Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: vi kapler hinges (John Dilatush)
2. 08:18 AM - Cutting plywood (dpaul)
3. 08:36 AM - model a engine (Richard Navratil)
4. 08:51 AM - Re: Cutting plywood (walt evans)
5. 08:52 AM - Re: Cutting plywood (Isablcorky@aol.com)
6. 08:56 AM - Re: Cutting plywood (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
7. 09:09 AM - Re: Cutting plywood (hjarrett)
8. 09:31 AM - Re: Cutting plywood (Rcaprd@aol.com)
9. 09:48 AM - Re: vi kapler hinges (Kip and Beth Gardner)
10. 10:41 AM - Re: Engine mount and tailfeathers (Rcaprd@aol.com)
11. 10:53 AM - Re: Cutting plywood (The Hallsten's)
12. 12:20 PM - Re: Cutting plywood (dpaul)
13. 12:56 PM - Re: Cutting plywood (walt evans)
14. 03:09 PM - Re: Updated 'Infomation List' (Waytogopiet@aol.com)
15. 05:39 PM - Re: Landing Gear Location (hjarrett)
16. 05:57 PM - Re: Piet information list (hjarrett)
17. 07:30 PM - Wood landing gear question (Ted Brousseau)
18. 09:22 PM - Re: Cutting plywood (Clif Dawson)
19. 09:44 PM - Re: Wood landing gear question (Clif Dawson)
20. 09:51 PM - Re: Wood landing gear question (Richard Navratil)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: vi kapler hinges |
----- Original Message -----
From: Brants
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vi kapler hinges
Tom,
I haven't talked to him for a couple of years, but try:
Vi Kapler
1033 Forest Hills Drive S.W.
Rochester, MN 55902
507) 288-3322
Hope this helps, let me know the results.
John
Anyone have a photo or some info on Vi Kaplers hinges? Is he selling / making
them? How can I reach him? I'm working on the tail section over the winter
and I'll soon be ready for some hinges to put it all together.
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
Message 2
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Listers,
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to cut plywood without pulling up the
top layer of ply? Even with new plywood cutting blades I tend to leave a
rough edge. I'm ready to make a cut in the rear seat back so it can be hinged
for inspection access. I would hate to leave a rough or "over sanded" appearance
in a nice looking piece of plywood.
Dave in Missouri
Message 3
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I just got the new issue of the BPA newsletter. There is a Classified ad for a
model A engine with fresh overhaul and conversion including prop hub. It is
listed for $950/offer. Sounds like a deal.
Contact Karl 765-532-4864 or 815-459-7902
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Dave,
I did all my wood cutting with a 10" Delta bandsaw. Always a smooth beautiful
cut.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: dpaul
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Listers,
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to cut plywood without pulling up
the top layer of ply? Even with new plywood cutting blades I tend to leave
a rough edge. I'm ready to make a cut in the rear seat back so it can be hinged
for inspection access. I would hate to leave a rough or "over sanded" appearance
in a nice looking piece of plywood.
Dave in Missouri
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Try a fine toothed bandsaw
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Score the top and layer with a knife blade along your cut line if it
splinters out it will only go to the scored line.
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
If you are in a place in the work where you absolutely, positively have got to
have a perfect cut, just lay a scrap piece of wood over and under the piece you
want the smooth cut on. Clamp them together and cut through all three at once.
The splits and tears will be in the outer pieces and the center one will
be perfect. This works really well when doing things like cutting holes for instruments.
You can use almost anything for the outer pieces, like press board,
cheap ply or even tempered masonite. Just make sure the three are clamped
together so the outer pieces take the damage.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: dpaul
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Listers,
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to cut plywood without pulling up
the top layer of ply? Even with new plywood cutting blades I tend to leave
a rough edge. I'm ready to make a cut in the rear seat back so it can be hinged
for inspection access. I would hate to leave a rough or "over sanded" appearance
in a nice looking piece of plywood.
Dave in Missouri
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 1/17/04 10:18:57 AM Central Standard Time,
dpaul@fidnet.com writes:
<< Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to cut plywood without pulling
up the top layer of ply? >>
I've used masking tape on the top of the plywood, if you're using a circular
saw, or on the bottom if you're using a table saw. Then put your line on the
masking tape, or use one edge of the masking tape for your line, and cut as
you normally would. You can streach the tape between your marks, and it makes
a
good straight line, eliminating the step of laying a straight edge on, and
marking it with a pencil. The tape keeps the saw teeth from pulling the
splinters up.
Chuck G.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: vi kapler hinges |
At 1:02 AM -0600 1/17/04, Brants wrote:
>Anyone have a photo or some info on Vi Kaplers hinges? Is he
>selling / making them? How can I reach him? I'm working on the
>tail section over the winter and I'll soon be ready for some hinges
>to put it all together.
>
>
>Tom Brant
>Brooklyn Park, MN
>
>
>------ <http://www.usfamily.net/info>USFamily.Net - Unlimited
>Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
Tom,
Vi was at Brodhead & I think he told me that he's still making hinges
& prop hubs. I got a set when I bought my project. They are nice.
