Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 01/25/04


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:08 AM - Re: Rib jig (Rcaprd@aol.com)
     2. 07:40 AM - Seattle visit next week...... (Jim Markle)
     3. 08:09 AM - Re: Seattle visit next week...... ()
     4. 11:06 AM - about a different type of flying (walt evans)
     5. 01:00 PM - Rib jig (Deon Engelmann)
     6. 01:33 PM - Re: Rib jig (Andimaxd@aol.com)
     7. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Tail Volume (PHILIP HUMPHREY)
     8. 02:18 PM - Re: Seattle visit next week...... (dave rowe)
     9. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Tail Volume (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    10. 06:03 PM - corvair conversion cost (Brants)
    11. 07:08 PM - Re: Rib jig (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    12. 07:28 PM - Re:New Pictures (Bert Conoly)
    13. 08:20 PM - More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    14. 09:07 PM - Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (Mike Whaley)
    15. 09:42 PM - Re: Seattle visit next week...... (Clif Dawson)
    16. 09:48 PM - Re: Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    17. 10:17 PM - Re: Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    18. 10:21 PM - Re: Rib jig (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    19. 10:48 PM - Fuselage Table idea (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:08:24 AM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Rib jig
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/24/04 1:25:14 PM Central Standard Time, engelmannd@icon.co.za writes: << Does anyone have an accurate cad drawing for a rib with 1" holes for the spars? I want to make a three piece wing with 1" routed spars >> Deon, If you just measure out the dimensions listed on the plans, then blend in the place on the top where there is a little dip, you'll be just fine to build the ribs to this shape. Chuck Gantzer Wichita KS NX770CG


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:40:58 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Seattle visit next week......
    Clif Dawson and I are going to the Boeing Museum (I know it's not called that but that's where it is and I don't remember the correct name and I'm too lazy right now to investigate) next Sunday, Feb 1. One of the Concords is there along with the rest of the really cool stuff they already have.....excellent aviation museum. So this is an inviation for anyone in the area so inclined.....to join us...... I arrive at SEATAC around 10:45 and will go directly to the museum to meet Clif...... Jim in Plano


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:09:47 AM PST US
    From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Seattle visit next week......
    Don't miss "The Red Barn". This is Boeing's original building. It has been restored and is attached to the main museum building. I was there last October and all of the really cool stuff is located there. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seattle visit next week...... Clif Dawson and I are going to the Boeing Museum (I know it's not called that but that's where it is and I don't remember the correct name and I'm too lazy right now to investigate) next Sunday, Feb 1. One of the Concords is there along with the rest of the really cool stuff they already have.....excellent aviation museum. So this is an inviation for anyone in the area so inclined.....to join us...... I arrive at SEATAC around 10:45 and will go directly to the museum to meet Clif...... Jim in Plano


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:06:44 AM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: about a different type of flying
    Don't know if anyone's seen this link. Cam on the mars rover that you can pan around and zoom. Need quicktime though. http://www.panoramas.dk/fullscreen3/f2_mars.html walt evans NX140DL


    Message 5


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    Time: 01:00:05 PM PST US
    From: "Deon Engelmann" <engelmannd@icon.co.za>
    Subject: Rib jig
    Hi Here are some pics of my rib jig. The paper will be removed and the rib redrawn on the jig when completed Please give comments and critique as needed. Thanx Deon Engelmann EAA322 Midrand # SA12055 Pretoria South Africa


