Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:00 AM - Re: Cutting plywood (Jack Phillips)
2. 05:00 AM - Ted's advice--and flaring too HIGH (Michael D Cuy)
3. 05:27 AM - Re: Wood landing gear question (Michael D Cuy)
4. 07:58 AM - The best Pietenpol article yet..... (Jim Markle)
5. 10:01 AM - Re: landings (Hodgson, Mark O)
6. 11:20 AM - Re: horizontal stab dimensions (Rick Holland)
7. 11:40 AM - Re: The best Pietenpol article yet..... (walt evans)
8. 11:46 AM - ZS-VJA Flies (Norman Stapelberg)
9. 11:52 AM - congratulations, Mark ! (Michael D Cuy)
10. 11:54 AM - Control Surface deflexions (Norman Stapelberg)
11. 12:02 PM - Re: horizontal stab dimensions (Mike)
12. 12:03 PM - Re: ZS-VJA Flies (walt evans)
13. 01:58 PM - Re: Control Surface deflexions (walt evans)
14. 03:18 PM - definition of sweep (Christian Bobka)
15. 03:41 PM - Re: Cutting plywood (Carl Loar)
16. 04:09 PM - Re: Control Surface deflections (DJ Vegh)
17. 04:12 PM - elevator/rudder control cable tension and slack (DJ Vegh)
18. 04:37 PM - Re: Cutting plywood (Alex Sloan)
19. 05:13 PM - Re: Cutting plywood (Alex Sloan)
20. 05:17 PM - Re: ZS-VJA Flies (Alex Sloan)
21. 05:40 PM - Re: horizontal stab dimensions (Brants)
22. 06:00 PM - Re: Ted's advice--and flaring too HIGH (Graham Hansen)
23. 06:39 PM - Re: horizontal stab dimensions (Christian Bobka)
Message 1
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I guess I got off lucky - I only had 14 stitches in my thumb after violating
rule #2. Be VERY careful as the cutter finishes piercing the metal. At
that point it can have a tendency to "bite" into the work piece and can pull
it out of your hand over even out of the clamps holding it to the bench if
you are not careful. I consider the fly cutter to be one of the most
dangerous tools in the shop. Be sure there is somebody home who can drive
you to the hospital while you are using it. Seriously.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian
Bobka
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Two rules of fly cutting.
Never use it in anything BUT a drill press.
Never hold the item being flycut in your hand. It MUST be clamped to the
drill press table and you have one hand on the downfeed and the other poised
over the off switch. That way you never have to look away from the work
until after the drill press is shut off.
Chris Bobka
who drove his USMC aviator buddy to the hospital for 30+ stiches in his palm
after he violated rule 2.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson <mailto:cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Don't use this thing in a hand drill. It is very
much out of balance with one cutter way off
center, and be very careful of it in a drill press.
It has a lot of torque so take it easy. There is
one I've seen with a counter weight on the
opposite side but most don't.
It does work quite well in a drill press following
Walt's rules. If you want to cut thick material
drill the center hole first and it will go easier.
There is another fly cutter. It's a very
small knife. Buzzzz.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans <mailto:wbeevans@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Here is one pic I found on the net. It's adjustable for hole size. The BIG
trick for a good hole is to cut about half way thru on one side and turn
wood over to finish. This way no raggid edges
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnwac@cs.com <mailto:Gnwac@cs.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
What is a FLY CUTTER?
Greg
Delaware
Message 2
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| Subject: | Ted's advice--and flaring too HIGH |
>
<003401c3daa0$c3e43000$b50ba5d1@LOU>
<007101c3dba2$0ad7b700$0101a8c0@domain>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Ted B's words on landings in a Piet were right on with what I've
experienced and Ted has more time in a Piet than I do plus has been flying
since I was 5 years old. Gosh Ted, you must have gotten your ticket when
you were 16 ! You are not that old !!