Not doing much on the Piet right now, I'm busy restoring a 50+
year-old sled for my daughter.
Kip Gardner - cold & snowy here too, down to 0 last night
--
North Canton, OH
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mount and tailfeathers |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 1/14/04 9:13:12 PM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd@aol.com
writes:
<< My project is coming right along. The engine mount is welded straight, in
other words no one inch down and no half to one inch right or left. We are
using a cont. 75 HP. Should I mount the vertical tail fin an inch or so
over to
one side or is it worth messing with?>>
Max,
The Continental Engine Mount, drawn by A. C. Hanfet, dated 3/15/67, shows
a difference of 9/16" in the top and bottom lengths of the mount. I
maintained this difference in my engine mount, but made it 8" longer with heavier
wall tubing. It doesn't show any right thrust, but I built 1/16" right thrust
into the mount. The Model A engine mount shows a 1" downthrust along the
horizontal line. Downthrust helps reduce the 'Pendulum Effect' of a high wing,
that
the various power settings have. Add power, the nose pitches up, reduce
power, the nose lowers, however, even with downthrust built into the engine mount.
Also do I need to have more incidence in the left wing to compensate for
torque and P factor? >>
Do Not rig the wing to compensate for torque or P factor. Different
incidence in the wing will cause one wing to stall before the other. Rig the
wing with the same amount of incidence all the way across, or maybe a tiny bit
of washout at the tips.
The plans show rigging the vertical fin straight, but that is with a
Model A engine. Offset fins seem to be used with engines of higher power. Mine
is set straight, with no rudder trim tab, and I use just a tiny bit of right
rudder during high power settings...almost not even noticible by my feet. You
could rig the leading edge of the vertical fin maybe 1/16" to the Left of Butt
Line Zero (BL0) to compensate for engine torque. Corvair engines would be
offset to the Right side, since they turn in the opposite direction. P factor
is only evident when flying at a high angle of attack, with a high power
setting.
I would suggest you use large 'fender washers' under the engine mount to
put some downthrust, and right thrust.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Dave,
Run a piece of masking tape along the cut line, where the teeth of the
blade will leave the wood. If you cut on a tablesaw it would be the bottom of
the wood. The tape keeps the edge from splintering.
Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: dpaul
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Listers,
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to cut plywood without pulling up
the top layer of ply?
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
-----Original Message-----
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Date: Saturday, January 17, 2004 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Thanks for the suggestions. Your ideas should make for cleaner looking
holes in the instrument panel also.
Dave
Do Not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Dave,
Use a fly cutter for the panel holes, does a beautiful job.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: dpaul
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
-----Original Message-----
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Date: Saturday, January 17, 2004 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Thanks for the suggestions. Your ideas should make for cleaner looking
holes in the instrument panel also.
Dave
Do Not Archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Updated 'Infomation List' |
In a message dated 1/16/2004 11:37:44 PM Central Standard Time,
Rcaprd@aol.com writes:
and they can
copy / paste to a return e-mail, fill in all the blanks as much as they can,
and send it to me, or to the list
Chuck, Great Job! I'm not much on the cut and paste thing. If you would you
post your mailing address I could then mail you the filled out form on NX920Y
rather than clutter up the list. Thanx, Don Hicks
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Location |
With the plane in a level attitude the angle we are talking about is between a
vertical through the CG and the tire contact point and the CG. You can find the
actual CG location by doing a "weigh" with the tail down and find the CG spot
on the ground. A line on the fuselage side (vertical) will become a sloped
line when you bring the tail up to level. Do the weigh again and make a new
vertical line. The crossing point of the lines is the actual CG. Pull another
line from that CG location (with the tail still up) to the contact point of
the tires. The angle between the vertical line and the line to the tire contact
point is the angle we are talking about.
The angle isn't going to be very big between the tail down and up CG locations
so measure carefully (a 90=BA angle would be most accurate). A REALLY accurate
way to locate the vertical location would be to just hang the plane up by the
prop and drop a plumb line down beside it but that seems to cause a lot of fluid
leaks. ;-)
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Sloan
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Location
Mike,
I am having a lot of confusion trying to understand this angle thing. 12-14
degrees measured from where to where? I know how to find the C.G. horzontally
but this vertical C.G. point is new to me. Can you clarify this point?
Alex Sloan
alexms1@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Conkling
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Location
My old copy (1965) of "Practical Lightplane Design & Construction" by Bill
Fike listed the average landing angle as being 12 to 14 degrees -- with the fuselage
level, the wheel axle was in-line with the leading edge of the wing (16
degrees down & forward of the CG point) -- for a "cub" like airplane with brakes.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Location
To clarify John's post below, the 16.5 degree angle is with the tail up and
the ship level fore and aft using the top longerons at the cockpit for leveling.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 12:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Location
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet information list
Pieters,
The proper location of the landing gear ground contact point is determined
by the CG of the plane.
