---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/27/04: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:46 AM - Re: Rib jig 2 (Clif Dawson) 2. 06:05 AM - Re: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun (Andimaxd@aol.com) 3. 07:06 AM - Re: Front Seat Support (dpaul) 4. 07:13 AM - Re: Front Seat Support (Andimaxd@aol.com) 5. 07:21 AM - Material strengths (Isablcorky@aol.com) 6. 07:45 AM - Re: more airfoil talk (Robert Haines) 7. 07:45 AM - Re: Front Seat Support (DJ Vegh) 8. 08:20 AM - Re: Front Seat Support (dpaul) 9. 08:51 AM - Re: Rib jig (Gene Rambo) 10. 10:22 AM - package and postage (Deon Engelmann) 11. 10:40 AM - Re: package and postage (Ed Grentzer) 12. 10:51 AM - Re: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun (John Ford) 13. 11:01 AM - Re: more airfoil talk (Ken Chambers) 14. 12:01 PM - test (Gary Gower) 15. 01:36 PM - Re: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun (Michael D Cuy) 16. 04:17 PM - Re: corvair conversion cost (Gary Gower) 17. 04:45 PM - (no subject) (Andimaxd@aol.com) 18. 05:18 PM - Re: (no subject) (Mike King) 19. 05:43 PM - Re: (no subject) (dave rowe) 20. 05:51 PM - Re: (no subject) (Lynn & Doris Knoll) 21. 06:11 PM - Re: (no subject) (Christian Bobka) 22. 06:20 PM - Re: (no subject) (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 23. 06:26 PM - Re: (no subject) (Mike King) 24. 06:31 PM - Re: (no subject) (Andimaxd@aol.com) 25. 07:00 PM - Re: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun (Mike Whaley) 26. 08:17 PM - Re: (no subject) (Rcaprd@aol.com) 27. 08:44 PM - Re: Seattle visit next week...... (dave rowe) 28. 08:47 PM - Re: Material strengths (Rcaprd@aol.com) 29. 08:53 PM - Re: Material strengths (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 30. 08:58 PM - Re: Material strengths (Isablcorky@aol.com) 31. 09:13 PM - annual Piet Low-n-slow flyin at Benton KS (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 32. 09:23 PM - Front seat-back support question (Rick Holland) 33. 10:06 PM - Re: Front Seat Support (Clif Dawson) 34. 10:27 PM - Re: (no subject) (Clif Dawson) 35. 11:21 PM - Re: Front Seat Support (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:44 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib jig 2 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson Great minds think alike( I won't mention the other half of this old saw, Chuck! ) I made two 1/2" ply blocks 1" X 1 3/4" and screwed them into the spar locations. This way all the ribs will fit the spars. Glue was dabbed on the ends of all cross braces to take up any gaps in that area. Remember, it's the gussets that hold everything together. I made up a fancy clamping system and never used it. Weights were used instead. Where Chuck has used sockets I used lead fishing weights, the triangular, pyrimid ones. You don't want to squeeze epoxies like T-88. They depend on a film of glue in there, unlike the white or marine glues that you may be used to. Leave the nose cap strip ends a few inches long as Chuck says and put an outside block at the end. This way the strip will take a better curve more easily past the nose. Wherever there is an end to a bent piece of wood, the first few inches will be in a straighter line and harder to force outwards to properly fit crossbracing. You are planning on steaming or soaking the top strips and bending them over a form to dry aren't you? I prefer steaming myself as the heat softens the lignin allowing the wood cells to slide over each other.. A steamer is easy to make from an electric kettle and metal vacuum cleaner tubes, all from second hand places for next to nothing. A good sharp chisel, flat side up, can be slid under the strips to lift the finished rib past the blocking. Go around the rib prying a little at a time until it pops free. Clif You saw it here. Zen and the art of rib making. :-) > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > Deon, > Your rib jig is lookin' good !! Triple check the dimensions between the > spars, and make sure they are parallel to each other, before you install the > spar blocks. Triple check all the dimensions up from the datum line, and all > along the outside dimension lines, while you have your first capstrip in the > jig, and adjust accordingly. Sometimes ya just gotta split the difference. > On my Pietenpol rib jig, when installing the gussets, I used weight to > hold them till cured, after the epoxy was spread. Instead of using stables or > nails, I used every 1/2" socket I had, as well as anything that weighed about > 10 ounces, on top of each gusset. That was quit a bit of weight on the table, ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:13 AM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun Hey Mike: Good luck on that ride...I went to Broadhead last year and still have never had an opportunity to ride in one of these great little ships. Although I must admit it was extremely windy for most of the event. I will get to ride in one eventually though, as my Dad and I are optimistic about having ours flying by this summer. I would still like to ride in one before I mount ours, but I'm not going to attend Sun and Fun until I can fly my own Piet there. I will give you a ride next year though, if you are still interested and the Good Lord is willing !! Right now I am limited to getting the tail leveled off, with a tall bucket of course, and making aeroplane noises while flying over the shop floor. It looks a lot like the Texas Panhandle under the right lighting conditions, if you squint just a little. Ninety percent done, and about ninety percent left. Like Chuck Gantzer says,"Building a Piet is slow, but the sky is patient." Or something like that, sorry Chuck. Max Davis Arlington, Texas USA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:36 AM PST US From: "dpaul" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support -----Original Message----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support Thanks Greg and Chris. I guess I will just stick with the plans and learn to fit my knees under those braces one way or another. I'm just 6'2" but pretty long in the legs. Chris, like you, I made the seat as low as possible. It does help a lot. I like your idea about laminating in some curved pieces. That's the way the fuse stations in the Flybaby are built up. Something to think about anyway. Dave Dave ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:36 AM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support Dave, I'm only 5'10" and had difficulty getting my legs through those holes. You can cut as high up on that V brace as you want. We cut up an extra couple of inches and it made a lot more of a difference than I thought possible. Have you already done this? Max Arlington, TX ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:08 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Material strengths Pieters, Ran across a couple pieces of streamline tubing left over from front struts of 41CC. 2 1/2X7/8X.049. Have some smaller pieces also. What my question is, Could I sub this streamline tubing for the round in the fabing of the split gear? Would it be strong enough for some of Nathan Moss's landings ( I question his depth perception sometimes) Corky in cold La ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:06 AM PST US From: "Robert Haines" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: more airfoil talk --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Haines" If you need information about the 2412 or the 4412 airfoil, download report number 824 from the NACA server (Google "NACA Server", should be the first choice). It's a pretty big file so start the download and go get a sandwich and some coffee. By general notation, a positive pitching moment is one that rotates the leading edge up. As a reference point, the 25% cord point is used as the point of rotation. You will notice on the airfoil sectional graphs, the moments are given as negitive and therefore are rotating the wing section leading edge down. This does not necessarily rotate the aircraft nose down, this simply means that the center of lift is aft of the 25% cord point. Rotating the aircraft nose down has to do with the relationship of the center of lift to the CG of the aircraft. On conventional aircraft (wings in front, tail in back pushing down to keep the nose up) the CG is located ahead of the center of lift (for stability purposes) and therefore the center of lift will rotate the nose down. On a carnard aircraft or a conventional aircraft that is loaded incorrectly, the CG will be behind the center of lift and the opposite will be true. Also noted from those wing sectional graphs, they range from -6 degrees AOA or less to 18 degrees or greater. A wing on an aircraft won't see those extremes in normal flight, so for design purposes, you need to use something like 1 to 2 degrees in straight and level cruise to 14 degrees at the stall point to develop tail volume requirements. Also note that the center of lift does move along the wing at different AOAs. Generally speaking, the center of lift is at the center to rear of the wing during straight and level and approaches the 25% cord point at stall. Determining where it is at stall (28% cord? 30% cord?) determines the aft CG limit. Although I am just another engineer puking information (that's what we do) and as interesting experimenting with the design would be, it must be noted that this design AS IS has proved itself to be a wonderful combination and it has a flying personality all its own (I must admit that this is take from the opinions of others having not yet experienced it myself). If one wants something that flys like a Cessna... rent a Cessna. But then again, it is an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft. Sorry for the long winded lesson. Robert Haines Du Quoin, Illinois ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:06 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support I had the same problem.... it was fixed by moving the rear seat back 2.5". Due to W&B issues I had to compensate for that by moving the firewall forward 1.5". This allowed my legs a shallower angle so thay could get through those cross braces with room to spare. Now when I sit in the plane I have TONS of room. Keep in mind I have a GN-1 should work for a Piet though. BTW I'm 6'4" 190lb. DJ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: dpaul Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support -----Original Message----- From: Catdesign To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support Thanks Greg and Chris. I guess I will just stick with the plans and learn to fit my knees under those braces one way or another. I'm just 6'2" but pretty long in the legs. Chris, like you, I made the seat as low as possible. It does help a lot. I like your idea about laminating in some curved pieces. That's the way the fuse stations in the Flybaby are built up. Something to think about anyway. Dave Dave = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:34 AM PST US From: "dpaul" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support Thanks Max. No, I haven't. Looks like I'll be ripping out my front seat and reconstructing it your way. Knee pads may be part of my future flight apparel. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support Dave, I'm only 5'10" and had difficulty getting my legs through those holes. You can cut as high up on that V brace as you want. We cut up an extra couple of inches and it made a lot more of a difference than I thought possible. Have you already done this? Max Arlington, TX ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:24 AM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib jig --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene Rambo" You guys have GOT to get real about attaching photos to these e-mails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once again, it took over an hour to download this email, and my computer timed out twice! PLEASE THINK before you attach so many photos, not all of us have DSL lines. While I am complaining, I am sure that Matt will join me in asking that replys be kept meaningful, or be directed to the original sender only. I get between 50 and 100 e-mails a day from this list, and the vast majority of them are only "attaboys" or "way cool". OK, off the box now. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deon Engelmann" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rib jig > Hi > > I looked, I listened and hopefully I learned. > > I took your advice in supporting the outside of the cap strips and > rebuild the jig. Here are some updated pics. > > Comments? > > Deon Engelmann > EAA322 Midrand # SA12055 > Pretoria > South Africa > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:30 AM PST US From: "Deon Engelmann" Subject: Pietenpol-List: package and postage Hi Got some cap strip from wicks today. $86 for the cap strip, $165 for package and postage to SA Deon Engelmann EAA322 Midrand # SA12055 Pretoria South Africa ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:15 AM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: package and postage --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Wow...That is going to be one expensive Pietenpol....You must have some local light weight wood that you can substitute for spruce. I would hate to see the shipping cost on the longerons and struts not to mention the spars. do not archive Ed G. >From: "Deon Engelmann" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: package and postage >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:22:09 +0200 > >Hi > >Got some cap strip from wicks today. >$86 for the cap strip, $165 for package and postage to SA > >Deon Engelmann >EAA322 Midrand # SA12055 >Pretoria >South Africa Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:27 AM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" I am still a not-building-one-yet person. Last summer at Brodhead I spent most of the weekend shyly admiring airplanes and not speaking to builders because surely they had more important/interesting people to talk to. I narrowly managed to hitch Saturday's last ride of the day in someone's lovely orange Model A powered Piet. I am convinced that you'd be successful actively engaging these kind folk very early on and establishing relationships with them and their lovely airplanes, and probably get rides offered to you. I intend to not be nearly so shy this year (we'll see) and actually speak to some of the owners and cultivate some relationships. Maybe I can get someone to take my lovely wife up for a spin (poor choice of words?), since I will need her full support to build one.. The point I guess I'm trying to make is that like you, I really want to become a member of this Pietenpol family and to do that I think the key is to be involved with its members. And of course you'll be giving rides in your Piet when it's finished as well, too? ;-) I bet gladly... John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> Andimaxd@aol.com Tuesday, January 27, 2004 9:04:33 AM >>> Hey Mike: Good luck on that ride...I went to Broadhead last year and still have never had an opportunity to ride in one of these great little ships. Although I must admit it was extremely windy for most of the event. I will get to ride in one eventually though, as my Dad and I are optimistic about having ours flying by this summer. I would still like to ride in one before I mount ours, but I'm not going to attend Sun and Fun until I can fly my own Piet there. I will give you a ride next year though, if you are still interested and the Good Lord is willing !! Right now I am limited to getting the tail leveled off, with a tall bucket of course, and making aeroplane noises while flying over the shop floor. It looks a lot like the Texas Panhandle under the right lighting conditions, if you squint just a little. Ninety percent done, and about ninety percent left. Like Chuck Gantzer says,"Building a Piet is slow, but the sky is patient." Or something like that, sorry Chuck. Max Davis Arlington, Texas USA ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: more airfoil talk From: "Ken Chambers" Chuck I think I read it on this list that Mr. Pietenpol named it that because it took 10 minutes to draw with a French Curve. Ken ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:24 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Pietenpol-List: test --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower test Do not archive __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:30 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy John-- I won't be at Sun-N-Fun but hopefully you'll be able to get a ride. I know Ted Brousseau has been very active in giving rides in his plane based out of the Naples, Florida area and I think he goes to SNF most years. Don't ever hesitate to ask questions of Piet builders at Brodhead or elsewhere----it's like asking Grandma if she has any grandchildren photos--we LOVE to talk about these planes. I think that anyone who is willing to build a plane like this from six sheets of plans from the 1930's that leave some things to the imagination needs all the amo he can get wether it be from this list, Tony Bingelis' book series on Sportplane construction and firewall forward, to in-person photos, notes, measurements, rides, and talk at fly-in's. Every little bit helps. I took notes, video and still photos for 3 years at Brodhead before I started my project. Took the best of what I liked in various Piets and started work. I'd have gladly given some rides at Brodhead but that incessant wind kept us all on the ground til nearly sunset so there wasn't much time unfortunately. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:13 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair conversion cost Also push botton starter motorcycles :-) Saludos Gary Gower Enfield 350 Bullet Do not archive. --- Andimaxd@aol.com wrote: > Tom: > > I have it on good authority that starters are for sissy's !! > > Max > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:14 PM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Hello all: I need a source for odd bolts, preferrably in or near the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. I will order though if anyone has a good source... I need a -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/4" shank & -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/8" shank We had an over sight making the controls and one of each of the two size bolts will fix it. They do not have to be aircraft grade bolts, although grade 8 or grade 5 would be nice. Have already checked Ace Hardware and a couple of car dealerships -- any suggestions? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:41 PM PST US From: "Mike King" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) There is a source of aircraft nuts and bolts located just off Harry Hines south of Regal Row. If this sounds good, then I will research the proper name, phone number, etc.. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Hello all: I need a source for odd bolts, preferrably in or near the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. I will order though if anyone has a good source... I need a -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/4" shank & -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/8" shank We had an over sight making the controls and one of each of the two size bolts will fix it. They do not have to be aircraft grade bolts, although grade 8 or grade 5 would be nice. Have already checked Ace Hardware and a couple of car dealerships -- any suggestions? --- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:01 PM PST US From: dave rowe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe Let me know if you can't find anything, being in Canada, I may have more luck, Dave Rowe, Victoria, BC Andimaxd@aol.com wrote: > > Hello all: > > I need a source for odd bolts, preferrably in or near the Dallas/Ft. > Worth metroplex. I will order though if anyone has a good source... > > I need a -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/4" shank & > -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/8" > shank > > We had an over sight making the controls and one of each of the two > size bolts will fix it. They do not have to be aircraft grade bolts, > although grade 8 or grade 5 would be nice. > > Have already checked Ace Hardware and a couple of car dealerships -- > any suggestions? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:50 PM PST US From: "Lynn & Doris Knoll" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Try McMaster-Carr Supply Co. at www.mcmaster.com Lynn Knoll Wichita Vair/Piet in the works ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) There is a source of aircraft nuts and bolts located just off Harry Hines south of Regal Row. If this sounds good, then I will research the proper name, phone number, etc=85.. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andimaxd@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:45 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Hello all: I need a source for odd bolts, preferrably in or near the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. I will order though if anyone has a good source... I need a -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/4" shank & -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/8" shank We had an over sight making the controls and one of each of the two size bolts will fix it. They do not have to be aircraft grade bolts, although grade 8 or grade 5 would be nice. Have already checked Ace Hardware and a couple of car dealerships -- any suggestions? ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:41 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Mike King It is Aircraft Supply Company, 7204 Parwelk, Dallas, Texas 75235 214 637 3598. They have everything. I mean everything. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) There is a source of aircraft nuts and bolts located just off Harry Hines south of Regal Row. If this sounds good, then I will research the proper name, phone number, etc=85.. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andimaxd@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:45 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Hello all: I need a source for odd bolts, preferrably in or near the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. I will order though if anyone has a good source... I need a -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/4" shank & -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/8" shank We had an over sight making the controls and one of each of the two size bolts will fix it. They do not have to be aircraft grade bolts, although grade 8 or grade 5 would be nice. Have already checked Ace Hardware and a couple of car dealerships -- any suggestions? ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:22 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Max... Try B&B Aircraft Supplies P.O. Box 37 202 South Center Gardner KS 66030 (913) 884-5930 ph (913) 884-6533 They aren't close, but are the most reasonable I have found for aircraft hardware and excellent service. If you can wait until the Alliance Fly-in/Air Show...or the SWRFI in New Braunfels....they will have a booth there. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:41 PM PST US From: "Mike King" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Chris, You are so right. I bought a bunch of parts from them for my GN-1. It is only five minutes from my Dallas office and they are the best folks to deal with. VERY reasonable. Thanks for supplying the info Chris. I had their name and number at my Addison office and could not post it earlier. Give em a call guys. Mike King GN-1 Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bobka Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Mike King It is Aircraft Supply Company, 7204 Parwelk, Dallas, Texas 75235 214 637 3598. They have everything. I mean everything. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) There is a source of aircraft nuts and bolts located just off Harry Hines south of Regal Row. If this sounds good, then I will research the proper name, phone number, etc.. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Hello all: I need a source for odd bolts, preferrably in or near the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. I will order though if anyone has a good source... I need a -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/4" shank & -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/8" shank We had an over sight making the controls and one of each of the two size bolts will fix it. They do not have to be aircraft grade bolts, although grade 8 or grade 5 would be nice. Have already checked Ace Hardware and a couple of car dealerships -- any suggestions? --- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:06 PM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) In a message dated 1/27/2004 8:12:07 PM Central Standard Time, bobka@compuserve.com writes: > Mike King > > It is Aircraft Supply Company, 7204 Parwelk, Dallas, Texas 75235 214 637 > 3598. They have everything. I mean everything. > > Chris Bobka > Thanks everyone for helping, Mike I will call Aircraft Supply Co. tomorrow first thing; Max Arlington, TX. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:32 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seeking Piet ride at Sun N Fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" > Don't ever hesitate to ask questions of Piet builders at Brodhead > or elsewhere----it's like asking Grandma if she has any grandchildren > photos--we LOVE to talk about these planes. > Mike C. I've never been bashful about asking folks about their planes... anyone who builds any kind of airplane (even models)usually is quite proud to show it off and they really do appreciate others taking an interest in their bird. Everyone was at the "just asking questions" stage at some point, I think the majority of folks like to help others move through that stage into the building phase. A big part of why I like the Piet is this community itself. I managed to break free from the tent and went to a Piet forum at SNF last year, then hung out at the woodworking forum for a while, and talked to a gentleman with a Piet (it was made to look a bit like a Curtiss Jenny.) Then I caught up with William and saw the Corvair run, which really cemented things for me. I'm not rich and don't ever expect to be, which lead me to start thinking of the Piet in the first place. But now that I know more about it, the main attraction isn't so much the low cost of the Piet anymore, it's the great network of down-to-earth folks that build and fly them... you all seem to do so because it's just plain fun, not to be a snob with the best plane that money can buy. Someday I'm sure I'll be giving as many rides as possible - in fact, I already have plans to "borrow" my nephew for a few Pietenpol adventures of our own... he's 3 now and really loves "lello-lopters" and "jet air-panes"! Max, great quote about the patient sky... hope to see you at SNF soon with your Piet! -Mike ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:53 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/04 6:45:44 PM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd@aol.com writes: << I need a -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/4" shank & -- 7mm bolt with a 1 1/8" shank We had an over sight making the controls and one of each of the two size bolts will fix it. They do not have to be aircraft grade bolts, although grade 8 or grade 5 would be nice. >> Max, You're givin' me the Hiebie Jiebie's !! All the hardware should be aircraft grade. The main difference is that aircraft grade bolts have rolled threads, and if it is painted with a translucent color, it has been through NDI (Non Destructive Test). What are these bolts for ? Max, I'm still trying to come up with a way to e-mail you the method I use to tie the ends of the bunji chords, too. Gene R. made a good point about pictures & stuff. You guys with high speed DSL go zipping along like a LanceAir. Us folks with dial up go putt putt putting along like a Pietenpol in a 30 kt headwind. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:22 PM PST US From: dave rowe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seattle visit next week...... <40143FE4.5F105DFD@shaw.ca> <002b01c3e3cf$120fb2e0$96715118@dawsonaviation> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe Think they are just a mon-fri op, I think the Boeing factory tour is Paine field, in Everett, is ther a museum there as well or just Seattle? Trying to arrange a little tour via a couple of Sea Kings for next Friday. Clif Dawson wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > Nope, Boeng field in Seattle, just north of Sea-Tac. > I'm going to see if the 262 Project is open to visiters > on Saturday though. > Clif > > Do not archive > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seattle visit next week...... > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe > > > If that is the one at Paine field, then don't miss the Me-262 hangar, > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:55 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Material strengths --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/04 9:21:55 AM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky@aol.com writes: << Ran across a couple pieces of streamline tubing left over from front struts of 41CC. 2 1/2X7/8X.049. Have some smaller pieces also. What my question is, Could I sub this streamline tubing for the round in the fabing of the split gear? Would it be strong enough for some of Nathan Moss's landings ( I question his depth perception sometimes) >> Corky, The plans call for 1 3/8" 14ga. (.074") 1020 steel tube for the Vee gear struts. As tempting as it may be to use the 2 1/2" X7/8" X.049", I just don't think it would be adequate for a gross weigh, drop it in type landing. Chuck G. 4 F outside, calm winds - Hearty individuals like Shawn Wolk and Graham Hansen, call this 'Pietenpol Weather' !!! ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:18 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Material strengths In a message dated 1/27/2004 10:48:21 PM Central Standard Time, Rcaprd@aol.com writes: > Chuck G. > 4=BA F outside, calm winds - Hearty individuals like Shawn Wolk and Graham > Hansen, call this 'Pietenpol Weather' !!! Chuck, Its good weather to be inside making Pietenparts. Terry Bowden (making some rudder cable extensions getting ready to move the non-plans rudder pedals 6 inches forward for more legroom) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:20 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Material strengths Thanks Chuck, I have the plans tubing on hand and will use it accordingly. Would like to hear of your/our Post Brodhead tour and what plans you may have finalized. Corky in La trying to keep his feet warm ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:53 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: annual Piet Low-n-slow flyin at Benton KS Chuck, Whats the date for the 2004 Benton KS Piet flyin? If I push, I might be able to make it in the Piet by late summer. Terry Bowden (need a tangible date goal to keep me going) ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:19 PM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front seat-back support question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Please tell me if I am missing anything here. Just finishing my Piet cockpit mockup and have realized that the top of the 1/8" ply front seat back is only supported by a 1 x 1/2" horizontal strip which doesn't contact the top longerons since the metal cabane mount brackets go against the longerons just behind the seat back. The 1/8" ply stiffener is glued across the top to the top of the seat back and the 1 x 1/2 piece. This is all thats needed to support the top of the front seatback correct? Rick H ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:21 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support <006801c3e4eb$cfb4b580$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com> I've just been fiddling with some sketches. It seems to me that you don't need those center sticks V'd. They don't add stiffness to the panel or fuselage in the cross-fuse direction. The ply panel does that quite nicely. The prime function of those braces is to keep the ply from bowing backwards under the weight of the front seater's back. You can run them vertically up the sides of the cutouts and they will do exactly the same job. Just leave some depth to the ply at the top above the cutouts for gusseting effect. Gusset the back side of those sticks at the top for some added strength just in case you get some rowdy front seater someday. ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support I had the same problem.... it was fixed by moving the rear seat back 2.5". Due to W&B issues I had to compensate for that by moving the firewall forward 1.5". This allowed my legs a shallower angle so thay could get through those cross braces with room to spare. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:33 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson Maybe they need to be sent with lower DPI, like 150 or even 75. Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com> Gene R. made a good point about pictures & stuff. You guys with high speed > DSL go zipping along like a LanceAir. Us folks with dial up go putt putt > putting along like a Pietenpol in a 30 kt headwind. > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:26 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support <006801c3e4eb$cfb4b580$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com> <008e01c3e563$00945530$96715118@dawsonaviation> Re Rick's message. I forgot about the interference with the strut attachment at the top. What about placing a crosspiece below the level of the strut fittings and running a 2 or 3" wide gusset across from side to side to strengthen the joints? Clif Brainfart ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Seat Support I've just been fiddling with some sketches. It seems to me that you don't need those center sticks V'd. They don't add stiffness to the panel or fuselage in the cross-fuse direction. The ply panel does that quite nicely. The prime function of those braces is to keep the ply from bowing backwards under the weight of the front seater's back. You can run them vertically up the sides of the cutouts and they will do exactly the same job. Just leave some depth to the ply at the top above the cutouts for gusseting effect. Gusset the back side of those sticks at the top for some added strength just in case you get some rowdy front seater someday.