The only words I would add to what Ted had to say is that first time
flights in a Piet/GN-1, the pilots tend to flare too high. You just are
not accustomed to being that low to the ground (visually) in anything
you've ever flown before. I looks like you are going to burry the plane
on flare but you don't. Just like in a 'tall' taildragger like a Stearman,
my first desire was to "make it look right by making it look like what I
see on the Piet during landing." That was a mistake. Each plane has
it's "view" during the touchdown and the best way to etch that view in your
mind is to sit on the runway or taxiway and visualize where the horizon
crosses thru your nose---get that picture in your head before you fly it
and when you flare, that is the view you need to see to feel for mother
earth. Sounds simple, but it works if you study it before your flight.
Mike C. in balmy 6 F weather !
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wood landing gear question |
>
<013001c3da49$5eaa6940$0101a8c0@domain>
<002801c3db0c$21e126c0$57c5fea9@mke>
<005e01c3dbbe$1a2f9120$d401a8c0@Alex>
<044301c3dd64$6004c7e0$ceddf6ce@hjarrett>
>Does the bottom ash block on each landing gear get glued to the legs or is
>it just held in place only with the metal fittings?
>
Ted-- I got as tight of fit there as I could and T-88'ed those pieces
together. First I held them in place with masking tape to get my fittings
formed just right so they would not put any force on the legs or ash piece
and then glued the blocks in and later did the varnishing, etc.
Mike C.
Message 4
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| Subject: | The best Pietenpol article yet..... |
Well, I think it's just about the best one I've seen.....
"The Pasture Pilot's Pride & Joy" was published in 1965 and it's a great article
about the Pietenpol Air Camper with some mention of the Sky Scout......
This is a good one......
If you'll go into your browser's internet options and disable "Automatic Image
Resizing", the pages will display in a size that you can print on your printer
at just about the same quality as the original. Or you can save the file to
your local drive.
It's in the File Library section of mykitplane.com:
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID43>
Enjoy
JM
Message 5
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
FWIW, I got my tailwheel endorsement yesterday, so when my instructor
said I was "almost there" on New Year's day he meant it. It was the
first time I've flown since then, and a chilly, gusty day in southern
New Hampshire (but then, we've been getting your Canadian Arctic air a
lot the past couple of weeks). Good for demonstrating cross-wind wheel
landings, and from the looks of your note I'll need that skill someday
when I'm ready to fly my Piet.
Thanks again to the list for all of the useful comments,
Mark Hodgson
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: horizontal stab dimensions |
Tom
My long (172 3/8) fuselage plans (Supplementary Plans) shows the
distance from the tailpost to the back of the turtledeck 18 7/8" not 19
3/8". Thats only a 7/8" difference. Still makes you wonder if you should
build the stab 18" or 18 7/8" wide.
Rick H
Alex Sloan wrote:
> Chris,
> I am building the long fuselage and would appreciate the information
> you worked up on larger stabs.
> Thanks
> Alex Sloan
> alexms@bellsouth.net <mailto:alexms@bellsouth.net>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brants <mailto:tmbrant@usfamily.net>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
>
> Chris,
>
> I am the one that asked the original question.... You're correct
> in saying that the drawings stand alone, however if I'd been smart
> I could have figured on making a larger stabilizer...
>
> According to your comments (if I interpreted correctly) the 172
> 3/8" fuse (this is what I have) requires a larger stabilizer (and
> elevator??)... My previous post asks this question - can I use
> the 18" stab (and elevator) now that they're built, or do I need
> to modify or rebuild?
>
> I would be interested in getting a copy of your article on this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Brant
> Brooklyn Park, MN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christian Bobka <mailto:bobka@compuserve.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
>
> Walt,
>
> You are concerned with a concept called tail volume. Tail
> volume is the square inch area of the horizontal surface
> (elevator and satbilizer together) times the distance in
> inches from the center of pressure of the horizontal
> stabilizer to the Center of Gravity, this being the point of
> rotation about which the aircraft moves based on input of the
> controls.