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:33:18 PM PST US
    From: Andimaxd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Rib jig
    Deon: Make sure that, when you finish your jig, all of the ribs will be identical. On mine, the outside cannot move and everything is pinned up against it from the inside. This produces identical ribs. The cams are not bottomed out. The holes are offset and will turn farther if the wood happens to be a little narrower, or not as far if the strips are a little wider. Then secured with the wing-nuts. There will be some variance in the cap strips and some of them are more flexible than others. From the look of your jig right now, it looks like if some of the strips bend easier than others, the curves on the bottom and top of your ribs may change from rib to rib. But that's your call, this is what makes homebuilding so much fun. You have drawn in uprights on both sides of the spars. You don't really need this, you only need them on the inboard sides of your spars; you will put in compression X-bracing wires inside the wing which will force the spars together. If you feel you must put them (the uprights) in anyway, wait until you have glued the ribs to the spars or you will have a very difficult time sliding them on to the spars. If you put them on last you will have a much tighter fit/and less cursing !! I used wax paper and scotch tape to keep the glue off of the jig. If you could make the jig out of Plexiglas you wouldn't need anything as the glue would not stick. I could not find anything thick enough made out of plastic that was large enough and affordable. I have read where others have and said it worked quite well. Let me know if you have any other questions or don't understand my view point on something. You better get to bed boy, isn't it like 11:30 p.m. there? md PS Did you get those pics of my plane, what do you think?


    Message 7


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    Time: 02:07:57 PM PST US
    From: "PHILIP HUMPHREY" <phil.humphrey@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Tail Volume
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "PHILIP HUMPHREY" <phil.humphrey@btopenworld.com> Hi, There was a UK homebuilt with a 16% thick gottingen 535 wing section - heavily undercambered - it's CofG range was 25% - 35% and it needed a tailplane incidence of +3 degrees. Didn't go very fast! Phil Humphrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd@aol.com> >............. Does anyone have the C.G. range of the Ryan Navion, or any other plane that has an undercambered > airfoil ? > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG >


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:18:00 PM PST US
    From: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: Seattle visit next week......
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> If that is the one at Paine field, then don't miss the Me-262 hangar, they are building 5 exact flying replica ME-262s. It's a great tour. #1 has flown, but had a minor accident involving the landing gear, is probably ready to re-commence with testing. Dave Rowe > Jim Markle wrote: > > > Clif Dawson and I are going to the Boeing Museum (I know it's not > called that but that's where it is and I don't remember the correct > name and I'm too lazy right now to investigate) next Sunday, Feb 1. > One of the Concords is there along with the rest of the really cool > stuff they already have.....excellent aviation museum. > > So this is an inviation for anyone in the area so inclined.....to join > us...... > > I arrive at SEATAC around 10:45 and will go directly to the museum to > meet Clif...... > > Jim in Plano


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:16:11 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Tail Volume
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd@aol.com> >............. Does anyone have the C.G. range of the Ryan Navion, or any other plane that has an undercambered > airfoil ? > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG >> In a message dated 1/25/04 4:08:15 PM Central Standard Time, phil.humphrey@btopenworld.com writes: << Hi, There was a UK homebuilt with a 16% thick gottingen 535 wing section - heavily undercambered - it's CofG range was 25% - 35% and it needed a tailplane incidence of +3 degrees. Didn't go very fast! Phil Humphrey Thanks Phil !! That supports my suspicion as to the reason the Pietenpol has an aft C.G. limit so far back. Bernard Harold Pietenpol called out one third, or 33 1/3% = 20" behind the leading edge, for the aft C.G. limit on the Pietenpol Airfoil. Should someone Change the shape of the Airfoil, say flattening out the bottom of the ribs, and maintain the Pietenpol C.G. range, the aft range will be VERY DANGEROUS. This is another reason to build the ribs to the plans. The Pietenpol plans call out to build the horizontal stab with zero incidence (paralell to the longerons). The wing, however, has 2 of positive incidence, by making the forward cabane struts one inch longer than the aft ones. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:03:42 PM PST US
    From: "Brants" <tmbrant@usfamily.net>
    Subject: corvair conversion cost
    Anyone out there willing to share what money they have into their corvair conversion? Just trying to get a rough idea so I can channel my limetted building funds appropriately. Thanks, Tom Brant Brooklyn Park, MN


