned, I
wouldn't know as I have never flown it. I have been told it is a little
squirrelly in the turns and that if landed on pavement, it seems to get faster
and faster after touchdown. Judging from a couple of the squirrels I've seen
flying the aircraft, it can't be all that bad.
That's about all I can think to tell you about our Pietenpol. I am attaching
a few of the pictures I have of it. Feel free to pass this information on to
people in your group. Please keep in mind my lack of qualified knowledge of
the information I've given you.
The fellow you spoke to here the other day is Glenn Vance. He is one of the
long time volunteers here at the museum. I know he has some pretty good
photos of the Pietenpol he intends to scan and email to you if he hasn't done
it already.
I appreciate you letting your group know about our museum. Please let them
know we are in constant need of financial support (of course.) Publicity
within aviation circles is a big help. We aren't very well known yet, but
there is a really nice collection in the making here. I hope to take the
ingredients that John Houston left behind and form them into a tool for
educating future generations about aviation history. Stay tuned to the Texas
Air Museum website for updates on our progress.
If you get the opportunity, come down and take a look for yourself.
Sincerely,
Lee Labar
Museum Director
Texas Air Museum of the Rio Grande Valley
1 Mile East FM 106
PO Box 70
Rio Hondo TX 78583-0070
phone (956) 748-2112 fax (956) 748-3500
email: tds2@att.net
> Mike,
> I have passed your email on to the museum's director. Thanks for emailing
> this great letter. Let me know if you ever get a reply from the director.
> Have a good day.
> -Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike King
> To: nickm@7thcode.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 3:36 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol
>
>
> Good afternoon. A couple of days ago I had the opportunity
>
> to speak to Vann or Dan (cell phone connection was not very good to
>
> hear his name) or some gentleman who gave me a little information
>
> about the black German painted Pietenpol airplane the museum uses
>
> to re-enact what is believed to be the first dogfight. The Pietenpol is
>
> used along with another vintage looking airplane to perform a dogfight
>
> as part of the air show and demonstration...like the one this weekend.
>
>
> Your black Piet has a radial engine and some unique markings. I believed
>
> the plane was bought from someone in Clifton, Texas..just outside of Waco.
>
>
> I am a member of the Pietenpol discussion group where builders and pilots
>
> of Pietenpols share their stories and advice. Earlier this week, someone
>
> in the group asked whatever became of the Piet that was in Clifton.
>
>
> I responded that it was purchased and being used by the museum as part
>
> of an aerial dogfight. Now there are Piet enthusiasts in the U.S. and around
>
> the world interested in your plane. I sent them your web site address so
>
> that may learn more about the museum and encouraged those in Texas
>
> to fly or drive down for a first hand look.
>
>
> The gentleman I spoke to was going to send me some pictures of the plane
>
> on static display as well as some aerial shots..maybe from this weekend.
>
> In addition, some text about this particular airplane.
>
>
> As soon as that information and pictures get to me, I will send them along
>
> to the group.
>
>
> As a side note, I knew John Warren Houston when he was barely in his 20s
>
> while he lived with his grandmother in Pearsall, Texas. I lived across the
>
> street and would hang out with him during those years. He loved crop dusting
>
> back then and had a passion for flying. He will be missed by many.
>
>
> Thanks again for your help and continued success with the great work your
>
> museum is providing for Texas Aviation.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Mike King
>
> Dallas, Texas
>
>
> mikek120@mindspring.com
>
>
---
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
Hey Larry !!
I've been looking forward to this article in Sport Aviation for a long time
!! I've read it twice already !! Absolutely beautiful airplane you've got
there. You're going to be famous now...just like Mike Cuy !! :) Congrats !!
I'll be sending you an 'Info Sheet' direct, to fill in, and get it back to me.
Chuck Gantzer
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: with all this talk of airfoils,,,I need input |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: javier cruz <javcr@yahoo.com>
HI friends
Chuck with your e-mail about the landing, really, i
fill like the pilot, (almost pull the mouse after
touch) very realistic landing description
Javier Cruz
waiting response for my turnbuckles order..and
checking the Corvair engine (03:35 hrs and all seems
fine)
do not archive
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