>
> As there are three wood fuselages that I know of, namely the
> version in the F&G manual and on the Hoopman drawings at 161
> inches, the 1933 "Improved Aircamper" at 163 inches, and the
> fuselage designed for the Corvair at 172.375 inches, I am not
> sure which one you mean. I always called the Corvair fuselage
> the Pavliga long fuselage because, well, it is the longest and
> it is the fuselage used on Sky Gypsy.
>
> Anyway, if you take the square inch area of each horizontal
> design times the distance in inches from the loaded CG to the
> 33% chord point on each stabilizer design, you will come up
> with the tail volume...volume because the units will now be
> cubic inches. The hardest thing will be to figure out your
> loaded CG.
>
> If you make the distance between the CG to the CP of the
> stabilizer longer, you can get by with a smaller stabilizer
> area. Shorten up the CG to CP distance and you need to
> increase the tail area.
>
> My analysis of the different fuselages leads me to believe
> that using the 172.375 fuselage moves the seats back faster
> than the tail gets longer so it actually puts the CG further
> aft than on the shorter fuselages. This means that the CG to
> Cp of the stabilizer is actually a shorter distance so a
> bigger area stabilizer is needed.
>
> Unfortunately, the 172.375" fuselage drawing is a stand
> alone. No landing gear was ever published for it and neither
> is there a obviously a stabilizer.
>
> I wrote an article on gear placement on the 172.375 inch
> fuselage that was to be published in the Grant MacLaren
> published BPA NL but it never made it because the very issue
> it was to be published in was never published as he quit the
> post. I will dig it out. Only a hard copy exists, and even
> it is one of the drafts, so I will have to scan it to OCR
> software and see if I can post it.
>
> I hope this helps. I wish people said what inch fuselage they
> have when they talk of stuff like this as it really matters
> (or maybe it doesn't since they all seem to meet each
> aviator's expectations)
>
> Chris Bobka
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: walt evans <mailto:wbeevans@verizon.net>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
>
> I didn't know they were different. I built the long fuse
> and the tail was from the original prints, so I guess I
> got the wrong one. but flies great. What two prints show
> different tails???
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brants <mailto:tmbrant@usfamily.net>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:37 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
>
> I built the long fuselage and then (idiodically) built
> the horiz. stab for the short fuse (18" wide instead
> of 19 3/8") - didn't realize until today when I tried
> fitting it up. Question: can I glue a wider leading
> edge to the horizontal stab to make up the
> difference? Obviously this would add a bit of weight
> to the tail section.. Or could I just fill in behind
> the turtle deck to take up the space? Difference is
> about 1 3/8". Is the 1 3/8" width going to be missed
> if I leave it out? Does this cause a problem getting
> away from the 'airfoil shape'?
>
> Another related question: does the horiz. stab get
> bolted through the longerons?
>
> Any help on this would be appreciated.
>
> Tom Brant
> Brooklyn Park, MN
>
>
>
>
> ------ USFamily.Net <http://www.usfamily.net/info> -
>
>
> ------ USFamily.Net <http://www.usfamily.net/info> - Unlimited
> Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: The best Pietenpol article yet..... |
Jim,
Thanks, I really enjoyed that article and pictures. The core of why I built a
Pietenpol.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The best Pietenpol article yet.....
Well, I think it's just about the best one I've seen.....
"The Pasture Pilot's Pride & Joy" was published in 1965 and it's a great article
about the Pietenpol Air Camper with some mention of the Sky Scout......
This is a good one......
If you'll go into your browser's internet options and disable "Automatic Image
Resizing", the pages will display in a size that you can print on your printer
at just about the same quality as the original. Or you can save the file to
your local drive.
It's in the File Library section of mykitplane.com:
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID43>
Enjoy
JM
Message 8
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Hi all
Just thought I'd pop in a quick note my baby flew Sunday for the first
time in two years. Got some small mods to do,
1. prop to be repitched (only getting 2000Rpm static).