The CG of the entire plane is a combination of the horizontal and vertical
centers of gravity. From this point a line may be drawn to the ground contact
point of the landing gear. The angle of this line is usually 16.5 degrees
forward from the vertical if the plane is equiped with brakes, somewhat less
if the plane has no brakes. It might be neccessary to increase this angle if
the thrust line is high, so as to prevent nose over during run up and rough
field operation. However, the heavier the tail load is, the more of a tendency
for ground looping upon landing.
On "Mountain Piet" this angle is about 12 degrees and this seems to work
out OK, both for rough fields and no ground looping tendencies. The brakes
won't hold the plane during run up, so this is not an issue. My tailwheel weight
when the plane is leveled up is only about 9 lbs.
I had attached the spreadsheet used for my plane, however it was too large
for Matronics to accept, so it was bounced. If anyone is interested, I'll
be glad to try and send it directly to you.
Hope all this helps.
John Dilatush NX114D
Salida, CO
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Piet information list |
You need to calculate the thrust and know the moment arm of the prop which gives
you the thrust component of the nose over moment, the brake force (based on
speed of the aircraft to calculate the weight on the wheels and the local friction
coefficient) and the vertical CG location, which gives you the nose over
moment from the wheel brakes, the deceleration of the aircraft times the height
of the CG for the inertia contribution to the nose over moment, and the distance
behind the tire contact point of the CG (which changes as the attitude of
the plane changes, that also changes the lift, changing the weight on the wheels
that changes everything else). Then you do the calculation solving for all
the moments at say every 2 MPH increment to determine the critical speed, angles
and brake force. You also have to factor in the down load available from
the tail and its arm solving for the point where the elevator looses effectiveness.
The one factor that is hard to calculate is how hard your "pucker" is
trying to suck your rear to the pavement and the moment arm from the wheel contact
point to the seat as the nose starts to go over.
Three things are derived from the whole mess.
1) That's why the engineer gets paid as much as he does
2) Now you know why the tricycle gear is so popular with manufacturers
3) That's why we use a "Rule of Thumb" for the angle
If you REALLY want to know the answer to the above I have done it before but it
takes some time and can get expensive. It IS very informative and, by the way,
I wrote the above as I sat in front of the computer so some factors are probably
missing. I would normally do it on paper to make sure I didn't miss anything
and them spread sheet it for each condition.
Anybody want to help finance the paint job on my Taylorcraft? ;-)
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet information list
Hank - given this data how do you calibrate how hard you can press on the brakes
at a given speed to avoid grazing? Rick H.
OK, I'm going to stick my nose in once more. To be useful you need to know
where the contact point of the tire is in relation to the CG in a level attitude.
Sorry guys but all the other measurements don't help much from a nose over
point of view. The other thing that is needed is the height from the ground
to the CG. With those measurements you can calculate the nose over moment and
with the tail force and arm you can calculate exactly how much brake you can
use verses the airspeed. That is what tells you if you are going to have a
"grazer" or a tail dragger.
Hank J
Message 17
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| Subject: | Wood landing gear question |
Hi,
Does the bottom ash block on each landing gear get glued to the legs or is it just
held in place only with the metal fittings?
Thanks,
Ted
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Cabinet makers trick-use a knife instead of a pencil.
There are knives made especialy for this. They're
called "marking knives". Available from all the
woodworking catalogue outlets like Lee Valley Tools
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID&ccurrency1&page32502&category1,42936,42949
Garret Wade and others also. A good blade is the
45=B0 one from exacto. Cutting the top layer of fibres
limits tearout to that line.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: dpaul
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Listers,
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to cut plywood without pulling up
the top layer of ply? Even with new plywood cutting blades I tend to leave
a rough edge. I'm ready to make a cut in the rear seat back so it can be hinged
for inspection access. I would hate to leave a rough or "over sanded" appearance
in a nice looking piece of plywood.
Dave in Missouri
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wood landing gear question |
<013001c3da49$5eaa6940$0101a8c0@domain> <002801c3db0c$21e126c0$57c5fea9@mke>
<005e01c3dbbe$1a2f9120$d401a8c0@Alex>
<044301c3dd64$6004c7e0$ceddf6ce@hjarrett>
<002b01c3dd73$64fbb1a0$1e3b4e0c@cacjis20.jud20.flcourts.org>
From a strength point of view, it won't help any as you
are trying to glue end grain in the legs. End grain won't
hold. I would varnish the block and legs before putting
it all together for moisture protection though.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Brousseau
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 7:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood landing gear question
Hi,
Does the bottom ash block on each landing gear get glued to the legs or is it
just held in place only with the metal fittings?
Thanks,
Ted
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Wood landing gear question |
Hi Ted
I glued and screwed mine together before the metal fittings.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Brousseau
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 9:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood landing gear question
Hi,
Does the bottom ash block on each landing gear get glued to the legs or is it
just held in place only with the metal fittings?
Thanks,
Ted
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