Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Re: Rib jig (Rcaprd@aol.com)
2. 07:40 AM - Seattle visit next week...... (Jim Markle)
3. 08:09 AM - Re: Seattle visit next week...... ()
4. 11:06 AM - about a different type of flying (walt evans)
5. 01:00 PM - Rib jig (Deon Engelmann)
6. 01:33 PM - Re: Rib jig (Andimaxd@aol.com)
7. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Tail Volume (PHILIP HUMPHREY)
8. 02:18 PM - Re: Seattle visit next week...... (dave rowe)
9. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Tail Volume (Rcaprd@aol.com)
10. 06:03 PM - corvair conversion cost (Brants)
11. 07:08 PM - Re: Rib jig (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 07:28 PM - Re:New Pictures (Bert Conoly)
13. 08:20 PM - More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
14. 09:07 PM - Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (Mike Whaley)
15. 09:42 PM - Re: Seattle visit next week...... (Clif Dawson)
16. 09:48 PM - Re: Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
17. 10:17 PM - Re: Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
18. 10:21 PM - Re: Rib jig (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
19. 10:48 PM - Fuselage Table idea (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 1/24/04 1:25:14 PM Central Standard Time,
engelmannd@icon.co.za writes:
<< Does anyone have an accurate cad drawing for a rib with 1" holes for the
spars?
I want to make a three piece wing with 1" routed spars >>
Deon,
If you just measure out the dimensions listed on the plans, then blend in the
place on the top where there is a little dip, you'll be just fine to build
the ribs to this shape.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
NX770CG
Message 2
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Subject: | Seattle visit next week...... |
Clif Dawson and I are going to the Boeing Museum (I know it's not called that but
that's where it is and I don't remember the correct name and I'm too lazy right
now to investigate) next Sunday, Feb 1. One of the Concords is there along
with the rest of the really cool stuff they already have.....excellent aviation
museum.
So this is an inviation for anyone in the area so inclined.....to join us......
I arrive at SEATAC around 10:45 and will go directly to the museum to meet Clif......
Jim in Plano
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Seattle visit next week...... |
Don't miss "The Red Barn". This is Boeing's original building. It has been restored
and is attached to the main museum building.
I was there last October and all of the really cool stuff is located there.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seattle visit next week......
Clif Dawson and I are going to the Boeing Museum (I know it's not called that
but that's where it is and I don't remember the correct name and I'm too lazy
right now to investigate) next Sunday, Feb 1. One of the Concords is there along
with the rest of the really cool stuff they already have.....excellent aviation
museum.
So this is an inviation for anyone in the area so inclined.....to join us......
I arrive at SEATAC around 10:45 and will go directly to the museum to meet Clif......
Jim in Plano
Message 4
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Subject: | about a different type of flying |
Don't know if anyone's seen this link. Cam on the mars rover that you can pan
around and zoom. Need quicktime though.
http://www.panoramas.dk/fullscreen3/f2_mars.html
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 5
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Hi
Here are some pics of my rib jig.
The paper will be removed and the rib redrawn on the jig when completed
Please give comments and critique as needed.
Thanx
Deon Engelmann
EAA322 Midrand # SA12055
Pretoria
South Africa
Message 6
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Deon:
Make sure that, when you finish your jig, all of the ribs will be identical.
On mine, the outside cannot move and everything is pinned up against it from
the inside. This produces identical ribs. The cams are not bottomed out.
The holes are offset and will turn farther if the wood happens to be a little
narrower, or not as far if the strips are a little wider. Then secured with the
wing-nuts. There will be some variance in the cap strips and some of them
are more flexible than others. From the look of your jig right now, it looks
like if some of the strips bend easier than others, the curves on the bottom and
top of your ribs may change from rib to rib. But that's your call, this is
what makes homebuilding so much fun.