2. Battery to be moved C of G tad to far fwd.
3. A.S.I to be calibrated
Regards,
Norman Stapelberg
ZS-VJA (115Hrs)
South Africa
FASI
Message 9
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| Subject: | congratulations, Mark ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
>FWIW, I got my tailwheel endorsement yesterday,
Way to go, Mark !!!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Control Surface deflexions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel@mweb.co.za>
Hi all
Just thought I'd throw this one out there, my pilot/instructor says that
I need control surface stop put in. Just by the way what must the
deflexions be for the control surfaces? I cannot seem to find them any
where.
Regards,
Norman Stapelberg
ZS-VJA (115Hrs)
South Africa
FASI
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: horizontal stab dimensions |
MIME_QP_LONG_LINE
Rick,
If it really bothers a builder to have to build a cover for the gap, it
might be cheaper to build the turtle deck longer. I don't think anyone has
ever complained that a properly configured Piet has insufficient horizontal
stabilizer area, though it is well documented that large, covered, wheels
make it want some more vertical stabilizer.
You probably can't hurt the design by enlarging the horizontal stab area,
but be sure to keep the front flying wires the same distance from the
leading edge. Tail flutter hasn't historically been a problem but,
considering how limber the thin stab is, you don't want to be the first to
flutter test it.
Mike Hardaway
on 1/20/04 11:19, Rick Holland at at7000ft@speedtrail.net wrote:
Tom
My long (172 3/8) fuselage plans (Supplementary Plans) shows the distance
from the tailpost to the back of the turtledeck 18 7/8" not 19 3/8". Thats
only a 7/8" difference. Still makes you wonder if you should build the stab
18" or 18 7/8" wide.
Rick H
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: ZS-VJA Flies |
Norman,
Good for you! I've seen alot of things from my Piet, but never a giraffe ,elephant
or hippo (Oh my)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman Stapelberg
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ZS-VJA Flies
Hi all
Just thought I'd pop in a quick note my baby flew Sunday for the first time in
two years. Got some small mods to do,
1.. prop to be repitched (only getting 2000Rpm static).
2.. Battery to be moved C of G tad to far fwd.
3.. A.S.I to be calibrated
Regards,
Norman Stapelberg
ZS-VJA (115Hrs)
South Africa
FASI
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface deflexions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Norman,
I put stops for aileron deflection only, as per my DAR. Small wood blocks
glued in place on the floor, topped with leather for the torque horns to
"bump" on. They hit the blocks 'just before' the lower part of the aileron
contacts the wing. As for the elevator/rudder, explained that they all had
complete free movement with no possibility of interference with each other,
so the DAR accepted that.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control Surface deflexions
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Norman Stapelberg"
<norshel@mweb.co.za>
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Just thought I'd throw this one out there, my pilot/instructor says that
> I need control surface stop put in. Just by the way what must the
> deflexions be for the control surfaces? I cannot seem to find them any
> where.
>
> Regards,
> Norman Stapelberg
> ZS-VJA (115Hrs)
> South Africa
> FASI
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | definition of sweep |
I had a question as to what I meant by sweep of the axle. The sweep is how far
back from the center of the front landing gear attach point the axle is located.
If the axle had zero sweep, it would be located directly under the center
of the front landing gear attach fitting with the fuselage leveled longitudinally.
A 5 inch sweep would have the axle mounted directly beneath a point 5 inches
aft of the center of the from landing gear attach point.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: MacklemAW@aol.com
To: bobka@compuserve.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:48 AM
Subject: Axle Positioning
Chris,
Please define "sweep" of the axle for me.
Allan W. Macklem
TEL: 402 289 2298 FAX: 402 289 3474
"Personal growth comes from being
surrounded by smarter people."
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
I agree with Jack, this type of flycutter is very tricky to use. ( there is also
a flycutter that's used with milling machines to smooth large sufaces) If you
are going to use this, use clamps to secure the work and imagine the area that
the work would spin in if it started rotating.Then keep all body parts out
of that area. Also, make sure that the cutters are tight on the piece. There
are cutters with tools on both sides. If your going to use one, this type is best
as the cut is balanced. I believe harbor frieght carries that type.