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:08:12 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Rib jig
    Deon, I'm going to try the picture thing. This is my first try with this new fangled digital camera, so let me know if it turns out. As Max pointed out, the outside perimiter of all the ribs must be identical. From the looks of your rib jig, it doesn't appear you have these supports installed yet. Make sure the capstrips contact these blocks, with some type of blocking from the opposite side. Max used a cam lobe, which is the method I used when I built the ribs for my Tailwind, and it works really well. It compensates for variations in the thickness (1/4") of the capstrips. The other dimension that you have to pay particular attention to, is the dimension between the spars. The plans call out 27 3/4" between the spars. If you cut a piece of scrap wood to the dimensions of the spars, (1" X 4 3/4") then install these blocks where the spars go. Make these blocks about 5/8" or 3/4" long, so they stick up higher than the capstrips, and you can install the gussets up against it, and maintain identical placements of the gussets. An actual piece of the spar itself would be even better, if you already have the spars, and you can afford to cut a couple of pieces off the end of the spar. Just make sure your spars are long enough, beforehand. I think the gussets you have marked out on your paper, between the spars, could be just a little bit longer. I made mine 1 3/4" X 1". I see you haven't yet drawn in the one on the top. A small problem I had when I was building my ribs, was that the 1/2" dimension varied in the capstrips, and some of the upright sticks wasn't quite flush with the top & bottom cap strips, where the gussets go. I made small sanding blocks, with sticky back 100 grit sand paper, and plane down the area where the gussets go, so it was flush. Be sure to remove all dust, before you glue the gussets on with T88 adhesive. You could use wax paper, or some type of package tape on the places you don't want the adhesive to stick. After the adhesive has thoroughly cured, and you carefully pop the rib out of the jig, flip it over to install the gussets on the other side. Rough up the area a little bit because it will be as smooth as the non stick surface, where the epoxy runs down. Install new pieces in the jig, so you can use the same batch of adhesive for both opporations. You'll eventually figure out how big a batch you need. Don't use wax coated cups to mix epoxy. When you have extra epoxy left over, make a destructive test piece, with scraps. I numbered (with a pencil, where there wasn't going to be any adhesive), and cut all the cap strip lengths, and gussets, after I built my second rib. It's a slow process to complete a ship set of ribs, but it is an enjoyable opporation. A rib a day. It's a good idea to build two extra ribs, one for destructive tests, and one to proudly hang on your wall !! This also gives you the opportunity to select the best ones for the wing. When you're all done with the ribs, you've earned the right to do the dance called the 'Rib Jig' !!! Chuck Gantzer Wichita KS NX770CG


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:28:07 PM PST US
    From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re:New Pictures
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> If anybody is interested, we started covering last weekend.... I posted a few new pictures to my website\ Bert http://bconoly.tripod.com/