You have drawn in uprights on both sides of the spars. You don't really need
this, you only need them on the inboard sides of your spars; you will put in
compression X-bracing wires inside the wing which will force the spars
together. If you feel you must put them (the uprights) in anyway, wait until you
have glued the ribs to the spars or you will have a very difficult time sliding
them on to the spars. If you put them on last you will have a much tighter
fit/and less cursing !!
I used wax paper and scotch tape to keep the glue off of the jig. If you
could make the jig out of Plexiglas you wouldn't need anything as the glue would
not stick. I could not find anything thick enough made out of plastic that
was large enough and affordable. I have read where others have and said it
worked quite well.
Let me know if you have any other questions or don't understand my view point
on something.
You better get to bed boy, isn't it like 11:30 p.m. there?
md
PS Did you get those pics of my plane, what do you think?
Message 7
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "PHILIP HUMPHREY" <phil.humphrey@btopenworld.com>
Hi,
There was a UK homebuilt with a 16% thick gottingen 535 wing section -
heavily undercambered - it's CofG range was 25% - 35% and it needed a
tailplane incidence of +3 degrees. Didn't go very fast!
Phil Humphrey
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
>............. Does anyone have the C.G. range of the Ryan Navion, or any
other plane that has an undercambered
> airfoil ?
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Seattle visit next week...... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
If that is the one at Paine field, then don't miss the Me-262 hangar,
they are building 5 exact flying replica ME-262s. It's a great tour.
#1 has flown, but had a minor accident involving the landing gear, is
probably ready to re-commence with testing. Dave Rowe
> Jim Markle wrote:
>
>
> Clif Dawson and I are going to the Boeing Museum (I know it's not
> called that but that's where it is and I don't remember the correct
> name and I'm too lazy right now to investigate) next Sunday, Feb 1.
> One of the Concords is there along with the rest of the really cool
> stuff they already have.....excellent aviation museum.
>
> So this is an inviation for anyone in the area so inclined.....to join
> us......
>
> I arrive at SEATAC around 10:45 and will go directly to the museum to
> meet Clif......
>
> Jim in Plano
Message 9
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
>............. Does anyone have the C.G. range of the Ryan Navion, or any
other plane that has an undercambered
> airfoil ?
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG >>
In a message dated 1/25/04 4:08:15 PM Central Standard Time,
phil.humphrey@btopenworld.com writes:
<< Hi,
There was a UK homebuilt with a 16% thick gottingen 535 wing section -
heavily undercambered - it's CofG range was 25% - 35% and it needed a
tailplane incidence of +3 degrees. Didn't go very fast!
Phil Humphrey
Thanks Phil !!
That supports my suspicion as to the reason the Pietenpol has an aft C.G.
limit so far back. Bernard Harold Pietenpol called out one third, or 33
1/3% = 20" behind the leading edge, for the aft C.G. limit on the Pietenpol
Airfoil.
Should someone Change the shape of the Airfoil, say flattening out the
bottom of the ribs, and maintain the Pietenpol C.G. range, the aft range will be
VERY DANGEROUS. This is another reason to build the ribs to the plans.
The Pietenpol plans call out to build the horizontal stab with zero
incidence (paralell to the longerons). The wing, however, has 2 of positive
incidence, by making the forward cabane struts one inch longer than the aft ones.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Message 10
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Subject: | corvair conversion cost |
Anyone out there willing to share what money they have into their corvair conversion?
Just trying to get a rough idea so I can channel my limetted building
funds appropriately.
Thanks,
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
Message 11
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Deon,
I'm going to try the picture thing. This is my first try with this new
fangled digital camera, so let me know if it turns out.
As Max pointed out, the outside perimiter of all the ribs must be
identical. From the looks of your rib jig, it doesn't appear you have these supports
installed yet. Make sure the capstrips contact these blocks, with some type
of blocking from the opposite side. Max used a cam lobe, which is the method
I used when I built the ribs for my Tailwind, and it works really well. It
compensates for variations in the thickness (1/4") of the capstrips. The other
dimension that you have to pay particular attention to, is the dimension
between the spars. The plans call out 27 3/4" between the spars. If you cut a
piece of scrap wood to the dimensions of the spars, (1" X 4 3/4") then install
these blocks where the spars go. Make these blocks about 5/8" or 3/4" long, so
they stick up higher than the capstrips, and you can install the gussets up
against it, and maintain identical placements of the gussets. An actual piece
of the spar itself would be even better, if you already have the spars, and
you can afford to cut a couple of pieces off the end of the spar. Just make
sure your spars are long enough, beforehand.