Please use with caution.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
I guess I got off lucky - I only had 14 stitches in my thumb after violating
rule #2. Be VERY careful as the cutter finishes piercing the metal. At that
point it can have a tendency to "bite" into the work piece and can pull it out
of your hand over even out of the clamps holding it to the bench if you are not
careful. I consider the fly cutter to be one of the most dangerous tools in
the shop. Be sure there is somebody home who can drive you to the hospital
while you are using it. Seriously.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bobka
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:26 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Two rules of fly cutting.
Never use it in anything BUT a drill press.
Never hold the item being flycut in your hand. It MUST be clamped to the drill
press table and you have one hand on the downfeed and the other poised over
the off switch. That way you never have to look away from the work until after
the drill press is shut off.
Chris Bobka
who drove his USMC aviator buddy to the hospital for 30+ stiches in his palm
after he violated rule 2.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Don't use this thing in a hand drill. It is very
much out of balance with one cutter way off
center, and be very careful of it in a drill press.
It has a lot of torque so take it easy. There is
one I've seen with a counter weight on the
opposite side but most don't.
It does work quite well in a drill press following
Walt's rules. If you want to cut thick material
drill the center hole first and it will go easier.
There is another fly cutter. It's a very
small knife. Buzzzz.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Here is one pic I found on the net. It's adjustable for hole size. The BIG
trick for a good hole is to cut about half way thru on one side and turn wood
over to finish. This way no raggid edges
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnwac@cs.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
What is a FLY CUTTER?
Greg
Delaware
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface deflections |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
on the subject of control cable deflections..... how many degrees are we
looking for in the elevator and rudder?
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
Message 17
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| Subject: | elevator/rudder control cable tension and slack |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
How many pounds should the elevator and rudder control cables be set to?
Also, is it common for the elevator cables to lose some tension and slack
when actuating the stick?
For instance.... my elevator "up" pull cable is tight when pulling the
stick back, but the "down" pull cable loses some tension and slacks
slightly. Is this a bad thing?
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Chris,
Another rule for using the fly cutter, feed it into the material SLOWLY.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Two rules of fly cutting.
Never use it in anything BUT a drill press.
Never hold the item being flycut in your hand. It MUST be clamped to the drill
press table and you have one hand on the downfeed and the other poised over
the off switch. That way you never have to look away from the work until after
the drill press is shut off.
Chris Bobka
who drove his USMC aviator buddy to the hospital for 30+ stiches in his palm
after he violated rule 2.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Don't use this thing in a hand drill. It is very
much out of balance with one cutter way off
center, and be very careful of it in a drill press.
It has a lot of torque so take it easy. There is
one I've seen with a counter weight on the
opposite side but most don't.
It does work quite well in a drill press following
Walt's rules. If you want to cut thick material
drill the center hole first and it will go easier.
There is another fly cutter. It's a very
small knife. Buzzzz.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Here is one pic I found on the net. It's adjustable for hole size. The
BIG trick for a good hole is to cut about half way thru on one side and turn wood
over to finish. This way no raggid edges
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnwac@cs.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
What is a FLY CUTTER?
Greg
Delaware
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting plywood |
Carl,
The only accident I have witnesse was with one of those double cutting fly cutters
with cutters on both sides. They scare me. I have not seen any one mention
where to buy the fly cutters..Sears has two sizes to offer. They do not call
them fly cutters. Cannot recall their designation for them.
My advice for any one using one, be sure the work is clamped down tightly and there
is clerance for the tool on all sides. To get an acurate hole cut I found
it best to use a piece of scrap to use to make a small cut then measure the
diameter to see if it is what is desired.
If the work piece is not clamped securely chatter is a possibility and the tool
will not cut as you want.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Loar
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
I agree with Jack, this type of flycutter is very tricky to use. ( there is also
a flycutter that's used with milling machines to smooth large sufaces) If
you are going to use this, use clamps to secure the work and imagine the area
that the work would spin in if it started rotating.Then keep all body parts out
of that area. Also, make sure that the cutters are tight on the piece. There
are cutters with tools on both sides. If your going to use one, this type is
best as the cut is balanced. I believe harbor frieght carries that type.