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:20:29 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet
    Howdy all from Texas. Finally got a chance to work some more this weekend on the Piet. Also, added a few pics to the link below to fill in the progress made in the past few months.... slow but sure. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=188 Im not sure why, but all the pics have a blue hue to them. Makes us look like smurfs. Anysay, notice the spring gear re-build job done by my partner Lon Carr back in October. We are now very happy with a straight and true gear. The detail design of this gear is part Piet and part Hatz CB1. Today, I finally swallowed hard and got out that mean old fly-cutter and bored all the instrument holes in the rear panel. Had to do it on the ship since it was already permanently glued and nailed in place by the previous builder. Man that fly-cutter worked GREAT. Keys to a good job... 1) start with a sharp cutter tool. 2) keep a firm grip (used 14V Dewalt cordless drill) 3) keep a square alignment to the workpiece 4) don't cut slow...go ahead and cut fast enough to mell the smoke. 5) use a backing board (clamped) to prevent the farside last ply from tearing away. 6) Be safe. Use a removed front bezel from an old instrument as a drill guide for perfect alignment. Had a great weekend teaching my 9 yr-old stepson some sheet metal fabrication techniques. We built some channel stiffeners to bridge between the rear instrument and the front pit headrest. Also the ones forward of the front instrument panel. Added #8 nut plates for anchoring the cockpit cowlings. See also the attached pic. Those instruments really add some life. Since the original panel has some old stains from nails we have purchased some sticky-back wood veneer, which we will use to finish out the panel. Its getting closer...just slow. All the best. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:07:33 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet
    What's that instrument right above the tach... the audio engine failure detection device? hehehe BTW, blue/yellow hues in digital photos are usually caused by having your camera set for the wrong kind of lighting... ie, if it's set for flourescent when you're really under incandescent light, or set for sunlight when you're indoors... check that and see if it helps. -Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ http://www.ov-10bronco.net/users/merlin/ ----- Original Message ----- From: BARNSTMR@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet Howdy all from Texas. Finally got a chance to work some more this weekend on the Piet. Also, added a few pics to the link below to fill in the progress made in the past few months.... slow but sure. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID188 Im not sure why, but all the pics have a blue hue to them. Makes us look like smurfs. Anysay, notice the spring gear re-build job done by my partner Lon Carr back in October. We are now very happy with a straight and true gear. The detail design of this gear is part Piet and part Hatz CB1. Today, I finally swallowed hard and got out that mean old fly-cutter and bored all the instrument holes in the rear panel. Had to do it on the ship since it was already permanently glued and nailed in place by the previous builder. Man that fly-cutter worked GREAT. Keys to a good job... 1) start with a sharp cutter tool. 2) keep a firm grip (used 14V Dewalt cordless drill) 3) keep a square alignment to the workpiece 4) don't cut slow...go ahead and cut fast enough to mell the smoke. 5) use a backing board (clamped) to prevent the farside last ply from tearing away. 6) Be safe. Use a removed front bezel from an old instrument as a drill guide for perfect alignment. Had a great weekend teaching my 9 yr-old stepson some sheet metal fabrication techniques. We built some channel stiffeners to bridge between the rear instrument and the front pit headrest. Also the ones forward of the front instrument panel. Added #8 nut plates for anchoring the cockpit cowlings. See also the attached pic. Those instruments really add some life. Since the original panel has some old stains from nails we have purchased some sticky-back wood veneer, which we will use to finish out the panel. Its getting closer...just slow. All the best. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:42:59 PM PST US
    From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: Seattle visit next week......
    <40143FE4.5F105DFD@shaw.ca> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> Nope, Boeng field in Seattle, just north of Sea-Tac. I'm going to see if the 262 Project is open to visiters on Saturday though. Clif Do not archive Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seattle visit next week...... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> > > If that is the one at Paine field, then don't miss the Me-262 hangar,


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:48:59 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet
    The blue hue only shows up in the pics I uploaded to the "mykitplanes.com" site. They don't have that blue overtone when I view them on my picture viewer here.


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:17:24 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: More new pictures from 40-yr-old Piet
    That was Hannah's ear. She and her twin sister (age 5) helped me all day today and their brother Travis too. Its great having so much interest from the kids. Travis literally put in about 7 hours yesterday and about 4 hours after church today. Travis can use the sheet metal shear, the brake, the center punch, the marking dividers, the rivet cutter, the tin snips, and the air drill. Yesterday he helped me make 3 six inch channel supports (for behind the rear panel). So today, I showed him that we needed 3 more just the same, except seven inches long (behind the front panel). He had them sheared, centerpunched, marked, and ready to drill before I could break loose from cutting panel holes and see his progress. Here's Travis and Hannah....and another pic of the the 7-inch channel supports he made today. His papaw (my partner Lon) helped him finish them up (install nutplates). But Travis did about 80% of the work. Its all in the family... Terry


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:21:15 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Rib jig
    Chuck... Cool Pic. Are you using that rib to mark off your transcontinental Piet course for next summer? Terry DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 19


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    Time: 10:48:34 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Fuselage Table idea
    Most Piet builders build wood fuselages and don't have the tubing storage problem like the Hatz guys do. But heres a great idea for a fuselage construction table that my father-in-law (and Piet partner) designed for his Hatz project. Built like a tressel table, it has handy storage underneath for long tubing (or anything else long - like wood longerons). He also made a sheet metal tray for short stuff. The table is 16 feet long X 3 feet wide. It has a 5/8 inch plywood top. As you can see he's just getting started tacking the fuselage together. He's having a ball. I may have lost my help on the Piet. OK...ehough pics for one night. Terry B. (in Texas - carried away with digital camera technology)




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