I think the gussets you have marked out on your paper, between the spars,
could be just a little bit longer. I made mine 1 3/4" X 1". I see you
haven't yet drawn in the one on the top.
A small problem I had when I was building my ribs, was that the 1/2"
dimension varied in the capstrips, and some of the upright sticks wasn't quite
flush with the top & bottom cap strips, where the gussets go. I made small
sanding blocks, with sticky back 100 grit sand paper, and plane down the area where
the gussets go, so it was flush. Be sure to remove all dust, before you glue
the gussets on with T88 adhesive. You could use wax paper, or some type of
package tape on the places you don't want the adhesive to stick.
After the adhesive has thoroughly cured, and you carefully pop the rib
out of the jig, flip it over to install the gussets on the other side. Rough up
the area a little bit because it will be as smooth as the non stick surface,
where the epoxy runs down. Install new pieces in the jig, so you can use the
same batch of adhesive for both opporations. You'll eventually figure out how
big a batch you need. Don't use wax coated cups to mix epoxy. When you
have extra epoxy left over, make a destructive test piece, with scraps.
I numbered (with a pencil, where there wasn't going to be any adhesive),
and cut all the cap strip lengths, and gussets, after I built my second rib.
It's a slow process to complete a ship set of ribs, but it is an enjoyable
opporation. A rib a day.
It's a good idea to build two extra ribs, one for destructive tests, and
one to proudly hang on your wall !! This also gives you the opportunity to
select the best ones for the wing.
When you're all done with the ribs, you've earned the right to do the
dance called the 'Rib Jig' !!!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
NX770CG
Message 12
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
If anybody is interested, we started covering last weekend....
I posted a few new pictures to my website\
Bert
http://bconoly.tripod.com/
Message 13
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Subject: | More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet |
Howdy all from Texas.
Finally got a chance to work some more this weekend on the Piet. Also, added
a few pics to the link below to fill in the progress made in the past few
months.... slow but sure.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=188
Im not sure why, but all the pics have a blue hue to them. Makes us look
like smurfs. Anysay, notice the spring gear re-build job done by my partner Lon
Carr back in October. We are now very happy with a straight and true gear.
The detail design of this gear is part Piet and part Hatz CB1.
Today, I finally swallowed hard and got out that mean old fly-cutter and
bored all the instrument holes in the rear panel. Had to do it on the ship since
it was already permanently glued and nailed in place by the previous builder.
Man that fly-cutter worked GREAT. Keys to a good job...
1) start with a sharp cutter tool.
2) keep a firm grip (used 14V Dewalt cordless drill)
3) keep a square alignment to the workpiece
4) don't cut slow...go ahead and cut fast enough to mell the smoke.
5) use a backing board (clamped) to prevent the farside last ply from tearing
away.
6) Be safe.
Use a removed front bezel from an old instrument as a drill guide for perfect
alignment.
Had a great weekend teaching my 9 yr-old stepson some sheet metal fabrication
techniques. We built some channel stiffeners to bridge between the rear
instrument and the front pit headrest. Also the ones forward of the front
instrument panel. Added #8 nut plates for anchoring the cockpit cowlings.
See also the attached pic. Those instruments really add some life. Since
the original panel has some old stains from nails we have purchased some
sticky-back wood veneer, which we will use to finish out the panel. Its getting
closer...just slow.
All the best.
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet |
What's that instrument right above the tach... the audio engine failure detection
device? hehehe
BTW, blue/yellow hues in digital photos are usually caused by having your camera
set for the wrong kind of lighting... ie, if it's set for flourescent when you're
really under incandescent light, or set for sunlight when you're indoors...
check that and see if it helps.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/users/merlin/
----- Original Message -----
From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 11:19 PM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet
Howdy all from Texas.