Please use with caution.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
I guess I got off lucky - I only had 14 stitches in my thumb after violating
rule #2. Be VERY careful as the cutter finishes piercing the metal. At that
point it can have a tendency to "bite" into the work piece and can pull it out
of your hand over even out of the clamps holding it to the bench if you are
not careful. I consider the fly cutter to be one of the most dangerous tools
in the shop. Be sure there is somebody home who can drive you to the hospital
while you are using it. Seriously.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bobka
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:26 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Two rules of fly cutting.
Never use it in anything BUT a drill press.
Never hold the item being flycut in your hand. It MUST be clamped to the drill
press table and you have one hand on the downfeed and the other poised over
the off switch. That way you never have to look away from the work until after
the drill press is shut off.
Chris Bobka
who drove his USMC aviator buddy to the hospital for 30+ stiches in his palm
after he violated rule 2.
chris bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Don't use this thing in a hand drill. It is very
much out of balance with one cutter way off
center, and be very careful of it in a drill press.
It has a lot of torque so take it easy. There is
one I've seen with a counter weight on the
opposite side but most don't.
It does work quite well in a drill press following
Walt's rules. If you want to cut thick material
drill the center hole first and it will go easier.
There is another fly cutter. It's a very
small knife. Buzzzz.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
Here is one pic I found on the net. It's adjustable for hole size. The BIG
trick for a good hole is to cut about half way thru on one side and turn wood
over to finish. This way no raggid edges
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnwac@cs.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting plywood
What is a FLY CUTTER?
Greg
Delaware
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: ZS-VJA Flies |
Great going Norman. Keep us informed.
Alex S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman Stapelberg
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ZS-VJA Flies
Hi all
Just thought I'd pop in a quick note my baby flew Sunday for the first time in
two years. Got some small mods to do,
1.. prop to be repitched (only getting 2000Rpm static).
2.. Battery to be moved C of G tad to far fwd.
3.. A.S.I to be calibrated
Regards,
Norman Stapelberg
ZS-VJA (115Hrs)
South Africa
FASI
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: horizontal stab dimensions |
Rick,
If you look at the top "plan view" drawing of the 172 3/8" fuse (I'll call it Fuselage
C), it shows 19 3/8" from the back of the vertical brace (same place as
a horizontal brace?) to the tailpost. Then in the layout below which shows
the turtledeck, it shows 18 7/8" from back of turtledeck to the tailpost.. I
nailed a 1/8" piece of ply to the back of the brace (19 3/8") to which my turtledeck
stringers are mounted. So in theory, the dimension in mine from turtledeck
to tailpost is 19 1/4" I don't know how they came up with 18 7/8" unless
I hosed something up, which is entirely possible.
Tom B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
Tom
My long (172 3/8) fuselage plans (Supplementary Plans) shows the distance from
the tailpost to the back of the turtledeck 18 7/8" not 19 3/8". Thats only a
7/8" difference. Still makes you wonder if you should build the stab 18" or 18
7/8" wide.
Rick H
Alex Sloan wrote:
Chris,
I am building the long fuselage and would appreciate the information you worked
up on larger stabs.
Thanks
Alex Sloan
alexms@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Brants
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
Chris,
I am the one that asked the original question.... You're correct in saying
that the drawings stand alone, however if I'd been smart I could have figured
on making a larger stabilizer...
According to your comments (if I interpreted correctly) the 172 3/8" fuse
(this is what I have) requires a larger stabilizer (and elevator??)... My previous
post asks this question - can I use the 18" stab (and elevator) now that
they're built, or do I need to modify or rebuild?
I would be interested in getting a copy of your article on this.
Thanks,
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
Walt,
You are concerned with a concept called tail volume. Tail volume is the
square inch area of the horizontal surface (elevator and satbilizer together)
times the distance in inches from the center of pressure of the horizontal stabilizer
to the Center of Gravity, this being the point of rotation about which
the aircraft moves based on input of the controls.