Finally got a chance to work some more this weekend on the Piet. Also, added
a few pics to the link below to fill in the progress made in the past few months....
slow but sure.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID188
Im not sure why, but all the pics have a blue hue to them. Makes us look like
smurfs. Anysay, notice the spring gear re-build job done by my partner Lon
Carr back in October. We are now very happy with a straight and true gear. The
detail design of this gear is part Piet and part Hatz CB1.
Today, I finally swallowed hard and got out that mean old fly-cutter and bored
all the instrument holes in the rear panel. Had to do it on the ship since
it was already permanently glued and nailed in place by the previous builder.
Man that fly-cutter worked GREAT. Keys to a good job...
1) start with a sharp cutter tool.
2) keep a firm grip (used 14V Dewalt cordless drill)
3) keep a square alignment to the workpiece
4) don't cut slow...go ahead and cut fast enough to mell the smoke.
5) use a backing board (clamped) to prevent the farside last ply from tearing
away.
6) Be safe.
Use a removed front bezel from an old instrument as a drill guide for perfect
alignment.
Had a great weekend teaching my 9 yr-old stepson some sheet metal fabrication
techniques. We built some channel stiffeners to bridge between the rear instrument
and the front pit headrest. Also the ones forward of the front instrument
panel. Added #8 nut plates for anchoring the cockpit cowlings.
See also the attached pic. Those instruments really add some life. Since the
original panel has some old stains from nails we have purchased some sticky-back
wood veneer, which we will use to finish out the panel. Its getting closer...just
slow.
All the best.
Terry Bowden
ph (254) 715-4773
fax (254) 853-3805
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Seattle visit next week...... |
<40143FE4.5F105DFD@shaw.ca>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Nope, Boeng field in Seattle, just north of Sea-Tac.
I'm going to see if the 262 Project is open to visiters
on Saturday though.
Clif
Do not archive
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seattle visit next week......
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
> > If that is the one at Paine field, then don't miss the Me-262 hangar,
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet |
The blue hue only shows up in the pics I uploaded to the "mykitplanes.com"
site. They don't have that blue overtone when I view them on my picture viewer
here.
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet |
That was Hannah's ear. She and her twin sister (age 5) helped me all day
today and their brother Travis too. Its great having so much interest from the
kids. Travis literally put in about 7 hours yesterday and about 4 hours after
church today.
Travis can use the sheet metal shear, the brake, the center punch, the
marking dividers, the rivet cutter, the tin snips, and the air drill. Yesterday
he
helped me make 3 six inch channel supports (for behind the rear panel). So
today, I showed him that we needed 3 more just the same, except seven inches
long (behind the front panel). He had them sheared, centerpunched, marked, and
ready to drill before I could break loose from cutting panel holes and see his
progress.
Here's Travis and Hannah....and another pic of the the 7-inch channel
supports he made today. His papaw (my partner Lon) helped him finish them up
(install nutplates). But Travis did about 80% of the work.
Its all in the family...
Terry
Message 18
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Chuck...
Cool Pic. Are you using that rib to mark off your transcontinental Piet
course for next summer?
Terry
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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Subject: | Fuselage Table idea |
Most Piet builders build wood fuselages and don't have the tubing storage
problem like the Hatz guys do. But heres a great idea for a fuselage
construction table that my father-in-law (and Piet partner) designed for his Hatz
project. Built like a tressel table, it has handy storage underneath for long
tubing
(or anything else long - like wood longerons). He also made a sheet metal
tray for short stuff. The table is 16 feet long X 3 feet wide. It has a 5/8
inch plywood top. As you can see he's just getting started tacking the fuselage
together. He's having a ball. I may have lost my help on the Piet.
OK...ehough pics for one night.
Terry B. (in Texas - carried away with digital camera technology)
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