As there are three wood fuselages that I know of, namely the version in
the F&G manual and on the Hoopman drawings at 161 inches, the 1933 "Improved
Aircamper" at 163 inches, and the fuselage designed for the Corvair at 172.375
inches, I am not sure which one you mean. I always called the Corvair fuselage
the Pavliga long fuselage because, well, it is the longest and it is the fuselage
used on Sky Gypsy.
Anyway, if you take the square inch area of each horizontal design times
the distance in inches from the loaded CG to the 33% chord point on each stabilizer
design, you will come up with the tail volume...volume because the units
will now be cubic inches. The hardest thing will be to figure out your loaded
CG.
If you make the distance between the CG to the CP of the stabilizer longer,
you can get by with a smaller stabilizer area. Shorten up the CG to CP distance
and you need to increase the tail area.
My analysis of the different fuselages leads me to believe that using the
172.375 fuselage moves the seats back faster than the tail gets longer so it
actually puts the CG further aft than on the shorter fuselages. This means
that the CG to Cp of the stabilizer is actually a shorter distance so a bigger
area stabilizer is needed.
Unfortunately, the 172.375" fuselage drawing is a stand alone. No landing
gear was ever published for it and neither is there a obviously a stabilizer.
I wrote an article on gear placement on the 172.375 inch fuselage that
was to be published in the Grant MacLaren published BPA NL but it never made it
because the very issue it was to be published in was never published as he quit
the post. I will dig it out. Only a hard copy exists, and even it is one
of the drafts, so I will have to scan it to OCR software and see if I can post
it.
I hope this helps. I wish people said what inch fuselage they have when
they talk of stuff like this as it really matters (or maybe it doesn't since
they all seem to meet each aviator's expectations)
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
I didn't know they were different. I built the long fuse and the tail
was from the original prints, so I guess I got the wrong one. but flies great.
What two prints show different tails???
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Brants
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
I built the long fuselage and then (idiodically) built the horiz. stab
for the short fuse (18" wide instead of 19 3/8") - didn't realize until today
when I tried fitting it up. Question: can I glue a wider leading edge to
the horizontal stab to make up the difference? Obviously this would add a bit
of weight to the tail section.. Or could I just fill in behind the turtle
deck to take up the space? Difference is about 1 3/8". Is the 1 3/8" width going
to be missed if I leave it out? Does this cause a problem getting away from
the 'airfoil shape'?
Another related question: does the horiz. stab get bolted through
the longerons?
Any help on this would be appreciated.
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Ted's advice--and flaring too HIGH |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Another tip:
If landing on a runway with a crop on either side, you will
experience a tendency to round out and flare too high. I've
been there and done that!
The tops of the plants will give you a false reference and if
you don't compensate for it, you will "drop 'er on".
This effect is more apparent if the vegetation is tall and the
runway is narrow.
In the flare one has to look to the side of the nose to judge
height, and a tall crop nearby makes this difficult. A little bit
of power enables the pilot to "feel" for the ground under
these conditions.
I find that my landings improve once the harvest is finished.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: horizontal stab dimensions |
Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensionsUse a piece of light spruce to fair
the gap. Under the fabric, you won't notice.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stab dimensions
Rick,
If it really bothers a builder to have to build a cover for the gap, it might
be cheaper to build the turtle deck longer. I don't think anyone has ever complained
that a properly configured Piet has insufficient horizontal stabilizer
area, though it is well documented that large, covered, wheels make it want
some more vertical stabilizer.
You probably can't hurt the design by enlarging the horizontal stab area, but
be sure to keep the front flying wires the same distance from the leading edge.
Tail flutter hasn't historically been a problem but, considering how limber
the thin stab is, you don't want to be the first to flutter test it.
Mike Hardaway
on 1/20/04 11:19, Rick Holland at at7000ft@speedtrail.net wrote:
Tom
My long (172 3/8) fuselage plans (Supplementary Plans) shows the distance from
the tailpost to the back of the turtledeck 18 7/8" not 19 3/8". Thats only
a 7/8" difference. Still makes you wonder if you should build the stab 18" or
18 7/8" wide.
Rick H
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